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Ribena Halal ?

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:D

 

Some one just told me that my Fav Drink Ribena is HARAM ?? Does any1 have any info ??

 

:D in advance

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its halal

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3527724.stm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3527724.stm[/url]

 

Muslims in the UK have been given permission to consume soft drinks which contain minute traces of alcohol and pork products.

Under strict interpretation of Muslim law, Lucozade and Ribena were both previously considered to be "unclean".

 

Lucozade contains 0.01% ethyl alcohol to aid flavouring, which the Muslim Law Council now says is too small to matter

 

Ribena previously used gelatin - a pork by-product - in its production but has now changed its manufacturing methods.

 

 

Long-running dilemma

 

The Muslim Law Council - the UK's highest authority on halal (clean) food - consulted earlier rulings by imams on halal food before reaching its decision.

 

In the ruling, the Council's chair, Zaki Badawi, said precedents had been set allowing the use of non-halal ingredients in certain cases.

 

"I see no harm in consuming Ribena and Lucozade which contain traces of ethyl alcohol and animal ingredients that do not bear their original qualities and do not change the taste, colour or smell of the product," Mr Badawi said.

 

In its submission to the Muslim Law Council, the drinks' maker, GlaxoSmithKline, pointed out fruit juices and bread could also contain the same or higher trace amounts of alcohol due to natural fermentation.

 

The decision ends a long-running dilemma for some devout Muslims who have avoided buying the brands for fear of breaching religious rules.

 

In the wake of the ruling, the British Soft Drinks Association said it would not propose a new labelling policy but some companies might decide to mark their products "halal" to prevent any future confusion.

 

A spokesman said: "Soft drinks are non-alcoholic, we welcome this confirmation and hope that it can reassure those consumers who were concerned."

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Muslims in the UK have been given permission to consume soft drinks which contain minute traces of alcohol and pork products.

 

 

In the wake of the ruling, the British Soft Drinks Association said it would not propose a new labelling policy but some companies might decide to mark their products "halal" to prevent any future confusion.

 

 

:D

 

Is there a real fatwa on the above?

 

This is going to be silly if I can't even trust the "Halal" label on foods, because the organisation issuing them allows haram ingredients(in small quantities!).

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Assalamu aliakaum

 

But that's thething even fruit and our own bodies have some minute forms of alcohol.

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:D

 

aaah man this is confusin !!!

What do u guys suggest ??

Stop drinking it ?

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Salamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakethu,

 

If the council alows it you can drink it - I think the resposibiltity is theirs infront of Allah(t ). But personally I wouldn´t feel good. My doctor has prescribed me some medcine which contains gelatine and there is no other product on the market for these mattersbut I just can´t take them . I just put mytrust in Allah (t ) that he will find other ways to help me in this matter. And by th waay I think you do not really need these softdrinks for living. Cause we are allowed to eat haram food , if our life is threatened that is not the piont with you :D . If you stop doing something just to gain Allah´s pleasure especially if you ( your nafs ) liked this thing you are will get rewarded. So why not stop it ? On the other Hand as I said in the beginning if it is made Halal by the council I suppose you have to decide how you feel better: Alahu "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a001.html#alim"]alim[/url].

 

wa alaikum salam

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:D

 

I wouldn't drink Ribena anyway, too much sugar! :D

 

 

Luffy, the first time I heard of alcohol in Lucozade, was from a brother who'd drank a few bottles ( :D ) and was later pulled over by the police and given the breathlizer test.

 

They told him he was still under the limit, but to be careful. He was confused and told them he hadn't drank any alcohol at all! One of the policemen saw the bottles of lucozade in his taxi and they figured it out.

 

I don't think that would happen if you consumed a similar amount of fruit juice!

There are trace elements of Alcohol, but those are natural and fruit has been made Halal for us :D

Edited by Shagird

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As-salaamu 'alaikum

 

There is a principle in the Sharee’ah that states that everything in the dunya is permissible until a proof comes to say that it is not, so when it comes to food, all of it is permissible unless there is a proof to say that it is not. With this in mind I would like to share the following with you, which has been taken entirely from a lesson given by Shaykh Muhammad Bazmool (a lecturer at the Islamic University of Madeenah) and a fatwa by Shaykh al-Albaanee:

 

Istihala is when something becomes pure. It was najis (impure) but it is now taahir (pure). A good example would be maitah (animal carcass): it is najis, but should it be burned and become ashes, or decompose and become earth, then it is taahir, it is no longer najis. This can happen with dung or faeces or whatever. Whenever something changes from one property to another, then the ruling likewise changes.

 

Example: Let us say that someone uses the fat of a dead animal to make soap. That fat is najis, but the chemical change that it was put through makes it taahir.

 

Ibn Hazm put it concisely when he said,

 

"Ruling upon an object is upon what it is named (what it is), if the name (what it is) changes then so does the ruling."

 

He also mentioned in his book of fiqh, Al-Muhalla: "If the quality of the substance of naturally impure objects changes the name which was given to it so that it is no more applicable to it and it is given a new name which is given to a pure object, so it is no more an impure thing. It becomes a new object, with a new rule."

 

Meaning that if the natural composition of a substance changes to another substance of a different composition, so much so that you can no longer call the new substance by the name of what it was-- ruling upon that substance changes too.

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Proof/Example 1:

 

The companions (radiyallaahu anhum) used to eat a cheese that came from the land of the disbelievers. In that cheese was a part of the calf which was slaughtered by the disbelievers in a way that is not in accordance with Islam. The companions knew this, but they also knew that the prohibition was upon the calf, what is directly from the calf, and what could be properly called part of the calf; the ruling is not upon that which you cannot identify as part of the calf nor is it called any longer such-and-such part of the calf. This is called istihala.

 

Proof/Example 2:

 

Another proof from the Sunnah: The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) forbade making vinegar out of wine, but he said that if you should come across vinegar that has been made from wine then it is halaal.

 

Why?

 

The ruling is upon what the object is, and not what it was. Wine is haraam; vinegar is not, and before the wine became an intoxicant, it was halaal. Why? Because it was fruit before that.

 

Proof/Example 3:

 

Allah says in the Qur’aan:

 

"And surely there is a lesson for you in the cattle we give you to drink of what is in their bellies from between the faeces and blood, pure milk, wholesome to those who drink it." (16:66)

 

Allah is putting forth an example for us of how something pure can come from something impure.

 

And we can also use as proof something that we've already gone over. The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said that when the hide of maitah (the carrion) is tanned, then it is taahir. He (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) gave us a method to purify something which was first impure.

 

Let us examine things we are familiar with: mono and triglycerides, whey, gluten, emulsifiers, gelatine, and whatever else is on the international haraam list. These by-products sometimes come from animals, pigs even, in which case the ruling on the initial substances is that they are haraam. But the initial substances (e.g. fat, marrow, cartilage, etc.) are put through chemical change so that you no longer can even call it "pig fat" or "animal bone" or "skin" or "cartilage", etc. because it is no longer that, hence it is taahir, it is halaal.

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What is gelatine? As Oxford dictionary of science defines: "A colourless or pale yellow, water-soluble protein obtained by boiling collagen with water and evaporating the solution. It melts when water is added and dissolves in hot water to form a solution that sets to a gel on cooling." (Page 290)

 

Is this a chemical change or is this not a chemical change? Is it protein any longer? No, it is not.

 

You are in disbelief so you ask, "But how can it be halaal when it came from something haraam?"

 

Because of the proofs mentioned above, the ruling is not based upon what it was; the ruling is based upon what it is. A Hanafi scholar, Ibn Abedin gave the example: "the swine which drowns in a salt lake and decomposes and becomes salt itself, is now halaal."

 

And other Hanafi scholars go on to say: "salt is different from meat and bones. If they become salt, they are salt."

 

To take the salt example further: salt consists of sodium chloride (NaCl) when together they are the halaal food known as salt, when separated they make up two poisonous substances which are then haraam for consumption.

 

The ahnaaf (Hanafi's) also use as an example the human semen, saying that it is najis, then when it inseminates the egg and becomes a blood clot it is still najis, but when it becomes flesh it is no longer najis. And the ahnaaf are not the only ones who take this position.

 

The examples are numerous and they extend beyond food: Yesterday a man was kaafir and going towards Hell, today he is Muslim, so what is the ruling upon him? It is based upon what he is today.

 

We must be careful when we call things haraam because it is a form of thulm (oppression). Scholars have said that it is worse that you make something halaal to haraam rather than making something haraam to halaal. This deen Allah has made yusr (easy) let us not make it 'usr (hard). Wallahu '"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a001.html#alim"]Alim[/url].

 

Was-Salaamu 'alaikum

 

abu suhaylah

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Assalamu aliakaum

 

Very interesting post, bro Abu Suhayla, jazakallhakhair.

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As-salaamu 'alaikum

 

I think Yahya Ibrahim (on another forum) posted this:

 

Qaa'idaat al-Istihlaak:

 

The fiqh rule is: ‘any change in the substance entails change in its ruling’.

 

The Hanafi Position:

 

In vol. 1, page 314, Hashiya ibn Abedin, Radd al Muhtar ala ad-durr al Mukhtar, a standard Hanafi fiqh text book, written by Muhammad Ala’a al Deen Al Hasafki, there are more than thirty purifying things mentioned by Al Hasafki (rendered into a poetry form to make it easy to memorize) . In one line he said, ‘and change of substanceâ€.

 

Ibn Abedin said, "The swine which drowns in a salt lake, after decomposition, becomes salt and thus halaal". Ibn Abedin based his comments on the saying of Al Hasafki regarding the manufacturing of vinegar made from wine. "According to the principle of change of substance, vinegar made of wine is lawful".

 

He then went on to say, "Vinegar made by mixing wine with water, according to the correct opinion, is pure"

 

One page 315, Al Hasafki has said that "soap made from impure oil is pure and can be used. Ibn Abedin, commenting on this said, "This is an example of change of substance". He then went on to quote a statement issued by Al Mugtaba which reinforced Al Hasafki’s view that pure soap could be derived from oil that was not pure. A similar position was reflected by Muhammad ibn Al Hasan, the second great pupil of Abu Hanifa.

 

According to Ibn Abedin, the fat of a dead animal, used to make soap is subject to the same conditions. The expression used was impure (najas) as opposed to mutanajjis which means to make impure. However, oil is usually used in preference to other fatty substances. However, reading Al Munyah, I found an explanation which supports the first view, he states, "If a man or dog falls into the container in which soap is being made, it remains pure".

 

Ibn Abedin goes on to say, "Know that a compound is deemed pure, and according to Muhammad ibn Al Hasan, from the rule which allows for change of substance". In addition, he adds that any product or substance, not only soap, can also be judged pure on account of its widespread use.

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One page 326, on the subject of change of substance, as if to reinforce the point, al Hasafki says that dust and smoke particles rising from burnt human or animal excrement cannot be judged impure. If it were, he says, then we would be forbidden to eat bread baked on fires in which such impurities were used as fuel. The same can be said for salt filtered from animal-contaminated lakes.

 

This, concludes Ibn Abedin, is how any product or substance is judged to be pure or otherwise. Muhammad Al Dakhira, Al Muhit and Abu Hanifa are all of the same opinion. Other sheikhs choose to follow this ruling as well. This is the chosen rule for the Shar’iah ruled that these things were impure in their nature. The reality of a thing changes with the change of some of its implied parts, not to mention all of them. Salt is totally different from meat and bones. If they become salt, they are salt. What is similar to that in the Shar’iah is the life-germ (sperm), the beginning of human life. From a Hanafi point of view it is impure, then it is turned into a clot, it is still impure, then it becomes a lump of flesh and at this point it becomes pure.

 

The same goes for wine juice. It is pure, when it becomes wine it becomes impure, but when it turns to vinegar, it becomes pure. This is as far as the Hanafi school is concerned."

 

I hope that is of some extra benefit inshallaah!

 

Was-Salaamu 'alaikum

 

abu suhaylah

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Salamaulaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakethu,

 

:D for that intresting post brother Abu- Suhayla. The explanation is quite logical - but why is it that the first thing you learn when you revert that gelatine is haraam. I don´t know any muslim who would accept eating gelatin. Even if i show them the proves. Just to be sure - does there exist an opposite opinion (because you said that the Hanafi schoolars followed the a.m. opinion) ?

 

It is very shocking to see that (taking what you´ve said is right) so many muslims follow the wrong path in such an small issue. What about even more complicated issues -do we also get so wrong information ? just a rethorical question.

 

wa alaikum salam

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As-salaamu alaykum

 

We are not to follow the majority of people just because they are the majority in a ruling. We look at the proofs and evidences and stick to the most correct opinions. That's why we take are ruling's from the Ulema not the people who go around to business depot making a thousand photocopies of some "haram/halal" list and handing it out.

 

Allahu "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a001.html#alim"]Alim[/url]

 

Jazak'Allah Khair for the posts, i hope it clears up alot of people's misconceptions(including mine).

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Salamaulaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakethu,

 

:j: for that intresting post brother Abu- Suhayla. The explanation is quite logical - but why is it that the first thing you learn when you revert that gelatine is haraam. I don´t know any muslim who would accept eating gelatin. Even if i show them the proves. Just to be sure - does there exist an opposite opinion (because you said that the Hanafi schoolars followed the a.m. opinion) ?

 

It is very shocking to see that (taking what you´ve said is right) so many muslims follow the wrong path in such an  small issue. What about  even more complicated issues -do we also get so  wrong information ? just a rethorical question.

 

wa alaikum salam

 

As-salaamu 'alaikum

 

Don't worry, I used to have my list of E numbers too, but if Muslims and the majority of them have incorrect beliefs about Allaah and issues pertaining to 'aqeedah then it is hardly a shock to see that they do on many other issues too. And Maybe the following link will answer some of your questions:

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16146&st=0&p=145129&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16146&st=0&p=145129&[/url]

 

Was-salaamu 'alaikum

 

abu suhaylah

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As-salaamu 'alaikum

 

Don't worry, I used to have my list of E numbers too, but if Muslims and the majority of them have incorrect beliefs about Allaah and issues pertaining to 'aqeedah then it is hardly a shock to see that they do on many other issues too. And Maybe the following link will answer some of your questions:

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16146&st=0&p=145129&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16146&st=0&p=145129&[/url]

 

Was-salaamu 'alaikum

 

abu suhaylah

Salamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

:D for the link.

wa aslaikum salam

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Assalamoalaykum...

 

Here is a quote from a muslim food scientist (from muslimconsumergroup#####

/ news section:)

 

Pork Gelatin used as a filter in Ribina soft drink:

 

There is lot of literature about how gelatin is made on internet. But we have to understand the basic biochemistry of gelatin raw material and gelatin itself. The basic components of collagen (raw material of gelatin) and gelatin is protein and amino acids. If the components of the raw material and finished product is same that mean the chemical reaction and processing does not cause any changes to the original component. Then it is not the case for Tabdeele Mahiya.

 

(a) If you run a DNA analysis (now days it use to detect pig by-products in a food product developed by a Florida company as mentioned on our web site) of Type A gelatin (pig) and Pig, you will find no difference. According to Tabdeele Mahiya, it should not match because the new product has to be different.

 

(b) What is gelatin, it is a derived water-soluble protein made by controlled hydrolytic conversion of collagen, the protein constituent of white fibrous connective tissue from animals. The manufacturing process will take out the extraneous material from bones, skin hide trimming. Neutralizing, washing and converting the collagen to gelatin occurs but the basic components remain the same.

 

© Extensive study have shown that the amino acid (basic component) content of white connective tissue whether from bone, skin or tendon is very uniform and yields gelatins also having uniform amino acid composition. This confirms no change has occurred in the basic components.

 

(d) The gelatin is subject to hydrolytic breakdown by which it is converted from insoluble macromolecular collagen to water soluble protein.

 

(e) The whole manufacturing process is based on purification and conversion of water insoluble collagen protein to water soluble gelatin. There is no new product and originality of gelatin raw material remains the same during manufacturing process.

 

Gelatin is not an example of Tabdeele Mahiya. Type A gelatin (pig) is Haram because it is still contain the original pig protein and amino acids.

 

Since pork gelatin filter is used in the manufacturing of Ribena soft drink and the soft drink is in a direct contact with a Najus material which is prohibited ingredient, the Ribena soft drink is considered a Haram soft drink.

--

 

However, do note that according to gmwa.uk food guide, only certain flavours of Ribena contain geletine, and the normal Blackcurrant flavour does not contain gelatine. But Allah Ta'ala knows if this is true or not.

 

BOTTOM LINE: Gelatine from PIGS and haram slaughtered cows is Haram, according to many, many Ulema, and even the little kids on the street know to avoid foods with gelatine in it. We should stay away from those flavours of Ribena which contain gelatine.

 

Wasalaam.

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Sugar alcohols are neither sugars noralcohols. They are carbohydrates with a chemical structure that partially resemblessugar and partially resembles alcohol, but they don't contain ethanol as alcoholicbeverages do. ... Most sugar alcohols are less sweet than sucrose; maltitol and xylitol are about as sweet as sucrose.

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