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MuslimBro

Ur Concept Of God

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:D

Tell us of your god by quoting YOUR HOLY SCRIPTURES...plz DONT bother giving ur interpretation of GOD or any other book, only quote your scripture. To describe my God (Allah) i will quote 3 verses from Quran so not not to make my post extensive:

Say: He is Allah, the One!

Allah, the eternally Besought of all!

He begetteth not nor was begotten.

And there is none comparable unto Him.

 

^ Chapter 112, Al-Ikhlas

 

So above chapter explains how Allah is ONLY one, not one in three. His is not bound by anything, he doesnt have son nor is he fathered, and nothing whatsoever is like him, if u can picture Allah, then its not Allah Almighty u r picturing

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Grace and Peace be with you,

 

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. - 1 John 4:7-11

 

This is probably the most touching expression of the Christian understanding of God found in Scripture. Thank you for letting me share it with you.

 

Peace 4 Real

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Grace and Peace be with you,

 

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. - 1 John 4:7-11

 

This is probably the most touching expression of the Christian understanding of God found in Scripture. Thank you for letting me share it with you.

 

Peace 4 Real

:D

 

Mankind's ability to see, hear and Love all comes from Allah.,

Ze all have free will, and that is enough for anyone to realize that true love comes from setting one free.

 

One thing for sure, mankind's nature is to love, but sometimes chooses to love the very things that bring them pain and sarrow until they realize they want the return of there peace.

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:D

 

I dont like how you are saying my god and your god, God Almighty is God Almighty, there are just differnt perceptions.

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:D

 

I dont like how you are saying my god and your god, God Almighty is God Almighty, there are just differnt perceptions.

 

Grace and Peace Leila,

 

I'm not sure who your reply was directed toward but I've read all three posts before yours and I can see where anyone placed a "claim" on God such as "my" God and "your" God. Could you be so kind as to point me what offended you?

 

Oops! I just noticed this in MuslimBro's post. I took no offense to it but I can understand if one would.

 

Peace 4 Real

Edited by Ignatius

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:D

Tell us of your god by quoting YOUR HOLY SCRIPTURES...plz DONT bother giving ur interpretation of GOD or any other book, only quote your scripture. To describe my God (Allah) i will quote 3 verses from Quran so not not to make my post extensive:

 

Peace be with you Ignatius,

I'm sorry that I wasnt clear I should have quoted the text at the start. I wasnt so much offended, I just dont think it is an accurate way of speaking especially on behalf of a muslim it gives the impression that we believe in a seperate God, When we believe there is Only One Creator, God Almighty. How people choose to percieve God is a differnt thing.

I hope I have cleared that up.

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:D

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. - 1 John 4:7-11

 

This is probably the most touching expression of the Christian understanding of God found in Scripture. Thank you for letting me share it with you.

thank u for attempting to answer

 

i am sorry, but i still dont understand, god is merely love? so places where there is hatred, there is no god? Did Hitler know god, because even he loved animals...

 

u said god sent a son? Was son before or after father-god? if its after, then was he created? If he wasnt created, how did he came to have son...remembering the definiation of son?

 

Secondly, i want to ask, was jesus man/woman/something else?

 

lastly, if jesus was man, then how come god came to have a man as a child...can a human have plant as a son? i hope ur answer would not be, that i have human logic and not god-logic, since i am human and can only possess human logic to understand. I am not a big fan of "blind faith", so i will only believe what appears logical...so how did All Powerful embedded in flesh and became powerless like ?

Oops! I just noticed this in MuslimBro's post. I took no offense to it but I can understand if one would.

i agree, god is ONLY one...there is no your god or my god, there is only 1 god...BUT, ur concept of god is different from mine, i dont believe concept of kids apply with god, this is only for humans and animals...similarly, hindu believe Krishna (their god), came down to earth as man, which is ofcourse limiting god in flesh...so i would never claim my idea of god is same as your, hence y i used the term "my" and "your"

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Peace Everyone,

 

Consider this my scripture!

 

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

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does this suffice?

 

God's Commandments were set forward as follows in Exodus 20:

 

I

I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, YOU SHALL HAVE no other gods BEFORE ME.

 

II

YOU SHALL NOT MISUSE THE NAME OF THE LORD YOUR GOD.

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:D

 

thank u for attempting to answer

 

i am sorry, but i still dont understand, god is merely love? so places where there is hatred, there is no god? Did Hitler know god, because even he loved animals...

 

u said god sent a son? Was son before or after father-god? if its after, then was he created? If he wasnt created, how did he came to have son...remembering the definiation of son?

 

Secondly, i want to ask, was jesus man/woman/something else?

 

lastly, if jesus was man, then how come god came to have a man as a child...can a human have plant as a son? i hope ur answer would not be, that i have human logic and not god-logic, since i am human and can only possess human logic to understand. I am not a big fan of "blind faith", so i will only believe what appears logical...so how did All Powerful embedded in flesh and became powerless like ?

 

Grace and Peace MuslimBro,

 

um, I think we could get into some real trouble if we pursued your inquiry here. I know the forum rules pretty well and I think you might what to avoid this kind of dialog.

 

If you are really interested, I might point you to the Refuting Non-Muslims section where you could read the thread on "refuting the Trinity". It appears to address a lot of your post here.

 

If you seek more direct dialog on this, PM me and I will try to point you to some resources.

 

i agree, god is ONLY one...there is no your god or my god, there is only 1 god...BUT, ur concept of god is different from mine, i dont believe concept of kids apply with god, this is only for humans and animals...similarly, hindu believe Krishna (their god),  came down to earth as man, which is ofcourse limiting god in flesh...so i would never claim my idea of god is same as your, hence y i used the term "my" and "your".

 

Well this is to be expected. Islam holds a very dim view on the Christian Scripture and Teachings. Note, it is not "my view" but the view of Saint John the Apostle. I don't know all that much of Krishna and I don't have any problem with you suggesting that we don't share the same ideas of God because truly we clearly don't. I've read enough of the Qur'an to know that there are verses which clearly suggest that we each have a very different Faith and very different views and teachings about God's Nature. I can't change that anymore than I can change the mind of God. I can only share with you what I have to share and know. You asked, I shared. :D

 

Peace 4 Real.

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DONT bother giving ur interpretation of GOD or any other book

 

We should honor MuslimBro's request since he started this thread.

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does this suffice?

 

God's Commandments were set forward as follows in Exodus 20:

 

I

  I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, YOU SHALL HAVE no other gods BEFORE ME.

 

II

  YOU SHALL NOT MISUSE THE NAME OF THE LORD YOUR GOD.

:D

 

very good Tom

 

You do also realize that the Qu'ran contains the same ten comandements, also refutes man made inventions taken place after the Kabaa that Abraham (PBUH), who was before Moses (PBUH) and the Torah and who laid down the foundations of the true one God religion,

 

And Abraham (PBUH) was not a Jew or a Christian and yet, Moses and Jesus (PBUTB) ministered the religion of Abraham which Muhammed (PBUTB)was the final Prophet and messenger of and who removed other idols of dieties surounding the Kabaa., no one can deny this if they treuly believe in the religion of Abraham :D

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Peace all,

 

Good idea for a thread!

 

I really don't know any scripture that does justice to God, but here are a few of my favorites:

 

The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation.

-Exodus 34:6-7

 

 

And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

-1 Kings 19:11-12

 

And this from John's vision about the end of the world and the beginning of heaven.

 

Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

-Revelation 21:3-7

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Peace all,

 

Good idea for a thread!

 

I really don't know any scripture that does justice to God, but here are a few of my favorites:

 

The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,  keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation.

-Exodus 34:6-7

And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

-1 Kings 19:11-12

 

And this from John's vision about the end of the world and the beginning of heaven.

 

Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

-Revelation 21:3-7

 

Salam me,

 

Nice choices from the Scriptures.

 

Salam

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The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,  keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation.

-Exodus 34:6-7

 

Salaam,

 

I don't understand. It begins saying that the Lord is merciful, gracious and forgiving. Then it ends with God taking revenge on the children of the sinners down to the fourth generation? Aren't those children innocent of the sins of their parents and forefathers? Did not God Himself place those children in those families?

 

In the Qur'an we are taught that each person is responsible for himself. And that no one has to suffer because of the sins of another. God judges fairly and individually. It is His role. And so we also reject the idea that our prophet Jesus (upon him be peace) died on the cross to bear our guilts and sins. We also reject the Christian concept of 'original sin'. Each and every baby born is pure and innocent. Our father and mother - Adam & Eve - both sinned, but God forgave them when they cried to Him and asked for repentance. He doesn't punish all humanity for their sin. That is wrong.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it or his own benefit:

who goeth astray doth so to his own loss:

No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another:

nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).

 

(The Night Journey / Children of israel 17:15)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Peace

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In the Qur'an we are taught that each person is responsible for himself. And that no one has to suffer because of the sins of another. God judges fairly and individually. It is His role. And so we also reject the idea that our prophet Jesus (upon him be peace) died on the cross to bear our guilts and sins. We also reject the Christian concept of 'original sin'. Each and every baby born is pure and innocent. Our father and mother - Adam & Eve - both sinned, but God forgave them when they cried to Him and asked for repentance. He doesn't punish all humanity for their sin. That is wrong.

 

:D Insignia of Islam,

 

Let me say that I know exactly what you mean my dear brother but let me ask you if sin is not experienced like a rock thrown into a shallow pool with ripples which reach all it's sides?

 

Sin effects everyone, not just the sinner. This is the worst part of sin and why we should walk soberly with shame for the burdens our sins cause others.

 

When we sin, we harm others, and in harming them we bring burdens and place them upon their shoulders. They have not asked for these burdens but they bare them never-the-less and not because of "their error" but because of "our error". It is in this nature of sin that we must be aware in order to once again quiet the pool and calm the ripples which sin makes in our lives and the lives of those we encounter. Vigilance should ever be about us for this in order to walk as true Muslims. Ameen.

 

:D

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Salaam,

 

I don't understand. It begins saying that the Lord is merciful, gracious and forgiving. Then it ends with God taking revenge on the children of the sinners down to the fourth generation? Aren't those children innocent of the sins of their parents and forefathers? Did not God Himself place those children in those families?

 

In the Qur'an we are taught that each person is responsible for himself. And that no one has to suffer because of the sins of another. God judges fairly and individually. It is His role. And so we also reject the idea that our prophet Jesus (upon him be peace) died on the cross to bear our guilts and sins. We also reject the Christian concept of 'original sin'. Each and every baby born is pure and innocent. Our father and mother - Adam & Eve - both sinned, but God forgave them when they cried to Him and asked for repentance. He doesn't punish all humanity for their sin. That is wrong.   

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it or his own benefit:

who goeth astray doth so to his own loss:

No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another:

nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).

 

(The Night Journey / Children of israel 17:15)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Peace

 

Peace Insignia of Islam,

 

I wanted to respond, but not sidetrack the thread.

 

I have always understood the concept of "visiting iniquity" to mean that sin has consequences, and serious sin has serious consequences. It does not negate personal accountability to God, nor does it doom the children of the wicked to automatic damnation. I believe God is saying that while He is indeed merciful, there is no free ride for sin, and we will leave a legacy for those that follow us; either a legacy of righteousness or one of sin. An alcoholic or abusive parent will set in motion patterns of behavior that will ripple through several generations. Even if the offspring doesn't follow in the specific sin, they will struggle with many issues because of the impact. It does not put them beyond God's mercy or His help.

 

Exodus 20:5-6 has another way of putting it:

"I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the fathers' sin, to the third and fourth [generations] of those who hate Me, but showing faithful love to a thousand [generations] of those who love Me and keep My commands."

 

So sin can cause problems in your family for 60 or 80 years, but righteousness will continue to bless your descendents 2 millenia from now. I want to repeat this does not negate personal accountability; living in the household of the righteous has benefits, just as living among those who hate God has it's problems.

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Salaam,

 

Thank you both for your insights. I can see where you are coming from. But it has to be agreed on that at first glance the verses do seem to suggest God visits punishments down to the 4th generations. There are clearly effects of parents on their children. But those verses are ambiguous and can be interpreted in more than one way.

 

I respect your interpretation 'me'. It is a better one too.

 

Peace

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Deuteronomy 6

4 Hear, O israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!

5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Psalm 103

13 As a father pities his children, so the LORD pities those who fear Him.

14 For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust.

...

17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him, and His righteousness to children's children,

18 To such as keep His covenant, adn to those who remember His commandments to do them.

19 The LORD has established His throne in heaven, and His kingdom rules over all.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Psalm 8

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have ordained,

4 What is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man that You visit him?

5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and You have crowned him with glory and honor.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Isaiah 40

25 "To whom then will you liken Me, or to whom shall I be equal?" says the Holy One.

26 Lift up your eeys on high, and see who has created these things, who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, by the greatness of His might and the strength of His power; not one is missing.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Isaiah 46

4 Even to your old age, I am He, and even to gray hairs I will carry you! I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.

5 To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we should be alike?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Isaiah 49

15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, and not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, yet I will not forget you.

16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; your walls are continually before me.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Malachi 3

16 Then those who feared teh LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD listened and heard them; so a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who meditate on His name.

17 "They shall be Mine," says the LORD of hosts, "on the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him."

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Those were wonderful verses Wanderer. Thank you for sharing them with us.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now We have sent down to you signs making all clear,

and an example of those who passed away before you,

and an admonition for the Godfearing.

 

God is the Light of the heavens and the earth;

the parable of His Light is as a niche

wherein is a lamp

the lamp is (enclosed) in glass

the glass as it were a radiant star

kindled from a Blessed Tree,

an olive that is neither of the East nor of the West

whose oil wellnigh would shine, even if no fire touched it;

Light upon Light;

 

Or (the Unbelievers' state) is like the depths of darkness in a deep abysmal ocean,

overwhelmed with billow topped by billow,

with (dark) clouds above it all:

depths of darkness, one above another:

if a man stretches out his hands, he can hardly see it,

for any to whom God giveth not light, no light has he

 

Art thou not aware that it is God whose limitless glory all (creatures) that are in the heavens and the earth extol,

even the birds as they spread out their wings?

Each (of them) knows indeed how to pray unto Him and glorify Him;

and God has full knowledge of all that they do.

 

(Various verses from The Light - Chapter 24)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Say: "Who is it that delivereth you from the dark recesses of land and sea,

when ye call upon Him in humility and silent terror:

'If He only delivers us from these (dangers), (we vow) we shall truly show our gratitude'?"

 

(The Cattle 6:63)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And among His signs is this,

that He has created for you mates from among yourselves,

that you may dwell in tranquillity with them;

and He has put love and mercy between you.

Verily in that are signs for those who reflect.

 

(The Romans 30:21)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

God - There is no deity but He,

the Living, the Self-subsisting, the Eternal.

No slumber can seize Him, nor sleep.

All things in the heavens and the earth are His.

Who could intercede in His presence without His permission?

He knows what appears in front of and behind His creatures.

Nor can they encompass any knowledge of Him except what He wills.

His throne extends over the heavens and the earth,

and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them,

for He is the Highest and Most Exalted.

 

(The Cow 2:255)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Peace

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Grace and Peace be with each of you,

 

These are all very thought provoking verses and as I have been reading the Qur'an over the last week or so I've read many verses which parallel Jewish Scriptures and even my own Christian Gospels. I have much admiration for devout Jews and Muslims and frankly that is a lot that I as a Christian can learn from both. As a Catholic Christian, my tradition continues that practice of fasting but in recent years this practice has been under greater and greater criticism by non-denominational Christians to the point that such criticisms has influenced the Catholic Church to move further and further away from its traditional fasts through the 40 days of Lent. The minimalism of many non-denominational Christians reduces Christianity to "faith without any works at all" and it is one of the primary reasons I am a strong advocate for the classic traditions of the Church and one of the reasons I sometimes find myself in greater agreement with devout Jews and Muslims than some of my own Christian Brothers. Although I continue to feel very strongly that Christianity, and in particular Catholic Christianity, is the way to mans fullest expression of God's Revelation of Himself I continue to seek very positive teachings and practices within Islam which have a role to play in my own Catholic Christian faith.

 

I never came here to be converted but my own Faith is made clearer and stronger by sharing these dialogs with each and everyone of you and for that I am very thankful. The Catholic Church teaches that Islam has a place in God (Allah's) Plan of Salvation. I have always been unclear as to why the Catholic Church teaches us such things. Since I have spent time here among you, eventhough we debate and disagree, I am beginning to see why my Church, the Church of the Living God, would teach such things.

 

Again, may the Grace and Peace of the Almighty be with each of you. Amen.

 

Peace 4 Real.

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:D

 

My concept of Allah is that of a reason. When I imagine Allah I try to envision what a reason is. It might sound ridiculous but whatever. Also some kind of whirling abstract energy that changes colors and can turn into everything...if I must visualize something.

 

:D

AS

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This scripture was read in church today and it seemed on topic:

 

"Your unfailing love, O LORD, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths. You care for people and animals alike, O LORD. How precious is your unfailing love, O God! All humanity finds shelter in the shadow of your wings. You feed them from the abundance of your own house, letting them drink from your rivers of delight. For you are the fountain of life, the light by which we see. Pour out your unfailing love on those who love you; give justice to those with honest hearts."

 

Psalm 36: 5-10

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This scripture was read in church today and it seemed on topic:

 

"Your unfailing love, O LORD, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths. You care for people and animals alike, O LORD. How precious is your unfailing love, O God! All humanity finds shelter in the shadow of your wings. You feed them from the abundance of your own house, letting them drink from your rivers of delight. For you are the fountain of life, the light by which we see. Pour out your unfailing love on those who love you; give justice to those with honest hearts."

 

Psalm 36: 5-10

 

As Salaam Aleikum, everyone,

 

I am new to this forum. I am a Hindu. My Daughter married a wonderful Muslim man. And I would like to learn more about Islam.

 

I am also interested in good Inter-Faith Relations. I am not here to preach my relgion to you.

 

My extended family is very large, and includes many kinds of Christians, Muslims,

and Hindus. We all love each other. Although we may not agree with each others' beliefs. We all care for one another.

 

I would like to find a forum where I can talk to Muslims who also respect others' right to their beliefs. Judging from my own family, I am sure there are many out there.

 

 

As to my concept of God, well the Psalm above captures a lot of it!

 

 

All the Best,

 

DeviSarada

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My brain is rattling after reading through this thread.

 

Now how did I know 'Ignatious' was a Catholic? Because I was brought up as one. I have left it all behind; it did nothing for me. Godless, do I feel damned, lost or forlorn? No, I feel as free as a bird.

 

However, I'm not wholly immune to earth-bound attempts to understand it all. I can still enjoy the poetry and allegorical messages in religious writings.

 

I haven't forgotten a Radio Four series about Islam, broadcast over 20 years ago. One line struck me: 'Mohammed cut around his sleeve to allow the cat to continue sleeping'. I was so impressed, I caught the whole series and often thought of that delightful image.

 

The world today doesn't seem to have many people cutting their sleeves to leave that cat sleep.

 

 

 

Londoner

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