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Atheist's Psychology

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Ok, let's wait for the others then ... Bye now.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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PropellerAds

Salamz

 

I'm surprised with your knowledge of English. This is exactly what I argue all along though. Such terms like "big guy", "big shot", "someone with authority" indirectly instills wrong perception of the Higher Power.

It is quite surprising that some one living is a predominantly English spoken nation has knowledge of English.

I guess I have special powers ######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_emoticons4u(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/sport/sport23.gif[/img]...And my mistake...God doesn't have Authority,I stand corrected..is it settled now?

This is exactly my point. It is my conviction that the use of this term indirectly has wrongly instilled a false image of God in your mind. And Jesus which is revered by Christians as god has made this even worse. And this is all done subconsciously.

Right ..and that's why I complimented you ("Ghost of Sigmond Freud") Thank you for your meritless psycho analysis which is as much off the mark as a blind man sharp shooting.

Since you don't deem Qur'an and Hadith as credible, why do you think an atheist book written by an atheist is credible to me?

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_emoticons4u(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/crazy/1087.gif[/img] Again...I never said these words in your reocurring thought that seem to orbit in the galaxy that's called figment of imagination.

This is what you said:

But to get this right,you have never pointed someone to Quran/Hadith hoping that they would revert ..rather you only point non muslims to Quran Hadith so they can pick up the lies judging by sources that they don't deem credible?

<--- My understanding of this statement is that you are stating that non-Muslims do not deem Mulims' sources as credible to understand Muslims' point of view. But under the same breath, you expect Muslim to consider a book written by an atheist promoting disbelief in God to be a credible source for believers to understand the point of view of Atheists?

Yes you finally got it...I said "they" not "we/us" so I am specifying my detachment. :sl:

Maybe I was being lose lipped by stating "non muslims" as technically it would include myself. :sl:

But in the context of this discussion where we are talking about atheists and people who you point to read quran... I am neither..I narrowly maintain the position of agnostic and you didn't ask me to go read Quran..and I never once argued that Quran is wrong so you can't infer that " don't deem Quran credible".

 

Now you asked how is it different from atheist pointing you to a book ..here is how.

 

The Atheist: personally wrote the book.

The God: personaly did not write Quran.

 

The Atheist:You can visit and talk to, get your book signed.

The God:Doesn't grant return trips.

 

The Atheist You can personally talk to face to face and find out what he beleieves or wants.

The God Has a do not disturb sign on his door.

 

If gayness is transmutation on physical level, then how come people fix their genes themselves and become straight? Did I miss some latest breakthrough in the medical world? Why did parent who is gay do not pass the same gay gene to his/her children? Or why did straight parent pass gay gene to his/her children?

That's a different topic..still the point made was that genetic mutation is on physical level.

How homos go straight?..maybe becaz otherwise they will be stoned to death.

Maybe the same reason why hetros go homo or metros go bio.

If you argue that gayness is a social phenomena..becaz God just can't be that cruel,...then what about hermaphrodites? people can't grow male/female organs because they are evil.

 

I don't know ... maybe they are just a bunch of confused people?

Should have quit while ahead.

Well, this is exactly my question. What is the main or underlying reason when an Atheist state that he is an atheist ....? You might be one of the people who became an atheist just in order to keep up with the trend. Who knows?

IMO...questioning the Lack of evidence. Heere is a theory:

Perhaps some one tries to rationalize the religion that he/she is borned into... then the realization that there are thoudands of Gods and hundreds of religions and millions/billions of followers who all are ready to kill or lose their lives to defend that they are right. The realization leads to examining the evidence which falls short of any proof at all.

who knows.

They implied that there must be some force that makes nature and our universe works so beautifully according to their specified roles, instead of random rules.

Sounds like the argument from design which is far from convincing, and I doubt if atheists would support the argument.

Here are some similar positions.

 

1.Atheist-No proof, No God

2.Agnostic-No proof, don't know.

 

Often there is a distinction between hard atheist and soft..there is another possibility which is rather unlikely.

 

3.kahonism-Yes God so what?? Screw God

 

Though I recall a story about some one having a tower built so he can challenge God..I doubt there are any Kahomists around today.

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_emoticons4u(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/violent/sterb107.gif[/img]

 

Peace

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If atheists are supposed to say nothing ... then it means you should say nothing, meaning atheists should learn how to keep their mouth shut instead of saying that there is no intelligent power in this universe.

 

I'd be willing to say nothing, but Americans voted for Bush becuase of CHRISTIAN beliefs, which meant the invasion of Iraq. And suicide bombers justify thier actions through Islam.

 

Religion is being used as justification to try to kill my friends. I can't... just not say anything? You know?

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I am a believer, WITHOUT religion...

 

For some time now I have visited many sites on the internet - both Muslim and non-Muslim, for and against what the 'other side' sees as ignorance, murder, injustice, truth, God - you know what I mean: the families of poor children killed in Gaza by israeli soldiers, or the family of israeli children killed when their school bus was visited by a suicide bomber. Or the fear by white non-Muslim citizens that their country is being over-run by 'aliens' ( in many cases Muslims ), or the fear by Muslim countries (Irak, Afghanistan) that they are being occupied for their resources and their people unjustly treated and robbed. The list goes on...

 

Sure enough, from a 'human' perspective, so much injustice has and is taking place, ( on all sides ) so much violence, so much fear, so much hatred, fueled in many cases by self righteous indignation that sees the 'other side' as the evil doers, and themselves as the victims and /or the 'true believers...' Blaming the other side, while all the while believing that God and the forces of goodness and truth are with them, which in turn justifies and leads to further 'reprisals.'

 

Such is the sick state of affairs our children have inherited from previous generations. But where does the blame for all this madness lie, if not within our own hearts? For without our COMPLICITY at a spiritual, social or political level - no matter what our religion or race - none of the above would occur nor would it continue to occur. We are therefore ALL guilty.

 

To blame history, or the Infidels, or the Jews, or the Muslims is to turn away from the truth, to shift the focus for what WE need to take responsibility for. It doesn't matter how much scripture you quote, if you wear a cross, if you pray every day, if you wear a veil or don't wear a veil...if you are not prepared to take responsibility for the evil inside you, then it is all for nothing, and the philosophy of 'an eye for an eye' will continue, supported by YOU, until the whole world is blind.

 

Peace

 

Brighthope

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I guess I have special powers ######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_emoticons4u(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/sport/sport23.gif[/img]...And my mistake...God doesn't have Authority,I stand corrected..is it settled now?

The dispute is not on the word Authority, but on someone

 

Maybe I was being lose lipped by stating "non muslims" as technically it would include myself. :sl:

Yes, you finally got it.

 

But in the context of this discussion where we are talking about atheists and people who you point to read quran... I am neither..I narrowly maintain the position of agnostic and you didn't ask me to go read Quran..and I never once argued that Quran is wrong so you can't infer that " don't deem Quran credible".

Agnostics/agnotism falls under the category of non-Muslim

 

Now you asked how is it different from atheist pointing you to a book ..here is how.

 

The Atheist: personally wrote the book.

The God: personaly did not write Quran.

 

The Atheist:You can visit and talk to, get your book signed.

The God:Doesn't grant return trips.

 

The Atheist You can personally talk to face to face and find out what he beleieves or wants.

The God Has a do not disturb sign on his door.

True, but God has assigned the Prophet and ulama (Muslim scholars) the duties to explain anything that you want to ask bout Qur'an.

 

If you argue that gayness is a social phenomena..becaz God just can't be that cruel,...then what about hermaphrodites? people can't grow male/female organs because they are evil.

Most of cases, gayness is psychological phenomena. Even if gay is born, then it doesn't mean that God is cruel, or gay activities are tolerable. So, your hermaphrodites doesn't make sense?

 

Perhaps some one tries to rationalize the religion that he/she is borned into... then the realization that there are thoudands of Gods and hundreds of religions and millions/billions of followers who all are ready to kill or lose their lives to defend that they are right. The realization leads to examining the evidence which falls short of any proof at all.

who knows.

Is that you?

 

Sounds like the argument from design which is far from convincing, and I doubt if atheists would support the argument. Here are some similar positions.

So, everything in nature works in random? Follow random rules?

 

Wassalam,

Y

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Religion is being used as justification to try to kill my friends. I can't... just not say anything? You know?

You are losing the context, my friend. Peace.

 

Wassalam,

Y

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The dispute is not on the word Authority, but on someone

Thanks for clarifying..God is not the word authority but some one with authority?..making a lot more sense now and it totally changes what I said before.

True, but God has assigned the Prophet and ulama (Muslim scholars) the duties to explain anything that you want to ask bout Qur'an.

Right the Ulama... humans who often disagree :sl:...point was they are not the author.

 

Agnostics/agnotism falls under the category of non-Muslim

kkk watch this.. muslim is someone who submits..I submit to agnosticism :D ..or better yet I submit to a God that I don't thnk exist..therefore I am a muslim :D

I see why you do it now, fuzzy logic is fun stuff :j:

But yea I can't clarify it more then I did.. "non muslims" in the context used were people who don't believe in Quran or Hadith..It's like telling some one wants to learn about the invisible car to the invisible manual.

Now see how clearly me the author, explained what I meant and how it differed from what you the interpreter, understood.

 

 

Most of cases, gayness is psychological phenomena. Even if gay is born, then it doesn't mean that God is cruel, or gay activities are tolerable. So, your hermaphrodites doesn't make sense?

My hermaphrodites :no: ?

NVM...so gays are not all genetically homo..some turn that way on their own (maybe bcaz of Devil or America or both)

Still, even if 1 person is borned genetically gay, who is responsible for that person's doomed fate?

because on genetic level..You can't be ungay as much as you can't grow an extra arm.

 

Is that you?

It's Pete from down the block :sl:..but what if it were?

So, everything in nature works in random? Follow random rules?

Again, Never said that...nor that's the reason ( though maybe true) why argument from design fail.

Arguments says..nature resemble a design, for every design there is a designer and the designer is God.

The problems with the argument is the misuse of principle of analogy...the fact that designs often have few designers..etc etc.

 

Peace

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ok , looks like i will jump back in soon , because i can see where this is going

 

he might practice how to become a better atheists by arguing from the real ( GOD > Religion : System ) . i see what your doing atheists .. maybe not all of you but from your posts , i see that you are arguing to become better atheists by knowing that we have answers for everything and for you to build a new merry go round ride ; ps i really dont know how they keep track in the merry go round rides probebly they wait for it to come back and get back the loop lol .

 

 

brothers and sisters , the atheists are getting more knowledge in becoming better atheists to stregthen themselves and then they can go to the public and make any low knowledge muslim do shrk autho billah , it is like atheists career in life.

 

if im wrong about you guys then their is some , and some spam in Islamic channel ( paltalk ) , they use the information which i can see in this forum . the vise versa information ( like shooting muslims ) , muslims who were their was swaring back and not knowing .. some ask who knows the answer of that please post i need it now ... this means if we didnt answer him he might be thinking of it all night and this thought can do shrk !!!

 

May Allah Guide US , Ameen

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he might practice how to become a better atheists by arguing from the real ( GOD > Religion : System ) . i see what your doing atheists .. maybe not all of you but from your posts , i see that you are arguing to become better atheists by knowing that we have answers for everything and for you to build a new merry go round ride ; ps i really dont know how they keep track in the merry go round rides probebly they wait for it to come back and get back the loop lol .

I haven't the slightest idea what the above means. I'm not sure how you keep track of what you say either.

 

Are you implying Atheists are in denial? If so, then we would not be Atheists.

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Alright guys, I can see that this discussion is going nowhere. Since the current topic is “Atheist’s Psychology†we should focus on that.

As I stated previously there is normal distribution (variation) in any aspects, features or characteristics of individuals inside a given population of humans or even any living beings. That is why we count on current scientific evidence based on statistical analyses. Statistics assumes that normalcy in a population is ruled by Gaussian distribution.

As we have witnessed ourselves our atheist friends agree they don’t share common beliefs and values except they don’t believe in God.

 

We also understand that a single feature can’t define somebody’s psychology.

Thus, it would be better if each of our volunteer atheist friends come up with some answers to certain standard questions that would help them put their psychological status in more organized manner.

I suggest our brothers to come up with some good questions.

Let me start with my first question:

 

How do you feel about being born to this life without your consent and what is your explanation based on “reason†and evidence?

My second question:

 

How do you feel about dying most of the time without your own consent?

 

And:

 

How do you feel about dying at all?

 

Thanks!!! :J

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Salamz

 

Thus, it would be better if each of our volunteer atheist friends come up with some answers to certain standard questions that would help them put their psychological status in more organized manner

Ok I am not a hard atheist but I would like to be a happy volunteer...so call me SL1... and let the psycho analysis begin.

 

How do you feel about being born to this life without your consent and what is your explanation based on “reason†and evidence?

Well Bob, sometimes life is good, sometimes it sux..so feelings vary. I mean it’s kinda impossible to pre approve your own birth so not much choice there. Humans reproduce/multiple consuming all resources like viruses…I think it’s pretty cool stuff. :j:

 

How do you feel about dying most of the time without your own consent?

Considering I haven’t died many times during my life, I don’t know what it feels like :D ..but I’ve seen dead people ( unlike that liar kid in sixth sense :sl: ), they are pretty useless as they don’t move, talk or do anything, they just lay around and decay while their loved ones cry…interesting how people know that death is inevitable yet grief is immanent…....humans :sl:.

Anywho, I think dying probably sux. But then there are those who’s lives are miserable so death is probably their salvation..who knows :no:

And:

How do you feel about dying at all?

 

That's quite a cheerful theme u picked there Chief :D ..but yea I can’t tell ya how a fruit I never ate tastes like. From the hype, dieng probably sux..but no one really knows until they die….so yea death can mean no more party…but perhaps when I die, I'll become a ghost and walk through walls and haunt people (watchout Yasnov :D ) and do other cool stuff which does not suck. So knowing I am bound to die, I am cool with dying.

 

peace

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We also understand that a single feature can’t define somebody’s psychology.

Thus, it would be better if each of our volunteer atheist friends come up with some answers to certain standard questions that would help them put their psychological status in more organized manner.

Okay.

 

But there is no such thing as an 'Atheist Psychology'. Just to let you know, searching for an identity here is pointless.

 

How do you feel about being born to this life without your consent and what is your explanation based on “reason†and evidence?

I feel great about being born. I am alive.

 

What is my explanation for how I came to be? My parents engaged in sexual intercourse and did not terminate the pregnancy.

 

How do you feel about dying most of the time without your own consent?

I don't die 'most of the time'. An individual human only dies once. What do I think of this? An unfortunate consequence of reality. No-one is immortal.

 

How do you feel about dying at all?

A sad state of affairs. Everyone dies eventually, but it is always sad.

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Ok I am not a hard atheist but I would like to be a happy volunteer...so call me SL1... and let the psycho analysis begin.

Well Bob, sometimes life is good, sometimes it sux..so feelings vary. I mean it’s kinda impossible to pre approve your own birth so not much choice there. Humans reproduce/multiple consuming all resources like viruses…I think it’s pretty cool stuff. :j:

 

Well the question is about how do you feel about it currently, right now, and also what do you think about the reason for this incident? I mean your emotions and your reasoning about this event, not somebody else’s.

And what about the part that you don't have any say in the decision making of this crucial for you incident?

 

Considering I haven’t died many times during my life, I don’t know what it feels like :D ..but I’ve seen dead people ( unlike that liar kid in sixth sense :sl: ), they are pretty useless as they don’t move, talk or do anything, they just lay around and decay while their loved ones cry…interesting how people know that death is inevitable yet grief is immanent…....humans :sl:.

Anywho, I think dying probably sux. But then there are those who’s lives are miserable so death is probably their salvation..who knows :no:

 

I know you wouldn't know how would it feel like dying, but my questions are regarding your emotions and reasoning about dying. What death means to you as a person. Is it an important concept or you just prefer not to think about it?

 

That's quite a cheerful theme u picked there Chief :D ..but yea I can’t tell ya how a fruit I never ate tastes like. From the hype, dieng probably sux..but no one really knows until they die….so yea death can mean no more party…but perhaps when I die, I'll become a ghost and walk through walls and haunt people (watchout Yasnov :D ) and do other cool stuff which does not suck. So knowing I am bound to die, I am cool with dying.

 

Why do you think you are bound to die? Evidence? Do you mean your organic body dies or you as a spiritual being come to an end?

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But there is no such thing as an 'Atheist Psychology'. Just to let you know, searching for an identity here is pointless.

I feel great about being born. I am alive.

 

If there is a person calling himself "an atheist" he has a particular psychology supporting that important aspect of his personality. There are some generally accepted concepts, but the subjective experience of reliaty is the scope of our evaluation. You are a subject and you represent only yourself. Thus everybody should speak for themselves.

 

That is why it would be more helpful if we go by individual evaluation. We value your own thoughts and emotions not those that are written in "the textbook of Atheism".(Just kidding, I know there is no textbook for that... :sl:)

 

What is my explanation for how I came to be? My parents engaged in sexual intercourse and did not terminate the pregnancy.

 

I am not asking again

how
did it happen. That is what science all the time does - answers the question "How" not "why". I am only asking about your feelings regarding "no consent" issue on an important aspect of your life- the begining. How do you feel about having no say in your begining?

 

I don't die 'most of the time'. An individual human only dies once.

You very well know that "most of the time" here refers to the issue of consent, not about death. You don't determine the time and the nature of your own death, most of the time. Only a minority of humans is able to do that and that only via one way - a suicide. And yet, not everybody that tried to kill himself got successful. Thus still not in our control.

 

Now, how do you feel about the situation that you don't want to bring an end to your life? Why the life is precious?

And in this case you already know that you can exert some personal initiative regarding your death... Why don't you want to do that? And the reason?

 

What do I think of this? An unfortunate consequence of reality. No-one is immortal.

A sad state of affairs. Everyone dies eventually, but it is always sad.

 

What is fortune? If a life is destined to be followed by the death, is that an unexpected consequence? What does "unfortunate" mean here?

 

Why is sad to die, if it is natural? Is it sad to the person or to the others who are still alive?

Why?

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If there is a person calling himself "an atheist" he has a particular psychology supporting that important aspect of his personality.

Since when was disbelief in God an important part of an Atheists personality? It is not at all for me.

 

did it happen. That is what science all the time does - answers the question "How" not "why". I am only asking about your feelings regarding "no consent" issue on an important aspect of your life- the begining. How do you feel about having no say in your begining?

Absolutely fine. It was impossible for me to have any say in my beginning anyway.

 

You very well know that "most of the time" here refers to the issue of consent, not about death. You don't determine the time and the nature of your own death, most of the time.

Okay.

 

Now, how do you feel about the situation that you don't want to bring an end to your life?

Very upset when it happens.

 

Why the life is precious?

Because all evidence indicates it is the only life and therefore I feel it is important to make use of it. And equally, I do enjoy my existence.

 

And in this case you already know that you can exert some personal initiative regarding your death... Why don't you want to do that? And the reason?

Why do I not want to die? Because I like living.

 

I fail to see how you think these questions have any kind of usefulness to anything. Generally speaking, humanity wants to survive and flourish be it for themselves or what they consider to be God.

 

What is fortune? If a life is destined to be followed by the death, is that an unexpected consequence? What does "unfortunate" mean here?

It is not unexpected, it is inevitable.

 

Unfortunate here means negative. It is a sad state of affairs, seeing someone you love die.

 

Why is sad to die, if it is natural?

Because what is the case is not the same as what ought the case.

 

Is it sad to the person or to the others who are still alive?

Why?

Generally, both. Why? I don't know. You would have to ask people who are grieving for their loss. I do not speak for everyone.

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Absolutely fine. It was impossible for me to have any say in my beginning anyway.

Very upset when it happens.

So you are happy when you are brought to a form of a living being and you are sad when it is taken from you. And you don't care why this all happens? You just want to enjoy the experience between those two points? What is the meaning of all this drama? You have the freedom to disregard those questions but let other decide for themselves. They can choose ask those questions and formulate thier own answers. Closing your eyes doesn't mean the world dissapears from existing, it is still there in front of your eyes. If you can only dare to open them.

 

Because all evidence indicates it is the only life and therefore I feel it is important to make use of it. And equally, I do enjoy my existence.

 

What evidence? Based on what? Your 5 senses? Fine. I do have an extra one: the sense for God and it brings peace into my life. If you don't have it I can't do anything about it. It is only you that can do anything about it. That is one sense that you can earn by yourself. If you are not trying to activate it, no way to experience it. There are numerous ways to achieve it. I got it by reasoning and rational thinking and I can tell you it feels great. I enjoy my life better than before. Great peace. I couldn't have imagined it before. Way better than any moment I had while I was atheist. I do strongly recommend it... A great way of enjoying this life! :sl:

Why don't you try to experience it. Even if only for the sake of that great experience? It is temporary life after all...

 

Why do I not want to die? Because I like living.

I like living, too. And I want to live forever. My desire beats your limited one. :sl:

 

Generally speaking, humanity wants to survive and flourish be it for themselves or what they consider to be God.

You still can't answer why? Is it because you don't care about the question why in general, or you just want to ask it for things you can perceive?

 

Unfortunate here means negative. It is a sad state of affairs, seeing someone you love die.

Just imagine if you never die. Would you prefer to enjoy a temporary life or eternal one. Is there giong to be that much surrow for this temporary life?

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So you are happy when you are brought to a form of a living being and you are sad when it is taken from you.

On hindsight, I look back and smile that I happened to be born. It made me self-aware. It was the start of everything I amount to now. I am pretty sure everyone who does not want to commit suicide is happy for their birth.

 

And you don't care why this all happens?

I know why it happens. My parents had sexual intercourse which resulted in me. Sometime in the future, old age, my own stupidity or my own bad luck will take my life.

 

You just want to enjoy the experience between those two points? What is the meaning of all this drama?

To paraphrase: What is the meaning of life?

 

The only answer you will ever get on the meaning of life beyond the biological necessity of reproduction for the continuation of the species is a subjective one. So, to objectivity it: To meaning of life is to live it, in whatever way you feel necessary.

 

You have the freedom to disregard those questions but let other decide for themselves. They can choose ask those questions and formulate thier own answers. Closing your eyes doesn't mean the world dissapears from existing, it is still there in front of your eyes. If you can only dare to open them.

Correct. What is your point?

 

What evidence? Based on what? Your 5 senses? Fine.

The fact that I am incapable of existence outside of my body. When I eventually die, my body shuts down. The brain stops working, the heart stops beating and I start rotting. We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any individual defying the natural process of life and living after they die. There is no reason to invoke superstition to suppose an eternal life or an afterlife. We simply lack the objective evidence.

 

I do have an extra one: the sense for God and it brings peace into my life. If you don't have it I can't do anything about it.

I have no reason to think this 'sense' you have is anything more than trust, or faith in something that you believe is real. It is no more wonderful than a Christian telling me how happy he is.

 

It is only you that can do anything about it. That is one sense that you can earn by yourself. If you are not trying to activate it, no way to experience it. There are numerous ways to achieve it. I got it by reasoning and rational thinking and I can tell you it feels great.

You want me to 'earn' a new sense that you call the sense for God. Firstly, you would have to actually demonstrate the existence of this God.

 

I enjoy my life better than before. Great peace. I couldn't have imagined it before. Way better than any moment I had while I was atheist. I do strongly recommend it... A great way of enjoying this life! yes.gif

I am glad belief in God gives you peace. What exactly does this have to do with anything?

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Why don't you try to experience it. Even if only for the sake of that great experience? It is temporary life after all...

Because I cannot force myself to believe something that I don't believe in. And I see no reason to experience it.

 

Your appeal to emotion does not impress me.

 

I like living, too. And I want to live forever. My desire beats your limited one. w00t.gif

So?

 

Your desire however has no bearing necessarily with what is actually true.

 

You still can't answer why? Is it because you don't care about the question why in general, or you just want to ask it for things you can perceive?

Why does humanity want to flourish? We have a natural instinct to survive.

 

Why do you think that humanity wants to flourish?

 

Just imagine if you never die. Would you prefer to enjoy a temporary life or eternal one. Is there giong to be that much surrow for this temporary life?

Of course I would like to live eternally.

 

My desires however, does not necessarily have anything to do with what is true.

Edited by Skavau

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Well the question is about how do you feel about it currently, right now, and also what do you think about the reason for this incident? I mean your emotions and your reasoning about this event, not somebody else’s.

And what about the part that you don't have any say in the decision making of this crucial for you incident?

I feel fine, death is evidentally a part of the reality we live in so I made my peace with it...

I mean human population has been growing exponentially and all young people do is bump uglies to contribute to the issue at hand...stupid humans :sl:

So death sux yet is important method of population control necessary to to sustain life in this planet where resources are scarce. I don't have control over it just like I don't have control over other forces of nature like gravity etc..So I don't have say in lots of stuff , that's cool by me ..the undemocratic nature of nature...is cool by me. :sl:

 

I know you wouldn't know how would it feel like dying, but my questions are regarding your emotions and reasoning about dying. What death means to you as a person. Is it an important concept or you just prefer not to think about it?

Why do you think you are bound to die? Evidence? Do you mean your organic body dies or you as a spiritual being come to an end?

So death sux, yet it's a necessary component of life and inevitable..Call me cold blooded human but I prefer realist.

Every one who lived, died ( leace Jesus out of this) so it's an axiomatic ....and to ask me for proof of death to come is childish, you know well it will come as everything we experience in real world is finite.

I have attended funerals..often friends and relatives....I don't always feel sad or choked up because again...it's not un expected..It only sucks worse when death is due to an accident or leave the family in bad position dependency wise...

(also here is where life insurence is haram concept kinda rubs in).

 

Why do you think you are bound to die? Evidence? Do you mean your organic body dies or you as a spiritual being come to an end?

Again organic body dies is self evident/axiom so no point entertaining the counter argument.

Now Spiritual death, I have no clue what spirit is like nor have any reason to presuppose that we have a soul or whether is lives or dies as well. I have examined religious doctrines about the concept of soul or the cycle..but there are countless theories and no way to separate myths from reality, so what will happen to soul heavily relies on acknowledging that it exists first.. I don't think about it much as it's like like theorizing about a theory.

 

Peace

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I know why it happens. My parents had sexual intercourse which resulted in me. Sometime in the future, old age, my own stupidity or my own bad luck will take my life.

To paraphrase: What is the meaning of life?

 

Again that is how you come to this world. If I ask you how did you go to New York from London. You would probably reply by plane. That is HOW. But if I ask you why are you here in NYC, then you probably won't reply by refering to the plane as the reason, I hope!!! :D

But rarely there are always exceptions. There are a few people falling in that situation. They got on the plane by accident. So they don't know what are they doing. That doesn't speak that well for them. Surely they would amuse everybody. But you have to admit they are so rare. So are you one of those jokers or you are playing stupid?

So I don't accept your answer as reasonable. Try somethig else! :no:

 

The only answer you will ever get on the meaning of life beyond the biological necessity of reproduction for the continuation of the species is a subjective one.

Are you trying to say you are living an objective life? You are not the subject, are you the system? Do you live your own subjective life or do you live for the society? Comon get serious! The purpose of this discussion to get ot your subjective opinion not to read lines from your textbook of Atheism!:sl:

 

So, to objectivity it: To meaning of life is to live it, in whatever way you feel necessary.

Correct. What is your point?

 

What is the meaning of living a temporary life? Just living! Is that one of your evidences...

 

Objectively or subjectively, doesn't matter give me a serious answer!

 

The fact that I am incapable of existence outside of my body. When I eventually die, my body shuts down. The brain stops working, the heart stops beating and I start rotting. We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any individual defying the natural process of life and living after they die.

 

What drives the organic body? Organic body is the hardware. What happens to the sofware? When you shut off your computer is it dead? I can get the hard disk out an use in another computer. Or I can even make a backup file online and recover the whole system on another computer?

 

There is no reason to invoke superstition to suppose an eternal life or an afterlife.

We simply lack the objective evidence.

 

Did it cross your mind that may be this is the purpose of this temporary life. Just to find a way to explain its meaning?

 

I have no reason to think this 'sense' you have is anything more than trust, or faith in something that you believe is real.

 

You like it or not it is my experience and it is real for me? What authority do you have to claim you know what is inside my brain? Science still can't identify how the thinking process works. If I say I am happy what authority do you have to challange me? Do you sound realistic? :sl:

 

You want me to 'earn' a new sense that you call the sense for God. Firstly, you would have to actually demonstrate the existence of this God.

Well, sorry. You get to keep what you earn. You earn it it is yours. I can only give a message. You can try to confirm or deny it.

 

I am glad belief in God gives you peace. What exactly does this have to do with anything?

 

That has a lot to tell you what a wonderful life might be... After all it is one life. Don't you want to live it well? :j:

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Again that is how you come to this world.

Okay. Why did I come to this world? My parents decided not to abort.

 

I don't know what else you would be expecting as an answer.

 

If I ask you how did you go to New York from London. You would probably reply by plane. That is HOW. But if I ask you why are you here in NYC, then you probably won't reply by refering to the plane as the reason, I hope!!! biggrin.gif

Your example is flawed. I can tell you why I am in New York there because I presumably came with a set purpose. I cannot tell you why I was born other than just referring to the fact that my parents wanted a child.

 

Are you trying to say you are living an objective life? You are not the subject, are you the system? Do you live your own subjective life or do you live for the society? Comon get serious!

No. I live a subjective life and I live as an individual.

 

The purpose of this discussion to get ot your subjective opinion not to read lines from your textbook of Atheism!:sl:

I am doing that, but you won't accept my answers.

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What is the meaning of living a temporary life? Just living! Is that one of your evidences...

I supply no evidences for the purpose of life. There is no need. People all have different reasons for wanting to live.

 

Objectively or subjectively, doesn't matter give me a serious answer!

I can only tell you why I want to live - and it is a formal logical fallacy. I want to live because I like living.

 

What drives the organic body? Organic body is the hardware. What happens to the sofware? When you shut off your computer is it dead? I can get the hard disk out an use in another computer. Or I can even make a backup file online and recover the whole system on another computer?

Your computer example is nonsense. The computer quite simply is not the human body. The human body must be active at all times. A computer does not.

 

Did it cross your mind that may be this is the purpose of this temporary life. Just to find a way to explain its meaning?

No.

 

You like it or not it is my experience and it is real for me? What authority do you have to claim you know what is inside my brain? Science still can't identify how the thinking process works. If I say I am happy what authority do you have to challange me? Do you sound realistic? wacko.gif

I'm not claiming anything about your brain. But I still have no reason to believe your basis for your trust in God or 'God Sense' is anything but trust.

 

Well, sorry. You get to keep what you earn. You earn it it is yours. I can only give a message. You can try to confirm or deny it.

Are you being purposely obtuse?

 

That has a lot to tell you what a wonderful life might be... After all it is one life. Don't you want to live it well? wink.gif

I do, thanks.

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Okay. Why did I come to this world? My parents decided not to abort.

May be that is what they tell you. May be they don't want to confess they didn't want you but it was too late for a legal abortion. How do you know?

 

Most of the time couples don't even plan to have kids. Especially nowdays it is more like an accident. And after they discover the fact then they decide what to do with it. So no conscious role of your parents...

 

Your mom and dad were a medium for the origin of your existance. They didn't invent the way of repoduction. They just happen to do whatever they were designed to do. And yet not everybody who copulates gets pregnant.

 

Com'on get serious. You know what I mean. What is the meaning of this whole chain of life starting from the first human being till you come into the picture. Why is all of this repoduction process taking place?

 

Do you care or not?

 

Your example is flawed. I can tell you why I am in New York there because I presumably came with a set purpose. I cannot tell you why I was born other than just referring to the fact that my parents wanted a child.

What about those who never planned it? Or those who desperately want but can't ever get pregnant?

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I supply no evidences for the purpose of life. There is no need. People all have different reasons for wanting to live.

Great! Thak you. I don't need to give you any evidence about God, either. No need. Are we even? :sl:

 

I can only tell you why I want to live - and it is a formal logical fallacy. I want to live because I like living.

Cool with me. I like to live well forever. That makes more sense to me.

 

Your computer example is nonsense. The computer quite simply is not the human body. The human body must be active at all times. A computer does not.

Mine is active 24/7. Get better one. You can choose not accept the point. We don't have to see thing the same. Because as a scientific fact we don't.

 

What organic value your intelligence and emotions have?

Where are they located? If you can't locate them are you giong to deny them?

When I am reading this your very message, what part of your organic existance I am witnessing?

How do you describe the material aspect of the term information and knowledge?

 

I'm not claiming anything about your brain. But I still have no reason to believe your basis for your trust in God or 'God Sense' is anything but trust.

You can describe it as unbelievable phenomenon, but that doesn't change the fact that I am experiencing it.

 

It is a scientific fact that there are brain centers responsible for religious experiences. You have them too. But you are not activating them, you supress them. Your thoughts never get deeper enough to reach them and activate them. May be if you get temporal epilepsy you will get to experience what I am feeling. But why don't try the healthier way?

 

So you like it or not, we are hardwired to believe in God. And our history proves that religion was with us since the earliest human historical record.

But in accordance to the normal Gaussian ditribution not everybody gets to believe at the same level. You are probably located beyond -2SD, and that is why you don't experience it. There is a nice BBC documentary on that issue, here: you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=79...h&plindex=1

 

Is that a good evidence to convince you that believing in God is a natural thing?

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I feel fine, death is evidentally a part of the reality we live in so I made my peace with it...

I mean human population has been growing exponentially and all young people do is bump uglies to contribute to the issue at hand...stupid humans :sl:

So death sux yet is important method of population control necessary to to sustain life in this planet where resources are scarce. I don't have control over it just like I don't have control over other forces of nature like gravity etc..So I don't have say in lots of stuff , that's cool by me ..the undemocratic nature of nature...is cool by me. :sl:

So death sux, yet it's a necessary component of life and inevitable..Call me cold blooded human but I prefer realist.

Every one who lived, died ( leace Jesus out of this) so it's an axiomatic ....and to ask me for proof of death to come is childish, you know well it will come as everything we experience in real world is finite.

 

You were born without your consent, you lived without knowing why and you will die withour your consent. You are cool with all of this. You don't care what happens to you or to anybody else. Careless life. No problem.

Then why out of sudden you care about Muslims' view of life? Why do you care about evidence for existance of God?

You didn't try to get any evidence for anything in your life. But yet you are so interested to oppose those who believe otherwise... Why? Why do you spend your life here with us?

 

I have attended funerals..often friends and relatives....I don't always feel sad or choked up because again...it's not un expected..It only sucks worse when death is due to an accident or leave the family in bad position dependency wise...

(also here is where life insurence is haram concept kinda rubs in).

 

My friend the great thing about this life is everybody gets its own path in life. You choose how to live and you get whatever you deserve. If you live for this life you get this life. But nobody ends in the same grave. Each of us gets a special unique life. No two similars.

 

There is no objective evidence to support the rightousness of any path. There are probabilities. In any given occasion you are faced with finite number of options, not infinite. The reality is that there are numerous finite ways you can take. You choose its attraction and its responsibility. That is the only thing we have in our control. The process of choosing our paths in our life. The rest is pre-designed for us. We walk our ways in this journey of life and come to an end with our death.

 

If you didn't aim a destination, you mostly don't get there. If you only cruised around you end up nowhere.

 

But if you had a particular direction you at least have a hope to reach close to it. You may reach it or not, it is still a valid path with a certain trajectory.

 

It is the choice of atheist to live without hope. Then be it. But don't judge me because I am different and I choose to live by a hope. That is my only power in this life. To choose a certain direction. The good thing is, once we die we will know the answer in either way. If nothing happens you were right. For me no big loss. I don't like meaningless life.

 

But if I was right and there is God I wonder what your situation would be. I would feel so sorry for you. You would have waisted your life in blind wandering. You wouldn't be happy about eternal hell.

 

Religion is about finding meaning in this temporary life. Because whatever we see don't satisfy us. It is about searching for hope. It is based on faith and reason. Not on evidence. Evidence is for science.

 

No matter how usefull is science, life itself is not science. Life is desires, hopes, dissapointments, love, hate, friendship... If you don't have any of those I am affraid I can't call that life a life... Yet there are people like that. Gaussian distribution, you know...

Thus everybody enjoys its place in that distribution. Let me stick to my place and enjoy the hope and beauty of life, the greatness of the devine order and harmony...

 

Again organic body dies is self evident/axiom so no point entertaining the counter argument.

Now Spiritual death, I have no clue what spirit is like nor have any reason to presuppose that we have a soul or whether is lives or dies as well. I have examined religious doctrines about the concept of soul or the cycle..but there are countless theories and no way to separate myths from reality, so what will happen to soul heavily relies on acknowledging that it exists first.. I don't think about it much as it's like like theorizing about a theory.

 

Anything that defines your personality, emotions,thoughts and your intelligence can't be explained by organic matter. There is higher organization in the brain we still can't figure out. That is what we refer as spirit or soul. If we don't have evidence about how a thougth is formed we don't simply conclude that it doesn't exist. But it is your choice of reasoning, you can do that, too. You may be right. Not everybody thinks.

 

If we were discussing some 300 years ago and If I claimed that there are some elctromagnetic waves in the air would you believed me? Probably you wouldn't. You would ask for evidence. And then you got your evidence.

But that is not how science works. If there is any human progress in the history that is because there were crazy people believeing in different possibilities. But you can choose to be stationary.

 

In religion there is claim of God and there is a proof but, here is the difference, we only get it once we die. You don't have much to choose. Either you belive or you don't. If you take the bet you are in. 50-50 chance. I just say, no worries. Once we die me and you will be answered.

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