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CelticKnight

Embryology

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Peace, CN

 

In order to debate whether there are errors in the Qur'an, we must use the original Arabic and not the English translation. Of course there are errors in the English translation. Unless you are talking about the Qur'an and not The Meaning of the Qur'an by Yusufali, your arguments are a moot point.

 

Let us take a look at Surat at-Tariq, ayahs 6 and 7, word by word:

 

6) Khuliqa mim mimaaa indaafiq

7) Yakhruju mim baynis sulbi wat-taraaa ib

 

min or mim: conjuction, meaning from, in this case

 

bayna or baynis: between

 

yakhruju: Proceeding, originating

 

maaa: liquid

 

So, from ayah 6, we know that the noun that Allah is talking about is the maaa (liquid). In ayah 7, Allah says that this ma originates from a place between the sulbi and taraaib. It doesn't mean that the sulbi and taraaib is where the liquid is coming from, but rather, the place of origin is between these two body parts. Allahu 'Alim. If I kick a field goal and it goes between the uprights, does that mean I hit both uprights?

 

I know I posted a lot of different miracles on my post, and we can't debate them all, so if you'd like, I'll invite you to another topic where we can debate the following verses.

 

The Big Bang

The Expansion of the Universe

The Function of Mountains

Chest contraction with ascending height

 

If Muhammad :saas: could not have known this from Galen or Hippocrates anyway. A) because he was illiterate, and B ) None of his enemies ever said "You got this from Galen" or whoever. So, even if he could read, how could he have been educated about Galen when this man's works were scarcely heard of by any of the Arabs at that time?

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Peace CelticKnight!

 

Here it is simply a question of understanding. Each person's ability to understand is governed by two things. His knowledge and power of understanding, and his willingness to understand. If either, or both, are lacking, the result will be a negative conclusion. An esteemed scholar has commented on the verse as follows:

 

 

 

Peace out

 

See, thats not a refute to what I said. And in another post I said:

 

 

"In the Hadith, Muhammad was given a revelation from the angel Gabriel as to why a child resembles the father sometimes, and other times the mother. The angel told him that it depends on which parent reaches their sexual climax first during conception (Bukhari 4:546). This has been disproved by genetics."

 

Now, as a Muslim, can I outright reject teaching of "science". You and I both know that is a completely false statement. We know why children look like their' parents, so how could you now say this writing is another revelation when this "revelation" is completely wrong?

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I did support it with evidence. I challenged the viewer to challenge me. All I get it "you don't have the understanding"

I apologize for a previous statement saying my posts were deleted. I was in error. I am not used to using a forum.

I have also refuted the point about someone claiming that embryology was first revealed in the Koran, and Professor Moore was used as a source, ...yet in his 6th edition, Moore refers to an essay that shows that this claim is also false, and that the part about embryology was written around 150 bc by another. He has changed his position, but somehow, I don't see it anywhere here.

 

continued..............

 

I have challenged your evidence, but I have not received a satisfactory response. You have made a statement that Moore retracted. I questioned the retraction and you have res[ponded with a statement, and I quote: "in his 6th edition, Moore refers to an essay that shows that this claim is also false". I have the third edition with a Foreward signed by him stating

For the past three years, I have worked with the Embryology Committee of King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, helping them to interpret the many statements in the Qur'an and SUnnah referring to human reproduction and prenatal development. At firsdt I was astonished by the accuracy of the statements that were recorded in the 7th century AD, before the science of embryology was established.....
This is dated September 1983 in Toronto, Canada.

 

I do not know what essay he is referring to.

 

Everything you have posted is there. Learn to use a forum, if you are not familiar. More so, to back up your claims with proper evidence. Flimsy statements won't get you anywhere.

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If you are a Muslim, as your profile states, do you know that you have made a statement that is kufr. You are on the verge of apostasy.

 

I may have made a mistake. I am not a Muslim. I am a believer in God....do not follow the cult religions that some christian churches offer.

Is proving someone wrong Apostasy?

 

I am sorry, you really are not familiar with forums. Makes me wonder...... :D

 

Go back and see who my post was quoting.

 

A believer in which God.......? Who is talking about cults here.......?

 

Look up the meaning of apostasy before you try to define it.

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I have challenged your evidence, but I have not received a satisfactory response. You have made a statement that Moore retracted. I questioned the retraction and you have res[ponded with a statement, and I quote: "in his 6th edition, Moore refers to an essay that shows that this claim is also false". I have the third edition with a Foreward signed by him stating This is dated September 1983 in Toronto, Canada.

 

I do not know what essay he is referring to.

 

Everything you have posted is there. Learn to use a forum, if you are not familiar. More so, to back up your claims with proper evidence. Flimsy statements won't get you anywhere.

 

Flimsy statements? This is how you respond to what I said about Moore. Ok, more plainly, And what Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who is often quoted. If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo:

 

Thats more like proper evidence refuting what someone previously said. So here I am quoting from Moore's book, and it's called a flimsy statement.

 

And then the matter of my previous post showing that Osama Abdallah claimed some professor in france backed up his theories...when no such professor exists. It was a lie. Yet that is flimsy too?

 

This will be my last post here. I have asked questions sincerely, and all I have gotten is doubletalk. You use the Koran as "evidence", yet when I quote Dr. Moores latest book, thats called flimsy evidence.

I previously stated also that YOU DON'T GET HOW YOU LOOK BY WHETHER YOUR MOTHER OR FATHER HAD AN ORGASM FIRST. Thats basic Genetics. The Prophet claimed you do. So I tell you Genetics state otherwise...thats not flimsy evidence.

Where is your evidence that Genetic science is wrong, and your writings are true? But of course, Genetics is flimsy evidence, right?

I have spent 3 years in med school now, and if you ever came into a class and tried to use the logic you used, people would question your sanity. To present straight out facts and have them called flimsy is sad.

 

You all have a good life....

Now I understand why people told me never to try to question Islam....that if I was interested, I would have to JUST JOIN and not question. Reminds me of the Branch Davidians where Koresh made people blindly accept his teachings and never let anyone question.

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Flimsy statements? This is how you respond to what I said about Moore. Ok, more plainly, And what Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who is often quoted. If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo:

 

......

 

This will be my last post here. I have asked questions sincerely, and all I have gotten is doubletalk. You use the Koran as "evidence", yet when I quote Dr. Moores latest book, thats called flimsy evidence.

I previously stated also that YOU DON'T GET HOW YOU LOOK BY WHETHER YOUR MOTHER OR FATHER HAD AN ORGASM FIRST. Thats basic Genetics. The Prophet claimed you do. So I tell you Genetics state otherwise...thats not flimsy evidence.

Where is your evidence that Genetic science is wrong, and your writings are true? But of course, Genetics is flimsy evidence, right?

I have spent 3 years in med school now, and if you ever came into a class and tried to use the logic you used, people would question your sanity. To present straight out facts and have them called flimsy is sad.

 

You all have a good life....

Now I understand why people told me never to try to question Islam....that if I was interested, I would have to JUST JOIN and not question. Reminds me of the Branch Davidians where Koresh made people blindly accept his teachings and never let anyone question.

 

I say flimsy, because you have not even attempted to address the points I make. As an example, in my previous post, I typed a part of the Foreward to the third edition where he has stated, and I repeat for your convenience:

 

At first I was astonished bythe accuracy of the statements that were recorded in the 7th century AD......

 

Can you tell us what in this statement can be retracted, unless the person making the statement has something else between his ears.

 

You keep repeating the same statements and did not address my above quotation which was extremely relevant.

 

As for Basim Musallam, is he an authority on embryology? Can Professor Moore, after making the statements I quoted retract on the basis off what Basim has written? Can Basim prove that the knowledge of what had been written was available to Mohammed :D, if we go along with the false idea that he was the author? Can Basim understand enough conventional Arabic to comment on the Qur'an - apparently not, as he has erred in the meanings of the two words "al-Sulb" and "al-Taraayib". I have previously quoted from an eminent scholar to explain whatthey mean.

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Maybe I should have phrased that differently. What I should ask is this: As a Muslim, are you allowed to reject those teachings in the Koran which are completely wrong? By wrong I mean like the example I have given about ebryology. I have had some friends that are Muslim talk to me about convererting, and they used the example I gave as proof of the Koran. So that question would be, should they reject that argument and admit the anything about that was actually copied from other writers?

 

In order to answer your question which no one seems to have even read, no, you can not be a believer in the Quran and reject any part of it. First of all, if you are a Muslim and believe in the Quran, then you believe that the Quran is the word of God and not the word of man. Why then would God lie to us? He is the knower of the unseen and has more knowledge then we can even dream of, so the answer is no.

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PEACE CELTIC!!

 

I would like to answer your statement about The hadith of the babies VS genetics.

 

I just did a quick google search and came up with this...

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_fcd.ecitizen.gov.sg/ChildrenNParenthood"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_fcd.ecitizen.gov.sg/ChildrenNParenthood[/url]

 

It clearly states "Women should also avoid orgasms when trying for girls"

 

"When a woman has an orgasm, the body releases a kind of substance that makes the environment more alkaline, and hence more ideal for the male sperm to survive"

 

 

How do you respond to this? If the Hadith is true, Yet another proof of Islam!

Edited by leechingrabbit

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PEACE CELTIC!!

 

I would like to answer your statement about The hadith of the gender of the babies VS genetics.

 

I just did a quick google search and came up with this...

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_fcd.ecitizen.gov.sg/ChildrenNParenthood"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_fcd.ecitizen.gov.sg/ChildrenNParenthood[/url]

 

It clearly states "Women should also avoid orgasms when trying for girls"

 

"When a woman has an orgasm, the body releases a kind of substance that makes the environment more alkaline, and hence more ideal for the male sperm to survive"

How do you respond to this? If the Hadith is true, Yet another proof of Islam!

 

Assalamo AlaIkum, brother!

 

Jazak Allah khair. May Allah :D reward you. Excellent.

 

Wassalam

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