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Odobknarf

Is Hell In Islam Eternal?

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:sl:

odobknarf, I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm going to be completely honest wih you...I don't think you have made a legitimate point at all. The reason Muslims do not question this, is because there is more evidence which suggests that Hell is eternal, opposed to Hell being limited. That's not to say Allah cannot take everyone out of the Fire.. no one is arguing this, because ofcourse He can. Just as He can also take everyone out of Paradise and into the Fire... but we cannot make assumptions like you are making.

AA brother,

 

First, I would like to thank you for your honesty. If we are to learn from each other and make progress towards understanding, it is very important that we express what we genuinely feel in a sincere and respectful way. So thank you once again for doing that.

 

It may very well be that you are right all along, and I am mistaken. If that is the case, I do not want to misguide anyone. As you can see, I am the first to admit when I am wrong and I am not shy to correct myself. So, if I am wrong, I would really appreciate your efforts to show me how I am wrong, so that I may improve myself.. I don't think you or anyone has truly done that. You have said "there is more evidence which suggests that Hell is eternal, opposed to Hell being limited." That may be true. I look forward to you providing this evidence, so that I may have a basis to change my opinion even more than I already have.

 

I think this is only one issue you haven't understood, and I expect to see more threads like this from you.

Yes, you are right. I try my best to base things on my understanding of them, and many times I may misunderstand them. And you probably will see more threads 'like this'. If I am wrong on future threads, it is my hope that Muslims like you will guide me to what is more correct. I only ask one thing, to give me reasons why I am wrong and reasons why another way is more correct. That's all I ask. Do you think my request is unreasonable?

 

I would like to ask you one question, do you pray the five obligatory prayers? If yes, how.

 

I hope you don't take my question the wrong way brother :sl:

 

I do not know why you are asking this question brother, because on the Day of Judgement, it is not you nor anyone else who will judge me; it will be God and God alone. And God has made it quite clear in the Qur'an to pray 5 times a day, and the hadith has shown us how. I admit I am not always successful, but I do try.

 

Peace.

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:sl:

 

I've took the time to look into the translation you are using and have written down a few verses for you... please refer to the verses using your own translation.

 

2: 167

 

The followers will say, 'If only we had one last chance, we would disown them as they now disown us.' In this way, God will make them see their deeds as a source of bitter regret: they shall not leave the Fire.

 

4:169

 

Except that of Hell, where they will remain forever - this is easy for God.

 

33:65

 

There they will stay permanently, with no one to befriend or support them.

 

72:23

 

...Whoever disobeys God and His Messenger will have Hell's Fire as his permanent home.

Edited by Muhammad Qadir

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:sl: Muhammad,

 

The Prophet added, "There will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: 'La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a barley grain. Then there will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: ' La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a wheat grain. Then there will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: 'La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant)." [sahih Bukhari]

 

This is where my confusion kicks in - It is affirmed that anyone with the kalima (la ilaha il-Allah) in their heart will ultimately be released from Jahannam. I have two questions I've come up with about it.

 

1. "There will come out of Hell everyone who says (in this life): 'la ilaha il-Allah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a barley grain...". Does this include non Muslim people who practice righteousness and believe in the unity of God while at the same time rejecting Muhammad (saas)? The passage doesn't mention anything about the blessed Prophet (saas).

 

2. In the Hadith as you've cited above, it is narrated that one who commits suicide shall be punished forever and ever. How is this so if this person was a believer, with 'la ilaha il-Allah' in his heart and good equal to the weight of an ant?

 

Inhs'Allah I'll have to consult my shaykh(s) and hear what they have to say. I am only a layman, my knowledge is a joke in comparison to the knowledge of our respected Ulema.

 

Wa' salaam

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:sl:

 

I don't think it would be right for me to try and answer this question brother. Ask your Sheikh inshaAllah and let us know his response :sl:

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Thanks for your input brothers.

 

Muhammad, I really enjoyed reading the hadith you provided; it rings true and has certainly got me thinking. But, as Joseph has pointed out, it does raise some questions that need to be answered - and like you, I look forward to what the scholars have to say.

 

I am aware of the verses from the Qur'an you provided, and the fact you took the extra effort to provide them from the very translation I am reading, does not escape my attention. These verses fall into bucket #2, where I sorted verses as they relate to this topic in 3 categories. I still have homework to do on that, because as I recall, you have asked me to provide you with verses for each, but especially for bucket #3. I have not forgotten and I will get back to you, inshallah. I believe you have now provided enough versus for bucket #2, so that category is pretty much taken care of. For convenience sake, I have listed the 3 categies below:

 

1. At least one verse that says "for a long, long, time",

2. Verses that say "forever" or "permanently".

3. Verses that say "on this day".

 

Joseph, Muhammad - if I may trouble you to find any other hadith on this subject, or any other related verses, along with clarifying the issue Joseph has raised, I would be very much obliged.

 

Peace.

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:sl:

 

I don't think even a scholar has the right to answer the question Joseph asked. Each case is different, and Allah will judge between us all. There is no straight "yes" or "no" answer to the question brother so it's best we don't get into this.

 

Brother please bare in mind that not everyone will stay in Hell forever. Those who are in eternal Fire will be the worst of the worst (Allah knows best). You have to also take into account that you are reading an English translation of the Quran so what your getting into here isn't a good idea... if you knew arabic fair enough.

 

We know this...

 

Some will stay in the Fire "for a long, long time".

Some will stay in the Fire "forever or permanently"

 

We already know this... so I agree with 1 and 2. They are not contradictions, there are no contradictions in the Quran. I still would like to see examples of them though.

 

As for 3, what you are saying does not make sense, the way you have interpreted such verses are wrong. If you read something which you think is contradicting, it means you haven't took the correct understanding to the verse.

 

We will continue this once you have found the verses inshaAllah :sl:

Edited by Muhammad Qadir

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As for 3, what you are saying does not make sense, the way you have interpreted such verses are wrong. If you read something which you think is contradicting, it means you haven't took the correct understanding to the verse.

We will continue this once you have found the verses inshaAllah :no:

I'm not saying the Qur'an ever contradicts itself. What I'm saying is that when the Qur'an says 'A day is like 1,000 years' at one place and at another it says '50,000 years', it means that the figures are not meant to be exact but are allegorical. If it was exact, then the Qur'an would be contradicting itself, but since it can't, it has to be allegorical. And another reason why it's allegorical is because it uses the word 'like' which automatically implies a comparison and not an exact figure.

 

Here are only some of the verses that fill in the 3rd category:

7:60

10:15

11:84

14:47-51

16:24-29, 111

19:85

20:127

21:47,101

22:9

22:47,55

23:63

24:23-26

25:12-19,69

28:40-41

30:12-16,56-57

32:5-6,29-30

36:64

37:33-39

39:15-16

40:16-17

45:33-35

46:20-21

50:20-35

51:13

52:45

54:5-8

70:11

74:8-10

76:7

78:17

83:12

83:33

88:2

89:23

4:136

65:162

81:15

6:160

98:50-51

 

You can look up the verses yourself, as there are too many to copy. What I want to point out is that in all cases, The Day of Judgement is referred to, with no mention of anything after this Day. To give you an idea, I have quoted 3 verses below:

 

37:33-39

 

"On that Day they will all share the torment: this is how we deal with the guilty...you will taste the painful torment, and be repaid only according to your deeds."

 

40:16-17

 

"the Day when they will come out...Today each soul will be rewarded for whatever it has done; today no injustice will be done. God is swift in reckoning."

 

45:34-35

 

"Today we shall ignore you just as you ignored your appointment with this Day...They will not be brought out of the Fire on that Day, nor will they be given the chance to make amends."

 

and 6:160

 

"whoever has done a good deed will have it ten times to his credit, but whoever has done a bad deed will be repaid only with its equivalent - they will not be wronged".

 

I really don't know how else to interpret 45:34-35 above except that after that Day, God is implying they will be let out of the Fire. Also, 6:160, God is showing His mercy is greater than his punishment. Since we live here for a certain amount of time, there is only so much evil you can really do in a lifetime. So when it says "whoever has done a bad deed will be repaid ony with its equivalent - they will not be wronged" combined with "they will not be brought out of the Fire on that Day". I mean I do have a mind you know, do you want me to stop using it just because everyone else says Hell is for forever?

 

Which brings me to another point, why is it that for the very Hadith you quoted, Joseph says:

:sl: Muhammad,

This is where my confusion kicks in - It is affirmed that anyone with the kalima (la ilaha il-Allah) in their heart will ultimately be released from Jahannam. I have two questions I've come up with about it.

 

1. "There will come out of Hell everyone who says (in this life): 'la ilaha il-Allah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a barley grain...". Does this include non Muslim people who practice righteousness and believe in the unity of God while at the same time rejecting Muhammad (saas)? The passage doesn't mention anything about the blessed Prophet (saas).

 

2. In the Hadith as you've cited above, it is narrated that one who commits suicide shall be punished forever and ever. How is this so if this person was a believer, with 'la ilaha il-Allah' in his heart and good equal to the weight of an ant?

 

Inhs'Allah I'll have to consult my shaykh(s) and hear what they have to say. I am only a layman, my knowledge is a joke in comparison to the knowledge of our respected Ulema.

 

Wa' salaam

 

You reply with:

 

:sl:

 

I don't think it would be right for me to try and answer this question brother. Ask your Sheikh inshaAllah and let us know his response :j:

 

But it's not okay for me to bring up the same issue, because you reply with:

 

I don't think even a scholar has the right to answer the question Joseph asked. Each case is different, and Allah will judge between us all. There is no straight "yes" or "no" answer to the question brother so it's best we don't get into this.

 

Now, I'm going to assume you are not treating me differently then you are yourself or Joseph, are you brother? I am going to assume that you had a change of mind on the subject matter from the time you responded to Joseph and reading my response, which was 14 hours later. Am I correct in my assumption?

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:sl:

 

I'm not saying the Qur'an ever contradicts itself. What I'm saying is that when the Qur'an says 'A day is like 1,000 years' at one place and at another it says '50,000 years', it means that the figures are not meant to be exact but are allegorical. If it was exact, then the Qur'an would be contradicting itself, but since it can't, it has to be allegorical. And another reason why it's allegorical is because it uses the word 'like' which automatically implies a comparison and not an exact figure.

 

I guess you are refering to these verses:

 

He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. [32:5]

 

The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years [70:4]

 

Brother I don't want to get into this because it's very confusing... a Day to Allah is 50,000 years, to us it is 1,000.

 

And this is the verse I use to back up that statement:

 

Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning. [22:47]

 

This is the way I have understood the verses, may Allah forgive me if I am wrong.

Edited by Muhammad Qadir

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:sl:

 

Now, I'm going to assume you are not treating me differently then you are yourself or Joseph, are you brother? I am going to assume that you had a change of mind on the subject matter from the time you responded to Joseph and reading my response, which was 14 hours later. Am I correct in my assumption?

 

This is not the case. I just feel that we are getting into dangerous territory and I don't want to say anything I will regret on the Day of Judgement.

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:sl:

 

I'll be honest with you brother odobknarf. I'm tired, this isn't getting anywhere. Even if I was to go through every single verse you wouldn't accept the truth.

 

If you want me to be completely honest with you... the translation you are using is rubbish. And doing some quick research on Muhammad Abdel Haleem, I can see why you are having difficulty because it seems he himself doesn't know what he is talking about. (you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1634517.stm)

 

37:33-39

 

"On that Day they will all share the torment: this is how we deal with the guilty...you will taste the painful torment, and be repaid only according to your deeds."

 

Translation:

 

037.032

YUSUFALI: "We led you astray: for truly we were ourselves astray."

PICKTHAL: Thus we misled you. Lo! we were (ourselves) astray.

SHAKIR: So we led you astray, for we ourselves were erring.

 

037.033

YUSUFALI: Truly, that Day, they will (all) share in the Penalty.

PICKTHAL: Then lo! this day they (both) are sharers in the doom.

SHAKIR: So they shall on that day be sharers in the chastisement one with another.

 

037.034

YUSUFALI: Verily that is how We shall deal with Sinners.

PICKTHAL: Lo! thus deal We with the guilty.

SHAKIR: Surely thus do We deal with the guilty.

 

037.035

YUSUFALI: For they, when they were told that there is no god except Allah, would puff themselves up with Pride,

PICKTHAL: For when it was said unto them, There is no Allah save Allah, they were scornful

SHAKIR: Surely they used to behave proudly when it was said to them: There is no god but Allah;

 

037.036

YUSUFALI: And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"

PICKTHAL: And said: Shall we forsake our gods for a mad poet?

SHAKIR: And to say: What! shall we indeed give up our gods for the sake of a mad poet?

 

037.037

YUSUFALI: Nay! he has come with the (very) Truth, and he confirms (the Message of) the messengers (before him).

PICKTHAL: Nay, but he brought the Truth, and he confirmed those sent (before him).

SHAKIR: Nay: he has come with the truth and verified the messengers.

 

037.038

YUSUFALI: Ye shall indeed taste of the Grievous Penalty;-

PICKTHAL: Lo! (now) verily ye taste the painful doom -

SHAKIR: Most surely you will taste the painful punishment.

 

037.039

YUSUFALI: But it will be no more than the retribution of (the Evil) that ye have wrought;-

PICKTHAL: Ye are requited naught save what ye did -

SHAKIR: And you shall not be rewarded except (for) what you did.

 

40:16-17

 

"the Day when they will come out...Today each soul will be rewarded for whatever it has done; today no injustice will be done. God is swift in reckoning."

 

Translation:

 

040.016

YUSUFALI: The Day whereon they will (all) come forth: not a single thing concerning them is hidden from Allah. Whose will be the dominion that Day?" That of Allah, the One the Irresistible!

PICKTHAL: The day when they come forth, nothing of them being hidden from Allah. Whose is the Sovereignty this day? It is Allah's, the One, the Almighty.

SHAKIR: (Of) the day when they shall come forth, nothing concerning them remains hidden to Allah. To whom belongs the kingdom this day? To Allah, the One, the Subduer (of all).

 

040.017

YUSUFALI: That Day will every soul be requited for what it earned; no injustice will there be that Day, for Allah is Swift in taking account.

PICKTHAL: This day is each soul requited that which it hath earned; no wrong (is done) this day. Lo! Allah is swift at reckoning.

SHAKIR: This day every soul shall be rewarded for what it has earned; no injustice (shall be done) this day; surely Allah is quick in reckoning.

 

45:34-35

 

"Today we shall ignore you just as you ignored your appointment with this Day...They will not be brought out of the Fire on that Day, nor will they be given the chance to make amends."

 

045.034

YUSUFALI: It will also be said: "This Day We will forget you as ye forgot the meeting of this Day of yours! and your abode is the Fire, and no helpers have ye!

PICKTHAL: And it will be said: This day We forget you, even as ye forgot the meeting of this your day; and your habitation is the Fire, and there is none to help you.

SHAKIR: And it shall be said: Today We forsake you as you neglected the meeting of this day of yours and your abode is the fire, and there are not for you any helpers:

 

045.035

YUSUFALI: "This, because ye used to take the Signs of Allah in jest, and the life of the world deceived you:" (From) that Day, therefore, they shall not be taken out thence, nor shall they be received into Grace.

PICKTHAL: This, forasmuch as ye made the revelations of Allah a jest, and the life of the world beguiled you. Therefor this day they come not forth from thence, nor can they make amends.

SHAKIR: That is because you took the communications of Allah for a jest and the life of this world deceived you. So on that day they shall not be brought forth from it, nor shall they be granted goodwill.

 

and 6:160

 

"whoever has done a good deed will have it ten times to his credit, but whoever has done a bad deed will be repaid only with its equivalent - they will not be wronged".

 

Translation:

 

006.160

YUSUFALI: He that doeth good shall have ten times as much to his credit: He that doeth evil shall only be recompensed according to his evil: no wrong shall be done unto (any of) them.

PICKTHAL: Whoso bringeth a good deed will receive tenfold the like thereof, while whoso bringeth an ill-deed will be awarded but the like thereof; and they will not be wronged.

SHAKIR: Whoever brings a good deed, he shall have ten like it, and whoever brings an evil deed, he shall be recompensed only with the like of it, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.

 

Not a SINGLE verse here says what you are implying - not a SINGLE one. The "Day" is the DAY OF JUDGMENT. The DAY we will all be JUDGED. On that DAY you will either be sentenced to LIFE in HELL, or LIFE in PARADISE. This is why there is so much emphasis on "The Day". Our entire lives are leading up to this DAY, The DAY OF JUDGMENT.

Edited by Muhammad Qadir

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:sl:

 

I honestly don't know why I am continuing this, because I have given you more than enough on this matter.

 

You are suggesting that punishment is restricted to the "Day". Then why does Allah (Subhanhu Wa Ta'ala) use the same terminology when addressing those who will enter Paradise?

 

"I have rewarded them this Day for their patience and constancy: they are indeed the ones that have achieved Bliss..." [23:111]

 

My devotees! no fear shall be on you that Day, nor shall ye grieve [43:68]

 

One Day shalt thou see the believing men and the believing women- how their Light runs forward before them and by their right hands: (their greeting will be): "Good News for you this Day! Gardens beneath which flow rivers! to dwell therein for aye! This is indeed the highest Achievement!" [57:12]

 

Therefore if you are suggesting Hell is restricted to this yawm (Day) you are suggesting that so is Paradise.

 

Brother, I am going to end this with one verse which should be sufficient, and I'm not going to waste any more of my time. If you cannot see this, I have tried my best.

 

Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in all that they do [36:55]

 

If Hell is limited to this Day as you are suggesting, then it the same must apply for Paradise.

Edited by Muhammad Qadir

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:sl:

If you want me to be completely honest with you... the translation you are using is rubbish. And doing some quick research on Muhammad Abdel Haleem, I can see why you are having difficulty because it seems he himself doesn't know what he is talking about. (you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1634517.stm)

037.032

YUSUFALI: "We led you astray: for truly we were ourselves astray."

PICKTHAL: Thus we misled you. Lo! we were (ourselves) astray.

SHAKIR: So we led you astray, for we ourselves were erring.

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Not a SINGLE verse here says what you are implying - not a SINGLE one. The "Day" is the DAY OF JUDGMENT. The DAY we will all be JUDGED. On that DAY you will either be sentenced to LIFE in HELL, or LIFE in PARADISE. This is why there is so much emphasis on "The Day". Our entire lives are leading up to this DAY, The DAY OF JUDGMENT.

 

You've made a lot of assertions, but shown nothing except support my position. The only thing Yusuf Ali, Pickthal and Shakir are showing in all the comparative translations is exactly what I've already concluded: They all say the same thing, except Abdel Haleem actually says it in English we can understand.

 

Every single verse that I referenced above speaks only of the Day of Judgement, and not a single verse says "on the Day of Judgement and afterwards." You can pretend otherwise, but that won't change the facts. You may want to believe something else because it makes you feel good...but that won't change the reality of what the translations say...but that's up to you.

 

You haven't addressed or countered my analysis with your own...you just quoted verses upon verses, that I supplied to you in the first place with 3 other translators, who are saying the same thing.

 

As far as heaven being for a Day, yes that's true. The Qur'an is well known to balance Heaven and Hell, Good and Evil, Male and Female, etc. But remember one thing...God says when he talks about heaven "an unceasing gift", and he does not say about hell "an unceasing punishment". A point I've made earlier and restating again.

 

There really is no point in discussing this further because you just say whatever you want regardless of what the verses say.

 

My conclusion remains, "Allah knows best" and we cannot definitively say whether it is eternal or for a limited time.

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My conclusion remains, "Allah knows best" and we cannot definitively say whether it is eternal or for a limited time.

 

It can be both, if a day in hell is a 1000 years then that is like an eternity for us but limited to a day. So what ever time you get in hell it will be like an eternity with a time limit. but really whou wants to be in hell for even a second. Also the dy of judgment is also translated as the day of religion the day of paying up the debt if we look at these meanings then we can get more out of what Allah is saying to us and not just be stuck on is hell forever or not thats up to Allah to deciede and he gave mention in the Quran like you have pointed out now if someone else cant see that then leave them with their veil over their eyes till Allah removes it. But lets get the best out of the Quran

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My conclusion remains, "Allah knows best" and we cannot definitively say whether it is eternal or for a limited time.

 

It can be both, if a day in hell is a 1000 years then that is like an eternity for us but limited to a day. So what ever time you get in hell it will be like an eternity with a time limit. but really whou wants to be in hell for even a second. Also the dy of judgment is also translated as the day of religion the day of paying up the debt if we look at these meanings then we can get more out of what Allah is saying to us and not just be stuck on is hell forever or not thats up to Allah to deciede and he gave mention in the Quran like you have pointed out now if someone else cant see that then leave them with their veil over their eyes till Allah removes it. But lets get the best out of the Quran

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You need to be more careful about what you say. You are now saying that "Allah knows best" however if indeed Hell is eternal, then you have called Allah an oppressor.

 

QUOTE(Insignia of Islam [at] Jan 31 2008, 01:19 PM)

"O My slaves, I have forbidden Myself oppression and I have made it between you forbidden, so do not oppress one another." Muslim

 

Is it not the greatest oppression to punish a human with an infinite hell (which is the worst torture in existence) for finite/limited sins? Just the concept of eternal punishment is disgusting: sustaining the existence of a creature indefinitely just to make it feel pain.

 

I couldn't agree with you more...which is why I had to resolve this issue first, before I became a muslim; which in my mind, I have.

 

This is the difference between me and you, I judge according to that which Allah has revealed whereas your making it up as you go along. Only a fool tries to interpret the Quran who does not know arabic, or have sufficient knowledge. I'll be keeping an eye on you.

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Assalamu Alaykum

 

1. "Eternity" according to my dictionary means something that neither has a beginning nor an end. Therefore, only Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is eternal because he exists without beginning and end.

 

2. The place of hellfire is permament without ceasing.

 

3. The punishment in hellfire can be temporal or permanent which depends on in what state a person died and on the Mercy of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala:

 

1. The first group of people who enter hellfire are the disbelievers, which are the rejectors of truth. The message was conveyed to them but they rejected. They in general remain in hellfire permanently. They include all types of mushrikeen and atheists. But also those who do not follow the prophets and those who despise angels. Those who discontinue salah are also risking permanent punishment in hell. However, I leave the final decision to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

 

2. The second group who enter hellfire are the hypocrites. They receive the worst punishment in hell because they are in the hottest regions of hell which is at the bottom of hellfire. They remain there permanently.

 

3. The third group who enter hellfire or are at least afflicted by the fire of hell are the Believing Sinners. They receive punishment in hellfire as form of punification from sin. They generally remain there for a temporal time, but then are given clemency to leave.

 

As a reminder, I would like to tell you that the human soul is created for infinite amount of time. It has a beginning but does not have an end. I don't know that exact term form something that has a beginning but not an end. The human soul is immortal.

 

I am searching for some ayat and hadeeth right now. It may take a while though. I try to find the relevant information and before I post it here I first try to understand it myself.

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Hell will never cease to exist and neither will its people

 

Question:

Allaah threatens the kaafirs and atheists with Hell, “they will abide therein for ages†[al-Naba’ 78:23]. Will their torment in the Fire continue forever, and if so, doesn’t that contradict Allaah’s justice and mercy? Or will their punishment last for ages the length of which is known to Allaah, and if so, what will their fate be after that, is there any reference to that in the Qur’aan or Sunnah?

 

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

 

What Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah believe is that Hell will never cease to exist or be extinguished, and no one will be brought forth from it except the sinners among the people of Tawheed. As for the kuffaar and atheists, they will abide therein forever.

 

Imaam Ibn Hazm said in his book Maraatib al-Ijmaa’: “Hell is real; it is an abode of torment that will never cease to exist, and its people will never cease to exist, they will remain there without end.â€

 

And he said in his book al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal: “All the sects of the ummah are agreed that Paradise and its delights will never cease to exist, and that Hell and its torments will never cease to exist, except for al-Jahm ibn Safwaan, Abu’l-Hudhayl al-‘Allaaf and some of the Raafidis. As for Jahm, he said that Paradise and Hell will cease to exist, as will their people. Abu’l-Hudhayl said that Paradise and Hell will not cease to exist, and neither will their people, but their movements will cease and they will remain immobile, never moving, and their people will be alive, being blessed or tormented. And that group of Raafidis said that the people of Paradise will come out of Paradise, and the people of Hell will come out of Hell, to wherever Allaah wants to take them.â€

 

(al-Fasl 4/154, Dar al-Jeel edition)

 

Al-Tahhaawi said in his ‘Aqeedah: “Paradise and Hell are two created entities that will never cease to exist or come to an end.â€

 

There is a great deal of evidence in the Qur’aan and Sunnah to confirm this belief. For example, Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

 

“They will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom; and theirs will be a lasting tormentâ€

 

[al-Maa'idah 5:37]

 

“(The torment) will not be lightened for them, and they will be plunged into destruction with deep regrets, sorrows and in despair thereinâ€

 

[al-Zukhruf 43:75]

 

“Their reward with their Lord is ‘Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow. They will abide therein foreverâ€

 

[al-Bayyinah 98:8]

 

“No sense of fatigue shall touch them, nor shall they (ever) be asked to leave it [Paradise]â€

 

[al-Hijr 15:48]

 

“And they will never get out of the Fireâ€

 

[al-Baqarah 2:167]

 

“and they will not enter Paradise until the camel goes through the eye of the needleâ€

 

[al-A’raaf 7:40]

 

“Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!â€

 

[Faatir 35:36]

 

In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Death will come on the Day of Resurrection like a black and white ram, and it will stand between Paradise and Hell. It will be said, ‘O people of Paradise, do you recognize this?’ They will crane their necks and look, and will say, ‘Yes, it is death.’

 

It will be said, ‘O people of Hell, do you recognize this?’ They will crane their necks and look, and will say, ‘Yes, it is death.’ Then the command will be issued and it will be slaughtered. Then it will be said, ‘O People of Paradise, it is eternal and there is no death. O people of Hell, it is eternal and there is no death.’†Then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) recited the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“And warn them (O Muhammad) of the Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe notâ€

 

[Maryam 19:39]

 

(Narrated by Muslim, 5087, from the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri)

 

This clear saheeh text leaves no room for doubt concerning this matter, which is that the people of Hell will abide therein forever, and will not die or come out, just as the people of Paradise will abide therein forever.

 

The commentator of al-Tahhaawiyyah said: “Many reports of the Sunnah indicate that those who said Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah will be brought forth from Hell. The ahaadeeth about intercession clearly indicate that the sinners among the people of Tawheed will be brought forth from Hell and that this applies only to them; if the kuffaar were to be brought forth from it, they would be like the believers, and that contradicts the exclusiveness indicated in the hadeeth.â€

 

(Sharh al-Tahhaawiyyah, p. 430, al-Maktab al-Islami edition).

 

With regard to the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“They will abide therein for ages [ahqaab].

 

Nothing cool shall they taste therein, nor any drink.

 

Except boiling water, and dirty wound dischargesâ€

 

[al-Naba’ 78:23-25]

 

what is meant, as al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, is “They will stay in the Fire for as long as those ages last, and these ages will never cease. Every time one age ceases, another will come. Huqub means a lifetime or an age, and (the plural) ahqaab means ages. Hiqbah means a year, the plural of which is hiqab. Huqb means eighty years, or it was said that it means more than that, as we shall see, and the plural is ahqaab. The meaning in this verse is that they will abide therein for the ages of the Hereafter, to which there is no end. The verse does not specifically mention the Hereafter (by saying “the ages of the Hereafterâ€) because it is clear that the context here is speaking of the Hereafter. It is like saying the days of the Hereafter, days after days, without end. If it was referring to time it would have mentioned a specific length of time, such as five ages or ten ages, etc. The word ahqaab/huqub is used because that was the longest period of time according to the Arabs, so they would understand that. It is a metaphor for eternity, i.e., that they would abide therein forever. And it was said that ages (ahqaab) were mentioned rather than days because ahqaab is more indicative of eternity. These meaning are very similar.

 

This eternal abiding is for the mushrikeen. The verse may also be interpreted as referring to the sinners who will be brought forth from Hell after these ages have passed.

 

And it was said that ahqaab refers to the time when they will drink the hameem (boiling water) and ghasaaq (dirty wound discharges). When that comes to an end they will have another kind of punishment. Hence Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

‘They will abide therein for ages [ahqaab].

 

Nothing cool shall they taste therein, nor any drink.

 

Except boiling water, and dirty wound discharges’

 

[al-Naba’ 78:23-25].â€

 

(From Tafseer al-Qurtubi)

 

With regard to the aayah:

 

“As for those who are wretched, they will be in the Fire, sighing in a high and low tone.

 

They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord wills. Verily, your Lord is the Doer of whatsoever He intends (or wills).â€

 

[Hood 11:106-107 – interpretation of the meaning]

 

Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) mentioned in his Tafseer eleven scholarly opinions, all of which indicate that the kuffaar will abide forever in Hell. One of these opinions states that the exception applies only to the sinners among the believers, who will be brought forth from Hell after some time. On this basis, the phrase ‘As for those who are wretched’ is general and applies to both kaafirs and sinners, and the exception refers to the word ‘khaalideena [translated here as dwell therein for all the time]’. In al-Saheeh it is narrated that Anas ibn Maalik said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Some people will enter Hell, then when they are like ashes, they will be brought forth from it and admitted to Paradise, and it will be said, ‘These are the Jahannamiyyeen (the hellish ones).’â€

 

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6896).

 

Another view is that illa (except) here [ in the phrase translated as They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord wills] means siwa (apart from), as in the phrase ma ma’i rajulun illa Zayd (there is no man with me apart from Zayd). So the meaning here is: so long as the heavens and the earth endure, apart from (or in addition to) the eternity which Allaah wills they should abide therein.

 

We have refrained from quoting all the opinions here for the sake of brevity, but the reader may benefit from referring to them.

 

Hence we may note that the teaching of the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and scholarly consensus (ijmaa’), that Hell and its people will remain forever, is not contradicted by any clear saheeh text of the Book of Allaah or the Sunnah of His Messenger, or by any report from the Sahaabah and Taabi’een.

 

So this is the answer to your question, “Or will their punishment last for ages the length of which is known to Allaah, and if so, what will their fate be after that, is there any reference to that in the Qur’aan or Sunnah?â€

 

We may add here that in the texts that we have quoted and in others that we have not mentioned, there is evidence to confirm the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah in this matter. The fact that the texts do not say anything about their fate after those ages proves what we have mentioned, that those ages will not come to an end. May Allaah protect us and you from that.

 

There is nothing in what we have mentioned that contradicts the mercy and justice of Allaah. Rather this is what is implied by His justice and mercy, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“But those who disbelieve (in the Oneness of Allaah — Islamic Monotheism), for them will be the fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!

 

Therein they will cry: ‘Our Lord! Bring us out, we shall do righteous good deeds, not (the evil deeds) that we used to do.’ (Allaah will reply:) ‘Did We not give you lives long enough, so that whosoever would receive admonition could receive it? And the warner came to you. So taste you (the evil of your deeds). For the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there is no helper.’â€

 

[Faatir 35:36-37]

 

“Verily, the Mujrimoon (criminals, sinners, disbelievers) will be in the torment of Hell to abide therein forever.

 

(The torment) will not be lightened for them, and they will be plunged into destruction with deep regrets, sorrows and in despair therein.

 

We wronged them not, but they were the Zaalimoon (polytheists, wrongdoers).

 

And they will cry: ‘O Malik (Keeper of Hell)! Let your Lord make an end of us’ He will say: ‘Verily, you shall abide forever.’

 

Indeed We have brought the truth (Muhammad with the Qur’aan) to you, but most of you have a hatred for the truthâ€

 

[al-Zukhruf 43:74-78]

 

“Shall We then treat the Muslims (believers of Islamic Monotheism, doers of righteous deeds) like the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and disbelievers)?

 

What is the matter with you? How judge you?â€

 

[al-Qalam 68:34-35]

 

“Or do those who earn evil deeds think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe (in the Oneness of Allaah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, in their present life and after their death? Worst is the judgement that they make.

 

And Allaah has created the heavens and the earth with truth, in order that each person may be recompensed what he has earned, and they will not be wrongedâ€

 

[al-Jaathiyah 43:21-22]

 

“To Him is the return of all of you. The Promise of Allaah is true. It is He Who begins the creation and then will repeat it, that He may reward with justice those who believed and did deeds of righteousness. But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieveâ€

 

[Yoonus 10:4]

 

Whoever ponders these blessed verses will be certain that Allaah is All-Wise, All-Knowing, Most Merciful, and He does not wrong any soul in the slightest. Your Lord is not unjust towards His slaves and

 

“He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questionedâ€

[al-Anbiya’ 21:23 – interpretation of the meaning]

 

And Allaah knows best.

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The reason I have given you the time of day is because I don't want your innovative way of thinking to catch on, and I thought you came here looking for the truth. Yet you come here insulting the teachings of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wassallam, insulting the scholars of Islam - who do you think you are exactly?

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“Their reward with their Lord is ‘Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow. They will abide therein foreverâ€

 

 

 

Brother the reward is with Allah who is ever lasting forever, eternity suggests that hell will last as long as Allah , Subanalah Allah is the everlasting and if our reward is with him then we will be with the God who is everlasting Paradise is not everlasting Allah is everlasting and that is who the righteous will be with and that is the true paradise. Now hell canot be everlasting for this is a quality of Allah and there is nothing like Allah. To say that hell is forever is putting somthing that Allah created with the same attribute as Allah, NO Allah is forever hell has a begining and an end and to give something that Allah created one of His atributes is shrik!!! Allah is the eternity no other he is forever everything else has an ending but if we are with Allah like he promised us then we would be with the everlasting GOD.

 

The reason I have given you the time of day is because I don't want your innovative way of thinking to catch on, and I thought you came here looking for the truth. Yet you come here insulting the teachings of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wassallam, insulting the scholars of Islam - who do you think you are exactly?

 

 

No this is wrong brother we should be like bee keepers when we come together to discuss matters of the Quran, every brother and sister is like a bee hive and we should be trying to extract that honey from each other rather than getting stung from each other lets have shura and talk to each other in respectable terms or else we would never rise and Allah ill not be with our thinking only shaton would enjoy our negativity. asa lets be mu'min

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Assalamu Alaykum

 

Hellfire and Paradise exist everlasting because Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala wills so. It is His Will. They don't exist on their own, but through Allah's Leave.

 

Human beings are created to exist everlasting, not a temporal time. There will be no moment when a human soul ceases to exist. This is by Allah's Leave.

 

Salam

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Salamz

What I gather from this thread so far is that the actual duration of punishment in hell is still vague, time is relative and God's math can be real confusing especially to some one who got a D in calculus anyways :sl:

However..

It's obvious that Hell is a pretty bad neighborhood thus 1 day or eternity both seem a pretty bad deal for non believers..thus the plight of hell recruits also creates a dilemma for merciful entity which is trying to be justice and peachy and all.

 

but here is my angle.

 

What is exactly meant by kafireen?

No, it's not cheesy hear me out :j:

I was doing some research on the word and ....Kaffir seems to be some one who rejects true faith/god/The Truth ....after acknowledging it to be true.

Emphasiz on acknowledging it to be true. :no:

In other words this definition doesn't include Atheists, tards, ignorant, Morons (like myslef perhaps :D ) or those who weren't exposed to "right deen/ true faith".

In more...other words ...a subjective (emic) perspective is involved here.

That's bcaz something may be true (from Objective/etic view) but If I don't understand it to be true due to lack of rationale or available brain cells (subjective/emic view)...it will not convince me nor make me a kaffir.

And you guys thought Johnny Cochran was good :sl:

Perhaps then the only qualified individuals are the ones who say...

"God, I hear you..I know what u want of us..I acknowledge your message and consider it to be true..but you know what, It cramps my style to do what you ask, praying being good and conservative. Its all boring and painful stuff ....besides devil is much cooler and fun with all the partying and drinking, having fun...So I'll choos ehim over you and if you got beef then.. bring it!...light tha furnace..etc etc..........etc.

I mean I doubt if some one is that dumb but I've been wrong b4 :D

 

So yea If some one know, that simple rejection of true faith minus intention, also qualifies for one way trip to hell then please clarify..

 

Peace

Edited by llogical

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Brother the reward is with Allah who is ever lasting forever, eternity suggests that hell will last as long as Allah , Subanalah Allah is the everlasting and if our reward is with him then we will be with the God who is everlasting Paradise is not everlasting Allah is everlasting and that is who the righteous will be with and that is the true paradise. Now hell canot be everlasting for this is a quality of Allah and there is nothing like Allah. To say that hell is forever is putting somthing that Allah created with the same attribute as Allah, NO Allah is forever hell has a begining and an end and to give something that Allah created one of His atributes is shrik!!! Allah is the eternity no other he is forever everything else has an ending but if we are with Allah like he promised us then we would be with the everlasting GOD.

 

:sl:

 

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, and makes no sense whatsoever. Also, no one has said Hell never had a beginning, please show me where anyone said this.

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:sl:

 

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, and makes no sense whatsoever. Also, no one has said Hell never had a beginning, please show me where anyone said this.

 

It has everything to do with the topic, it sonds like you want to argue with your own brother instead of looking at what is said you form your opinion automaticly and are ready to argue. I never said that anyone said that hell doesent have a beginning all i was saying was that Allah is eternal no begining no end and hell cannot be like Allah

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:sl:

 

It's not my intention to argue with anyone. I recall you saying that Allah has put a veil over my eyes - I guess this applies for every single scholar of Islam since they share the same opinion... or maybe it is you in fact who has a veil over your eyes... I guess you wouldn't be able to answer that since you wouldn't know if that was the case.

 

eternity suggests that hell will last as long as Allah.....

 

You are twisting things, I don't know if you are doing this intentionally or just don't think before you speak, but that's what you're doing.

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