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Bid'ah Section?

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:D

 

well..coming from a pakistani background...

 

ive come to know that some things the pakistani culture practice is a bid'ah...

 

so i was wondering..if a bid'ah section could be made...for member and guests who may have questions, issues etc...so its easier to find topics..

 

hmm anyhow..its just a suggestion

 

Jazak Allah khairun

 

:D

Edited by SevenEightSix

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We need to see what exactly comes under bid'ah. Because we can end up saying bidah to things which are not even bidah. Does anyone knows any good articles explaining about topic of bidah.

 

Edit: Sorry, didnt realise that this topic was in a comments & suggestion section. Yes, I would say its a good idea to have a section about bidah.

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We need to see what exactly comes under bid'ah. Because we can end up saying bidah to things which are not even bidah. Does anyone knows any good articles explaining about topic of bidah.

 

Edit: Sorry, didnt realise that this topic was in a comments & suggestion section. Yes, I would say its a good idea to have a section about bidah.

 

Asalaam Alaikum,

 

I would discourage a seperate section on Bidah.

 

Not because to stifle free speech.

 

But because people will abuse this.

 

Of course discuss bidah, but start a topic in the advanced Islamic discussion section?

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i dont like this idea, this issue is might get out of hand, we are not scholars althgouh i think some of members are very knowladgble in Islam. disscusion is fine but to dedicate a whole section of the forum? no not good idea.

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It's hard to get the message across to ignorant people so i dont think it will be of benefit

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Assalamu alaikum

 

Every forum needs a bid'ah section.

 

The best advice would be to stick to the scholars who quote from the authentic sunnah and warn against bid'ah and who stand firm in their aqeedah.

 

If you still need help you should post your questions in the plethora of bid'ah threads in the advanced Islamic section. I'm sure someone will look at it.

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IT would be good to have this section but only if We stick to the Moderate Islamic scholars and not the hardliners who outlaw everything as Bida and who will end up scaring ppl away from Islam instead of calling them to it .

 

allahul Musta'aan .

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Moderate Islamic scholars

 

:D

 

Like who Akhi ?? Zaki Badawi ?? or Hamzah Yusuf ??

 

Both scholars for dollars

 

Akhi we cannot change the Deen just to suit todays society, Islam should be practised same way it was practised 1400 years ago, that means Bid'a free

Edited by kandahari

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Brothers, please have some respect for the scholars.

 

At least respect them for the fact that they are more knowledgeable than you are.

 

Anyhow, I'm not for having such a section.

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Anything but hardline akhi , we need to propogate The Ummah Al wasatiya We really are .

 

Allah SWT has told Prophet Muhammad Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã in the Quran :

 

159 It was by that Mercy of Allah that you (Prophet Muhammad) dealt so leniently with them. Had you been harsh and hard-hearted, they would have surely deserted you. Therefore, pardon them and ask forgiveness for them. Take counsel with them in the matter and when you are resolved, put your trust in Allah. Allah loves those who trust.

 

Surat Al Imran .

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Assalam alaikum

 

Yes and let us not forget Allah also says in the Qur'aan: “Indeed in the Messenger of Allah, you have an excellent example to follow for him, who hopes in (the meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much†[(33): 21]

 

Islaam is easy and simple, and to gain Allah’s approval we have to stick to Qur’aan and Sunnah with out adding to it and subtracting from it.

Every time we do an action we have to check if our Intention is purely for the sake of Allah and to see if that action is in accordance to the Sunnah of Muhammad (pbuh).

 

So we should follow the scholars who advise us to hold tight to his Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Righteous Caliphs so that we don’t go astray. As this is what the Prophet saaws and the companions did.

 

A great example is the following on how the Prophet saaws dealt with bidah:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: A group of three men came to the houses of the wives of the Prophet asking how the Prophet worshipped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, they considered their worship insufficient and said, "Where are we from the Prophet as his past and future sins have been forgiven." Then one of them said, "I will offer the prayer throughout the night forever." The other said, "I will fast throughout the year and will not break my fast." The third said, "I will keep away from the women and will not marry forever." Allah's Apostle came to them and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more submissive to Allah and more afraid of Him than you; yet I fast and break my fast, I do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my tradition (i.e. Sunnah) in religion, is not from me (not one of my followers)." [sahih Bukharee, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 1]

 

And there are many good examples from the Salaf and how they dealt with bidah.

Narrated by ibn Waddaah in ‘Al-Bid’ wa’l-Nahy anhaa’ from al-Salt ibn Bahraam who said:

“Ibn Mas’ood (radee Allaahu ‘anhu) passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said:

'You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified Bid’ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (sall-Allaahu alayhi wa sallam)'.â€

[its isnaad is Saheeh to as-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Tabi'een]

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Islaam is easy and simple, and to gain Allah’s approval we have to stick to Qur’aan and Sunnah with out adding to it and subtracting from it.

 

Very well said the Quran and sunnah and the salaf and not modern day scholars calling everything bida .

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Brothers, please have some respect for the scholars.

 

At least respect them for the fact that they are more knowledgeable than you are.

 

Anyhow, I'm not for having such a section.

 

:D

 

Respect for Hamza Yusuf who called the 9/11 non muslim firefighters shaheed ??

These are he's words "If there are any martyrs in this affair it would certainly be those brave firefighters and police that went in there to save human lives and in that process lost their own"

You can read the rest here (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_soundvision(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/info/terrorism/hamza.asp"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_soundvision(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/info/terrorism/hamza.asp[/url]

 

Respect for Zaki Badawi who issued a Fatwa that women should take off the Hijab??

 

Theres a whole section on this topic on this which i started

 

Dont think so mate..

 

Ikhwaan Islam is in Black and white, Halal is clear and Haram is clear, i dont understand what your trying to say ?? Shall we make something which is Bid'a acceptable just to give Dawah ??

Edited by kandahari

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Yes akhi and seeing oneself as self rightoues and rightly guided is the doorway to arrogance .

 

I think I have to agree that this forum will not work becuase the Bida's that will be posted will be posted by One Manhaj of Islam that see themselves as rightly guided and all others as innovators , and this is not acceptable .

 

allahul Musta'aan .

Edited by Al Faqeer

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Yes akhi and seeing oneself as self rightoues and rightly guided is the doorway to arrogance .

 

:D

 

AKhi now your being personal, im not calling my self rightly guided. all im trying to say is that we cannot compromise the deen for anything, The prophet SAWS told us quite clear that anything newly invented in the deen is innovation and will be rejected by Allah, so how can we do or act on something which was not practised by the Prophet SAWS or his companions who were the best of generations

Edited by kandahari

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Assalamu alaikum

 

Golden Quote of the day

 

Imaam Malik rah. reportedly said "Whosoever introduces into Islaam an innovation, which he deems is good, then he has claimed that Muhammad has betrayed (the trust of conveying) the Message. Read the saying of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic: 'This day I have completed your Religion for you, and I have perfected My favour upon you, and I am pleased with Islaam as a Religion for you.' [surat-ul-Maa'idah: 3] So whatever was not (part of) the Religion on that day, is not (part of) the Religion on this day. And the last part of this ummah (nation) will not be rectified, except by that which its first part was rectified by."

Edited by panIslamist

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Thats In general akhi nothing personal .

 

the Hadith from Miskhat Shareef in which the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã said "Whosoever introduces a new belief in our religion which contradicts with it is rejected." He also said "Beware of innovations, for every innovation (Kullu Bid'at) is misguidance." But there is another hadith from the same book which is in favor of good innovations, thus a Hadith in Miskhat under Babul-I'lm says: "He who sets a good precedent in Islam, there is reward for him for this (act of goodness) and a reward for him also who acts according to it subsequently, without any deduction from their rewards and he who sets in Islam an evil precedent there is upon him the burden of that, and the burden of him also who acts upon it subsequently, without any deduction from their burdens." From this Hadith we see that to introduce a nice way in Islam which is in accordance with the Holy Quran and Sunnah will induce rewards and to do vice versa will provoke punishment.

 

the modern day hardliners have sidelined the second hadeeth for some strange reason akhi .

 

Our religion is an easy and moderate one akhi , We need to call people to Islam and talk to them as if they are babies , and not stand with a stick and hit Bida :D into their brains the hard way .

 

think about it .

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Assalamu alaikum

 

Regarding the hadeeth above.

 

The hadith is reported by Imam Muslim, on the authority of Jabir bin Abdullah:

A group of people came from a certain town and the hunger was apparent on their faces so when the Prophet (s) saw them his face color changed out of extreme sympathy for them. He ordered Bilal to make (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a000.html#adhaan"]adhaan[/url], then the iqamah was made, the he prayed and afterwards began to speak to the people. He began extolling the virtues of sadaqah and the one who gives it, until one of the Ansar went home and came back with his arms full of items he wished to donate. The people the began to follow his example, each going home and coming back with their donations. The Prophet's face then lit up and he said the words above....

 

Did the Ansari invent the concept of sadaqah? No.

Did the Ansari invent the manner in which he gave the sadaqah? No.

 

In any case, there is a reply that no one should have a problem with - that the meaning of, "Whoever enacts a sunnah ..." is, 'Whoever revives a sunnah that was present and then was lost.' Therefore it means that a matter has been revived, and thus in this way "... enacting a sunnah ..."is relative and secondary just as (in the case of 'Umar, where his use of) the word bid'ah (innovation) was relative and secondary in the sense that it involved the revival of a sunnah that had been abandoned.

 

It is like a woman who moves to a country or city where hijab is not common and she wears it - although she is not the originater of that act of worship nor is the manner in which she wears it different, it is the fact that she revived a little known sunnah which causes her to be called by the people 'the one who set a precedent'.

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Thats In general akhi nothing personal .

 

the  Hadith from Miskhat Shareef in which the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã  said "Whosoever introduces a new belief in our religion which contradicts with it is rejected."  He also said "Beware of innovations, for every innovation (Kullu Bid'at) is misguidance."  But there is another hadith from the same book which is in favor of good innovations, thus a Hadith in Miskhat under Babul-I'lm says: "He who sets a good precedent in Islam, there is reward for him for this (act of goodness) and a reward for him also who acts according to it subsequently, without any deduction from their rewards and he who sets in Islam an evil precedent there is upon him the burden of that, and the burden of him also who acts upon it subsequently, without any deduction from their burdens." From this Hadith we see that to introduce a nice way in Islam which is in accordance with the Holy Quran and Sunnah will induce rewards and to do vice versa will provoke punishment.

 

the modern day hardliners have sidelined the second hadeeth for some strange reason akhi .

 

Our religion is an easy and moderate one akhi , We need to call people to Islam and talk to them as if they are babies , and not stand with a stick and hit Bida :D into their brains the hard way .

 

think about it .

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Assalamu alaikum

 

Imaam Ash-Shaatibi, may Allaah have mercy upon him, answered those who attempt to use this Hadeeth as evidence of the permissibility of innovating by saying: "Using this Hadeeth as an evidence (to innovate) implies that different evidences ((www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a000.html#ahadith"]Ahaadeeth[/url]) contradict one another (because in other Ahadeeth, the Prophet saaws unequivocally warned against innovating)." Then he said: "The context of this Hadeeth is that it was said in a situation where charity was being given, and charity is something already legislated."

 

The proof of this is actually to be found in the very same Hadeeth, if you were to read it all, as Jareer Ibn 'Abdullaah Al-Bujali, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: "We were with the Prophet saaws (in the Masjid) just after dawn one day when some people entered barefooted and clad in woollen matting (or covered with sleeveless woollen blankets) with their swords hung around their necks. Most of them belonged to the tribe of Mudhar. The face of the Prophet saaws turned pale due to their wretched condition. Then, the Prophet saaws went into his house, re-emerged and commanded Bilaal to call the (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a000.html#adhaan"]Adhaan[/url], and the Iqaamah and then he saaws led the prayer. After the prayer, the Prophet saaws stood up and addressed people saying (that which translates as): “O mankind! Fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allaah, through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allaah is ever, over you, an Observer." (An-Nisaa’: 1) “O you who have believed! Fear Allaah. And let every soul look to what it has put forth for tomorrow – and fear Allaah. Indeed, Allaah is Acquainted with what you do.†(Al-Hashr: 18). Then, the Prophet saaws said: “Give in charity from (what you possess of) Deenaars (gold coins) Dirhams (silver coins) a Saa’ (a small measure of weight) of wheat or even a Saa’ of dates.†until he saaws said: “Give, even if it as little as half a date†Thereupon, a man from the Ansaar (residents of Madeenah) came with a bag of food which was so heavy that it was difficult for him to carry. Thereafter, people came successively until I saw two huge piles of food and clothes, and the Prophet’s face was bright as a glittering golden coin (due to his happiness). Then the Messenger saaws said: “Whoever introduces a good practice in Islaam will get the reward of performing it and that of all those who perform it until the Day of Resurrection; Whoever introduces a bad practice in Islaam will get the punishment of performing it and that of all those who do it until the Day of Resurrection.â€" (Muslim).

 

Therefore, it is obvious that this Hadeeth refers to deeds that are already legislated and proven to already exist in the religion, which in this case was charity given by a certain companion of the Prophet saaws.

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Imam Nawawi said in Sahih Muslim (6-21), "The Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã saying â€Ëevery innovation is a general-particular and it is a reference to most innovations. The linguists say,Innovation is any act done without a previous pattern, and it is of five different kinds." Imam Nawawi also said in Tahzeeb al Asma wal Sifaat, "Innovation in religious law is to originate anything which did not exist during the time of the Prophet (s), and it is divided into good and bad." He also said, "Al-muhdathat (pl. for muhdatha) is to originate something that has no roots in religious law. In the tradition of religious law it is called innovation, and if it has an origin within the religious law, then it is not innovation. Innovation in religious law is disagreeable, unlike in the language where everything that has been originated without a previous pattern is called innovation regardless of whether it is good or bad."

 

Sultan al-`ulama, Al `Izz bin Abdus Salam said, at the end of his book, Al Qawa'id"Innovation is divided into obligatory, forbidden, recommended, disagreeable and permissible, and the way to know which is which is to match it against the religious law."

Were we to rule that every new act that has come into being after the first century of Islam is an innovation of misguidance without considering whether it entails benefit or harm, it would invalidate a large share of the fundamental bases of Sacred Law as well as those rulings established by analogical reasoning, and would narrow and limit the Sacred Laws vast and comprehensive scope. (Adilla Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama'a, 145-47).

Edited by Al Faqeer

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Hmm...well i think it's about time this topic closes or gets moved...

 

i would not agree to a bidah section because then many people will bring different things into the bidah category...

 

to the following discussion that came into progress, i will say that i only think soething is a bidah when you believe it to be a fardh or waajib or a part of deen...

 

by the way, the QUran was not in book form at the time of the Prophet :D so it is a bidah...we have to understand that there is such a thing as a bidat hasanaa. if we only did what Rasulullah :D sis and reject everything else then many things we do would be bidah..

 

ps. from Abu Hajirah "just as we as non (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/glossary/glossary_a001.html#alim"]alim[/url] cannot even decide between the scholars, i think it is baseless to put a bidah section where we will discuss the pros and cons of certain supposedly bidah..lets not confuse the mass people, and keep Islam simple.

 

:D

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