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It was to different, there is a smell that is in the air. The only place it doesn't smell is in the defense area. I do not think I could live there.

 

:sl: bhai,

 

Really, well hmm I didn't smell anything.

You were not born there and it was your first time visiting right so I guess that explains a lot.

I'd love to live there, it feels more at home. :sl: BTW what does your parents think of Pakistan?

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It was to different, there is a smell that is in the air. The only place it doesn't smell is in the defense area. I do not think I could live there.

 

:sl: bhai,

 

Really, well hmm I didn't smell anything.

You were not born there and it was your first time visiting right so I guess that explains a lot.

I'd love to live there, it feels more at home. :sl: BTW what does your parents think of Pakistan?

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Salam,

I am Pakistani, but born and raised in the U.S. I visited Pakistan last year; let's just say I did not enjoy the trip at all. The only part of the trip I liked was going to Dubai for a week on the way home.

 

 

I kind of agree... Im Pakistani, but born and raised in the UK. I've been to Pakistan quite a few times but after 4 weeks it gets too much for me. The only reason I go is to see some of my family.

 

LOL [at] there is a smell in the air... It's true in some areas it does smell.. but maybe in some areas of the UK it smells?? :sl:

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:sl:

 

Really, well hmm I didn't smell anything.

You were not born there and it was your first time visiting right so I guess that explains a lot.

It was actually my 2nd time going, my first time was when i was 7.

 

 

 

:sl: BTW what does your parents think of Pakistan?

 

My mother loves it, my father said he would rather not go back, lol. The difference between my parents and I is that they were born and raised there, so they can live there without a problem. My biggest problem is my urdu is not the best, so it would be hard to talk to the locals.

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LOL [at] there is a smell in the air... It's true in some areas it does smell.. but maybe in some areas of the UK it smells?? :sl:

 

I think it's because of the bad pollution and lack of a decent gutter system. Sometimes the cows smell better than whats in the air.

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My mother loves it, my father said he would rather not go back, lol. The difference between my parents and I is that they were born and raised there, so they can live there without a problem. My biggest problem is my urdu is not the best, so it would be hard to talk to the locals.

 

:sl: bhai,

 

I was born there and came to the US when I was 10, so I like it better there than over here.

I mean US is nice and all but it doesn't feel like home.

Yeah I know some people who can't speak urdu/punjabi they have a lot of problem... but some of them visit pakistan as much as 3 times a year! :sl: (seriously)

I think its the parents fault they need to teach their kids their first language...

They are the one speaking English with their kids at home than some of them complain because their kids don't know their first language. (I know people who do that)

 

I think it's because of the bad pollution and lack of a decent gutter system. Sometimes the cows smell better than whats in the air.

 

Yeah, well that's true, but a lot of areas are actually clean now.

Edited by Hira (Devout)

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I think it's because of the bad pollution and lack of a decent gutter system. Sometimes the cows smell better than whats in the air.

 

hmmm.. don't think I've ever smelt a cow.. :sl: yhh its definatly because of the gutter system.. but some places are decent.. well in Lahore atleast..

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:sl:

 

Yes, it smells like fertilizer and cow dung a lot, but that's not what the topic of this thread is.

 

Islam there as a whole is not exactly as it should be or as you hope it would be considering the state of the ummah right now. However, it also depends on what city and area you are in. There is a lot of bida and shirk there. The masses are ignorant about the deen. There are a lot of supersitions and grave worshipping going on in every major city.

 

There are some locals who are trying very hard to practice the deen and to spread it the way it should be. However, the foreigners, Africans (Somali's and Sudani's) are doing a much better job of that. There are free Islamic classes and free Islamic material. You can't complain that there are no sisters only classes in Islamabad, for example. Or that you can't afford to buy the course books that are actually sold in bookstores. Authentic leaflets and papers with Islamic info. are also distributed for free. I was told that there are even some free hifzh programs even for females. You can find somali/egyptian long khimars, or even the medium length ones. You can get Islamic attire made, altered,etc. pretty much at any Islamic clothing store, or even by any other tailor. You can find niqabs and gloves easily or even have the made. I mean there are some positives of living in a muslim populated country, so this isn't just specifically about Pakistan. You don't have to worry about shopping online or wondering about where to find a store anymore. Many bookstores also exist, but you have to be careful of where and what you buy. Alhumdulilah for Darussalaam in Islamabad and in Lahore. I do, however, doubt that they have any Al Basheer products there. You can even find leather socks, and all kinds of stuff readily available. I even won a free bottle of zamzam. I was pretty amazed as I always wondered where I could obtain it from over there!

 

You get to hear the adhan five times a day. However, you hear all kinds of deviant adhans with different wordings too, which of course take place before and after the actual prayer times. The deviants do this to be different from those that truly practice the Quran and authentic Sunnah. For example, some adhaan's take place an hour after the actual time, leaving about an hour to an hour and a half between the next prayer. They don't usually delay it that much when it comes to Fajr and Maghrib. Another bida is that they recite the salat and salams every time on the mic before beginning the adhaan. They also keep reciting the salams on the Rasul (sws) over the mic and lots of naats (usually the ones that contain shirk by praising Rasul sws as much as Allah (swt) alone should be praised) on Fridays. They also do this before Fajr during Ramadan.

 

Many of the masajid do not have any women's side. Very few (those that are practicing the right aqeedah) do facilitate them, and in those you do find sisters in Juma and Eid. Eid does not, alhumdulilah, take place at the masajid. Like the sunnah, it is mostly prayed outdoors. Some small masajid do still choose to just pray there, as always. The majority of the females there do not go pray Eid, nor do they have any at-home Eid congregrational prayer or even pray it at home.

 

Now, you would think that because it's a muslim country, you don't need to check ingredients, but guess what you do thanks to all the foreign products!

 

Unfortunately, people's priorities are messed up. Thus, many people are running after the dunya and forgetting the akhira. Like there is more emphasis on being up to date in fashion and visiting the salons, or as it is said in Pakistani urdu, parlors, than the West. You would have thought that it wouldn't be so, but you'd be surprised. Those that do not practice our deen rightfully, also lack a lot of adaab, whether it is in eating, dress, walking, or even in communication. If you have ever lived in the west or visit that country after a long time, you will at time be surprised at how much you miss some of the good that does exist in the West that we, muslims, should have. You start wondering whether you really can put up with everything and for how long. You want to remind yourself about why you wanted to make hijrah in the first place. It's not impossible, but it takes a lot of sabr and requires giving it some time. After some time, you get used to some of the stuff, while you do not get used to many things. Things aren't very catered for the foreigners or Expatriates.

 

It is not like the west where if you smile at someone because it is sadaqa and you give them the salams that you will get a response. Most of the time it is ignored. Sometimes people even say wa alaikum. When you try to practice, those that are "modern" insult you using Allah's name Wahhab (if you know what I mean), and even go on to label you as a kafir. You cannot and do not just want to befriend everyone just because they are muslim. Sometimes depending on your area and company, you feel as if you came to the wrong place. As if maybe it's not the right country for your emaan, but then you remind youself that there is not much of peace anywhere in this ummah. That fitnah is everywhere because qiyamah is getting near. Sometimes if you lived a comfortable life, shaytan provokes you and tells you that you were better off in your previous location and makes you desire material things. It can be depressing if you don't even have enough money for your necessities. Things are quite expensive for residents. Of late, you cannot even find wheat flour easily to make roti for every meal. There is a shortage in the country.

 

A lot of money has been spent on spying on muslims, and closing down madrasas to make brownie points in front of Bush. To paint a picture of some kind of worldly success. Much is being spent on building malls and on imported goods. You wonder what is the so-called Muslim country making on its own?? Or is it just importing everything except for cotton and the like? What is it doing in terms of zakah and sadaqa for the needy? It is difficult to live there forever. Perhaps, I'll write more later, :sl:

 

Disbelievers (locals) also live there, including hindus, catholics, and the like. I have also seen some churches and even YMCA even in places like Lahore. I have not seen anyone giving them any dawa. I do know that Shaykh Yusuf Estes visits India and Pakistan once every year. I am not sure if he is broadcasted on the local channels or not. Thankfully, with Peace TV, founded by Dr. Zakir Naik of India, some people are finally being educated about this deen, especially when they listen to the revert speakers. Lots of dawah needs to be done in real life. You are very blessed if you have practising neighbors there. You don't feel so alone then. Sometimes you find that it is harder to give dawah there than in the west. For some reason, sometimes I always feel like it is at times harder to talk to muslims about our deen than it is with the kuffaar.

 

Quite frankly, I have not personally witnessed even remote "extremists" anywhere in the country, but then again I do not claim to have ever visited and lived in each part of it, so Allahu alam.

Edited by ummammaar

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:sl:

 

Oh yeah, in regards to cleaninless, ok it might be "cleaner" than a decade before, but they still have a long way to go. I remember back when I was able to go every year, I never heard of or saw trash cans at anyone's house or even at parks and zoos. Alhumdulilah, I saw some in Islamabad, but none in the other cities that I visited not even Lahore. I think that may be because it's the capital and has more foreigners and foreign influence than other major cities. All the same, at least some people are starting to take "cleanliness is half of faith" seriously! I saw minors hand picking trash even on sidewalks and intersections. Also, during Ramadan, in the rich areas, there were some wanna-be fake janitors who only work during that blessed month so they can get some Eidi. They ring your bell to get rid of your "personal" trash, but the rest of the year, it seems as if they just don't exist.

 

There certainly needs to be a lot more organization there. It is sad, especially being Muslim. They have this whole slogan "Unity, Faith, Discpline" painted here and there. However, I didn't see much of that! In Islamabad, some are trying to obey the city laws. They've finally put SOME traffic lights and have some traffic police that has control the traffic manually. On the one hand, it's nice, but on the other hand, it seems degrading. I mean what will any foreigner think that muslims there need babysitters in order to behave in public?

 

It seems all the good muslim businessmen stories are just history for now. I mean like how such people once existed in large proportions and managed to make places like Indonesia muslims!? In Pakistan, it's a big joke. I mean I wish people would open up the Quran and authentic ahadith. They don't seem to know the etiquettes at all. What is really messsed up is how they insanely raise the prices of everything in Ramadan and around the Eid's. It's like robbing your (local) fellow muslims who are already hardly making ends meet. I mean can't they actually pick up anything good from the kuffaar? Instead of having Christmas and Ramadan sales that exist elsewhere in the world, they think about how to make more profit, even though that they're going to make more profit than the rest of the year anyways!

 

Another problem is the domestic workers are usually illiterate. They don't know anything about this deen, usually. The vast majority of them are Pakistani christians and are more modest, humble and simple than Pakistani muslims. Like some of them will always keep the hijab on. You won't see their ankles. Things that muslimaat should be careful about. Unfortunately, there even many who do wear abaya or even niqab do not do it for the sake of deen. Many do it for cultural reasons, but apparently have very little Islam in them when observed from surface level. Even those that are religious and cover with overgarments are so much into fashion. In general, more emphasis is being given to wearing pant shirt with not even a dupatta around one's bossoms. Wearing tight jeans with short shirts or mini kurta's. Heck, even the shalwar qameez are starting to become more like pant shirt, only exposing more than the ones you find in the West. For example, some of the pajama or flapper styled shalwars have slits starting from the knees such that when the woman sits you feel as if she wearing a skirt with slits or capris. Audhubillah.

 

There is also this sad misconception which at some places makes more covered women looked at in the wrong way because there are prostitutes going around in black abaya's even if they wear no niqab or only keep a dupatta or scarf around their necks and not over their hair. Because of this some people start saying that one should not wear any overgarment or that it definately must be any color other than black. Oh did I mention, there is more abaya and hijab fashion there than you and I have seen in the West, or well even in Saudia for that matter. Of course, the imported one's are usually from Saudia. Then they also have these very see-thru chiffon abaya's which usually should have two layers, but sometimes they don't. They tend to wear very short ones that show their clothes from the bottom.

 

The vast majority of them, even those that went to madrasa's, are hafizha's, or have attended extensive tafseer classes, and/or are otherwise, more practicing than you and I combined tend not to cover their feet, which as you know is awrah because the hadith (paraphrased) mentioned covering EVERYTHING EXCEPT one's hands and face. Thus, you see many of them wearing shoes that do not cover the top of their feet at all, nor do their abaya's cover them. So socks are something you rarely see them wearing!

 

Many people are hafizh or hafizh in name only, i.e. they do not understand and practice the deen as much as you would think and hope that they would. It also does not seem like they provide any marriage or youth counseling facilities.

 

Alhumdulilah, one thing that you can appreciate and love is that you do not have to worry about not finding female doctors, especially ob/gyn's. However, you do worry about the hygeine. It is disappointing since you would hope that they would take "cleanliness if close to Godliness." more seriously, being so educated, but more often than not they do not. So one worries about having to see a doctor, let alone having to get any lab work done! This is exactly why I'm glad that now they finally have bottled water by Nestle and Aquafina, and even have water dispensers/coolers. That really makes a lot of difference in terms of not getting sick as much. On the other hand, you still have to keep worrying about being able to trust your muslim brothers when you eat out. Instead of taking responsibility and fearing Allah, trusting Him and hoping that He will put barakah in their business, they keep warming up and frying old food. It is dayS and weeks old, usually sitting outside in the heat with flies around it. Of course, they don't tell you that, but you see that everywhere, even at places where they don't "prepare" the food in front of you. Even when it really is made right then and there, the dough/batter,etc. is still just as old and what not, like I said. Maybe, this is why this ummah is having so many fitan--we're so far from the Quran and Sunnah we don't tell the customer about the defects! Allahu alam.

 

Ok, I am not trying to be funny, but alhumdulilah, you can now find some deodrants and SOME of the people there have finally started using them. I just wish they had deodrant commercials. Hint, Hint! It is disappointing to see the lack of traits that should exist in Muslims. It bothered me even before I moved to the west. SubhanAllah!

Edited by ummammaar

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:sl:

 

Wow, long description sis ummammaar, Thank you very much. I haven't been to Pakistan for 8 whole years now, and I believe much has changed since then. It's good to gain some insight though.

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Asalaamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

 

Sis UmmAmmaar, it saddens me to see you have so long posts about complains on Pakistani people / country.

I would love you to write, recall, some positive about Pakistan ? :sl:

When 13 years ago i first visited Pakistan, I had a wonderful time. Later some sister complained about the smell of sewer. I had to tell her I had not noticed it once.

When you wish to see something positive you can see it, when you wish to see something negative you can also.

It would be sad if your negative experience of Pakistan / Pakistani people take overhand. Pakistan and its people have so much beauty and good things also. :sl:

 

wa asalaamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Edited by Chaand

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:sl:

 

With due respect, I did not go there with the intention of a mere visit. I did not go there looking for negatives. Although I understand what you mean, that is silly, no offense. I mentioned this because people expect so much more and better when they go to a muslim POPULATED country. So this is just so that they do not get surprised and can be mentally prepared to handle this, whether it is for a visit, moving there, or going back there.

 

If you recall my posts. ukhti, they not ALL negative. Go back and read again, please.

 

I am not going to make up something positive that does not exist, only that which does exist. By the way, most of the deviant groups originated from the IndoPak subcontinent. I am not saying this.. but learned people have said this. Historically, it is true. We can't deny facts, whether good or bad, to our liking, or to our dislike.

 

13 years ago was a long time sister. It is not the same now. The smell is not a big issue, compared to the religious issues. However, as muslims we are supposed to be the prime examples of cleanliness, not it's opposite. I know that part of is poverty, but much of it is due to the corrupt politicians who live in palaces themselves, but let the masses suffer. However, just because of that we cannot blame the politicians alone. People are not doing their part. People who go back there are also not doing there part for the MOST part.

 

I mean sure it is nice to have muslim neighbors, if mutual rights are actually respected. If your neighbor is religious, you are very blessed, but that is not common or even unique just to pak.

 

They do even make announcements for deaths in neighborhoods over mics, and some people who still have haya will go and give their condolences... but this all comes with the bidah package. It is a mix. It is neither all good, nor bad, so please don't tell me that I did not write anything positive or lived there looking for negative.

 

Also, I mean you no disrespect, but I am reiterating what every one who has been born and raised in a different country (esp. from the West) whether a raised muslim or esp. if revert says.. That when you first go to a muslim POPULATED country it always seems nice because you don't have to look for halal restaurants, you don't see pork, and you hear the adhaan live, rather than from a clock, your computer, or a tape/cd. Visiting is far different than being a resident, even if it is for a short period of time. When you are somewhere as a visitor, your experience will be different because in most poor muslim regions of the world, people purposely treat folks from the West as royalty. However, when you live there it is a totally different story, especially when it comes to Pakistan.

 

And don't think I am picking on it. Much of what I have written applies to other muslim countries too. So this is actually a reminder to people who think of hijrah that they have to think about how to fix these problems. If you go there unprepared, you might go bonkers. If you prepare youself for it, you may have a better "chance" (for the lack of a better word) to turn it into something else for youself AND others. My whole point is to not expect perfection in any of the heavily muslim areas of the world. Don't think that those countries have perfect Islam.. That does not exist anywhere. It is up to us to make it happen, although dawa can be sometimes much more difficult when it comes to muslims, as compared to when you give dawa to the kuffaar.

 

I am by no means saying one should use this as an excuse to never go to any of those countries, whether for a visit or to live there. Nor am I saying that by default, daral kufr or daral harb is better for one deen's. I am not making any thumb rules or implying them. Also, ukhti, my post is also directed towards people of asabiyyah. Asabiyah (patriotism, nationalism,....) is part of jahiliyah. It is not from the Quran and Sunnah. We need to attach our hearts and minds to our deen, not to this place or that place, whether we are born there, originally from there, have a friend from there, married to someone from there, or not. (There = general, not specific.)

 

Yes, Allah's land is beautiful everywhere and good and bad people and things exist everywhere. That is what I have been saying the whole time.. that a mix exists everywhere. Perfection is only for Allah.

 

I did not exagerrate about the good or the bad. My goal is just to put things into perspective. People need to know the facts. I would be denying someone their right to know the haqq, if I hide the WHOLE truth, and only mentioned what would please someone or everyone. People need to stop acting like it is an "extremist" country, when it is not.. nonmuslims especially need to recognize this. It is a very secular country. The youth is heading downwards for the most part, so there is no reason to suspect anyone, arrest, slander, ....anyone there or even in other muslim areas.

 

My love is for Islam, not for some country. At the same time, I haven't portrayed general hatred either; please do not misunderstand.

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Asalaamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

 

Jazaka Allahu geiran for replying so quick sister. Alhamdulillah I know the negative things of Pakistan also...but I wished to read more positive. I wrote that my first visit to Pakistan was 13 years ago...I should have mentioned ( but it wasnot my issue when I wrote above ) that I lived in Lahore a year and my last visit was last december when I got married. I know about the numerous adhaans for every sect, and I remember the calls when soomeone died and all and it is sad that it is still practised..I just wished you would tell about the beauty of the other majority Pakistani's who do adher to the Correct Path, and about the Islamic practise and culture that is within the Sunnah and Quran, that you find in Pakistan. I am sure you have family and friends in Pakistan still also who are good practising, so I merely wished you would focuss more on the good things as you sounded to me sad, hurt and disappointed about the behaviour of some Pakistani's, may Allah subhana wa Ta'ala guide them.

 

wa asalaamu aleykum,

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:sl:

 

Whatever are the conditions of Pakistan, its still our homeland and we should love it. We should always pray to Allah (swt) that may he turn all the negatives things about Pakistan into positive ones, ameen. There are good and bad things in every country. We should try to look at the positive side, and correct the negative side as much as we can. Whether its by prayer, or inspiring someone to do good. May Allah (swt) guide as all, ameen.

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I think liking one's homeland, or liking one's people is okay, as long as it does not get in the way of Deen. It's a natural human thing to be comfortable in and to feel an attachment to one's homeland, or people, or languages, so it's not something that is forbidden in Islam. What is forbidden is excesses, when these feelings get in the way of Deen, for example, if you look down upon other lands, or people, or languages, just because they are not your own. We should be united in our diversity of homelands, peoples, and languages, and not divided. After all, even Muhammad PBUH thought of Mecca as his homeland.

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Well, Late reply but I read umammar's post just now, It looks like you got stuck between the Pakistani sufis (known as barelwis) and their area. They call righteous wahabi and call them kaafir, I agree.

But there are many young ones who are not following barelvism and I can see many and many young ones changing their way of Sallah. I myself was born in barelvi family, and later changed to salafi, or pakistanis call them ahl - e hadeeth, or wahabis etc. I myself is responsible for 5 more conversions from barelvism to Ahl e hadeeth in last 4 years. So things are getting better in young generation.

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^^akhi ifti.. whats salafi.. or ahl - e hadeeth.. like.. what do they believe in etc.. and how is it different to deobandis?

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Deobandis are Hanafi, but Ahl e hadeeth are people who follow only hadiths instead of following Hanafi, Malaki,Shafai school of thoughts etc.

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Pakistan is corrupt and doomed. :sl:

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Assalamu Alaikum,

 

Pakistan is corrupt and doomed. :sl:

 

Why do you say that??? in fact DON'T SAY THAT, it seems like you have lost hope in Allah. There are lots of Good people in Pakistan and inshaAllah there is every possibility that things can change. InshaAllah as Muslims turn towards Allah and start begging for His mercy and come back on the right path no matter where we are living, then see how we will be showered with Allah's Mercy and Love all over the World.

 

AssalamuAlaikum.

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The Plan of the Crusaders adn Hindus is to split Pakistan up into smaller states, like Balochistan, etc.. and take Paks Nukes.. And the Pak army and govt. are helping their pay masters do that.. Its only the Taliban and Mujahideen that are Pakistans only hope.. If Allah wills..

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The Plan of the Crusaders adn Hindus is to split Pakistan up into smaller states, like Balochistan, etc.. and take Paks Nukes.. And the Pak army and govt. are helping their pay masters do that.. Its only the Taliban and Mujahideen that are Pakistans only hope.. If Allah wills..

You are writing all sorts of fiction today. What your fiction describes would bring about untold deaths and indescribable misery and destruction. May God in his mercy prevent any such tradgedy.

Edited by RobS

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Typical^^ Your people show us the flag of peace.. then stab us in the back..

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