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Yasnov

My Holocaust Problems - A Primer For Beginners

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Maybe you can blow it up in size and hang it on your wall if it's not there already.

I think you are somewhat confused if you think "defending Hitler" is what Ahmadinejad stands for ... strawman argument ...

 

Wirespeed, didn't you agree with me that the West should be fair to all victims in WWII and to Germans?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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I think you are somewhat confused if you think "defending Hitler" is what Ahmadinejad stands for ... strawman argument ...

 

Wirespeed, didn't you agree with me that the West should be fair to all victims in WWII and to Germans?

 

Wassalam,

Y

 

 

I dont agree with you on anything Yasnov .Ahmadinejad is your kinda guy . You deny the holocaust occurred , that makes you intellectually inferior . LOL....but you can't see it ...well dont fret &Yasnov , it comes with the territory .

 

You think your lame attempt to confuse the issues is fooling anyone ? ...besides yourself that is .

 

The US was fair to all victims , you perpetrate another lie to reinforce your argument that the holocaust did not occur ....your tactics are childish and would be effective only on 6 year olds .

 

The only problem here is that the Germans were not the victims .

When the war ended , and the Germans surrendered , at that point only did the civilians become 'victims ' .

 

So you take a quote , by a biographer of Eisenhower , out of its context , and attempt to build a whole phony argument on Eisenhower 's actions comparable to Hitlers ?

 

And all this to deflect from the fact that you have absolutely no evidence , and by now no credibility to support your views on the holocaust .

 

No surprise there , after all you attempt to validate the "protocols' !

 

 

Yasnov , you're out of your element , and as far as any intellectual arguments go , you've been totally out-classed.

You're just babbling now to save face , you should be embarrassed , but ...lol...I'd bet you're not .....that would take just a bit of intelligence .

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The only problem here is that the Germans were not the victims .

You only offer them choice to be either on the side of Nazi or the Zionist, right? In fact, lots and lots of good German citizens wanted nothing more than to have their own in this world without any Nazi or Zionist influence.

 

So you take a quote , by a biographer of Eisenhower , out of its context , and attempt to build a whole phony argument on Eisenhower 's actions comparable to Hitlers ?

There's no reason for me to take his biographer's words out of context.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Yes , there was no reason for taking it out of context , but you did nonetheless . There also was no readson for you to even bring up Eisenhower in trying to defend your indefensible position of denying the holocaust happened , but nonetheless you did so anyway .

 

Dont sit there and try to bring up what the "german citizens wanted as their own in this world" , because now you are sounding like a moron who has absolutely no sense of history .

And again you vainly attempt to deny the holocaust .

 

 

This has got nothing to do whatsoever with " nazis versus Zionists " , it has everything to do with a maniacal dictator who commited genocide , out of personal hatred , and this hatred resonated with the German people themselves , for they knew where their jewish neighbors were disappearing to , they knew they were being exterminated , they indeed were the informers , and executioners .

 

There is a serious defect in your thinking here yasnov , aside from the deciet you are attempting to perpetrate .

 

As I said on the other thread , your world view is based on lies , and thus you lie for a rational , you lie for affirmation , you lie to support that which you base your own life on .

 

Unfortunately for you , the holocaust has been documented and attested to by literal thousands , yet for the sake of your own ideological point of view , you would deny it .

 

Your delusion is complete .

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In fact, the very American who tried to defend Holocaust here is the same American who said that the death of Indians in America were caused by the hostility shown by the Indians and that they deserved it.

 

What, you mean me?

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Salamz

I think you are somewhat confused if you think "defending Hitler" is what Ahmadinejad stands for ... strawman argument ...

strawmen indeed with all its irony because I never said Ahmadinejad stands for defending hitler :sl: ...Picture says a thousand words...I just figured u would put two and two together....I mean after all the man did actually pull a live anti-Holocaust conference together (If my sources didn't deceive me atleast :sl: )

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Picture says a thousand words...I just figured u would put two and two together....I mean after all the man did actually pull a live anti-Holocaust conference together

That's quite predictable of you. The aim of the conference was not to deny or confirm the Holocaust, but to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust.

 

There also was no readson for you to even bring up Eisenhower in trying to defend your indefensible position of denying the holocaust happened , but nonetheless you did so anyway

If he is a racist to his own citizens, then there is no doubt that he could also be racist to Germans. That's why he was brought up here since we're trying to compare him with Hitler.

 

Dont sit there and try to bring up what the "german citizens wanted as their own in this world"

Why? Don't you think that Germans' voices and sufferings need to be acknowledged and recognized too?

 

This has got nothing to do whatsoever with " nazis versus Zionists " , it has everything to do with a maniacal dictator who commited genocide , out of personal hatred , and this hatred resonated with the German people themselves , for they knew where their jewish neighbors were disappearing to , they knew they were being exterminated , they indeed were the informers , and executioners .

How typical .... Don't your handlers ever tell you something like White Rose Society or maybe Dietrich Bonhoeffer? If no, ask them why. You have the right to know ...

 

Wassalam,

Y

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And do you know why the Zionist leaders blocked the escape of Jews from Hitler's Germany?

This is pretty much like the story of the Zionist Jew, Ivan Ivanov, who was arrested for anti-Semitic hate crimes. He made spray-painting anti-Semitic graffiti on houses, cars and synagogues in his neighborhood and so that his local Zionism organization can benefit from the reaction caused by the action and generate more sympathies in the future for whatever purpose.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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That's quite predictable of you. The aim of the conference was not to deny or confirm the Holocaust, but to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust.

Well I didn't actually attend the conference but if you did then you would know better..like I stated my opinion is based on what media claimed...Besides I don't even get the motive of discussing something with no Goal in mind?....Will that be of any use to judge the newer generation in anyway?

Like for example..Let's say holocaust didn't occur ..what does that prove anyway? If it was a Jew tactic to fool the world then it appearantly worked pretty well...does denying it help any cause? if so then what exactly is it?

I am sure holocaust or no holocaust, people with strong opinion about Jewws in general won't change their mind wheather it did occur not...it's unlikely that will change their opinion.

 

 

Peace

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Teaching a more correct and accurate history to your children doesn't mean anything to you, does it, llogical? Can you tell me why it is not important to learn that it is the Zionist Jew, Ivan Ivanov, who made spray-painting anti-Semitic graffiti on houses, cars and synagogues in his neighborhood?

 

Let's say holocaust didn't occur ..what does that prove anyway? If it was a Jew tactic to fool the world then it appearantly worked pretty well...does denying it help any cause? if so then what exactly is it?

Well, at least it will make israel starts taking care of its citizens rather than expecting and relying on some sort of blood money from the 20 old year Germans whose parents might be losing much too from Hitler. israel should stop using their Holocaust card today to guilt the Germans. Germany have paid their dues. Don't you get it?

 

Europe News

israel wants Holocaust reparations with Germany reopened (Roundup)

Nov 9, 2007, 11:38 GMT

Jerusalem/Berlin - israel wants to reopen its 1952 agreement with Germany granting reparations for Holocaust survivors, an israeli minister said in remarks published Friday.

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.monstersandcritics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/europe/news/article_1372463.php"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.monstersandcritics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/europe/...cle_1372463.php[/url]

 

World remembers Holocaust; antisemitism lurks, waiting

By Stan Goodenough

January 27, 2008

As a number of different nations Sunday observed International Holocaust Memorial Day, israel's cabinet heard a grim warning from Social Affairs Minister Isaac Herzog:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjnewswire(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/article/2305"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjnewswire(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/article/2305[/url]

 

Now, can you tell me why we all need to bring out our violins and start sobbing for the Holocaust?

 

I am sure holocaust or no holocaust, people with strong opinion about Jewws in general won't change their mind wheather it did occur not...it's unlikely that will change their opinion.

It's good to know that you are one of the people with fixed opinions about the "God's chosen people"

 

Wassalam,

Y

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The nwhy not just put him in his place and do it, Yasnov?

I am not sure what you meant by that. In case, this is what you are asking ...

 

German academics: Enough of special treatment for israel

 

Twenty five influential academics post petition calling on government to stop embracing israel because of Holocaust, start embracing Palestinians as well

 

Eldad Beck

Published: 11.16.06, 09:33 / israel News

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetynetnews(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/0,7340,L-3328858,00.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetynetnews(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/0,7340,L-3328858,00.html[/url]

 

Wassalam,

Y

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What I meant, Yasnov, was while I don't doubt that you can't provide the information, I am increasingly frustratedthat you refuse to.

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Teaching a more correct and accurate history to your children doesn't mean anything to you, does it, llogical?

Ofcource it does..What I would teach about history is:

-What's bias and how uncertain and bias history can really be.

-how to differentiate between primary source and secondary sources and how to derive objective conclusions.

My version lack sall the unnecessary hatred and baseless/useless accusations that lack concrete evidence or a postive motive.I see no use of filling young minds with unnecessary hatred..especially when others can teach that...they won't be able to change what's been done or single handedly influence israel/Jews/Germany's governments armed with the holocaust denial jazz.

 

Now, can you tell me why we all need to bring out our violins and start sobbing for the Holocaust?

because even if a single person was hurt..it's worth it.

Perhaps you can explain to us how the concept of Aryan race was just a decptive ruse by media, or get your hands on psychic assylums across the world to see how many Jews faked post traumatic syndromes, or nightmares from "staged holocaust".

It's good to know that you are one of the people with fixed opinions about the "God's chosen people"

My personal opinion is usually based on rationale..far from fixed, and doesn't even spare God let alone his people.

To me the way you quote "God's chosen people", and by some of the other posts.. the way you feel about Jews in general is self evident. I am pretty sure bias plays a big part in creating this thread. now I am not saying what you claim has no chance of being true..but nothing you've said is remotely close to being a conclusive evidence and your persistance is what triggers my opinion. I said bias because I sense it. how do I exempt myslef?...I'v lots of muslim friends and side from myself, 100% of my family/relatives are practicing muslims,my father prays 5 times/day I've been a part of muslim community all my life...and while I hate to generalize, the significanant presence of antisematic attitude with baseless rationale is hard to miss. And I am not singling out muslims only lots of Christians feel the same way. Whether it stems from the account of bani israel transgressions or of betrayel of Judas, there is no justification for judging people based on ancentery of beliefs. I am all about no censorship and speaking your mind etc...but ofcourse people with twist and turn when u try to deny what's otherwise a very sentimental issue to people as human beings.So why would you even persue to defend that position with lack of objective, concrete evidence especially with no positive motive in sight?

( schooling children with opiniated hatred is not a valid motive to me)

 

peace

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Sure you don't. We're here not debating if Eisenhower is the greatest president, rather whether or not he is a racist.

If you want some information regarding racist American presidents, I have a great deal for you. Woodrow Wilson, the president of our country during World War I also had the distinction of watching the first motion picture in the White House. The movie was "A History of the United States of America" that portrayed the KKK as heroes and blacks as idiots. Andrew Jackson was known for policies that exterminated and marginalized hundreds of thousands of Indians, and even Lincoln who freed the slaves was initially nervous about equal treatment between blacks and whites. No one here is saying that racism is right, or that Americans are innocent of it. What we are saying is that we should learn and repent from the racist mistakes our forefathers have made so as to prevent it from reoccurring in the future.

 

 

That's why I said that, more or less, there is no difference between Eisenhower and Hitler.

There is a massive difference between racism and the extermination of millions of civilians who are also citizens of your own country, don't you think?

Then, what stop the US or the West to remember the genocide they have committed for centuries against many kinds of people (Blacks, Indian, Asians)? Well, at least the US should recognize that the Indians died as the result of their genocide policy.

We do though, that's the thing. We acknowledge it so much that there is even a countermovement in the US against what they call 'liberal guilt' which is the assumption of blame for all of the things we have done in the past.

 

I am not sure what you meant by that. In case, this is what you are asking ...

 

German academics: Enough of special treatment for israel

 

Twenty five influential academics post petition calling on government to stop embracing israel because of Holocaust, start embracing Palestinians as well

 

Eldad Beck

Published: 11.16.06, 09:33 / israel News

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetynetnews(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/0,7340,L-3328858,00.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetynetnews(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/articles/0,7340,L-3328858,00.html[/url]

 

Wassalam,

Y

many Americans sympathize with the plight of Palestine. In fact, at my school someone crossed out israel on the map in the library and wrote 'Palestine' there instead. But they feel no need to deny the holocaust to do so.

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Ofcource it does..What I would teach about history is:

-What's bias and how uncertain and bias history can really be.

-how to differentiate between primary source and secondary sources and how to derive objective conclusions.

My version lack sall the unnecessary hatred and baseless/useless accusations that lack concrete evidence or a postive motive.I see no use of filling young minds with unnecessary hatred..especially when others can teach that...they won't be able to change what's been done or single handedly influence israel/Jews/Germany's governments armed with the holocaust denial jazz.

You seem quite good at answering questions involving abstract concept like that (good in the sense that you are not trying to evade it). I wish you have addressed the point I raised about the mass grave with a detailed answer of the same length as you gave above.

 

because even if a single person was hurt..it's worth it.

For me this is just a blah blah blah arguments. It seems like a good answer, however, it doesn't answer at all my previous question, and the question still stands: why the Holocaust should be given more importance over others to the extent that several nations should remember that on a certain day every year, kids are required to visit Auswicz, and even to the extent where several people should go to jail for questioning it.. Why should Holocaust be different from American genocide, the old one, or the Bosnian genocide, the most recent one?

 

Perhaps you can explain to us how the concept of Aryan race was just a decptive ruse by media, or get your hands on psychic assylums across the world to see how many Jews faked post traumatic syndromes, or nightmares from "staged holocaust".

Maybe you can explain to me why you think the words "I hated Germans" from Eisenhower and his aides is a deceptive ruse by media? Why the stories about the cruel American food policy in Germany, the mistreatments of Germans (even children and women) after the defeat of Hitler is just fake stories?

 

My personal opinion is usually based on rationale..far from fixed, and doesn't even spare God let alone his people.

To me the way you quote "God's chosen people", and by some of the other posts.. the way you feel about Jews in general is self evident. I am pretty sure bias plays a big part in creating this thread. now I am not saying what you claim has no chance of being true..but nothing you've said is remotely close to being a conclusive evidence and your persistance is what triggers my opinion. I said bias because I sense it. how do I exempt myslef?...I'v lots of muslim friends and side from myself, 100% of my family/relatives are practicing muslims,my father prays 5 times/day I've been a part of muslim community all my life...and while I hate to generalize, the significanant presence of antisematic attitude with baseless rationale is hard to miss. And I am not singling out muslims only lots of Christians feel the same way. Whether it stems from the account of bani israel transgressions or of betrayel of Judas, there is no justification for judging people based on ancentery of beliefs. I am all about no censorship and speaking your mind etc...but ofcourse people with twist and turn when u try to deny what's otherwise a very sentimental issue to people as human beings.So why would you even persue to defend that position with lack of objective, concrete evidence especially with no positive motive in sight? ( schooling children with opiniated hatred is not a valid motive to me)

Sorry ... blah blah blah argument again. Trust me, I don't care what you feel or what you think of me or my intention. Your opinion on me is not the subject of discussion. I wish you had given me a detailed answer of the same length as your answer above when I asked you to clarify about the mass grave.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Damn, you got me before I fixed it. It wasn't until reading it over that I realized how off base I was. Let me walk you through my thought process:

That's ok. Btw, I was told that someone's original post is usually more honest and sincere than his edited post. I am not sure if it's true ; )

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Salamz

For me this is just a blah blah blah arguments. It seems like a good answer, however, it doesn't answer at all my previous question, and the question still stands: why the Holocaust should be given more importance over others to the extent that several nations should remember that on a certain day every year, kids are required to visit Auswicz, and even to the extent where several people should go to jail for questioning it..

LoL so It's both a good answer and a blah blag argument, I see your logic but I am glad you recognize it for yourslef here. :sl:

Why should Holocaust be different from American genocide, the old one, or the Bosnian genocide, the most recent one?

I never said it is different....nor feel it relevant in this discussion. Still considering you have an attention span of an average human.. if you actually read any of my previous posts instead of breezing through and blocking out the part that you can't argue with then you would know that I would see genocide of all kind the same way.

Maybe you can explain to me why you think the words "I hated Germans" from Eisenhower and his aides is a deceptive ruse by media? Why the stories about the cruel American food policy in Germany, the mistreatments of Germans (even children and women) after the defeat of Hitler is just fake stories?

I am not here to defend Eisenhowever, G.W.B or Americans. American military actions have had their fair share of screwing up other countries to preserve it's own selfish interests. It's taught in American history minus all the glory you would presume. Matter fact in my college years of taking history, I recall a retired military official apperaing as guest speaker sharing his personal experience and all the military screwups no holds barred. Something which I am sure would be considered as anti patriotic and punishable in many third world nations ..perhaps like the one where you learnt you history.

So yea it's possible that the allegations you believe are true..I do not know for sure since I am neither Eisenower or an omniscient entity...nor you, who seem to know all the world history and the correct version of it.

Sorry ... blah blah blah argument again. Trust me, I don't care what you feel or what you think of me or my intention. Your opinion on me is not the subject of discussion. I wish you had given me a detailed answer of the same length as your answer above when I asked you to clarify about the mass grave.

Right...... good answer but blah blah again..I am with ya :sl: .

And I love the way you threw in "Trust me" with all it's irony :no: ..for you know well I trust you as far as your arguments make sense (I would say as far as I can throw you but based on what I read you must be a very big guy :j: )

About the mass grave, I thought I already answered if you are referring to the stone with 4 million vs 6 million discrepency. Two lines or two paragraphs can often convey the same message if you actually read, but since I am accustomed to repeating myslef..here it goes again...hopefully with more meat.

So assuming the pic wasn't photoshopped.. here are some possible explainations for stone vs internt source discrepency:

1.It is a typo.

2.The sources are different or conflicting in reality.

3.The numbers are purposely blown up to 6 million to get more sympathy.

Often the initial estimate of death toll is usally less then the later estimate as more and more data is available.

This holds true for any catastrophe, numbers grow. So again not knowing the actual data gathering methods its very difficult for me to speculate. That's why I said befire ...even if 1 million people died instead of 4 or 6 million, it still un deniable that it all went down.

 

peace

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even if 1 million people died instead of 4 or 6 million, it still un deniable that it all went down.

It is undeniable that the stories surrounding the holocaust is contradicting one another?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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It is undeniable that the stories surrounding the holocaust is contradicting one another?

Whens humans are involved facts often differ...heck not two translations of Qurana are 100% same. Since you asked me to explain the different numbers repeatedly....different numbers don't contradict an entire event. Try picking up a local newpaper when disaster like earthquake strikes..see if the numbers match there, it was worse back in the days.. Holocaust didn't occur in fast paced information age like of todays..with internet and improved inofo gathering tools. It's not like the dead Jews can walk into the department of Holocaust statistics and register themselves as dead...the numbers are usually estimated and as more bodies are discovered/more stories unraveled.

Ofcource if you start your argument with conclusion and hold it as a true premise...nothing will ever convince you.

 

Peace

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Since you asked me to explain the different numbers repeatedly....different numbers don't contradict an entire event.

I was asking about the mass grave ...

 

Results 1 - 10 of about 10,800 for (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgoogle(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?hl=en&q=treblinka+australian+investigation+graves"]treblinka australian investigation graves[/url] no trace of mass graves

 

Certain photographs ("documentary evidence for the Holocaust") that Jewish groups have said showed a big pile of dead Jews at Buchenwald really showed a big pile of dead Germans at Dresden. And they said it is the photographic documentary evidence for the Holocaust.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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That's ok. Btw, I was told that someone's original post is usually more honest and sincere than his edited post. I am not sure if it's true ; )

 

I'll tell you what happened. I became irrational in my zeal to prove you wrong. my first post was a product of that, not my actual opinions. If it were, I would have left it as it was. I'm not as deceptive as to give a false opinion. :sl:

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Truth needs not to be proved wrong, Russ.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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You changed truth? That's even worse :sl:

 

Wassalam,

Y

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