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Yasnov

My Holocaust Problems - A Primer For Beginners

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The holocauset is accepted fact around the world.

If it is a fact, rather than wasting time, why don't you just give me the facts for mass extermination and gas chambers?

 

Bssides my main point was that no where it states that God will deprive the newer generations of miracles.

That's not a point. The so-called Holocaust myths are mostly unfounded. If you don't agree with me, then let's not waste time, just address my post about the mass graves if you dare.

 

...ALL witnessed and recorded what actually happened , the veracity of these things remains unquestioned...there is simply too much evidence , too many witnesses , too many documents , too many films , for any rational person to deny these events occured in precisely the way history ,the witnesses , the survivors , the film and document records has narrated them .

If you are done with these rants, let's get to the main topic ... what do you have to say about the most talked about gas chambers?

 

So where does Eisenhower fit in ? As Yasnov so likes to bring up ? [ and contort ] .

He is a sideline to the discussion. But it is interesting to note that while some racists trying to remember some Jews who died during war time at that time, they easily ignore that five times as many civilians died in the single day of the Dresden holocaust & the merciless retribution of the 'Eisenhower camps' in the years after it ended than all jews died in all the German administered camps in the entire war. Racists can't see this, all they care is any wrong-doing is justified by wrong-doing.

 

Eisenhower was repulsed by what the Germans did in the death camps , he was repulsed by the German people who claimed they did not know , as the woke up every day with the odor of burning human flesh in their nostrils.

Nope, Eisenhower didn't only hate Germans, in his home country he was also very much a racist. Throughout his presidency, he chose to continue a legacy of racism and injustice towards the Blacks. So, I have no idea why you people put him in such a high pedestal.

 

Eisenhower allowed those citizens to feel the same pangs of hunger that was put upon their victims

Pangs of hunger ... oh what a phrase ... you are busted ..

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Nope, Eisenhower didn't only hate Germans, in his home country he was also very much a racist. Throughout his presidency, he chose to continue a legacy of racism and injustice towards the Blacks. So, I have no idea why you people put him in such a high pedestal.

 

We are talking about the same man who went as far as to send the National Guard to Little Rock to restrain racist hatred, right?

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Yasnov says :

 

 

"if it is a fact " ? ....lolololololol IT IS A FACT YASNOV . Today you have been educated properly .

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We are talking about the same man who went as far as to send the National Guard to Little Rock to restrain racist hatred, right?

So, that's the officially accepted version of the Little Rock events to you: Eisenhower sending the National Guard to Little Rocks. And that's all.

1. Troops being sent is not because of the moral policy of Eisenhower, but because of the victory of civil rights struggle which was won only through mass action which mobilized millions in opposition. If you see the whole picture, Eisenhower’s behavior during the Little Rock crisis reflected his extreme reluctance.

2. Firstly he did nothing. He ignored appeals for consultation from the NAACP, but in fact had a private session with Faubus at his vacation home in Newport, Rhode Island.

3. When he finally deployed troops, he made no attempt to hide his real motives for the action. He spoke about “respect for law,†but not social and political equality. He said it is to defend the interests of American capitalism:

 

“At a time when we face grave situations abroad because of the hatred that communism bears toward a system of government based on human rights, it would be difficult to exaggerate the harm that is being done to the prestige and influence, and indeed to the safety, of our nation and the world ...â€

 

Wassalam,

Y

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That's not a point. The so-called Holocaust myths are mostly unfounded. If you don't agree with me, then let's not waste time, just address my post about the mass graves if you dare.

Let me reiterate the point...which you appearantly missed again.

If you agree that Miracles did exist or can exist regardless of what time, era, dimension or logical barriers ..........then consider the innocents excaping from concentration camps a miracle. Your asked how is it possible? I say Miracle, that's how it's possible.

Now If you still want to deny it then provide some sort of intelligible resoning as to why would God stop performing miracles..or why wouldn't God save innocent Jews from Hitler? Let's stick with logic plz.

 

Hint: because he's anti zionist is not a valid argument.

 

Peace

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five times as many civilians died in the single day of the Dresden holocaust & the merciless retribution of the 'Eisenhower camps' in the years after it ended than all jews died in all the German administered camps in the entire war.

 

Got a source for this? Other than a neo-Nazi site, I mean.

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LOLOLOL.....and fom Indonesia :sl: :sl:

So, you agree with me that the Nazi treatment of Jews was, more or less, the same as what the Allies did to their enemies in World War II?

 

Now If you still want to deny it then provide some sort of intelligible resoning as to why would God stop performing miracles..or why wouldn't God save innocent Jews from Hitler? Let's stick with logic plz.

Because if the most talked about mass extermination policy where the Third Reich tried to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on is true, then countless Jews who were prisoners for several years had contradicted such policies.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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1. Troops being sent is not because of the moral policy of Eisenhower, but because of the victory of civil rights struggle which was won only through mass action which mobilized millions in opposition. If you see the whole picture, Eisenhower’s behavior during the Little Rock crisis reflected his extreme reluctance.

 

True. But Eisenhowers behavior doesn't show extreme reluctance, it shows pragmatic restraint. I would have taken a harder line against Little Rock, but I understand why he did what he did. In the interest of the country as a whole, he had to be shown by those millions that the US was ready for change.

 

He ignored appeals for consultation from the NAACP, but in fact had a private session with Faubus at his vacation home in Newport, Rhode Island.

 

When you want to defuse a conflict, you talk to the aggressor, which in this case was Governor Faubus.

 

3. When he finally deployed troops, he made no attempt to hide his real motives for the action. He spoke about “respect for law,†but not social and political equality. He said it is to defend the interests of American capitalism:

 

“At a time when we face grave situations abroad because of the hatred that communism bears toward a system of government based on human rights, it would be difficult to exaggerate the harm that is being done to the prestige and influence, and indeed to the safety, of our nation and the world ...â€

 

He says it right there. "towards a system based on human rights"; that implies that segregation is against human rights. Besides, Eisenhower is definitely on the record as supporting the goals of the Civil rights movement.

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In the interest of the country as a whole, he had to be shown by those millions that the US was ready for change.

That's stupid if we have to wait for the hearts of men to change until we think that we have to fix the wrongs. As a leader, he was supposed to be proactive in initiating changes for the better, not to be silent, to just wait and see until the hearts of men change. That's stupid. Blacks had been the most patient and they had been patient for all the mistreatment they had for decades in the racist country.

 

When you want to defuse a conflict, you talk to the aggressor, which in this case was Governor Faubus.

It's only in the US where the aggressor gets a sympathy instead of antipathy. As a leader, he had to accomodate the leaders of both parties, not only the aggressor. Why did he continue to refuse to meet with black leaders to get input on how racial problems could be resolved? One of the possible reasons is that he is not comfortable in Black company or he didn't believe in their cause.

 

He says it right there. "towards a system based on human rights"; that implies that segregation is against human rights. Besides, Eisenhower is definitely on the record as supporting the goals of the Civil rights movement.

As I see it, it was because of communism threat that he began to consider taking some actions, though with extreme reluctance. So, it apparently was not because he believed that it was the right thing for him to do so.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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All I'm saying is, just because he ignored the issue, It doesn't mean he was a racist. It means he thought other things were more important to deal with first, and he was probably right. What with de-escalating the Korean War, reconstructing Europe and Japan, walking a political non-interventionalist tightrope regarding former European colonies, and most importantly keeping the USSR at bay during a time of increasing escalation, it makes sense that he didn't address some of the pressing social issues until later in his presidency. In fact, he se up the executive in a way during his term so he could focus almost exclusively on foreign affairs. What I meant by him having to be shown by millions was political commentary. Until Little Rock, for all he knew taking a harder line would have been political suicide. We are talking about politicians after all. Don't misunderstand me; I am fully aware of the concept of "tyranny of the majority". But what we are talking about here is whether he did it out of racism or not. The fact that he did take radical action for civil rights, even if it was in his second term (again, politically expedient), puts a sizeable dent in the racism theory.

 

It's only in the US where the aggressor gets a sympathy instead of antipathy. As a leader, he had to accomodate the leaders of both parties, not only the aggressor. Why did he continue to refuse to meet with black leaders to get input on how racial problems could be resolved? One of the possible reasons is that he is not comfortable in Black company or he didn't believe in their cause.

 

Let me try to put this in terms you understand. Say you wanted to convince israel to stop blockading Gaza. Which side would you talk to? besides, Eisen hower frequently corresponded with the other side too.

Edited by Russ of Vespuccia

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A president is a representative, Just like everyone else elected into office in my country. His job is to do what the people want, not enact his own agenda.

Really? Sounds like a disgusting system to me. So, he realized that he was a representative of racist masses, and he decided that he should do what the majority racists want?

 

It's called democracy. Anyway, if sending the 101st Airborne to Little Rock isn't "proactive", what is?

So, the disgusting system is called democracy? Interesting ...

Proactive ... now, don't make me laugh, please. He send the soldiers only when knew the situation was serious.

 

Let me try to put this in terms you understand. Say you wanted to convince israel to stop blockading Gaza. Which side would you talk to?

I don't mind that he talked with Faubus, do I?

 

besides, Eisen hower frequently corresponded with the other side too.

Yes, because he didn't want to have direct contact with the Blacks. So, he used correspondence. Frequently? I am not sure. Actually, if he met with Black leaders, it would do much to give heart and courage to white people of good will who remained silent when their voices were needed.

 

Maybe you inherit Eisenhower's legacy, Russ. So, I can't really blame ya.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Damn, you got me before I fixed it. It wasn't until reading it over that I realized how off base I was. Let me walk you through my thought process:

 

Were this any other issue, I would stand by what I said. I do want a representative, not a leader. But when it comes to god given rights, like being treated the same regardless of color or creed, there is no comprimise.

 

I'm not on some personal mission to proclaim Eisenhower as the greatest president. I'm losing sight of the point of this thread which is about the holocaust, not Eisenhower.

 

Please respond to the improved version.

 

Maybe you inherit Eisenhower's legacy, Russ. So, I can't really blame ya.

 

What is that supposed to mean?

 

Anyway, the Holocaust...

Edited by Russ of Vespuccia

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Salamz

 

Because if the most talked about mass extermination policy where the Third Reich tried to eliminate every Jew they got their hands on is true, then countless Jews who were prisoners for several years had contradicted such policies.

In other words why didn't they imprison instead of killing them right away?

Still my answer applies..it can be a Miracle for He can soften the heart of the most ruthless adversary if he pleaseth...so yeah miracle..when all logic fails miracle can make sense out of the anything :no:

ok fine, I'll refelect a bit more :sl:

 

Realistically speaking, we can't say for sure..but we do know that Third Reich's main goal was to preserve the Aryan race from dirty jew blood. So whether they kill or incarcerate, use them to test beuty products or handbags...as long as jews aren't making babies or mixinng with Aryans, The Third reich would be content with the purpose.

Also don't forget that instant death is not as much fun as prolonged suffering..and that would mean added bonus to the ones lacking a sensative aoetic pump. :j:

Or maybe it's the otherway around as it's so very possible that some of the Third Reich recruits actually have a sensative,empathetic heart with humanity/inner voices/morality bla bla and those pink ballerinas actually decided to treat some these dirty jews different from livestock.

OR

Perhaps they needed the free manpower/labor to build construction marvels like pyramids ...no wait that's been done..scratch that one.

So..to sum up

how they survived?

dunno

Is it even logically posiible to survive?

for sure

How?

reasons mentioned above

 

Now can we cross #1 off the list? :sl:

 

Peace

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This thread is absurd . Holocaust Denial is nothing more than a matter of diplaying one 's utter ignorance .

 

To even consider the survival of jews, as a reason for denying the fact that a plan was made and executed ,with the purpose of exterminating them , is on its face foolishness .

 

A question is implied , in such a ridiculous proposition , and that is "WHY " did they survive ?

That question , in itself indicates an even deeper ignorance ...if that is posible .

 

To systematically attempt to murder a race , consisting of about 8 million or so individuals , estimated to have been living in Europe at the time of the Nazi regime , takes time , resources and a large amount of willing executioners . And of course no hindrances by invading Allied Forces .

Had Hitler been left to his own devices , had there been no successfull invasion of Europe by the Allies , had Hitler even won the War , that plan STILL would not have succeeded , for there were many Jews who escaped from area of Nazi occupation , many who escaped Germany before the Warbroke out , and many who were rescued by the more sane and civilised inhabitants of Europe and Scandinavia .

 

There was no "miracle " , but simple logistics .

 

The fact that a number of jews survived the death camps is simply proof of the instinct of survival in all humans , in addition, the meticulous planning of the Nazis , for they had calculated exactly the number of calories per day to be dispensed to slowly weaken and starve people to death .

In the many camps, there were people in various stages of this slow starvtion , when invading Allied Forces , one by one liberated those camps .

 

And just about all of these were documented by those Allied Forces , both in thousands of eyewitnesses and thousands of videos taken of the camps , their victims barely alive and the piles of bodies ,, mass graves , and remains in the crematoria.

 

It is time for holocaust deniers to put on their "thinking caps " and realize just how ridiculous their claims are .

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I think the real question here is why is it dangerous to question the holocaust as a Westerner? or Why do those from the Middle East desire to question the event?

 

The answer to the first is that the West recognized that if history isn't remembered or understood, it will be repeated. Also that as time goes on genocide seems less and less possible, until we no longer think it is a human problem. After the holocaust many individuals adopted the slogan 'never forget' to demonstrate their stance on the atrocity. The reason we respond so strongly is because forgetting is what you are asking us to do.

 

I think that those in the Middle East question the holocaust because the holocaust has given the Jews political and social leverage that wouldn't exist provided the holocaust wasn't real, or was much less of an atrocity than it is made out to be.

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salaam

 

 

excellent post. good questions. listen to the zionists, ssssqqqqeeeeeeeelllll....!

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salaam

excellent post. good questions. listen to the zionists, ssssqqqqeeeeeeeelllll....!

 

 

So let me see if I got this right , if you think the holocaust really occured , as history and everyother article in the public domain for the past 60 years indicates ....then you are " a zionist " ???

 

I'll tell you whom I hear "squeeeeeling " every time the holocaust comes up .....MUSLIMS .

 

They squeeel for precisely the reasos cow of the sea enumerated , they wish to deny it , because they can't seem to evoke any sympathy for their cause , and the erroneously believe that is is soley due to the holocaust , that the jews gets so much support .

 

Well grow up children , regardless of how you may feel about the holocaust , jews or whoever , you can not deny an historical event , and wish to maintain any credibility .

 

lol....and I'll bet you'll be squeeeeelin' about that Sudden.

 

 

Oink Oink .

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I'm not on some personal mission to proclaim Eisenhower as the greatest president

Sure you don't. We're here not debating if Eisenhower is the greatest president, rather whether or not he is a racist.

 

Now can we cross #1 off the list? :sl:

No ...

 

for there were many Jews who escaped from area of Nazi occupation

Few escaped, many didn't. And do you know why the Zionist leaders blocked the escape of Jews from Hitler's Germany?

 

In the many camps, there were people in various stages of this slow starvtion

That's why I said that, more or less, there is no difference between Eisenhower and Hitler.

 

The answer to the first is that the West recognized that if history isn't remembered or understood, it will be repeated. Also that as time goes on genocide seems less and less possible, until we no longer think it is a human problem.

Then, what stop the US or the West to remember the genocide they have committed for centuries against many kinds of people (Blacks, Indian, Asians)? Well, at least the US should recognize that the Indians died as the result of their genocide policy. In fact, the very American who tried to defend Holocaust here is the same American who said that the death of Indians in America were caused by the hostility shown by the Indians and that they deserved it.

 

The reason we respond so strongly is because forgetting is what you are asking us to do.

Nope. I just asked the West to be fair to all the victims that died during WW2 and to be fair to Germans

 

Wassalam,

Y

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whaaa...? are you drunk? or is your lobotomy acting up?

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This post has violated forum rule #15, 39. Action taken.

For more details, please read our (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]Forum Rules[/url].

 

NOTE: Please use PM next time for any comments that are not related to topic at hand.

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Yasnov, you say there's no difference between Eisenhower and Hitler ?

 

LOL....oh what a confused kid you are !

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Sudden , I wouldn't have expected you to understand anything .

 

After all , you're of the same calibre as Yasnov .

 

 

Bottom line is ....holocaust denial , no matter how much B.S. you try to add to it , like Yasnov , is just that . B.S. And is the epitomy of ignorance .

 

But hey , you two knock yourselves out , delusions are best kept when they're shared , and I 'm sure "misery loves company " .

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Ok Yasnov, appearantly no rationale is enough to convince you because evidentally U won't consider it..so here is something that'll make u happy ..IMO.

 

 

Maybe you can blow it up in size and hang it on your wall if it's not there already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_i28.tinypic(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2i9nzfo.jpg[/img]

 

 

Peace :sl:

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