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Every Hadith Has A Counter-hadith?

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This really is more of a question than an allegation, but I suspect that it might become heated so I've posted it here rather than in Questions About Islam.

 

Yes, I'm totally uneducated in Islamic Sciences, but it does seem that every time someone attempts to prove a point by quoting hadiths, someone else produces hadiths which prove the opposite point.

 

It seems to me that you could support many contrary positions, all perfectly 'legal', using hadiths.

 

Am I wrong to think this?

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PropellerAds

Hello,

The Sciences of Hadith , are a topic in itself, and It is very very deep. Most Muslims in the forum including me have just a rudimentary understanding of it .

Yes, It may seem contradictory to you, but that is due to not understanding the nature of the topic in the first place.

Its something like interpreting the constitution not every one has to do it, nor is every one qualified to do it . It requires specialization in the field.

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Good answer - but 1. why does nearly everyone use hadiths to support arguments (why aren't they quoting experts' interpretations of hadiths?) 2. there doesn't seem to be any more consensus among experts.

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Good answer - but 1. why does nearly everyone use hadiths to support arguments (why aren't they quoting experts' interpretations of hadiths?)

That's what they are supposed to be doing . Its mostly due to the fact that most of the 'expert' works are still in arabic and have not been translated and that many hadith books have been translated.

 

2. there doesn't seem to be any more consensus among experts.

on what exactly ?

There are concensus on thousands and thousands of topics especially in the fundamentals of the religion like Monotheism, Prayer, Fasting , Piligramage, Charity which are known as the "Pillars of Islam" .

There are many topics which may be considered secondary on which difference of opinion are considered scholarly differences and its ok to follow any opinion in general.

I could answer you better if I know what exactly are you referring to

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Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to quote actual hadiths, so that might make it awkward, but here goes:

 

The old favourite - is it permissable to play musical instruments other than the duff? Proponents of the yes and no sides produce copious hadiths saying contradictory things.

 

A contemporary issue - the extremist Sheikhs quote hadiths (or whatever) quote hadiths supporting suicide bombing, moderates quote hadiths saying that it's forbidden.

 

If there WAS an ultimate set of laws to be found in the Koran, wouldn't it be known and agreed-on by now?

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The old favourite - is it permissable to play musical instruments other than the duff? Proponents of the yes and no sides produce copious hadiths saying contradictory things.

Like I said these are from the secondary issues.

There were very very few classical scholars who held the opinion that it was permissible , this both sides accept.

 

A contemporary issue - the extremist Sheikhs quote hadiths (or whatever) quote hadiths supporting suicide bombing, moderates quote hadiths saying that it's forbidden.

 

There are two issues here - one that of suicide bumbing and other ( implicit) that of killing non-combatants.

 

If you are to study classical books you will see that the second is permissible only in the case where the non-combatants are used as shields and the like and in general it is forbidden.

 

The second is a modern issue since bombs were not present in the past, and hence scholars attempt to do ijtihad to arrive at the solution and some scholars consider it permissible and other's don't.

 

But majority of the Muslim scholars today will agree that bombing a school bus or a market place has absolutely nothing to with Jihad .

It come down to what one wants to follow or do - the truth or what i like best

 

If there WAS an ultimate set of laws to be found in the Koran, wouldn't it be known and agreed-on by now?

People are given free will to follow their desires or to follow the truth.

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But majority of the Muslim scholars today will agree that bombing a school bus or a market place has absolutely nothing to with Jihad .

It come down to what one wants to follow or do - the truth or what i like best

People are given free will to follow their desires or to follow the truth.

 

But how did you decide that it is "the truth"? Because a majority of scholars say it?

 

(And, to be a bit mischievous, I am certain that a hadith could be found warning the Ummah to trust not in the majority for verily they be as a flock of sheep.)

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(And, to be a bit mischievous, I am certain that a hadith could be found warning the Ummah to trust not in the majority for verily they be as a flock of sheep.)

 

There might be such a Hadith out there. But it would be very easy to see it for the fabrication that it is, because most likely it would fail most if not all criteria of a trustworthy Hadith.

 

Legitimacy depends on three main factors.

1) Matn (content of the Hadith)

2) Isnad (chain of narration).

3) Taraf (the part, or the beginning sentence, of the text which refers to the sayings, actions or characteristics of the Prophet(P), or his concurrence with others action)

 

 

Mustalah (classification) books speak of a number of classes of hadith in accordance with their status. The following broad classifications can be made, each of which is explained in the later sections:

 

* According to the reference to a particular authority, e.g. the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), a Companion, or a Successor; such ahadith are called Marfu` (elevated), Mauquf (stopped) and Maqtu` (severed) respectively .

 

* According to the links in the isnad, i.e. whether the chain of reporters is interrupted or uninterrupted, e.g. Musnad (supported), Muttasil (continuous), Munqati (broken), Mu`allaq (hanging), Mu`dal (perplexing) and Mursal (hurried).

 

* According to the number of reporters involved in each stage of the isnad, e.g. Mutawatir (consecutive) and ahad (isolated), the latter being divided into Gharib (scarce, strange), `Aziz (rare, strong), and Mash'hur (famous).

 

* According to the manner in which the hadith has been reported, such as using the (Arabic) words 'an ("on the authority of"), haddathana ("he narrated to us"), akhbarana ("he informed us") or sami'tu ("I heard"). In this category falls the discussion about Mudallas (concealed) and Musalsal (uniformly-linked) ahadith. [Note: In the quotation of isnads in the remainder of this book, the first mode of narration mentioned above will be represented with a single broken line thus: ---. The three remaining modes of narration mentioned above, which all strongly indicate a clear, direct transmission of the hadith, are represented by a double line thus: ===.]

 

* According to the nature of the matn and isnad, e.g. an addition by a reliable reporter, known as ziyadatu thiqah, or opposition by a lesser authority to a more reliable one, known as Shadhdh (irregular). In some cases, a text containing a vulgar expression, unreasonable remark or obviously-erroneous statement is rejected by the traditionists outright without consideration of the isnad: such a hadith is known as Munkar (denounced). If an expression or statement is proved to be an addition by a reporter to the text, it is declared as Mudraj (interpolated).

 

* According to a hidden defect found in the isnad or text of a hadith. Although this could be included in some of the previous categories, a hadith Mu`allal (defective hadith) is worthy to be explained separately. The defect can be caused in many ways; e.g. two types of hadith Mu`allal are known as Maqlub (overturned) and Mudtarib (shaky).

 

* According to the reliability and memory of the reporters; the final judgment on a hadith depends crucially on this factor: verdicts such as Sahih (sound), Hasan (good), Da`if (weak) and Maudu` (fabricated, forged) rest mainly upon the nature of the reporters in the isnad.

 

To go more deeply into it:

 

Mustalah al-Hadith is strongly associated with Rijal al-Hadith (the study of the reporters of hadith). In scrutinising the reporters of a hadith, authenticating or disparaging remarks made by recognised experts, from amongst the Successors and those after them, were found to be of great help. Examples of such remarks, in descending order of authentication, are:

 

* "Imam (leader), Hafiz (preserver)."

 

* "Reliable, trustworthy."

 

* "Makes mistakes."

 

* "Weak."

 

* "Abandoned (by the traditionists)."

 

* "Liar, used to fabricate ahadith."5

 

Reporters who have been unanimously described by statements such as the first two may contribute to a Sahih ("sound", see later) isnad. An isnad containing a reporter who is described by the last two statements is likely to be Da`if jiddan (very weak) or Maudu` (fabricated). Reporters who are the subject of statements such as the middle two above will cause the isnad to be Da`if (weak), although several of them relating the same hadith independently will often increase the rank of the hadith to the level of Hasan (good). If the remarks about a particular reporter conflict, a careful verdict has to be arrived at after in-depth analysis of e.g., the reason given for any disparagement, the weight of each type of criticism, the relative strictness or leniency of each critic, etc.

 

The earliest remarks cited in the books of Rijal go back to a host of Successors, followed by those after them until the period of the six canonical traditionists, a period covering the first three centuries of Islam. A list of such names is provided by the author in his thesis, Criticism Of Hadith Among Muslims With Reference To Sunan Ibn Majah, at the end of chapters IV, V and VI.

 

Among the earliest available works in this field are Ta'rikh of Ibn Ma`in (d. 233), Tabaqat of Khalifa b. Khayyat (d. 240), Ta'rikh of al-Bukhari (d. 256), Kitab al-Jarh wa 'l-Ta'dil of Ibn Abi Hatim (d. 327) and Tabaqat of Muhammad b. Sa'd (d. 320).

 

A number of traditionists made efforts specifically for the gathering of information about the reporters of the five famous collections of hadith, those of al-Bukhari (d. 256), Muslim (d. 261), Abu Dawud (d. 275), al-Tirmidhi (d. 279) and al-Nasa'i (d. 303), giving authenticating and disparaging remarks in detail. The first major such work to include also the reporters of Ibn Majah (d. 273) is the ten-volume collection of al-Hafiz `Abd al-Ghani al-Maqdisi (d. 600), known as Al-Kamal fi Asma' al-Rijal. Later, Jamal al-Din Abu 'l-Hajjaj Yusuf b. `Abd al-Rahman al-Mizzi (d. 742) prepared an edited and abridged version of this work, punctuated by places and countries of origin of the reporters; he named it Tahdhib al-Kamal fi Asma' al-Rijal and produced it in twelve volumes. Further, one of al-Mizzi's gifted pupils, Shams al-Din Abu `Abdullah Muhammad b. Ahmad b. `Uthman b. Qa'imaz al-Dhahabi (d. 748), summarised his Shaikh's work and produced two abridgements: a longer one called Tahdhib al-Tahdhib and a shorter one called Al-Kashif fi Asma' Rijal al-Kutub al-Sittah.

 

A similar effort with the work of al-Mizzi was made by Ibn Hajar (d. 852), who prepared a lengthy but abridged version, with about one-third of the original omitted, entitled Tahdhib al-Tahdhib in twelve shorter volumes. Later, he abridged this further to a relatively-humble two- volume work called Taqrib al-Tahdhib.

 

The work of al-Dhahabi was not left unedited; al-Khazraji (Safi al-Din Ahmad b. `Abdullah, d. after 923) summarised it and also made valuable additions, producing his Khulasah.

 

A number of similar works deal with either trustworthy reporters only, e.g. Kitab al-Thiqat by al-`Ijli (d. 261) and Tadhkirah al-Huffaz by al-Dhahabi, or with disparaged authorities only, e.g. Kitab al-Du`afa' wa al-Matrukin by al-Nasa'i and Kitab al-Majruhin by Muhammad b. Hibban al-Busti (d. 354).

 

Two more works in this field which include a large number of reporters, both authenticated and disparaged, are Mizan al-I'tidal of al-Dhahabi and Lisan al-Mizan of Ibn Hajar.

 

Types of Hadiths:

The following principal types of hadith are important:

 

* Marfu` - "elevated": A narration from the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), e.g. a reporter (whether a Companion, Successor or other) says, "The Messenger of Allah said ..." For example, the very first hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari is as follows: Al-Bukhari === Al-Humaidi `Abdullah b. al-Zubair === Sufyan === Yahya b. Sa`id al-Ansari === Muhammad b. Ibrahim al-Taymi === 'Alqamah b. Waqqas al-Laithi, who said: I heard `Umar b. al-Khattab saying, while on the pulpit, "I heard Allah's Messenger (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) saying: The reward of deeds depends on the intentions, and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended; so whoever emigrated for wordly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he migrated."

 

* Mauquf - "stopped": A narration from a Companion only, i.e. his own statement; e.g. al-Bukhari reports in his Sahih, in Kitab al-Fara'id (Book of the Laws of Inheritance), that Abu Bakr, Ibn `Abbas and Ibn al-Zubair said, "The grandfather is (treated like) a father." It should be noted that certain expressions used by a Companion generally render a hadith to be considered as being effectively Marfu` although it is Mauquf on the face of it, e.g. the following:

 

"We were commanded to ..."

 

"We were forbidden from ..."

 

"We used to do ..."

 

"We used to say/do ... while the Messenger of Allah was amongst us."

 

"We did not use to mind such-and-such..."

 

"It used to be said ..."

 

"It is from the Sunnah to ..."

 

"It was revealed in the following circumstances: ...", speaking about a verse of the Qur'an.

 

*Muqtu - severed - Narration from a Successor, e.g. Muslim reports in the Introduction to his Sahih that Ibn Sirin (d. 110) said, "This knowledge (i.e. Hadith) is the Religion, so be careful from whom you take your religion."

 

Musnad

Al-Hakim defines a Musnad ("supported") hadith as follows: "A hadith which a traditionist reports from his shaikh from whom he is known to have heard (ahadith) at a time of life suitable for learning, and similarly in turn for each shaikh, until the isnad reaches a well- known Companion, who in turn reports from the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace)."8

 

Mutassil

By this definition, an ordinary hadith (i.e. one with an uninterrupted isnad) is excluded if it goes back only to a Companion or Successor, as is a Marfu` hadith which has an interrupted isnad.

 

Mudallas

A Mudallas "concealed" hadith is one which is weak due to the uncertainty caused by tadlis. Tadlis (concealing) refers to an isnad where a reporter has concealed the identity of his shaikh.

 

Musalsal

A uniformly-linked isnad is one in which all the reporters, as well as the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), use the same mode of transmission such as 'an, haddathana, etc., repeat any other additional statement or remark, or act in a particular manner while narrating the hadith.

 

Shadhdh

According to al-Shafi`i, a Shadhdh ("irregular") hadith is one which is reported by a trustworthy person but goes against the narration of a person more reliable than him. It does not include a hadith which is unique in its contents and is not narrated by someone else. In the light of this definition, the well-known hadith, "Actions are (judged) according to their intentions", is not considered Shadhdh since it has been narrated by Yahya b. Sa`id al-Ansari from Muhammad b. Ibrahim al-Taimi from 'Alqamah from `Umar, all of whom are trustworthy authorities, although each one of them is the only reporter at that stage

 

Munkar

In contrast to a Munkar hadith, if a reliable reporter is found to add something which is not narrated by other authentic sources, the addition is accepted as long as it does not contradict them; and is known as ziyadatu thiqah (an addition by one trustworthy).50 An example is the hadith of al-Bukhari and Muslim on the authority of Ibn Mas`ud: "I asked the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), 'Which action is the most virtuous?' He said, 'The Prayer at its due time'." Two reporters, Al-Hasan b. Makdam and Bindar, reported it with the addition, "... at the beginning of its time"; both Al-Hakim and Ibn Hibban declared this addition to be Sahih.

 

Mudraj

An addition by the reporter to the test. For example, al-Khatib relates via Abu Qattan and Shababah --- Shu`bah --- Muhammad b. Ziyad --- Abu Hurairah --- The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), who said,

 

"Perform the ablution fully; woe to the heels from the Fire!"

 

Al-Khatib then remarks,

 

"The statement, 'Perform the ablution fully' is made by Abu Hurairah, while the statement afterwards, 'Woe to the heels from the Fire!', is that of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). The distinction between the two is understood from the narration of al-Bukhari, who transmits the same hadith and quotes Abu Hurairah as saying, "Complete the ablution, for Abu 'l-Qasim (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: Woe to the heels from the Fire!".

 

Mudtarib

According to Ibn Kathir, if reporters disagree about a particular shaikh, or about some other points in the isnad or the text, in such a way that none of the opinions can be preferred over the others, and thus there is uncertainty about the isnad or text, such a hadith is called Mudtarib

 

Maqlub

A hadith is known as Maqlub (changed, reversed) when its isnad is grafted to a different text or vice versa, or if a reporter happens to reverse the order of a sentence in the text.

 

Ma`lul or Mu`allal

Ibn al-Salah says, "A Ma`lul (defective) hadith is one which appears to be sound, but thorough research reveals a disparaging factor." Such factors can be:

 

1. declaring a hadith Musnad when it is in fact Mursal, or Marfu` when it is in fact Mauquf;

 

2. showing a reporter to narrate from his shaikh when in fact he did not meet the latter; or attributing a hadith to one Companion when it in fact comes through another.

 

Maudu`

Al-Dhahabi defines Maudu` (fabricated, forged) as the term applied to a hadith, the text of which goes against the established norms of the Prophet's sayings (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), or its reporters include a liar, e.g. the forty ahadith known as Wad'aniyyah or the small collection of ahadith which was fabricated and claimed to have been reported by `Ali al-Rida, the eighth Imam of the Ithna 'Ashari Shi'ah.

 

All Hadiths come down to 3 categories: Sahih (sound), Hasan (good), and Da'if (weak).

 

Sahih

A Sahih hadith is the one which has a continuous isnad, made up of reporters of trustworthy memory from similar authorities, and which is found to be free from any irregularities (i.e. in the text) or defects (i.e. in the isnad)

 

Hasan

A hadith which is not Shadhdh, nor contains a disparaged reporter in its isnad, and which is reported through more than one route of narration.

 

Da`if

A hadith which fails to reach the status of Hasan is Da`if. Usually, the weakness is one of discontinuity in the isnad, in which case the hadith could be Mursal, Mu`allaq, Mudallas, Munqati` or Mu`dal, according to the precise nature of the discontinuity, or one of a reporter having a disparaged character, such as due to his telling lies, excessive mistakes, opposition to the narration of more reliable sources, involvement in innovation, or ambiguity surrounding his person.

 

It's a lot more complicated than this, and requires years upon years of study. For more details, you can check (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Hadith/Ulum/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Hadith/Ulum/[/url]

 

Salam.

Edited by Redeem

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I was actually postulating a genuine hadith about the dangers of following the herd - I bet (say $1?) there is one.

 

And my question stands - given that there are disputes between scholars, how can you say that there is a single truth to be found?

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I was actually postulating a genuine hadith about the dangers of following the herd - I bet (say $1?) there is one.

 

The dangers of following what "herd"? The dangers of following the prophet, his companions, and the rightly guided scholars? You would be wrong.

 

And my question stands - given that there are disputes between scholars, how can you say that there is a single truth to be found?

 

Outsiders usually assume that the recognized scholars of the past and present have always been feuding over the Qur'an and the Hadiths. That would be false. Just as there is a system of determining the origins of Hadiths and their authenticity, there are systems for determining the interpretations of Hadiths, which are generally agreed upon by the scholars. Those who deviate from the norm are easy to distinguish from the rest of the scholars, as they usually base their opinions and rulings on Hadiths that are either weak, lack support through the actions of the companions, and contradict the more reliable teachings of prophet Muhammad (and the Qur'an).

 

The Hadiths are very complex and require extensive knowledge and effort. The average Muslim can easily be misled. That is why learning about Islam is a requirement upon every Muslim, and not simply following what your fathers follow.

 

Salam.

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I understand that, but it still doesn't answer my question. Are you saying that what the majority of schloars say is "truth"? And if it is, why can't there be a codification of laws? Why isn't there one already?

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Why isn't there one already?

 

Why do you assume there isn't? Especially after explaining in my quote the systematic method of classifying Hadiths?

 

Edit: I should add that if you show interest in learning about the sciences of the Hadiths, you should buy books written on the matter. Attending classes would be recommended also, but most people can't afford to do so.

 

Salam.

Edited by Redeem

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I assume there isn't because 1. if i ask about specific laws in a Caliphate I'm always told "that depends" and 2. if there was, why aren't arguments solved by pointing to the codified law rather than endless quotations of conflicting hadiths? If the law was codified we could say with certaintly whether or not Muslims were allowed to pay the piano. We currently can't, so I deduce that there is no codification.

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I assume there isn't because 1. if i ask about specific laws in a Caliphate I'm always told "that depends"

 

Who do you ask? The scholars? Or the students of Islam who frequent this forum?

 

and2 . if there was, why aren't arguments solved by pointing to the codified law rather than endless quotations of conflicting hadiths?

 

1) Lack of information on either side. To point out Qur'an verses and Hadiths is one thing. To have access to unlimited information compiled by the scholars is an entirely different thing.

2) Disagreement in opinions of scholars, regardless of who is more reputable. Those who wish to disagree will do so, even if the odds are stacked against them.

 

We currently can't, so I deduce that there is no codification.

 

Considering I showed you the systematic classifications of Hadiths (if you looked at the site itself, you would even see several diagrams illustrating the methodology, and tons of references to codified books on the Hadiths), I'm surprised you're still insisting there is no codification.

 

Salam.

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hey redeem its no use fallow is a drug abuser, homosexual lover, and fights for athiest and get this fallow says shes a christian hahahahaha....lol you minds well give up we cant handle fallows supreme way of life. so that makes her a homodrugathiest certainly not a christian!!

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By 'codification' I mean a set of agreed-upon laws, which can be referred to for a definitive judgement.

 

If there are codified laws, why on earth does the Ummah disagree over so many things? Surely Muslims would PREFER to obey the laws of Allah, and if they were in fact codified it would be simple to do so. Why do some argue that piano-playing is permissable when all it should take if for someone to point out the agree-upon law against it? This doesn't happen. Both sides swap hadiths and rulings from opposing scholars and Sunnipath and no definitive position is ever reached.

 

 

Twoswords, please read my sig. I'm a cultural christian and an agnostic.

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By 'codification' I mean a set of agreed-upon laws, which can be referred to for a definitive judgement.

 

So you weren't speaking of the codification of the Hadiths (the laws of systematically classifying them), but a general codification of Islam?

 

The same applies. If you're interested in such matters, I can list a few books for you to try.

 

Surely Muslims would PREFER to obey the laws of Allah, and if they were in fact codified it would be simple to do so.

 

Of course they would. But it isn't as simple as you are implying. I could name a list of reasons, but that really wouldn't accomplish anything.

 

Salam.

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So you weren't speaking of the codification of the Hadiths (the laws of systematically classifying them), but a general codification of Islam?

 

Of the laws, yes. Sorry for the confusion. But thanks for your post about the types of hadith and so on., It's interesting stuff. I'll try the link you gave befoire I try books, but I'll keep it in mind.

 

Of course they would. But it isn't as simple as you are implying. I could name a list of reasons, but that really wouldn't accomplish anything.

 

 

Thanks. Please understand that what follows is NOT intended to insult Muslims or Islam.

 

I fully understand that extracting the truth the Koran and hadiths is complicated, and so complicated that the task of unravelling it is not yet completed and may never be. (I wouldn't regard it as completed until someone can point to law #3333654 and say that that law permits the playing of the piano by Muslims.)

 

I also fully understand that just because it is complicated doesn't mean it is false or anything of the sort. We humans have to do the best we can with the realities of the universe.

 

I also fully understand that the Ummah is extremely diverse, with many different cultures and standards of education and so on, and that internal disputes are inevitable.

 

BUT with all this, I don't understand why Muslims are often inflexible and easily upset. Surely people operating in such a complex system where getting a definitive answer is often impossible, where allowances have to be made for other cultures and so on, should be supreme praticioners of negotiation and compromise. Yet the opposite seems to be the case: shooting oneself in the foot as a matter of principle seems to be regarded as a virtue.

 

AND I don't understand how the legal system of a Caliphate works, if courts have to not only decide if someone is guilty, but if what they did was a crime in the first place.

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I think your question is a complex one, and would require an answer beyond what I would be able to give. If this were a discussion about the general aspects of Islam (what faith is, prayer, the prophet Muhammad's history, etc), it would be more simple, but the political aspect of Shari'ah (Islamic law) is something that I, as a simple Muslim, have never studied.

 

I hope that I was at least somewhat helpful, and I pray that you will find the answers you seek.

 

Salam.

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ISLAMic law is gorverned by the QURAN. The QURAN is a living Book, there is some things in the QURAN that is definitive and some that is to be taken as allegorical. The QURAN applies to all times,you cant use all laws from 1400 years ago today. The QURANs laws can be applied to todays time.The Word kalifa means successer,not one man to rule over everybody. The kalifate is a government succeding the old gorvernment, as far as laws is concerened the QUARN deals with every situation in every time. George Bush is the kalifa of Bill CLINTON,

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as far as laws is concerened the QUARN deals with every situation in every time.

 

Possibly, but you can't actually tell me whether playing the piano is legal or illegal for Muslims, can you? You can only tell me what a majority of scholars think. So, in the Caliphate, will they take a vote among scholars and the majority verdict becomes the law? Or what?

 

PS - thanks Redeem.

Edited by fallow

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Possibly, but you can't actually tell me whether playing the piano is legal or illegal for Muslims, can you? You can only tell me what a majority of scholars think. So, in the Caliphate, will they take a vote among scholars and the majority verdict becomes the law? Or what?

 

WRONG

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WRONG in Islam there is no priesthood, we as muslims must study our arabic and read the QUARN for ourselves, The scholars are just people who are not lazy and they study the QUARN. likewise if you were to study the QUARN then when you read it you will have an understanding. Whats the matter with playing the piano????? Idont get this statement. No we dont rely heavely on scholars but those who are lazy and dont study do.

 

Yes scholars have opinions, can they be wrong YES, Hey im pretty sure you went to school, your teachers were like your scholars you took their opinions and if it was applicable to you, you used it. But we are governed by the QURAN it says in it that the QUARN is the best of hadith so this is what we follow.

 

and if a scholar has an opinion and its in cord with the QUARN then hey why not listen to good advice. But it depends on your mind set some scholars have a very extreem way of looking at things, and if your mind is like this you will gravitate towards that scholar.

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Whats the matter with playing the piano????? Idont get this statement. No we dont rely heavely on scholars but those who are lazy and dont study do.

 

Are you sure you're a Muslim? As someone earlier in this thread pointed out, most scholar believe that playing musical instruments (except the duff) is forbidden for Musilms. And aren't unqualified Muslims specifically warned against trying to interpret the Koran and hadiths themselves?

 

Yes scholars have opinions, can they be wrong YES, Hey im pretty sure you went to school, your teachers were like your scholars you took their opinions and if it was applicable to you, you used it. But we are governed by the QURAN it says in it that the QUARN is the best of hadith so this is what we follow.

 

So my point is, if hadiths appear to conflict and if scholars can be wrong, how does anyone know what is forbidden or permitted in Islam? More specifically, how will a caliphate make laws?

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