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The World Of Jinn & Devils

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:sl:

 

This is the most comprehensive book I have read on the subject in English. I believe it is a translation. Alhumdulilah, it is very researched and a reliable book from an excellent publishing company.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmissionislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/knowledge/books/JinnDevils.pdf"]The World of Jinn & Devils - In the Light of the Qur'an and Sunnah[/url] -By Umar S. Al-Ashqar Islamic Creed Series.

What are jinn and devils? Where do they live? How do they impact our life? This pioneering book draws from the Qur'an and hadith in answering questions about the critical Islamic belief in Al-Ghaib, the unseen. It discusses the wisdom behind their creation, interaction with humans, eyewitness accounts, need for knowledge about them and common misconceptions about their power. The book argues that despite the dominant secular world view that dismisses any un-observable phenomenon as non-existent, humans believe in the unseen. Furthermore, it is important to understand their place in creation to avoid satanic influences and come closer to Allah.

 

This Book is available for (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmissionislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/knowledge/books/JinnDevils.zip"]Download Zipped[/url] or(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmissionislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/knowledge/books/JinnDevils.pdf"] view as Pdf[/url]

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Assalam Alaikum

 

I've this book and trust me, this is a MUST READ for everyone on this earth especially who believe in Astrology etc.. which are forbidden in Islam.

 

It had opened my heart and mind regarding all other religions too, esp. for Hinduism & Sikhism as I was a student of these religions before.

 

The best way to know about this book is to READ IT YOURSELF..

 

May Allah swt give us taufeeq to understand the Quran and Sunnah.. ameen

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As-salamu 'alaykum

 

Have any of you read any of the other books in his creed series? If so, any feedback on them?

 

I have a hard copy of his "The Names and Attributes of Allah According to the Doctrine of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah", which is an amazing book although it is not part of his creed series.

 

Jazakum Allahu khayran!

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:sl:

 

I have only read this book of his (the one I posted), and it was good masha' Allah, though I was expecting a bit more. It's very thorough, nevertheless.

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:sl:

 

I have only read this book of his (the one I posted), and it was good masha' Allah, though I was expecting a bit more. It's very thorough, nevertheless.

salaam ukhti...

i could not help commenting on the prayer under your name..."ya Allah make me better than what they think, and (i forget this part but it was also something about their perception of you).......forgive me for what they know not"...

ofocurse it is a very deep and meaningful prayer,,ameeen ya arham-arraahimeen....but i would not choose it as a permenant addition to my 'icon/photo/nickname/frontpage'

i have read this dua'a..

ilaika rabbi f habbibni

v fi nafsi laka rabbi f zallilni

v fi a'yuni-nnaas f a'zzimni

v a'laa siraat al mustaqeem f thabbitni

v a'laa ahsan al-ikhlaq f qavvamni

v a'la al-a'adaa..a'adika...a'aada'a al-Islam f ansurni

allahumma ansurni v laa tansur aliyya

v amkur li v laa tamkur aliyaa

v laa tusallit aliyaa bizunoobi mun laa yarhamni(like the gaza episode)

allahummaa rabbi, habbib illiyya al-imaan v zayyienhu fi qalbi

v karreh iliyya alkufra val; fusooqa val i'syaan

allahumaaa aja'alni min-arrashideen

sometimes i add to it

allahumaa aja'lni min ashuhdaa fi sabilik....shahaadatan yuballighuni rizaakaa...amen.

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I still think the world of jinn and devils is the world of superstition. Are Muslims monotheists or not?

 

The world of Jinn and devils is very real, even according to the Bible.

 

Matthew 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

 

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

8:30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.

8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

8:33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.

8:34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

 

Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.

 

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

 

Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

 

Luke 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

 

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

 

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

 

Now, I know you probably have a fancy spin for all of these passages that suit your view but they are quite clear, namely regarding the fact that devils actually do exist and are not based on superstition.

 

I just woder what your opinion is on witches who raise spirits according to the Bible and the commandement to kill a witch? Superstition?

 

And as for your question, I find it distasteful.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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I still think the world of jinn and devils is the world of superstition. Are Muslims monotheists or not?

 

So you don't believe in spirits or fallen angels?

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So you don't believe in spirits or fallen angels?

Not fallen angels - I see very little Biblical evidence for that.

 

Spritis - I do believe that God "makes His angel spirits" (as it says in the Psalms) and that God is the only Spirit - "God is Spirit" Jesus said.

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The world of Jinn and devils is very real, even according to the Bible.

 

Matthew 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

 

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

8:30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.

8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

8:33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.

8:34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

 

Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.

 

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

 

Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

 

Luke 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

 

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

 

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

 

Now, I know you probably have a fancy spin for all of these passages that suit your view but they are quite clear, namely regarding the fact that devils actually do exist and are not based on superstition.

The fancy spin I have is only relevant to the backdrop of the times in that Judaism had become very superstitious by the time of Christ, and theya ttributed mental illness and elipsy to demon-possession and used all kinds of incantations and superstitious means of "exorcism".

 

The difference with Christ was that He totally demythisied these conceptions by healing people with mental illness so that they were "in their rights minds".

 

I just woder what your opinion is on witches who raise spirits according to the Bible and the commandement to kill a witch? Superstition?

The Bible forbids such things so I never practice it. I believe that is more sorcery rather than superstition.

 

And as for your question, I find it distasteful.

I apologise - but I wanted to explore how Muslims - who are monotheists - reconcile their belief in other supernatural powers (deities) to their belief in the One Supernatural Power. I did not intend to be rude, but I am genuinely interested in how Muslims reconcile this. But I am sorry if I caused you offence.

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Not fallen angels - I see very little Biblical evidence for that.

 

Spritis - I do believe that God "makes His angel spirits" (as it says in the Psalms) and that God is the only Spirit - "God is Spirit" Jesus said.

 

And what abou Satan? Is he not on the list as well?

 

Afterall Satan is a fallen angel, thats a fact.

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The fancy spin I have is only relevant to the backdrop of the times in that Judaism had become very superstitious by the time of Christ, and theya ttributed mental illness and elipsy to demon-possession and used all kinds of incantations and superstitious means of "exorcism".

 

The difference with Christ was that He totally demythisied these conceptions by healing people with mental illness so that they were "in their rights minds".

 

Well, it seems that Jesus(pbuh) used these incantations, too, since he drove spirits into herds of pigs if we went by your word. The New Testament gives a clear picture of devils, they are not just fragments of imagination, instead they are quite clear. By the way, Jesus(pbuh) doesn't deny the Pharisees' belief of devils, he only denies that he is helped by devils. Notice, when Jesus(pbuh) is accused of being helped by devils, he doesn't say that the devils are not real, therefore, this talk of "Christ demythising" the concept of devils is absolutely baseless.

 

By the way, mainstream Christianity disagrees with you and so does the mainstream interpretation of the text which is quite clear. I am 100% confident that every person in the past who read that text regarding devils and excorcism understood literally like me and not like you. Check out ancient commentaries, check out the commentaries of the Church Fathers who preserved the religion, and see if they agree with your fringe opinion.

 

I apologise - but I wanted to explore how Muslims - who are monotheists - reconcile their belief in other supernatural powers (deities) to their belief in the One Supernatural Power. I did not intend to be rude, but I am genuinely interested in how Muslims reconcile this. But I am sorry if I caused you offence.

 

The Jinn are not deities, they are creations of God and they were created to serve Him, the only deity, and will be judged. Just because the Jinn have powers that can be considered supernatural, it doesn't mean that they are deities. For example, we do not consider the Angels(pbut) deities although they are what you might call supernatural.

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And what abou Satan? Is he not on the list as well?

 

Afterall Satan is a fallen angel, thats a fact.

What proof is there of that fact? Can you give me some?

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Well, it seems that Jesus(pbuh) used these incantations, too, since he drove spirits into herds of pigs if we went by your word. The New Testament gives a clear picture of devils, they are not just fragments of imagination, instead they are quite clear. By the way, Jesus(pbuh) doesn't deny the Pharisees' belief of devils, he only denies that he is helped by devils. Notice, when Jesus(pbuh) is accused of being helped by devils, he doesn't say that the devils are not real, therefore, this talk of "Christ demythising" the concept of devils is absolutely baseless.

Jesus didn't use incantations - that was the difference between Him and the pharisees. Jesus commanded and people were healed - no incantations.

 

We have to remember there were no mental asylums back in those days - today mentally ill people are cared for in special institutions - back then they were in the community (though many of the driven up north to Galilee. Jesus never drove out a single demon in Judea in the south - they were all up north where the mentally people and other socially excluded people were driven).

 

By the way, mainstream Christianity disagrees with you and so does the mainstream interpretation of the text which is quite clear. I am 100% confident that every person in the past who read that text regarding devils and excorcism understood literally like me and not like you. Check out ancient commentaries, check out the commentaries of the Church Fathers who preserved the religion, and see if they agree with your fringe opinion.

Yes I am quite aware I am in a minority - most Christians (particularly evangelical fundies) would not agree with me. There is a lot of superstition in mainstream Christianity - I've seen it and also seen so-called Christian "exorcisms". They were all imaginery - howbeit if a person genuinely believes they are "possessed" it;'s no good arguining with them about it.

 

Nevertheless I do try to keep an open minds because I admit I do not know everything and I could be wrong.

 

I don't know about the Quran, but the bible does not reveal anything about the creation of "jinn" or "demons" by God. The only thing it does say is that demons (sheddim in the Hebrew) are "elohim which are no elohim" (ie - they are gods/deities which are no gods (except in the minds of those who believe they exist of course).

 

The Jinn are not deities, they are creations of God and they were created to serve Him, the only deity, and will be judged. Just because the Jinn have powers that can be considered supernatural, it doesn't mean that they are deities. For example, we do not consider the Angels(pbut) deities although they are what you might call supernatural.

I quite agree that angels have supernatural powers yet are not deities - but Scripture tells us that they "do God's bidding". Angels are a manifestation of God to do His will and work. But taken to the same conclusion God/Allah would be manifesting himself as a jinn/demon if so be that God/Allah are the only source of supernatural power.

 

So, do you believe then that there are two sources of supernatural power? A good source and a bad source? If so, isn't that dualism?

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Jesus didn't use incantations - that was the difference between Him and the pharisees. Jesus commanded and people were healed - no incantations.

 

We have to remember there were no mental asylums back in those days - today mentally ill people are cared for in special institutions - back then they were in the community (though many of the driven up north to Galilee. Jesus never drove out a single demon in Judea in the south - they were all up north where the mentally people and other socially excluded people were driven).

 

You know why this post part of your post is worthless? Because you fail to account for the question I implied which is that where Jesus(pbuh) according to the New Testament denies the reality of devils. As a matter of fact, when he was accused of being helped by them would have been a great opportunity to set the record straight but instead he denies the fact that he is helped by them but doesn't deny their existence. You also fail to account for passages such as the spirits being driven into pigs and Mary Magdalene being possessed by seven spirits. You have no proof that the devils are imaginary according to the New Testament.

 

I don't know about the Quran, but the bible does not reveal anything about the creation of "jinn" or "demons" by God. The only thing it does say is that demons (sheddim in the Hebrew) are "elohim which are no elohim" (ie - they are gods/deities which are no gods (except in the minds of those who believe they exist of course).

 

Your proof against devils is that passage from the Old Testament? *sigh* It seems like my explanation about the use of the word "elohim" fell to deaf ears. Remember when I said that "elohim" can also mean "an authority". Well, the passage can, therefore, translated as gods who have no authority. It seems once again that you are the only person to have understood it that way. The majority of Jews and Christians, and not just any Jews and Christians, but men in authority regarding knowledge, disagree with you.

 

As for the Qur'an, it reveals things about the Jinn's creation. They were created from fire, to serve God and other things.

 

I quite agree that angels have supernatural powers yet are not deities - but Scripture tells us that they "do God's bidding". Angels are a manifestation of God to do His will and work. But taken to the same conclusion God/Allah would be manifesting himself as a jinn/demon if so be that God/Allah are the only source of supernatural power.

 

So, do you believe then that there are two sources of supernatural power? A good source and a bad source? If so, isn't that dualism?

 

Look, I've told you this previously, stop projecting your dilemmas unto Islam when they are unfounded. God doesn't manifest himself as a jinn, from an Islamic perspective this is utter nonsense and these sorts of questions wouldn't arise to Muslims. Angels(pbut) are not God's manifestations, nor is Jesus(pbuh) nor Moses(pbuh) or any other Prophet who had miracles. The Jinn have powers given to them by God just as every species have powers; they are no different from Angels(pbut) who have certain powers, or humans who have certain powers or animals who have certain powers. They have their attributes like we have ours. And last but not least, "There is no power nor might except with God", which means that everything is created by God.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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That is a very clear explanation - thank you.

 

Can you quote me the Quran bit about Allah creating jinn out of fire? I am not familiar with that verse.

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....oh and just one other query Younes if I may to pick your brains on beofre I finsih on this topic.

 

I understand now what you mean by the elohim which have no authority etc, but just referring to Scripture when Jesus refers about Beelzebub. Now Beelzebub was a false god (the god of Ekron - "Lord of the Flies").

 

So am I right in assuming that Muslims believe there is really a jinn/demon/false god who is calld "beelzebub"? Only if Beelzebub is really a false god - then he's either really false or he's not.

 

Can you see my problem/concundrum over this? I'm only trying to think it through. I just wonder whether Jesus (who was obviously a monotheist Himself) believed in the false god of Ekron (aka Beelzebub)?

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....oh and just one other query Younes if I may to pick your brains on beofre I finsih on this topic.

 

I understand now what you mean by the elohim which have no authority etc, but just referring to Scripture when Jesus refers about Beelzebub. Now Beelzebub was a false god (the god of Ekron - "Lord of the Flies").

 

So am I right in assuming that Muslims believe there is really a jinn/demon/false god who is calld "beelzebub"? Only if Beelzebub is really a false god - then he's either really false or he's not.

 

Can you see my problem/concundrum over this? I'm only trying to think it through. I just wonder whether Jesus (who was obviously a monotheist Himself) believed in the false god of Ekron (aka Beelzebub)?

 

The verse on the Jinn's creation:

 

And He created Jinns from fire free of smoke: (55:15)

 

Muslims don't believe in a Jinn called "Beelzebub" but we do believe that Jinn have tricked men during the course of history to have themselves, and worshiping Jinn is idolatry just as worshiping a man called Jesus(pbuh) is idolatry. We do believe that Iblis is the leader of all evil Jinn. He might have had people worship him but worshiping him amounts to idolatry. Iblis and all disbelieving, evil Jinn will be thrown into the Hellfire for eternity.

 

Obviously, Jesus(pbuh) did not believe in a god called Beelzebub just as he did not believe himself to be a god. I realise your question is sort of a trick question. By answering, no, Jesus(pbuh) did not believe in a god called Beelzebub, you might think that makes devils a fragment of imagination, unexistant creatures, but it doesn't. For example, a person might believe that a tree is a god and the tree would be a false but that doesn't make the tree a figment of the imagination. Likewise, just because somebody believes that a devil is a god, it doesn't necessarily rule out the devil being a created creature.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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I'd just like to add in regards to this Belzebub affair is that you have to keep in mind how people define things. For example, take Satan. To Muslims he is a Jinn, to Christians, at least the mainstream, he is some sort of fallen angel or some other being, while to the Jews he is an Angel, not a fallen one, who's job is to tempt. The same applies to the case of Belzebub. Just because the Jews called the devil by a name of a foreign god it doesn't mean they believed that he was a god. Read about the name on wikipedia. And by the way, Jesus(pbuh) doesn't deny the existence of the devils in the New Testament. As a matter of fact, because he doesn't deny their existence, he affirms their existence according to the New Testament.

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It wasn't meant to be a trick question - but something i tried to think through, but thanks for your reply which is clear.

 

Regarding worship of jinn being idolatry and also of Jesus being idolatry - people did worship Jesus yet He never denied it or stopped them - how do you see that? Also when I went to a Masjid in Birmingham several Muslims bowed the knee and kissed the hand of the Imam. How does that differe? (Not a trick question honest! I am trying to think these things through).

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It wasn't meant to be a trick question - but something i tried to think through, but thanks for your reply which is clear.

 

My bad, I am sorry.

 

Regarding worship of jinn being idolatry and also of Jesus being idolatry - people did worship Jesus yet He never denied it or stopped them - how do you see that?

 

I am going to answer your question from two perspectives. According to the literal text of the NT Jesus(pbuh) was woshiped in an idolatrous manner and he never stopped it. But from a factual perspective, he wasn't worshiped in his presence. What do I mean by this? I mean that the NT tells you that he was worshiped while he didn't deny it BUT in reality he wasn't worshiped and the NT accounts are lies.

 

EDIT: Read this (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.4.3.html"]article[/url]. If we are to consider the word "worship" as it is described in this article, as in kissing someone's hand or another form of showing him respect, then this it is plausible. But of course the question is, what is the intended meaning of the Bible, but I really don't want to go there since I don't believe the Bible to be an authentic document and the Bible has a lot of stuff that cannot be reconciled with Islam - period - so it would really be pointless. If we are to take it as worship, as in worship that is only for God, then the matter is absolutely clear, it never happened.

 

Also when I went to a Masjid in Birmingham several Muslims bowed the knee and kissed the hand of the Imam. How does that differe? (Not a trick question honest! I am trying to think these things through).

 

There is nothing wrong with that. It's just a sign of respect. Nobody is worshiping the Imam. As a matter of fact, even a gesture such as prostration is not inheritenly a sign of worship. For example, the Angels(pbuh) and Iblis, a Jinn who was with the Angels(pbut) and is commonly known as Satan, were commanded by God to prostrate before Adam(pbuh) and the family of Joseph, his father, mother and brothers, prostrated before him when they arrived to Egypt. In the previous Laws, this wasn't forbidden. However, in the Law of Muhammad it is forbidden to prostrate for a person. Of course, if it is a life and death situation, you are allowed but that is another matter. So may people have kissed Jesus(pbuh)'s hand? Yes, it is plausible. Was he worshiped as a Lord, or a god, or God, or the Son of God in his presence without him harshly condeming and forbidding it? Absolutely not.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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Thanks Younes. You are good at explaining things. Actually having read that article I do not disagree with it. That is how I "worship" Jesus and believe that it is right to do so as Christian by showing respect and adoration in that manner. So maybe we do not disagree so much on that issue. It is interesting to note however that Peter refused proskuneo worship:

Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped (proskuneo) him. 26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

 

....as also did the angle in Revelation:

Re 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

 

....so it is clear the NT does not teach worship of men or angels, but showing respect and adoration to Christ in the manner experessed in the article you quoted I do not have a problem with.

 

 

(PS - Who is "We" in the Quran? eg: 76:23 "It is We Who have sent down the Quran to thee by stages" ?)

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Thanks Younes. You are good at explaining things. Actually having read that article I do not disagree with it. That is how I "worship" Jesus and believe that it is right to do so as Christian by showing respect and adoration in that manner. So maybe we do not disagree so much on that issue. ....so it is clear the NT does not teach worship of men or angels, but showing respect and adoration to Christ in the manner experessed in the article you quoted I do not have a problem with.

 

I think we do differ quite substantially in regards to Jesus(pbuh). In a previous thread, you said that Jesus(pbuh) is God by virture of his office. That is - however you choose to describe it - blasphemy by Islamic standards. Furthermore, you worship Jesus(pbuh) as Lord, an intermediary between God and man just like the Pagan Arabs at the time of Muhammad(pbuh) worshiped their idols as intermediaries between them and God.

 

(PS - Who is "We" in the Quran? eg: 76:23 "It is We Who have sent down the Quran to thee by stages" ?)

 

The pronoun "We" refers to God. It is a case of pluralis majestatis. It doesn't mean that God is numerous personalities like in the Christian thought.

Edited by Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz

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I think we do differ quite substantially in regards to Jesus(pbuh). In a previous thread, you said that Jesus(pbuh) is God by virture of his office. That is - however you choose to describe it - blasphemy by Islamic standards. Furthermore, you worship Jesus(pbuh) as Lord, an intermediary between God and man just like the Pagan Arabs at the time of Muhammad(pbuh) worshiped their idols as intermediaries between them and God.

Yes I agree we differ there, but as a Biblical Unitarian I agreed with the article you posted a link to in principle. The reason we differ about the nature of Jesus is that I believe that He died and has been resurrected because He lived a sinless life (He is the "first born from the dead") and as such He is now immortal (the only man ever to have obtained immortality) and therefore as such He shares and partakes in the divine nature.

 

The pronoun "We" refers to God. It is a case of pluralis majestatis. It doesn't mean that God is numerous personalities like in the Christian thought.

I agree about the pluralis majestatis, and that agrees with Biblical Unitarian view - though in the Hebrew Scriptures God reveals Himself through various Names and Titles also. He has many Names and Titles. The word of God is in the plural also in certain OT Scriptures, and certainly it most often is in the Hebrew. (I though "Allah" was singular in description though? - similar to the Hebrew "Eloah" - which means single God - as opposed to Elohim which is the plurality of God majesty)

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