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If God Is So Powerful...

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Sali al nabi brother inara, the longer the post the less likely anyone is going to read it. try to sum things up a little for the sake of the less knowlegable among us and for those who dont have a lot of time.

********said respectfully**********

I agree,interesting topic but not sure if I should read the posts or do my term paper.

peace :D

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PropellerAds

:D

 

 

Well, I herd a sheikh answer this question. In short he said the answer lies in His :D attributes. A creator creates, just will do justice, and so on…

 

 

Couldn’t give a more precise answer.

 

and Allah :D knows best

 

W/salaam

Edited by noxiouspython

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if god was proven to me, i would either yield in surrender, or if i had the honour i hope i possess, do what is right, and rebel.

 

i will never bend my knee willing to anything, not person or diety. because hell is better than submission.

 

fortunately for me, this question doesnt realistically arise since i see no reason to believe in such things.

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i will never bend my knee willing to anything, not person or diety. because hell is better than submission.

 

What a coincidence, this is the same choice Satan made. [Kneel or go to hell?….emmmm, I think I’ll go to hell]

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if god was proven to me, i would either yield in surrender, or if i had the honour i hope i possess, do what is right, and rebel.

 

i will never bend my knee willing to anything, not person or diety. because hell is better than submission.

 

fortunately for me, this question doesnt realistically arise since i see no reason to believe in such things.

 

 

Umm prove god to u ay? k (gets to researching)

 

I would like u to read to works of (William Paley) (Blaise Pascal) and (Jhon Hick).

Also please read the works of (Rene Discartes) about "How do we aquire Knowledge".

 

If I have time, I will provide my own work.

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pascal said it's in your best interest to believe in god just incase he exists-->not a proof of gods existence

 

I've read detailed versions of descartes meditations. His proof of gods existence was based completely on circular logic. The man believed in god even before he started rationalizing it and this was the result. Another invalid proof of gods existence.

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i will never bend my knee willing to anything, not person or diety. because hell is better than submission.

 

Wow..your ego is bigger than common sense... :D

If God really did exist, To me it would be logical to surrender.... but that's surrendering out of fear not respect.

This way I can atleast avoid hell and cook something up with the devil to overthrow God.

 

Thus, the essential purpose for which humankind was created is the worship of God. However, the Almighty is not in need of human worship. He did not create human beings out of a need on His part. If not a single human worshipped God, it would not diminish His glory in any way, and if all of humankind worshipped Him, it would not increase His glory in any way. God is perfect. He alone exists without any needs. All created beings have needs. Consequently, it is humankind that needs to worship God.

I must comment on this not to annoy but to seek the reason....

If god is all powerful..If he created me to worship him, I can choose not to..This is why free will and omnipotance are not compatible. God can than perish me or punish me but in this world atleast such God is powerless against my will.This again contradicts either freewill (which I do have) Or omnipotence....how will you get around this?? :D

 

 

(Long live Kratos)

Edited by llogical

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I must comment on this not to annoy but to seek the reason....

If god is all powerful..If he created me to worship him, I can choose not to..This is why free will and omnipotance are not compatible. God can than perish me or punish me but in this world atleast such God is powerless against my will.This again contradicts either freewill (which I do have) Or omnipotence....how will you get around this??

 

81,29

And you do not will except that Allah will, the Lord of the worlds.

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And you do not will except that Allah will, the Lord of the worlds.

I didn't get it :D

Are you saying that we have no free will?

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I didn't get it :D

Are you saying that we have no free will?

Looks like that to me, too llogical.

 

If we have no free will, then god created us nonbelievers just to punish us in eternal torment.

 

... I don't know if I can properly finish this thought without breaking a forum rule. :D

 

I'll leave it at that for now.

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Looks like that to me, too llogical.

 

If we have no free will, then god created us nonbelievers just to punish us in eternal torment.

 

... I don't know if I can properly finish this thought without breaking a forum rule. :D

 

I'll leave it at that for now.

what about later??? :D

Not sure about about every one, but mods are cool and can see the difference between

conversation and slander. If not, than I would have been banned long time ago :D

So u were saying...( no i'm not setting u up :D )

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what about later??? :D

Not sure about about every one, but mods are cool and can see the difference between

conversation and slander. If not, than I would have been banned long time ago :D

So u were saying...( no i'm not setting u up :D )

Peace Ilogical :D

 

I don't think you're setting me up for anything. I'm just still a bit confused about the forum rules, and what is allowed and what is not.

 

Well, in the spirit of sharing and in trying to understand one another's points of view, I will continue. Apologies to those who may be offended -- that is not my intention.

 

I think that if there were an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity who created everything, and knew all that was to happen, required worship, and knew that many millions of people that he created would ultimately not believe in him, and then sends them to eternal, neverending torture for being exactly what he made them to be, then that deity is ultimately evil. That deity would be so evil that I could not in good conscience ever, ever worship that deity, if it existed.

 

I hope I have worded that in such a way that none take offense. If someone has, I apologise, but my words still stand.

 

In peace, as always. :D

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Peace Ilogical :D

 

I don't think you're setting me up for anything. I'm just still a bit confused about the forum rules, and what is allowed and what is not.

 

Well, in the spirit of sharing and in trying to understand one another's points of view, I will continue. Apologies to those who may be offended -- that is not my intention.

 

I think that if there were an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity who created everything, and knew all that was to happen, required worship, and knew that many millions of people that he created would ultimately not believe in him, and then sends them to eternal, neverending torture for being exactly what he made them to be, then that deity is ultimately evil. That deity would be so evil that I could not in good conscience ever, ever worship that deity, if it existed.

 

I hope I have worded that in such a way that none take offense. If someone has, I apologise, but my words still stand.

 

In peace, as always. :D

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nearlygood(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]dev.gif[/url]

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for arguments sake id rather live believing in God and the hereafter and die to find out that neither exist than live denying the existence of God and the hereafter and then die to find out i was wrong. why? in the first case i have everything to gain and nothing to lose in the second case i have nothing to gain and everything to lose. :D

 

i will never bend my knee willing to anything, not person or diety. because hell is better than submission.

 

lololol understand that hell is not a sauna :D

 

anyway true worship is not when one worships because of the fear of hell or the hope of paradise but when one worships out of love for God and out of the belief that He is worthy of worship.

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(Long live Kratos)

 

Haha, the "M" rated greek character who overthrough the God of War, I finished that game yesterday, its just a game Illogical, Allah can not be overthrown with or without a Pandora's Box.

 

Allah created us to see which of us had the best of action.

 

Allah knew which people would rebel and which people would obey, but He let them choose so.

 

Its like someone telling you the ending of a movie before you watch it. The Character is left to make these choices, he was never forced, yet those actions will never change, they will be as they are. Allah did not make you worship Him, nor did He make you disbelieve. I mean we could have all been angels, or we could have all been Shaydaans.

 

We have been created out of Allah's divine mercy, blessing and wisdom. We have been created for a test period, sometimes one day sometimes 60 years, sometimes a 100. In the end, we have all chosen to be saved or to be damned.

 

Right now, Illogical, if you chose to believe and return to Islam is there anything stopping you? Nothing. Except yourself, your Ego, your desires and your free will.

 

Salamu Alaikaum

 

P.S.

And you do not will except that Allah will, the Lord of the worlds.

 

Oh what is meant by that is- "His guidance is open to all who have the WILL to profit by it. But that will must be excercised in conformity with Allah's WILL. Such Conformity is Islam"

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for arguments sake id rather live believing in God and the hereafter and die to find out that neither exist than live denying the existence of God and the hereafter and then die to find out i was wrong.
anyway true worship is not when one worships because of the fear of hell or the hope of paradise but when one worships out of love for God and out of the belief that He is worthy of worship.

Well it's kind of a contradiction now isn't it?

 

Haha, the "M" rated greek character who overthrough the God of War, I finished that game yesterday, its just a game Illogical, Allah can not be overthrown with or without a Pandora's Box

:D LOL..Yeah u the 1st 1 to notice....

But Kratos has nothing to do with the choice I made....Logic did.

And free will + determination are not compatible.

 

Quran says that "we will what God wills...."

So even If I wanted to be muslim, I can't change my will unless God wills....who is stopping me?...God is stopping me according to Quran...

Besides ..what's my motivation??? If God does exists, I do not like him according to my understanding. If I do not undertsand him than it's not my fault since I tried my best and maybe he casted that darkness veil thing over me. And lastly If I change anyways to be safe than sorry than I am not a true muslim...In order to submit to god I NEED to understand him. But IF in order to understand him I NEED to Submit to him, we are caght up in endless cycle."Gods of OLympus has abandoned me but I won't cast myslef from no mountain." :D

 

So I may not have Pandora's box or blades of chaos but I have my free will which hypothetically is something that the God himself can't forcibly change.

peace

 

Long Live Kratos.

:D

Edited by llogical

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So I may not have Pandora's box or blades of chaos but I have my free will which hypothetically is something that the God himself can't forcibly change.

peace

 

Long Live Kratos.

 

Lol, I have the blades of Athena, no more red light, they shine white now. The Gods of Olympus are weak, they were killed. Allah cannot be killed. and technically your free will can be changed instantly. Allah has ALLOWED us to have free will. If Allah didn't want us to move our right hand, we will never move our right hand again!

 

Kratos was abanodoned by his "Gods"

 

Allah has not abandoned you save that you have forgotten Him first. Those who have a veil and are blind deaf and dumb are the ones who have chosen to be like that. Illogical, is there anything stopping you form saying La ilaha Ilalla right now, I want you to try it. Say "There is no god but Allah". Nothing is stopping you. You have chosen to abandon Islam, and you have chosen to be cast into darkness. The you do not will except that Allah wills is like a restriction, you cannot will past Allah's will. You cannot grow wings and fly because Allah does not let you. Plain and simple. In the Qur'an it says Allah has not forbidden the people to believe.

 

Salamu Alaikum

 

P.S.Honestly, Illogical, by reading your post, All I can say is that you have damned yourself, If you seek to understand Allah, Allah will make it easy. Many people seek Allah before they submit to Him. For starters, look up His 99 names. If you tried your best you wouldn't be in the state of Kufr. Your motivation is not spending eternity in a bottomless pit of black fire, and chilling in Heaven. Most of all your motivation is realizing that Allah is pleased with you. You can make yourself sick, but you cannot cure yourself. See if the universe will come to your aid when you are on your deathbed.

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Lol, I have the blades of Athena, no more red light, they shine white now. The Gods of Olympus are weak, they were killed. Allah cannot be killed. and technically your free will can be changed instantly. Allah has ALLOWED us to have free will. If Allah didn't want us to move our right hand, we will never move our right hand again.

:D yeah blades of Athena are same as chaos, just a different name..

About God... One thing about God I do understand is that we can't know him. To say than that he can not be killed is than just as irrational as saying that he can be killed. He did create freewill..OK.. but at least in this world than he is powerless against our free will. He could doesn't mean he would.

Kratos was abanodoned by his "Gods"

 

Allah has not abandoned you save that you have forgotten Him first. Those who have a veil and are blind deaf and dumb are the ones who have chosen to be like that. Illogical, is there anything stopping you form saying La ilaha Ilalla right now, I want you to try it. Say "There is no god but Allah". Nothing is stopping you. You have chosen to abandon Islam, and you have chosen to be cast into darkness. The you do not will except that Allah wills is like a restriction, you cannot will past Allah's will. You cannot grow wings and fly because Allah does not let you. Plain and simple. In the Qur'an it says Allah has not forbidden the people to believe.

 

 

It's a typical line of thought for me to assume that I am responsible for my own ignorance.

Everytime a line of religious thought fails logically, we are to be sent on a guilt trip so we can blame ourselves and not question the perfectness of beliefs. I left Islam because I came to understand it's limitations and double standards.I saw the basis for human reasoning deskied in "Divine Reasoning". God's word, God's plan can't be so imperefect if he's perefct... (at least to me). when I get sick, God doesn't buy me tylenol, I do myself, my family does it, people do...now please don't say that God created them or guided them such. Sure I can't grow wings but that's because it's a physical impossibility...theology is just reasoning and intellectual reality not a physical reality like myself.

Rationally, speaking...the schema of God is not Logical... analytically or synthetically.

Salamu Alaikum

 

P.S.Honestly, Illogical, by reading your post, All I can say is that you have damned yourself, If you seek to understand Allah, Allah will make it easy. Many people seek Allah before they submit to Him. For starters, look up His 99 names. If you tried your best you wouldn't be in the state of Kufr. Your motivation is not spending eternity in a bottomless pit of black fire, and chilling in Heaven. Most of all your motivation is realizing that Allah is pleased with you. You can make yourself sick, but you cannot cure yourself. See if the universe will come to your aid when you are on your deathbed.

 

Ws

Lol dammed? why would I be the enemy of myself? :D

I already tried what u presribed to no avail. the 99 names, most of them are already circulating my head. I remember Al rahman, Alrahim but also Al Qahar Al Mumit. If God is everything that we know...and beyond what we can know...than that's also plain fact that I can't know him. If he's extremely good than he is also extremely bad, why would out block out the second fact. He created Devil, he made him bad..if it's for my own good than I must first understand it to be true. If it's something beyond my understanding than I am not liable. If this is a test than I don't like it, I want to drop the course. If i can't than that's not good since I am being forced to take this "bad'' test.

I know it'ss it because of Satan and the bet (I see why betting is haram). Besides why couldn't God just smack satan silly to his doom for being an apostate ...and let us all live in heaven.( subliminal message: don't question God)

 

I see inconsistencies with God's plan. Why did he sent 4 books to get it right, he knew that the first three would fail. His wisdom is superior to human ignorance. Why not send Quran the first time and with Adam. Why is Quran difficult to understand. If it's not than why do people interpret it differently. If they are stupid than why make it easier like layman's terms. If mathematics, something created by humans is so easy that everyone can understand it the same way than..that why Isn't quran such. I mean no one argues that 2+2=4. THE WORLD (given sanity) agrees to that including the people with the blindness veil. Why expect less than perfection from God. Maybe he did it deliberately...well that's not fair to stupid people like myself and how's that Good.

Wow... I sound like JadaKiss with all them YYs but I do feel abandoned by "God".

I know that You will say that human demands can be endless and I can always be unhappy with God no ,matter how nice he is, But there is a reasonable thresh hold beyond which I know my demands are unreaosnable. Besides God with his infinite powers can forfill every one of my wish even if it collides with someone else's counter wish since he is GOD..Capable of all things.

 

(p.s in G.O.W...did u beat challenge of the Gods..it unlocks some weird costumes for Kratos)

peace :D

Edited by llogical

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Peace to you alim_in_training. I really enjoy your thoughtful posts. :D

 

Allah has not abandoned you save that you have forgotten Him first. Those who have a veil and are blind deaf and dumb are the ones who have chosen to be like that. Illogical, is there anything stopping you form saying La ilaha Ilalla right now, I want you to try it. Say "There is no god but Allah". Nothing is stopping you. You have chosen to abandon Islam, and you have chosen to be cast into darkness. The you do not will except that Allah wills is like a restriction, you cannot will past Allah's will. You cannot grow wings and fly because Allah does not let you. Plain and simple. In the Qur'an it says Allah has not forbidden the people to believe.

Erm... not meaning to be rude, but I just said that about 10 times. I tried again holding my Qur'an.

 

The thing is, I could say it all day long, but I don't feel it.

 

Allah must not want me to believe. :D

 

Peace.

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yeah blades of Athena are same as chaos, just a different name..

About God... One thing about God I do understand is that we can't know him. To say than that he can not be killed is than just as irrational as saying that he can be killed. He did create freewill..OK.. but at least in this world than he is powerless against our free will. He could doesn't mean he would.

 

Actually, if you read the Qur'an you learn a lot about Allah. I referred the 99 names because that is the best way to know Allah quickly. I mean if He says those are His names, and those are His Attributes, what do you need better than that? Allah is never powerless against anything, nontheless our free will. Our free will is the same that is given to a lab rat, you allow it to roam around to see what it does, but you keep it in the maze, restricted, by laws and nature. Allah has given us much more than a Lab rat, He has given us infinite blessings to use on our journey through the maze.

 

It's a typical line of thought for me to assume that I am responsible for my own ignorance.

Everytime a line of religious thought fails logically, we are to be sent on a guilt trip so we can blame ourselves and not question the perfectness of beliefs. I left Islam because I came to understand it's limitations and double standards.I saw the basis for human reasoning deskied in "Divine Reasoning". God's word, God's plan can't be so imperefect if he's perefct... (at least to me). when I get sick, God doesn't buy me tylenol, I do myself, my family does it, people do...now please don't say that God created them or guided them such. Sure I can't grow wings but that's because it's a physical impossibility...theology is just reasoning and intellectual reality not a physical reality like myself.

Rationally, speaking...the schema of God is not Logical... analytically or synthetically.

 

Limitations and double standards. Please give me an example. No offense illogical, but I believe anybody who leaves Islam, leaves out of Ignorance or Arrogance. You have chosen Ignorance of the Religion. You have not understood it and accepted it to be able to understand its beauty. But no one stopped you. Allah gave you the tools, you failed to use them. If He was just going to guide us all what is the point of the test? You are the type who blames the whole world for his problems, and never looks to himself. Have you ever stopped to think, well there is another 1.5 billion other muslims, who are not completely stupid, why haven't they left their religion? I mean if they see the double standards and limitations of it, why don't they leave? (If you are out of Afghanistan I can say you are free from the Apostasy rule :D) God doesn't buy you tylenol, but He puts the cure in the tylenol. I can take 1000 pills of tylenol and my head won't stop hurting. I can have 1000 surgeries and I will never lose my cancer. Allah gives us a means in this world, but He puts the cure in those means.

 

 

Ws

Lol dammed? why would I be the enemy of myself?

I already tried what u presribed to no avail. the 99 names, most of them are already circulating my head. I remember Al rahman, Alrahim but also Al Qahar Al Mumit. If God is everything that we know...and beyond what we can know...than that's also plain fact that I can't know him. If he's extremely good than he is also extremely bad, why would out block out the second fact. He created Devil, he made him bad..if it's for my own good than I must first understand it to be true. If it's something beyond my understanding than I am not liable. If this is a test than I don't like it, I want to drop the course. If i can't than that's not good since I am being forced to take this "bad'' test.

I know it'ss it because of Satan and the bet (I see why betting is haram). Besides why couldn't God just smack satan silly to his doom for being an apostate ...and let us all live in heaven.( subliminal message: don't question God)

 

I see inconsistencies with God's plan. Why did he sent 4 books to get it right, he knew that the first three would fail. His wisdom is superior to human ignorance. Why not send Quran the first time and with Adam. Why is Quran difficult to understand. If it's not than why do people interpret it differently. If they are stupid than why make it easier like layman's terms. If mathematics, something created by humans is so easy that everyone can understand it the same way than..that why Isn't quran such. I mean no one argues that 2+2=4. THE WORLD (given sanity) agrees to that including the people with the blindness veil. Why expect less than perfection from God. Maybe he did it deliberately...well that's not fair to stupid people like myself and how's that Good.

Wow... I sound like JadaKiss with all them YYs but I do feel abandoned by "God".

I know that You will say that human demands can be endless and I can always be unhappy with God no ,matter how nice he is, But there is a reasonable thresh hold beyond which I know my demands are unreaosnable. Besides God with his infinite powers can forfill every one of my wish even if it collides with someone else's counter wish since he is GOD..Capable of all things.

 

You are making these complicated more than they already are. Allah is not of this universe, therefore you can never physically speak to Him, see or touch Him. But Allah has given you attributes and situations to show how He reacted so that you might know Him. I mean how much detail do you have to get into Allah to know Him? Through my posts you can know me enough to like me or dislike me. You don't have to know where I am or what I look like. It's irrelevant. Allah gives us enough to know Him. If He is extremely good He cannot be extremely bad. I am extremely funny, that means I cannot be extremely not funny. Allah is the All mighty, therefore He can't be weak. He created the devil, but the devil had free will. He chose to be bad. Allah knew He was going to be bad, He never forced him. The Devil REFUSED to listen to Allah, but out of Allah's mercy He didn't destroy him on the spot. Out of Allah's mercy we have been created and allowed to worship Allah and be given Jenna. I mean Allah could have just NOT created us. I think that is a big reward, being existant. But what do we do, we claim Allah's plan is inconsistent, we say we cannot know Him, even though He has already sent us 4 books, see that is why Allah sent 4. He did it for us. Allah did everything at our intellectual level. He did it to show us everything. He did it to show us we would reject faith. and then He sent his final messenger who would send the message that would not be corrupted. Allah did it to show the poison of free will. The Qur'an is not diffucult to understand, but you just need to know the background of it. There are interpretations because Arabic is not easily translated to english.

 

How can something like the Qur'an give something like 2+2=4 withou first establishing the numbers and the function that is plus? If people won't accept the numbers or what addition is, no one will agree that 2+2=4. It's very easy to accept the Qur'an. Allah did sent the Qur'an in perfection and the Qur'an is perfection. Illogical, the Qur'an is easy to understand for those who seek to understand it. The Qur'an was not sent FOR ignorant people, it was sent TO ignorant people. The pagans were stupid, we are stupid, look at our world, we are despicable, the Qur'an was sent to shape the world using the stupid people. The Prophet(PBUH) was the first step to shaping the ignorant people into leaders and the best of people. I used to be ignorant and stupid, and I still have remenants of that, but the Qur'an and Islam shaped me into a better person, nonmuslims and muslims will agree I have become a better person.

 

Illogical, I am satisfied with my life now, not because I am searching for materialistic things, because bro, when you are chasing this world, you will never catch it. You will always want more, if you have money you will want more, if you have a girlfriend you will want more. It's a never ending circle. But Islam bro, it gives you sakina. Tranquility, I do not want those things because I have better things, I have Allah, I feel my life has meaning, when I am searching for material, I feel useless. I feel like all these struggles I go through will actually get me somewhere. If Allah was to fulfill all my wishes, I would be in hell for sure. That's why you wait for Jenna, where everything becomes Halal, and if you think Jenna doesn't exist, well the life you live in the Path of Allah is way better than anything else. You're respected, you're at peace, you're loved. Islam is just the solution bro, everything you read makes so much sense. The more I read the Qur'an the more I understand the message. It's not talking about some far off magical stuff, its talking about now, the world, my life. Its at my level, I am a 14 year old, and I can understand the Qur'an. I have knowledge of Arabic, but even the english. It just makes sense. I don't go reading it expecting anything. For example, I was having a bad day, and eveyrthing was going wrong, I have lots of work to do, its a weekend, I wana chill, but then us guys get together and we pray Maghrib. He(the imam of us) reads surat al Sharh, and he comes by the ayah that means, Verily with harships comes relief, Verily with Hardships comes Relief. and it was just so true, and it really gave me hope. It was applied 1400 years ago, and it can be applied now. You just need to open you eyes to it.

 

There are no incosistentcies with Allah's plan, come on, we are humans, do you think we could find fault in Allah?

 

May Allah guide you bro.

 

(And no I haven't beaten the Challenge of the Gods, I'm still on the first one, It's so annoying, ow do you knock them over!

 

Salamu Alaikaum

Edited by alim_in_training

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Actually, if you read the Qur'an you learn a lot about Allah. I referred the 99 names because that is the best way to know Allah quickly. I mean if He says those are His names, and those are His Attributes, what do you need better than that? Allah is never powerless against anything, nontheless our free will. Our free will is the same that is given to a lab rat, you allow it to roam around to see what it does, but you keep it in the maze, restricted, by laws and nature.

By age of 10 I had already read Quran 3 times.

I guess you define "free" different than I do.

Even a prisoner is free to roam inside his 10 by 8 cell, but I don't consider than freedom bcaz he is still in Jail.Not to get into a free will debate but free isn't constrained by consequenses.

 

Limitations and double standards. Please give me an example. No offense illogical, but I believe anybody who leaves Islam, leaves out of Ignorance or Arrogance.

I know u feel I'm ignorant and I don't blame u or take offense, its what one judging by religious standards would feel. To me arrogant is some one who fail to consider the validity behind an opposing view. I don't do that. Double standards do exist.

take apostacy for example....muslims do dawa to convert others and when muslims convert ..Kill them. We look down on hindu women who practice Sati but than justify execution by Sharia.List goes on.

 

You have chosen Ignorance of the Religion. You have not understood it and accepted it to be able to understand its beauty. But no one stopped you. Allah gave you the tools, you failed to use them. If He was just going to guide us all what is the point of the test? You are the type who blames the whole world for his problems, and never looks to himself. Have you ever stopped to think, well there is another 1.5 billion other muslims, who are not completely stupid, why haven't they left their religion? I mean if they see the double standards and limitations of it, why don't they leave?

Because they are brainwashed...just like i was except I realized it and changed.Maybe I realized it since I live in a melting pot of all faiths and didn't learn other people's view in a negative light like we are taught otherwise.

If 1.5 billion people agreed to something than that would be a different story but the truth is that they don't.Muslims are further divided into sects..Sunnis don't consider Shias to be muslims but Shias are included in the 1.5 billion. Same goes for other sects, no two sects agree and the concept of "Real Muslim" is based on their own standards.

Through my posts you can know me enough to like me or dislike me. You don't have to know where I am or what I look like. It's irrelevant. Allah gives us enough to know Him. If He is extremely good He cannot be extremely bad. I am extremely funny, that means I cannot be extremely not funny.

I don't judge that quick, my line of thought believes on postponing jugement to eliminate misconceptions. Both Qualities can exist..take water for example..it can be extremely hot or extremely cold.

 

Allah is the All mighty, therefore He can't be weak. He created the devil, but the devil had free will. He chose to be bad. Allah knew He was going to be bad, He never forced him. The Devil REFUSED to listen to Allah, but out of Allah's mercy He didn't destroy him on the spot. Out of Allah's mercy we have been created and allowed to worship Allah and be given Jenna. I mean Allah could have just NOT created us.

Allah created devil and gave him free will so if devil disobeyed him he must of been stupid...who made him stupid?

What I see here is subliminally we are not to question Allah whether his commands are logical or not.

When I would ask a "molvee'' a certain question that he had no answer to he would tell me stay away from Qiyas ..a tool of devil since devil did Qiyas. Message is Subliminal yet clear.

Even when Islam feels illogical it is not. I can say same about Judiasm...so what if it looks wrong it is not...

 

I think that is a big reward, being existant. But what do we do, we claim Allah's plan is inconsistent, we say we cannot know Him, even though He has already sent us 4 books, see that is why Allah sent 4. He did it for us. Allah did everything at our intellectual level. He did it to show us everything. He did it to show us we would reject faith. and then He sent his final messenger who would send the message that would not be corrupted. Allah did it to show the poison of free will. The Qur'an is not diffucult to understand, but you just need to know the background of it. There are interpretations because Arabic is not easily translated to english.

Actions speak louder than words.

u can say that everything Allah does is good.

Heck even satan is good since without him we wouldn't be here and reap the blessing in the here after.Arabic scholars even sometimes disagree...what kind of clear message is that.If u say that Allah did it purposely and he is still good than I can't argue that. It reminds me of a friend I had who thought he was the best pool player and even when he would loose, he would say "It's all part my his plan"

 

How can something like the Qur'an give something like 2+2=4 withou first establishing the numbers and the function that is plus? If people won't accept the numbers or what addition is, no one will agree that 2+2=4. It's very easy to accept the Qur'an. Allah did sent the Qur'an in perfection and the Qur'an is perfection. Illogical, the Qur'an is easy to understand for those who seek to understand it. The Qur'an was not sent FOR ignorant people, it was sent TO ignorant people. The pagans were stupid, we are stupid, look at our world, we are despicable, the Qur'an was sent to shape the world using the stupid people. The Prophet(PBUH) was the first step to shaping the ignorant people into leaders and the best of people. I used to be ignorant and stupid, and I still have remenants of that, but the Qur'an and Islam shaped me into a better person, nonmuslims and muslims will agree I have become a better person.

u are right about numbers and the plus sign.

We must assume that they exists. They are imaginary. But once we do assume the results are perfect.

Same goes about words...we must assume that letters exist and represent a certain meaning when letters are arranged in a certain way. Still once the premise is taken, no two mathmaticians disagree that 2+2=4. There are no grey areas in math ...no one disagrees...Sadly muslims don't always agree..holding sanity as a prerequisite...that means only one thing ...the message isn't clear.

I have better things, I have Allah, I feel my life has meaning, when I am searching for material, I feel useless. I feel like all these struggles I go through will actually get me somewhere. If Allah was to fulfill all my wishes, I would be in hell for sure. That's why you wait for Jenna, where everything becomes Halal, and if you think Jenna doesn't exist, well the life you live in the Path of Allah is way better than anything else. You're respected, you're at peace, you're loved. Islam is just the solution bro, everything you read makes so much sense. The more I read the Qur'an the more I understand the message. It's not talking about some far off magical stuff, its talking about now, the world, my life. Its at my level, I am a 14 year old, and I can understand the Qur'an. I have knowledge of Arabic, but even the english. It just makes sense. I don't go reading it expecting anything. For example, I was having a bad day, and eveyrthing was going wrong, I have lots of work to do, its a weekend, I wana chill, but then us guys get together and we pray Maghrib. He(the imam of us) reads surat al Sharh, and he comes by the ayah that means, Verily with harships comes relief, Verily with Hardships comes Relief. and it was just so true, and it really gave me hope. It was applied 1400 years ago, and it can be applied now. You just need to open you eyes to it.

There are no incosistentcies with Allah's plan, come on, we are humans, do you think we could find fault in Allah?

U r right that Islam gives one a firm base of marality but ultimately we must evaluate them through personal means. Like isaid before..Islam can be used as a sword or shield..U can hurt people using it or help people. Why not just take the positivity and leave out the negativity...I value some Islamic teaching but disagree with others.Since Islam is a package deal, It doesn't work for me as I don't believe on killing the jews or homos or apostates based on differences or difference of opinion.

May Allah guide you bro.

thanks ...And I hope so too ...as I can be wrong but not until I can see it..otherwise it would be blind faith.

(And no I haven't beaten the Challenge of the Gods, I'm still on the first one, It's so annoying, ow do you knock them over!

Salamu Alaikaum

WS

use the sword..but Just dash at them or charge at them to throw them off..don't fight them like u normally would. Also did u buy the game or got it off the internet?

Peace :D

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This is a big one, and it applies to all religions really, well, all religions that worship God anyways, and I would like to see how muslims answer it. If God (Allah) is so powerful, then what does he need us for? Why even bother creating us?

 

 

 

Why Did God Create Mankind?

 

From the perspective of humankind, the question “Why did God create man?†implies “For what purpose was man created?†In the final revelation (the Quran), this question is answered without any ambiguity. Humans are first informed by God that every human being is born with an innate consciousness of God. In the Quran, Allah said:

 

“[Remember] when your Lord extracted from the loins of Adam's children their descendants and made them testify [saying]: ‘Am I not your Lord?’ They said: ‘Yes, we testify to it.’ [This was] in case you say on the Day of Judgment: ‘We were unaware of this.’ Or you say: ‘It was our ancestors who worshipped others besides God and we are only their descendants. Will you then destroy us for what those liars did?’ â€

 

The Prophet (peace be upon him) explained that when Allah created Adam, He took from him a covenant at a place called Na‘maan on the 9th day of the 12th month. He then extracted from Adam all of his descendants who would be born until the end of the world, generation after generation, and spread them out before Him to take a covenant from them also. He spoke to them, face to face, making them bear witness that He was their Lord. Consequently, every human being is responsible for belief in God, which is imprinted on each and every soul. It is based on this inborn belief that Allah defined the purpose of mankind's creation in Quran:

 

“I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship.â€

 

Thus, the essential purpose for which humankind was created is the worship of God. However, the Almighty is not in need of human worship. He did not create human beings out of a need on His part. If not a single human worshipped God, it would not diminish His glory in any way, and if all of humankind worshipped Him, it would not increase His glory in any way. God is perfect. He alone exists without any needs. All created beings have needs. Consequently, it is humankind that needs to worship God.

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Why Did God Create Mankind?

 

From the perspective of humankind, the question “Why did God create man?†implies “For what purpose was man created?â€...

 

Good post bro but some one already beat u to it :D

If u read the responses on the second page, U'll see what i mean .

peace

 

Edited to comply with Rule 39.

Edited by yusufar

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Thus, the essential purpose for which humankind was created is the worship of God. However, the Almighty is not in need of human worship.

 

Then what was the point of creating humans to worship God if it never mattered in the first place?

Edited by 3dshocker

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:D

He created us to "worship" him. He doesnt need us. We need him.

"And I ( Allah ) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me ( Alone )" 52:56

 

 

That is the answer.

 

I think that's a very precise answer and as concrete as we can get based on the Quran and the Sunnah. Elaboration on the exact reason for man's creation is probably a divine secret (according to Islam, uncountable number of angels praise Allah all the time). When Allah decided to create Adam, the angles questioned "why create men when they will create mischief while we only worship you?" (or something on that line). But Allah replied, "I know what you know not".

 

But I would also like to add, that according to some Sufis (I think I read it in Islamonline), God created mankind solely out of love. I guess that provides the quality of "love" a very high and a very fundamental station in the universe.

 

peace

Alameen

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