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Guantanamo Suspect Forced To Wear A Bra

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phillybob,

 

I don't care if you critisice everyone equally. I'm more concerned when you make an error about Islam - on an Islamic forum! I would feel much better if you asked questions (feel free) in the appropriate section(s) of the forum so you get a true picture before deciding whether you agree with it or not.

 

 

while this is spinning way off thread, are you meaning to tell me i can fly to riyhad tomorrow and go to church on sunday? and the women and gays? i don't need to ask about how they're treated. the world sees that clear enough. now lets try to stay on topic. i looked up to my right while writing this and i saw the header""guantanamo suspect forced to wear a bra." and i couldn't help to think how this is all so trivial and stupid. i really don't see all the hub-bub.

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PropellerAds

Because your not a Muslim and you cannot identify with these people locked up without trial or legal representation.

 

I have no doubt that your reaction would have been different if it was an innocent member of your family (or if it was you yourself).

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Because your not a Muslim and you cannot identify with these people locked up without trial or legal representation.

 

I have no doubt that your reaction would have been different if it was an innocent member of your family (or if it was you yourself).

 

 

not being represented has nothing to do with religion. illegal combattants of any religion are treated this way. this is the fate they chose. some of these guys travelled half way around the world to get to this war. what did they think would happen to them when they got caught? didn't their families think something bad could happen if their son packs up and goes to fight "the americans" illegal combattants are not afforded legal protection. when these jihadis get caught they sometimes have instuctions to claim abuse even though they are being treated humanely. this is an old war tactic. everyone is on to this game. some of the ones released have only been captured again. tell me if they're not "rolling the dice."packing up and going to war has a lot of ramifications. watching your son pack up and go to war has a lot of ramifications. to not have thought it out and then cry about it later just is a little too late.

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What makes you so sure that any of them are combatants?

 

See this is what I mean. You're just assuming they all are simply because that's what your government claims. The ones that were let out - why were they released? Is it reasonable to assume that more of them could be innocent? I think so. And to say that detainees are lying is not true as there has been proof of some torture going on whether it be physical or emotional.

 

If they are what you claim - bring formal charges against them, let them stand trial and start dealing with them. If not, let them go. It's simple.

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What makes you so sure that any of them are combatants?

 

See this is what I mean. You're just assuming they all are simply because that's what your government claims. The ones that were let out - why were they released? Is it reasonable to assume that more of them could be innocent? I think so. And to say that detainees are lying is not true as there has been proof of some torture going on whether it be physical or emotional.

 

If they are what you claim - bring formal charges against them, let them stand trial and start dealing with them. If not, let them go. It's simple.

 

 

who am i supposed to beleive? the n.y. times, al jazeera? you? while i can decide what stinks and what doesn't, i've done o.k. beleiving the government. i think the fact that some were released shows we aren't just locking people up nilly-willy. the return offenders should have obviously been screened better. and be careful of what you wish for . the geneva convention has very clear articles allowing the summary execution of hostile combattants not in uniform, using human shields surrendering and then firing...all of which goes on every day. a trial would be an extra courtesy not extended in wartime. this IS a war. it doesn't seem you understand the concepts of war. if this was wwII, most of these guys in gitmo would have been shot right on the battlefield. and we would have been totally within our legal and i feel, moral right to do so. the fact that these guys are still alive and one day see home again is a testament to our lenientcy.

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I don't think I can carry this on for much longer. I can't seem to follow your posts - it's as if you're just throwing a lot of random stuff together. I don't mean to offend you. I genuinely cannot understand your point.

 

I'll just try and address one or two things you said:

 

 

i think the fact that some were released shows we aren't just locking people up nilly-willy.
Nothing at all to do with pressure from the U.K.?

 

i've done o.k. beleiving the government
OK. Did you believe the government that ALL the detainees were illegal combatants BEFORE the UK residents were released? How did you feel AFTER they were released?

 

I'm interested in your answer to those questions.

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:D

 

This is PSYCHOLOGICAL torture!, it can leave mental scars on people!

 

May Allah Guide them, or Humiliate them in this world and the hereafter!

 

This is not a big deal for people because its 'normal' for them to dress up in women's underwear.

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I don't think I can carry this on for much longer. I can't seem to follow your posts - it's as if you're just throwing a lot of random stuff together. I don't mean to offend you. I genuinely cannot understand your point.

 

I'll just try and address one or two things you said:

Nothing at all to do with pressure from the U.K.?

 

OK. Did you believe the government that ALL the detainees were illegal combatants BEFORE the UK residents were released? How did you feel AFTER they were released?

 

I'm interested in your answer to those questions.

 

 

my point is, the vast majority of these guys are right where they need to be. are you saying none of these people should be held and we are mistaken on every one of them? did we make a few mistakes? sure. but we've taken great pains in detaining. more than any other country would, i'm sure. it isn't in our intrest to jail innocents. it's counter-productive. we could fill cuba up in a week if all we where intrested in was jailing people. the things that have happened to the gitmo prisoners is not near as bad as what could have happen to them. you don't understand that these guys are prisoners in a war. war is a bad thing. if you don't want to be a prisoner, don't fight. they should be thankful they are even alive. i hope i've boiled this down enough to be digested.

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did we make a few mistakes? sure.

 

That's the only relevant thing you've said in the whole post. The government made a mistake by detaining innocent people (for a number of YEARS) so you will agree with me then, that until there is some kind of trial or evidence produced to charge the rest of the prisoners, it's perfectly reasonable to assume there are more innocent people still inside.

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That's the only relevant thing you've said in the whole post. The government made a mistake by detaining innocent people (for a number of YEARS) so you will agree with me then, that until there is some kind of trial or evidence produced to charge the rest of the prisoners, it's perfectly reasonable to assume there are more innocent people still inside.

 

 

probably there are innocents inside. just like in any other prison. but like in any other, the wide majority are there for good reason. i think you'll agree detainig innocents is not in the u.s.'s best interest. as far as trials go. i don't know the u.s.'s plans, but as the rules of war are concerned, and that is loosely ( i won't get into the whole summery execution thing again), what is dictating their treatment, that would be considered very lenient. i think some of those guys have already been sentenced to life or at least specific terms by secret military tribunals and will be there for a long while. this has happened before in other wars but usually pertaining to executions only. this is well within military law, highly documented. that's only my opinion, i have no proof of that. like i said earlier, war is a bad thing. getting treated in ways you don't like are to be expected.

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That's the only relevant thing you've said in the whole post. The government made a mistake by detaining innocent people (for a number of YEARS) so you will agree with me then, that until there is some kind of trial or evidence produced to charge the rest of the prisoners, it's perfectly reasonable to assume there are more innocent people still inside.

 

 

if some were given fair trials, found innocent, and released you would feel happy, right? if some were given fair trials, found guilty and shot, would you still be happy they got a fair trial? fair trials not only free the innocent, they punish the guilty. would you be willing to abide by a guily verdict? this is what i meant earlier by "watch out what you wish for." as hard as it may seem to you,some of these mens fates could be much worse.

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If they get a fair trial and are convicted, I have no problem with that. Of course if they are proven to be innocent, I would be happy for their release, but still a little miffed for the several tears imprisonment.

 

By just leaving them and creating a humiliating and tortorous environment is just cruel.

Edited by Z-247

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By just leaving them and creating a humiliating and tortorous environment is just cruel.

 

 

i'm not sure the conditions there qualify as torturous. i have no problem dressing a guy up in victoria's secret if it gives me good info. to do it for laughs is wrong on a few levels. it's an affront to a noble institution, the armed services and counter-productive to the mission. but as a general rule, prisons are not pleasant places. some of the ones detained now may have already had a trial, been found guilty, and are seving their terms. we don't know because these things are done in secret as per regulations. i do know no one has been executed yet and i don't think any will be. so things could be worse for a lot of those guys. this may sound harsh but it's reality. a lot of those guy could've been shot right on the battlefield or where ever they were rounded up. so, put into context, a bra and panties isn't the end of the world. that's why war is a bad thing!

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:D

 

Phillybob... if the pow are found guilty of fighting the war against US, then the US govt. has every right to punish them in any way possible as long as it consistent with thier laws (which can include execution). But what the US is not allowed to do is put inncoent people in jail with trail forever... do thier trail, pass the judgement... punish them if they r guilty or let them loose if innocent.

 

But humiliating & toturing prisoners is not the right way especially since USA tries to BIG DADDY & tell other countries not to toture prisoners, it makes em look like hypocrites.. don't hep thier goals.

 

^^^

 

In my opinion, the above will apply to all parties involved in war...

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Guest amani
:D

:D subhan'Allah! may Allah grant him and those who are treated like he was and worse than him, patience. :D may Allah curse the people who did this to him(and may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon the prophet Muhammed and his family)

:D

 

:D

 

Thumma :D so bad!!!La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illah billah!

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:D

 

This is disgusting .. :D :D :D

 

May Allah guide those and grant the victim and his families, and the victims world wide patience.

 

:D

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What has been described in this article does not even meet the legal definition of physical torture, and is a far better fate than what most of Saddam's opponants met.

 

 

To a Muslim man it would be better to be tortured than to have to endure such humilating treatment. Especially the part about him having to expose himself infront of women. That made my blood boil.

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Hey Yank,

 

... No physical harm was actually done.

 

 

I think that's a problem in this country, the idea that if no physical harm occurs then it must be ok. Look at the Columbine shooters. They weren't beat up everyday. They were psychologically damaged. It's still not right and it's not ok to damage people in any way, including psychologically.

 

Peace,

AS

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the overreaction produced by this non-torture is quite telling.

 

What are we supposed to do, give them a nice hot bath every day and a 5-star meal?

 

Ridiculous. I wish the terrorists would treat their prisoners like the Americans did, instead of, I dont know, beheading them outright.

 

In WW2 if the newspapers publicized this as torture they would be laughed at. PoWs went through some REAL torture back then. This is ridiculous and it proves that people just want to hate America no matter what, and will find their convenient little excuses.

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Hey Yank,

I think that's a problem in this country, the idea that if no physical harm occurs then it must be ok.  Look at the Columbine shooters.  They weren't beat up everyday.  They were psychologically damaged.  It's still not right and it's not ok to damage people in any way, including psychologically.

 

Peace,

AS

 

 

If these hostile combatants have any mettle whatsoever, they can get over it. If wearing womens underwear and dancing makes you go crazy, you were probably going to go crazy in a couple of months anyway.

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If these hostile combatants have any mettle whatsoever, they can get over it. If wearing womens underwear and dancing makes you go crazy, you were probably going to go crazy in a couple of months anyway.

 

ha ha sounds like you have no problem wearing women's underwear! just playin man, you set yourself up :D

 

I know what you mean though about the clothing and dancing. It's just that when I hear their families honor is besmirched and they're called homosexuals it reminds of elementary school when kids were made fun of. These days our American children who get picked on come back to stab, shoot, and murder the students who did it. What do you expect of someone who trains to "fight the west" as we're told these people at gitmo have?

 

Peace out,

AS

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:D

 

... it makes em look like hypocrites.. don't hep thier goals.

 

which is why smart Americans protest this behavior. our media calls Muslim treatment of women barbaric or oppressive but it makes us look hypocritical because, on public radio, you can hear adverts for college girls to become strippers or bikini waittresses to earn money for school :D

 

:D

AS

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In WW2 if the newspapers publicized this as torture they would be laughed at.

 

You're probably right, we should just stop trying to make progress in the world and think about how beneficial the policies of the 50's were to humanity

 

:D ROFLMAO :D

 

Peace out cub scout,

AS

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:D

which is why smart Americans protest this behavior.  our media calls Muslim treatment of women barbaric or oppressive but it makes us look hypocritical because, on public radio, you can hear adverts for college girls to become strippers or bikini waittresses to earn money for school  :D

 

:D

AS

 

 

No one is forcing a college girl to become a stripper or bikini waitress. Thats the difference. Freedom of choice.

 

Under the Taliban, women couldn't vote, get a good education or wear anything other than a burqa outside. They had to go out of their own house covered in stifling cloth from head to toe.

 

In Saudi Arabia, a girls' school caught fire. The girls were dying and were trying to escape. But at the door, Saudi Morality Police wouldnt let the girls out of a burning building because some of them were "improperly" dressed.

 

In Nigeria, a woman accused of adultery was sentenced to death by stoning.

 

In Pakistan, a woman gang-raped by men of a different clan got no justice. In fact, her passport was revoked so she could not go abroad and speak about her experiences. Women in those areas are regularly raped as revenge for clan matters.

 

You really want to compare the treatment of women in the west with the treatment abroad?

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No one is forcing a college girl to become a stripper or bikini waitress. Thats the difference. Freedom of choice.

 

Under the Taliban, women couldn't vote, get a good education or wear anything other than a burqa outside. They had to go out of their own house covered in stifling cloth from head to toe. They COULDNT choose anything else, even if they wanted to.

 

In Saudi Arabia, a girls' school caught fire. The girls were dying and were trying to escape. But at the door, Saudi Morality Police wouldnt let the girls out of a burning building because some of them were "improperly" dressed. Many more died.

 

In Nigeria, a woman accused of adultery was sentenced to death by stoning.

 

In Pakistan, a woman gang-raped by men of a different clan got no justice. In fact, her passport was revoked so she could not go abroad and speak about her experiences. Women in those areas are regularly raped as revenge for clan matters.

 

You really want to compare the treatment of women in the west with the treatment abroad?

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