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LegalEagle

Christian Killing

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Salaam

They wondered if their actions, even though justifiable under a new set of rules of engagement that understandably viewed all Iraqis as "potential hostiles," could ever be forgiven by even the forgiving Christian God many had once been taught to worship. Some were troubled enough to approach Navy chaplains with questions about sin and forgiveness. They were reassured that the killing was not a sin if the killers didn't enjoy the killing.

 

"I'm not saying I care (about the killing)," Wright quotes one confused young Marine as saying, as he attempted to reason with his conscience: "I don't ... but I keep thinking about what the priest said. It's not a sin to kill with a purpose as long as you don't enjoy it. My question is: Is indifference the same as enjoyment?"

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.madison(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/tct/books/index.php?ntid=42184&ntpid=0"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.madison(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/tct/books/index.php...d=42184&ntpid=0[/url]

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PropellerAds

:D

 

It's not hard to see what kind of generation this is going to bring to America.

Youngsters who are taught to kill women and children, and feel ok about it.

What do you anticipate for America's future?

The neo-cons are leading a nation to its finale.

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Just as tragic as the mounting list of American casualties, of course, is the continuing "collateral damage" that consists of Iraqi women, children and other civilian innocents caught between both indiscriminate attacks of insurgents who apparently seek a civil war and aggressive counterinsurgency measures.

 

 

It appears that both sides will suffer.

 

Not to play the blame game, but if the insurgents wore uniforms, an international law, then I believe there would be far less inocent people dying.

 

However, as noted above, the civilians are most likely caught up in the middle between two sides, both whom are guilty of "collateral" damage. No war is without this, unfortunately.

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:D

 

It's not hard to see what kind of generation this is going to bring to America.

Youngsters who are taught to kill women and children, and feel ok about it.

What do you anticipate for America's future?

The neo-cons are leading a nation to its finale.

 

Have you ever been to America? Kill women and children and feel okay? Havnt heard that in a while...

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:D

 

Have you ever been to America? Kill women and children and feel okay? Havnt heard that in a while...

 

ermm, try switching on the news. where u been all this time, you know how much civillians been killed by Americans?

 

Not to play the blame game, but if the insurgents wore uniforms, an international law, then I believe there would be far less inocent people dying.

 

yurt, you do dknow this is an illegal war right?

 

thats why these prisonors have not been granted POW status...

 

why should they where uniforms?

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Havnt heard that in a while...

like how long is that while?

perhaps if you click the link that the topic starter gave, you'll hear better.

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It appears that both sides will suffer. 

 

Not to play the blame game, but if the insurgents wore uniforms, an international law, then I believe there would be far less inocent people dying. 

 

However, as noted above, the civilians are most likely caught up in the middle between two sides, both whom are guilty of "collateral" damage.  No war is without this, unfortunately.

I wonder if you'd say the same Yurt, if one day you woke up to find your bed surrounded with a dozen of foreign army personells about to blow your brain out.

Its unbelievable how 'indifferent' one can show, when you're in a safe side.

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I know I have never been in that situation.

 

Of course, I've never been in the situation of being afraid of being killed by a suicide bomber if I go to the market by people who want to "help". I've also never been threatened with violence if I voted.

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like how long is that while?

perhaps if you click the link that the topic starter gave, you'll hear better.

 

How long? In the 1800's when Native American women and children were killed.

 

Mate my family has been here for 8 generations. Your from Egypt right? Have you ever been here at all? Or even flown near it?

 

I would like to make it very clear to you that those are United States Marines. They are trained to kill, among other things. That is what they are in buisiness for. To say that American Youth are being told that killing women and children is okay is greatly overstepping reality. We are not definatly Sparta. What they are talking about is trying to get marines over killing them indiscriminately while attempting to kill insurgents who are firing on them. "But the death of unarmed, non-combatant, civilian innocents is another matter".

 

"They were reassured that the killing was not a sin if the killers didn't enjoy the killing." This is referring to killing enemy forces, not going around murdering kids for the heck of it on the road.

 

"...bolstered by Judeo-Christian religious precepts that have long justified killing as moral when done in a righteous cause..." Again, referring to enemy forces on the battlefield or enguagement area.

 

"Marines, of course, are crack combat troops - some say the finest fighting force in the world - and Recon Marines are an elite within an elite."

Also I do not know how credible this article is, or how much the writer knows, or if he is just exaggerating as some Marines do. Pretty much all non-Marines will tell you that the Marines are not elite as they claim to be, they are merely advanced infantry. They receive about the same amount of training as US Army Airbourne and the Airbourne isnt considered elite. The Marines are just sort of full of themselves, most will argue with you when someone says that the Marines are a branch of the Navy, and some will never agree to it, though they are.

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:D

 

why should they where uniforms?

 

Because innocent people may be killed if they are in the wrong situation because the US cant identify who is the enemy. Even the NVA had the guts to wear uniforms, though granted they are a regular army. Even thugs have some sort of identification sign on them to tell who is who in a gang war. What they are doing is just using women and children as sheilds, plain as that. Thats one of their weapons. USA kills a kid accedentally when returning fire and suddenly the world thinks we are murdering christian crusaders out too kill the world. Actually, its very effective. Sickning yes, but effective.

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"They were reassured that the killing was not a sin if the killers didn't enjoy the killing." This is referring to killing enemy forces, not going around murdering kids for the heck of it on the road.

 

 

 

:D

 

I'm sorry where did you get from what I quoted to your saying that

 

This is referring to killing enemy forces, not going around murdering kids for the heck of it on the road.

 

Read the source please and to quote you the paragraph in full

 

      But the death of unarmed, non-combatant, civilian innocents is another matter, and Wright perceived that some of the young, still-hardening Marine warriors agonized over their own roles in some of those deaths. They wondered if their actions, even though justifiable under a new set of rules of engagement that understandably viewed all Iraqis as "potential hostiles," could ever be forgiven by even the forgiving Christian God many had once been taught to worship. Some were troubled enough to approach Navy chaplains with questions about sin and forgiveness. They were reassured that the killing was not a sin if the killers didn't enjoy the killing.

 

Note from the above...they are worried about

the death of unarmed, non-combatant, civilian innocents

 

although Bush evangelical crusaders have advised them that killing the

innocent is

  justifiable under a new set of rules of engagement that understandably viewed all Iraqis as "potential hostiles,"

 

basically the whole of Iraq's population men, women and kids can be viewed

as anti-Iraqi :D

 

Please don't insert your own comments into quotes taken from other

sources. It's called putting your words into somebody elses mouth

Edited by LegalEagle

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:D

 

yoaz, You dont even Quote all the sentence.

 

even i can do that... what are you trying to prove if you are going to twist someones words?

 

would like to make it very clear to you that those are United States Marines. They are trained to kill, among other things. That is what they are in buisiness for.

 

Let me guess, the Army is like a Buiness??

 

I think Anyone will disagree with that

 

you make it sound as if they joined to kill. then that jsut proves they dont care if they kill any civllians

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How long? In the 1800's when Native American women and children were killed.

Mate my family has been here for 8 generations.

Interesting. Your family wouldn't happen to be the ones who killed them then, would they?

Even if you're not a direct descendant of the child killers, you inherited their killing culture. Its clear in your views:

USA kills a kid accedentally when returning fire and suddenly the world thinks we are murdering christian crusaders out too kill the world. Actually, its very effective. Sickning yes, but effective.

 

You're then a living example of what I'm trying to prove. A generation being brain washed into a deadly culture, that will end up taking your nation to its fall. You carry the seed of self-destruction.

 

Your from Egypt right? Have you ever been here at all? Or even flown near it?

why do you keep asking me that question?

Its you who need to visit a country such as Egypt, where you can learn a thing or 2, like the fact that great civilizations do not build themselves on dead bodies of natives, and that a great warrior is one who fights bravely to defend his land, not one who invades and occupy, then cowardly hides behind big guns, killing everything that moves:

United States Marines. They are trained to kill,

 

Effective yes, but for moments, days or months, or even years. You can not grow or even keep a civilization on such low principles.

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:D

 

yoaz, You dont even Quote all the sentence.

 

even i can do that... what are you trying to prove if you are going to twist someones words?

Let me guess, the Army is like a Buiness??

 

I think Anyone will disagree with that

 

you make it sound as if they joined to kill. then that jsut proves they dont care if they kill any civllians

 

They joined to fight for and defend their country.

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dot, in my opinion u condem the american millitary for a few isolated accidents that happened over a 2 year period, but the fact is there are atleast 3x as much iraqi civilians killed from the insurgent suicide car bombs, i would even say more iraqi civilians are murdered from the insurgent car bombs than u.s soldiers

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Salaam

 

Bombings of civilians etc is extensively reported (rightly so) but American military actions (atrocities or otherwise) I find are not extensively reported (there are some exceptions (eg. Abu Gharib, execution of Iraqi fighter in Fallujah). Just a random example I downloaded a video of a child being shot from an American watchtower. (From Al Jazeera).

 

Attacks launched on the occupying powers are not entirely random, I’m sure if you trawl on the net you can find pictures/videos of direct attacks on American military targets (IED devices etc etc).

 

I think much of the violence that’s going on is due to lawlessness (gangsters, criminal organisations)

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/041102_Iraqi_Civilian_Deaths_1TM"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/041102_...an_Deaths_1.HTM[/url]

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.zmag(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=40&ItemID=5552"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.zmag(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/content/showarticle.cf...=40&ItemID=5552[/url]

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.dissidentvoice(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/April2004/Rahkonen0415.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.dissidentvoice(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/April2004/Rahkonen0415.htm[/url]

 

On the General situation in Iraq

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/041019_Iraqi_Child_Deaths.HTM"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/041019_...hild_Deaths.HTM[/url]

 

On Fallujah

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/040419_Crushing_Falluja.HTM"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/040419_...ing_Falluja.HTM[/url]

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/041126_Fallujah_Response_BBC.H"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/04/041126_...esponse_BBC.HTM[/url]

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/05/050517_bbc_silent_on_fallujah.p"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/05/050517_...on_fallujah.php[/url]

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/05/050524_bbc_still_ignoring_evidce.php"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.medialens(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/alerts/05/050524_...ng_evidence.php[/url]

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dot, in my opinion u condem the american millitary for a few isolated accidents that happened over a 2 year period,

 

The US army has a bloody history for a bit more, 40x as much years at least.

 

but the fact is there are atleast 3x as much  iraqi civilians killed from the insurgent suicide car bombs

thats true, and unfortunate. But its all the US to blame. Here is the formula:

    * deprive a country from its resources, using evil and twisted powers to force sanctions, into deadly hunger, killing over at least a million malnutritioned, ill and contaminated Iraqi population
     
    * keep the above going for 12 years, during which you bomb Iraq thousands of times, with uranium-depleted weapons, just as a safety precaution: if hunger didnt kill them, this will do (causing cancer to generations at least 400 years to come) (kindly click my signature)
     
    * invade and strike the country when its in its weakest state
    * make sure everyone is kept in total poverty, under occupation, to the degree that some depressed Iraqis enroll to serve in an army designed and run by the occupying forces
     
    * make sure everything leads to zero stability, with the help of the israelis, killing every one of the elite Iraqis in universities, academics and researchers, to make sure the country never gets on its feet again.
     
    * watch as Iraqis kill each other, while the US and israel help themselves with Iraqi oil and cash.

It may seem hard for you to grasp yoaz, but the fact is that the world now considers your US army as a bunch of criminals in uniform, looting the world and commiting crimes against humanity.

The funny thing is, everyone is letting you loose, and you gave yourself amensty against all kind of war crime trials. How trashy!

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:D

ot, in my opinion u condem the american millitary for a few isolated accidents that happened over a 2 year period, but the fact is there are atleast 3x as much iraqi civilians killed from the insurgent suicide car bombs, i would even say more iraqi civilians are murdered from the insurgent car bombs than u.s soldier

 

not sure what u mean..

 

did you forget the 100,000+ killed by USA? or is that just a statistic that was too long ago?

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i would even say more iraqi civilians are murdered from the insurgent car bombs than u.s soldiers

 

Your saying cannot change the truth.

 

Truth is that AMERICA attacked a country without any true reason, and killed thousands of people so far and it is bacause of american crime that people of iraq are suffering so far.

American army is involved in the crimes against humanity.

Killing 100s of talibans in air packed containers

killing prisoners in bagram air base jail.

torturing prisoners in abugharib jail and showing REAL FACE of american youth.

 

Well, most of your soldiers need lessons from taliban about " How to treat prisoners "

as one of the british prisoner of taliban accept Islam because of the good treatment of her by Taliban .

 

It is really easy to understand who is more civilised.

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:D

not sure what u mean..

 

did you forget the 100,000+ killed by USA? or is that just a statistic that was too long ago?

 

Nah my friend came on here and wrote that post without me knowing. Right then well I know a great deal of soldiers and most dont want to be over there and dont give a crap about the middle east, they just want to defend their country and return home. You guys make it seam like American soldiers want to be there and are actually having a jolly good time but the plain truth is they dont really care about the middle east (they dont have any attachment to it) , they just want to do their job, and get the Iraqi government set up so they can come home where they belong.

 

"* watch as Iraqis kill each other, while the US and israel help themselves with Iraqi oil and cash." Quoted from dot

 

 

Dot, dude...israel and US have a friendship but its not like we are mates. The US and Britan are mates; israel is just a "friendly" country to us. Many Americans think israel is just some Middle Eastern country, I was reading an aricle a few months back and a Canadian man didnt even know they had cars in israel. We arnt brothers like US and Britan (supposedly France) but more distant cousins. Well maybe a little bit more than that but its not like we go around planning who to wack next. We dont have a batting order. Im pretty positive that a US soldier has never stepped on israeli soil for combat reasons (besides the soldiers guarding the embassy and the people with the arms shipments in Yom Kippur of course).

 

"* keep the above going for 12 years, during which you bomb Iraq thousands of times, with uranium-depleted weapons, just as a safety precaution: if hunger didnt kill them, this will do (causing cancer to generations at least 400 years to come) (kindly click my signature)" Quoted from dot

 

Er since when did we bomb Iraq for 12 years strait? Maybe thats not what you meant but if im not mistaken we werent the only ones in Gulf War I. I have never really got an intrest in the uranium depleted weapons thing, and as I do not know for certain the details I will not post my opinion but I will look into the matter.

 

"* invade and strike the country when its in its weakest state" quoted from dot

 

Weak? If they were weak why didnt they just let the UN inspectors come in instead of picking a fight. As they had no weapons, what harm would it due. Its not the logical decision.

 

"* make sure everyone is kept in total poverty, under occupation, to the degree that some depressed Iraqis enroll to serve in an army designed and run by the occupying forces" Quoted from dot

 

"* make sure everything leads to zero stability, with the help of the israelis, killing every one of the elite Iraqis in universities, academics and researchers, to make sure the country never gets on its feet again." Quoted from dot

 

Dot, make sure you dont step in the bull crap.

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Dot, make sure you dont step in the bull crap.

 

:D

 

Try clicking on the link on his signature first.

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killing prisoners in bagram air base jail.

torturing prisoners in abugharib jail and showing REAL FACE of american youth.

 

Well, most of your soldiers need lessons from taliban about " How to treat prisoners "

 

 

Once again they are not American Citizens. American Soldiers are a different matter. Do not confuse the two. And honestly I truly believe that those soldiers wree ordered to do what they did, of course they should of not of complied with the order, though. Privates do not have the authority to remove men from their cells and put them in obscene positions and take pictures. I dont know if it went so far as torture but certainly the US Army needs a new commander so they can get sorted out. They mess up on some fine points. Wish we had patton...

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:D

 

Try clicking on the link on his signature first.

 

Look at the quotes I responded to when I said that. I was not responding to the bit about Uranium-depleted weapons, If you look I wrote something different for that.

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:D

 

mind your language Yoaz,

 

hey just want to defend their country and return home.

 

Yoaz, You are lost, USA are not defending any threat... The world knows that because USA themselves have officially ended the search for WMD's.

 

nd honestly I truly believe that those soldiers wree ordered to do what they did

 

whether they should have followed or not, action should be taken against USA.

 

Wish we had patton...

 

yeah, your army needs discipline

Edited by crystal_sword

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Dot, make sure you dont step in the bull crap.

Is that all you got to say?

Obviously I wasted my time. My advise is to do your home work first, and not discuss something you don't know, it will save you the embarrassment :D

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