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Zaki Badawi Urge Women To Take Off The Hijab

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hmmm,

Dont think that women are just here for you to gaze at. We'd rather men to look at our minds and not our body's.

But you tell me wouldn't you love for your wife to be only for your eyes? and no other man could see the treasure you have. How precious she is.

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Peace be upon those who are rightfully guided.......

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, though. Surely men appear beautiful to women, and also arouse unhealthy feelings, or is it that men are not regarded as the chattels of their partners, to be enjoyed (admired visually in this case) only by them?

 

Any woman who is particular about covering herself so that she can protect her looks from people like logic bomb, will also be particular about enjoying the looks of just the men who have been made their Mahrams, i.e. their husband, sons, fathers, grandfathers etc.

 

I particularly enjoyed gawking at my grandfather (May Allah bless him with Jannatul Firdaus) He had the most beautiful and peaceful face I have ever seen, full of wisdom and peace. Then when I look at my little grandchildren, I see the beauty of innocence and purity. There is more to beauty than unhealthy feelings like you suggest.

 

Also I enjoy wearing my veil at all time Alhamdulillah it is not difficult at all during the summer or winter, because the benifits are tremendous compared to the a few inconveniences.

 

I sincerely suggest to Joker and logic bomb, that if you are here to criticize, then forget it, none of my Muslim brothers and sisters should waste their time. I have added these few lines hoping you will change your intentions from criticizing to learning. InshsaAllah if you want to learn, then welcome, may Allah increase your Islamic knowledge through the right sources, ameen.

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Nuns wear 'hijab' so what is the problem?

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Logic Bomb and Joker

 

Would you like to learn about Islaam?

I can't speak for Logic Bomb, so I prsume you meant to say 'Logic Bomb or Joker'...

 

I have no strong motivation to learn about Islam personally, I get on with the Muslims I know just fine. I do think that some British people could stand to know more about Islam and I want to encourage that. Ignorance, on both sides, is what al-Qa'ida thrives on.

 

The veil thing, and treatment of women in general, is a big issue with the average (non-Muslim) Brit, so I think it's worth discussing (not criticising), even if others think otherwise.

 

And women don't need to display skin to be noticed by me. I actually find a bit of mystery appealing, which is kind of ironic. This constant insinuation that men (all men) are so shallow is getting on my nerves, though ('unhealthy feelings', where did that come from?!). Lot of high horses around here that need dismounting from...

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Nuns wear 'hijab' so what is the problem?

Not all nuns...

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Joker and Logic Bomb, you may find this useful:

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=7864&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=7864&hl=[/url]

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Not all nuns...

 

If nun can cover themselves, then what is wrong with Muslim women? Again, due to majority of Muslims being non-white, it is assumed they are oppressed, etc.

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QUOTE(Joker [at] Jul 29 2005, 09:19 AM)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, though. Surely men appear beautiful to women, and also arouse unhealthy feelings, or is it that men are not regarded as the chattels of their partners, to be enjoyed (admired visually in this case) only by them?

 

 

Peace be upon those who are rightfully guided.....

 

 

Joker, this is where I got the unhealthy feelings thing from, it is in your own quote, check your words out, bye. just wanted to clear that bit, thats it for this thread from me. May Allah guide all on the right path of Islam, ameen.

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:D

 

I feel sorry for the women who are driven by insecurities, hidden behind make-up, in revealing garments which push the limits of modesty, clothes tailored to enhance their bodies and make them appealing to strangers. Victims of Fashion who have lost the right to call themselves intelligent.

 

 

 

:D Fortunate is the Muslimah who shows courage in this crowd of sheep. Unoppressed by Fashion, she shows none of their desires to be seen. Confident in herself, there is none to see her except Allah :D.

The strange man on the street is nothing to her, he steps aside.

 

 

And all praise is for Allah :D

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The veil thing, and treatment of women in general, is a big issue with the average (non-Muslim) Brit, so I think it's worth discussing (not criticising), even if others think otherwise.

 

And women don't need to display skin to be noticed by me. I actually find a bit of mystery appealing, which is kind of ironic. This constant insinuation that men (all men) are so shallow is getting on my nerves, though ('unhealthy feelings', where did that come from?!). Lot of high horses around here that need dismounting from...

 

Could you elaborate on the "treatment of women" part?

 

 

Sure, women don't need to be naked to be seen. Though what makes you think a stranger would want you drooling over her 'mysteries'? Ironically you're the one being shallow and needing seperation from your mount.

 

If a woman walks down the street and passes 100 men, how many will entertain unworthy thoughts about her? Think about it. This isn't just about you and how you control your thoughts. There're billions of other men out there, many of whom are victims of desire.

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As a non-Muslim, white, native US male, I always regard the women I see in hijab with admiration and respect. I honestly don't understand the flap over this. These women are living according to their truth and their faith, often in the face of outward hostility. That speaks to me of strength, not weakness and oppression.

 

This boils down to a simple matter of religous freedom, and a simple matter of giving the respect to others that you would expect from them.

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If nun can cover themselves, then what is wrong with Muslim women?  Again, due to majority of Muslims being non-white, it is assumed they are oppressed, etc.

In some Christian denominations, nuns (who have already chosen to be one step removed from other Christian women) can further pursue their vocation by becoming priests. They don't even have start off as nuns. How far do you want to take the analogy? Are there female imams?

 

And it's nothing to do with colour. I'm a little more wordly than that...

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QUOTE(Joker [at] Jul 29 2005, 09:19 AM)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, though. Surely men appear beautiful to women, and also arouse unhealthy feelings, or is it that men are not regarded as the chattels of their partners, to be enjoyed (admired visually in this case) only by them?

Peace be upon those who are rightfully guided.....

Joker, this is where I got the unhealthy feelings thing from, it is in your own quote, check your words out, bye.  just wanted to clear that bit, thats it for this thread from me.  May Allah guide all on the right path of Islam, ameen.

Darn, you got me :D Second time in ten years I've asked where someone got something they ascribed to me, only to find that I did say it...

 

In fairness, though, when I used those words, I was putting myself in the place of a Muslim, asking if the feelings a woman might experience at the sight of an uncovered man weren't equally as 'unhealthy' as everyone was implying that Logic Bomb's might be (a little unfairly, I thought). I still don't think I've had an adequate answer to that. Again, the implication seems to be that non-Muslim men are base animals, and Muslims can't take any chances. Non-Muslim women don't seem to figure at all. Are their 'unworthy thoughts' not a threat because they lack physical strength? Does anybody think they need to wrestle men to the floor to lead them astray?

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Could you elaborate on the "treatment of women" part?

Sure, women don't need to be naked to be seen. Though what makes you think a stranger would want you drooling over her 'mysteries'? Ironically you're the one being shallow and needing seperation from your mount.

 

If a woman walks down the street and passes 100 men, how many will entertain unworthy thoughts about her? Think about it. This isn't just about you and how you control your thoughts. There're billions of other men out there, many of whom are victims of desire.

And also billions of men like me who, I hope, would intercede if any of those men disrespected a Muslim woman, veiled or not. I would take her moral rectitude for granted, more so than I would another woman's. The latter might resent the implication that she couldn't handle herself. Islamic society is simpler in that regard, but sophistication is not always a bad thing.

 

But I definitely did not say 'drooling'. Are you telling me that there are not a range of styles for Muslim women, and that some don't walk the streets looking like a million dollars, however technically modest their get-up might be? I don't think my statement that I prefer women not to be too obvious warrants an accusation of 'drooling'. Quite the reverse. If you have a problem with the stylish Muslim dress sense that is clearly catered for in specialist shops, then fair enough. The shapeless tent effect it is, then.

 

As for the 'treatment of women', there are a range of misdemeanours that are associated with Islam. I believe I know better, but the rumours persist. Female circumcision, honour killings, forced marriages, polygyny, rape as a punishment in some backward Pakistani villages, the aforementioned girls who burned to death. That last one kind of was down to a rather extreme application of Islamic law, but there are a lot of misconceptions. I probably associate with more Muslim women (is there a single word that means 'Muslim women', because it's starting to sound repetitive..?) than most 'kaffirs', and without exception, they are well educated, confident and good-humoured. They probably rule the roost at home, too. Of course, I can't speak for the ones that don't get to leave the house as much as my aquaintances. Honestly, if you knew of a Muslim woman who suffered abuse, possibly even physical, at the hands of her husband, father or family, would you admit that such thngs happen?

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As a non-Muslim, white, native US male, I always regard the women I see in hijab with admiration and respect. I honestly don't understand the flap over this. These women are living according to their truth and their faith, often in the face of outward hostility. That speaks to me of strength, not weakness and oppression.

 

This boils down to a simple matter of religous freedom, and a simple matter of giving the respect to others that you would expect from them.

Respect is due, what I'm trying to establish is that a woman also has the right to go uncovered and not be thought less of a Muslim. Is she to be damned because men are, generally, men?

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Is it true that Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but Muslim women can't marry non-Muslim men?

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As a non-Muslim, white, native US male, I always regard the women I see in hijab with admiration and respect. I honestly don't understand the flap over this. These women are living according to their truth and their faith, often in the face of outward hostility. That speaks to me of strength, not weakness and oppression.

 

This boils down to a simple matter of religous freedom, and a simple matter of giving the respect to others that you would expect from them.

 

Salaam

 

Thank you, looks like somebody understands =)

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Is it true that Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but Muslim women can't marry non-Muslim men?

 

Salaam

 

This should be helpful

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16912"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16912[/url]

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As for the 'treatment of women', there are a range of misdemeanours that are associated with Islam. I believe I know better, but the rumours persist. Female circumcision, honour killings, forced marriages, polygyny, rape as a punishment in some backward Pakistani villages, the aforementioned girls who burned to death. That last one kind of was down to a rather extreme application of Islamic law, but there are a lot of misconceptions.

 

 

It's no matter, I guessed you would say something like this.

 

 

You can't do much for the ignorant, if they have no desire to learn.

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In some Christian denominations, nuns (who have already chosen to be one step removed from other Christian women) can further pursue their vocation by becoming priests. They don't even have start off as nuns. How far do you want to take the analogy? Are there female imams?

 

And it's nothing to do with colour. I'm a little more wordly than that...

 

The point is the nuns' hair and body is covered, they wear a religious dress.

 

It does have a lot to do with race, but I'm not bothered to explain it now.

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So I'm guessing it's permissible? That's beyond hypocritical. Though, I'm sure you have a good explanation. You're trying to "save" the non-Muslim woman, right? Since she's non-Muslim, she's obviously inferior and can't think for herself, so you need the Muslim man to run in and show her the right way to live.

Edited by Lateralus

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So I'm guessing it's permissible?  That's beyond hypocritical.  Though, I'm sure you have a good explanation.  You're trying to "save" the non-Muslim woman, right?  Since she's non-Muslim, she's obviously inferior and can't think for herself, so you need the Muslim man to run in and show her the right way to live.

 

what exactly are you talking about???? How can you even make these comments without first understanding the ruling behind it? Did you even have a look at that link the brother provided?

 

Anyway I think this is going way off topic now.

Edited by jk_89

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The objective is conversion. So a Muslim man will seduce a non-Muslim woman only to prosetylize. That's pretty sickening. Of course, you don't see it as sickening. That's just my opinion.

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The objective is conversion.  So a Muslim man will seduce a non-Muslim woman only to prosetylize.  That's pretty sickening.  Of course, you don't see it as sickening.  That's just my opinion.

 

No that is NOT the objective. I suggest you actually read up on this matter before you make such comments! And Muslim men do not 'seduce' women either!

What really is sickening is your attitude.

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It does have a lot to do with race, but I'm not bothered to explain it now.

Ah, you're bothered enough to accuse me of racism, but not bothered enough to back up your accusation?

 

Thanks for your participation...

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