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:D

 

 

 

So...will a practicing sikh go to Heaven?

 

Does sikhism have any link to Islam?

 

Is there mention in the Qur'an or Sunnah about Sikhs and Hindu's?

 

and when i say hindu's, i mean the ones that Dont worship idols...

 

 

-sorry if they are very silly basic questions...-

 

:D

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As-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu

 

Any person who hears the message of Islam and rejects it, will be an inhabitant of Hell-fire.

 

If God had found in them any good. He would indeed have made them listen: As it is, if He had made them listen, they would but have turned back and declined Faith. (Qur'an 8:23)

 

W'as-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu

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:D

 

 

and when i say hindu's, i mean the ones that Dont worship idols...

-sorry if they are very silly basic questions...-

 

:D

:D

 

Then who?

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So...will a practicing sikh go to Heaven?

 

:D

 

So what exactly is a Practising Sikh ?? An Idol Worshipper ?? Come On sister , can't belive your asking this, use your Intellect Allah has given you :D

 

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

 

THE TRUE RELIGION OF Islam By Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips

 

The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form.

 

Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the following:

 

 

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

 

 

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

 

 

"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)

 

Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses' people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact, Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name "Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name Esau.

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Read the rest here if you want (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamworld(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/true.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamworld(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/true.html[/url]

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:D

 

whosevers kufr and shirk is clear ,u MUST affirm that he is a kafir

 

Just some historical info

 

Sikhism is a very "new" religion

 

The founder of sikh religion was guru nanak who is supposed to have visited makka and medinah and according to him the religion(sikhism) takes the "best" of the religions of Islam and hinduism ..they were monotheists to begin with(ofcourse rejected prophethood and many other things) ,then gradually they started worshipping their saints as god .

 

They have a bloody history with muslims ,they allied with the british against the mujahideen of india who were led by Syed Ahmed Bareili rahimahumullah ,they have a strong hatred for muslims too ,because from their childhood they are taught that muslims are their enemies etc etc

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:D

 

whosevers kufr and shirk is clear ,u MUST affirm that he is a kafir

 

Just some historical info

 

Sikhism is a very "new" religion

 

The founder of sikh religion was guru nanak who is supposed to have visited makka and medinah and according to him the religion(sikhism) takes the "best" of the religions of Islam and hinduism ..they were monotheists to begin with(ofcourse rejected prophethood and many other things) ,then gradually they started worshipping their saints as god .

 

They have a bloody history with muslims ,they allied with the british against the mujahideen of india who were led by Syed Ahmed Bareili rahimahumullah ,they have a strong hatred for muslims too ,because from their childhood they are taught that muslims are their enemies etc etc

 

Please don't spread lies if you don't know facts.

 

 

Sikhs only believe in one god always have and always will. Just like any religion including the Muslim religion some people stray off the path and start worshiping saints as gods. .

 

The reason why Sikhs don’t like Muslims is because of history and not because of what there parents tell them. You might want to pull your head out of the Quran do a little research on how the Muslims try to forcefully convert all of India to Islam and how the Sikhs martyred themselves to stop this.

 

The reason why Muslims hate Sikhs is because there still pissed off about the massive beating the Sikhs handed them in Afghanistan.

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Please don't spread lies if you don't know facts.

 

Sikhs only believe in one god always have and always will. Just like any religion including the Muslim religion some people stray off the path and start worshiping saints as gods. .

 

The reason why Sikhs don’t like Muslims is because of history and not because of what there parents tell them. You might want to pull your head out of the Quran do a little research on how the Muslims try to forcefully convert all of India to Islam and how the Sikhs martyred themselves to stop this.

 

The reason why Muslims hate Sikhs is because there still pissed off about the massive beating the Sikhs handed them in Afghanistan.

 

Peace.

 

Please don't be so rude, if you cannot be polite.

 

I have Sikh (and Hindu) acquaintances, and yes, one of them told me that they only believe in one god as well, that it is written in their holy book, the Guru Granth Sahib, right at the very beginning. But the fact is that they do use idols, and that defeats the purpose of Monotheism in a sense.

 

Speaking of research, I wonder if you've read this article on Aurangzeb's rule? I'll PM it to you if you'd like, seeing as I cannot post the link to it. :D

 

Peace,

 

Anya.

 

 

P.S.

 

Is there a Mod, perhaps, who can post the link for me? (If it's not asking too much, as it is a very wonderful article. ^^;:D

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Please don't spread lies if you don't know facts.

Sikhs only believe in one god always have and always will. Just like any religion including the Muslim religion some people stray off the path and start worshiping saints as gods. .

 

The reason why Sikhs don’t like Muslims is because of history and not because of what there parents tell them. You might want to pull your head out of the Quran do a little research on how the Muslims try to forcefully convert all of India to Islam and how the Sikhs martyred themselves to stop this.

 

The reason why Muslims hate Sikhs is because there still pissed off about the massive beating the Sikhs handed them in Afghanistan.

 

 

Hmm forefully convert lets do the math for a min. 500 years = 30% Muslims in India.

Hmm, that math is not working out. Shouldnt it be 80 to 90%?

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Please don't spread lies if you don't know facts.

Sikhs only believe in one god always have and always will. Just like any religion including the Muslim religion some people stray off the path and start worshiping saints as gods. .

 

The reason why Sikhs don’t like Muslims is because of history and not because of what there parents tell them. You might want to pull your head out of the Quran do a little research on how the Muslims try to forcefully convert all of India to Islam and how the Sikhs martyred themselves to stop this.

 

The reason why Muslims hate Sikhs is because there still pissed off about the massive beating the Sikhs handed them in Afghanistan.

Hi

You are talking to..an Indian Muslim..sikhs use idols..so thats polythism

 

Muslims for the most part (there are e exceptions)dint try to convert anybody in india by force....if it had been so there would be no hindus left in india since muslims ruled india for more than 500 years..tell me another country where a minority culture ruled and let the majority culture live? !!!

 

 

The war between muslims and sikhs fought in 1800s is a topic i have read pretty well ..the muslims were preparing for Jihad against the british after they had captured Delhi..the sikhs coperated with the british..then they had the battles i mentioned somewhere near present day pakistan ...and muslims were !!

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Hmm forefully convert lets do the math for a min. 500 years = 30% Muslims in India.

Hmm, that math is not working out. Shouldnt it be 80 to 90%?

:D

lol [at]math

Muslims in India are somewhere between 13-15% ..there are states which are 25% or more muslim...

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:D

lol [at]math

Muslims in India are somewhere between 13-15% ..there are states which are 25% or more muslim...

 

Salam, Brother

 

Sorry, brother I should have stated that was a rough rough, estimate form the top of my head.

 

Salam. ^^

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You are talking to..an Indian Muslim..sikhs use idols..so thats polythism

Sikhs do not worship Idols..They're monotheistic.

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Sikhs do not worship Idols..They're monotheistic.

Sikhs do u use idols and photos for vareity of things and in effect they do worship their saints

U have to understand that Monotheism as defined by philosophers differ a lot from the Islamic concept of monotheism which iam referring to .Philiosophers consider even trinitarians to be monotheists

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Salaam,

 

I'm Catholic. In my church there are a number of ststues, of Mary, of Jesus, of the Saints. In front of many of these we kneel and we pray. We light a candle in front of these statues.

 

Is this worhsipping the statues? No. We are using the statues as a tool to giude the focus of our prayers. A very good analogy would be to prayer beads which I have seen some Muslims use. Those who use them don't worship the beads, they are merely a tool to help them focus on their prayers.

 

Now, I don't know how Sikhs use their statues, but if its similar to Catholics then it is not idol worshipping. We do not see the statues as God, we do not bow down to them as God. The statues have no innate power of their own, they are merely a focussing point to enable us to worship God.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

 

ps: remember, this is a Catholic thing. Protestants tend to disagree with the use of statues and their churches tend to be unadorned.

 

edit: just to clear up some typos

Edited by darla_1753

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Dear Darla (and dear all)

 

I mentioned to you on another thread about the rights of God, and I mentioned that it is His right that He is worshipped alone without giving Him partners, without ascribing to Him a wife or children and without directing any act of worship to other than Him. I stated in that thread a very important principle, and that principle is the reason for which we were created and that reason is to worship the One True God, and since it is He who created us for that purpose then it is only He who has the right to tell us how He wants us to worship Him, we can explore the aforementioned points later on, but for now…

 

The second commandment in the bible reads: “You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.†(Exodus 20:4-5, NKJV)

 

And in the Catholic Encyclopaedia it reads: “…idolatry refers to the worship of gods other than the one, true God, and the use of images is characteristic of the life of the heathen.†(New Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol. 7, P. 348)

 

Statues and images received official approval into what is now known as the Catholic Church during the Council of Nicaea in 325AD. In 326AD Emperor Constantine’s sister, Constantina, requested a representation of Jesus, Eusebius of Nicomedia responded with the admonishment:

 

“…and what kind of likeness of Christ is there? Such images are forbidden by the second commandment.†(Hodgkin, Thomas. 1967. Italy & Her Invaders, Vol. VI, Book VII - New York: Russell & Russell, P. 431)

 

So such statues and images are forbidden in the bible and declared a characteristic of the heathens in the Catholic Encyclopaedia.

 

If we look at the history of shirk, associating partners with God, ascribing to Him children or directing part of our worship to other than Him, then we will know that mankind was born upon monotheism and this pure nature remained for as long as Allaah willed. Then the people started to get weak so the shaytaan came to them and whispered in the hearts that they should build statues of their righteous forefathers to act as a reminder, so they did this. After these people had died and the purpose of these statues was forgotten shaytaan whispered in the hearts of later generations and told them that their forefathers used to worship these statues.

 

So this is the origin of shirk, and in Islaam, evil is cut off at its roots, we do not leave the tree to grow and then try to trim back its braches, and anything that leads to haraam is haraam, thus, all the doors to evil and haraam are closed.

 

So now we know that the bible prohibited statues and images and that Islaam also prohibits them, and we know the origins of polytheism, but sadly, a large number of people go against the teachings of their religion (including Muslims), so I put it to all that Islaam is the only true monotheistic religion.

 

Some say that they do not worship these statues or images, however, in the least they use them as a means to draw closer to God, but God has not made them a means; rather, He has prohibited them being built in the first place. And know, just as Christians have taken Jesus (a created being) as an object of worship, thus, giving God a rival, the Hindus and Sikhs have done likewise in that they have taken things that they have created themselves as objects of worship.

 

Warm regards

 

Aboo Uthmaan

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Salaam,

 

I'm happy to concede that Idols are banned etc. I'm happy to concede that Islam bans any form of picture/image.

 

However, trying to convince me that the Catholic church is against the use of statues in churches is just silly :D We do not worship the statues, as said before, they should be likened to prayer beads, a tool for prayer. I have seen statues in every single Catholic church I have been in, I don't think it would innaccurate so say they appear in every RC church all over the world. If you don't wish to use any aid for prayer, that is fine. If you are convinced your religion is against the use of statues, that is also fine, but please don't try and tell me what my religion and my church teaches. Feel free to question it, but I would suggest you find a Catholic forum in which to do so (i think beliefnet(contact admin if its a beneficial link) has some).

 

My point was to distinguish between the woshipping of a statue and the worshipping of God with the use of a statue to aid focus. It is a subtle distinction and has been misunderstood through the ages. If you cannot see the distinction then obviously, don't use prayer aids. In my case, however, I can see it and it's the way I worship.

 

To move back on topic and discuss Sikhism.

 

It has been mentioned that Sikhism takes the best from Islam and Hinduism. We'll leave the Hindu bit as I suspect no-one here is an expert: other than mono-theism, what other similarities are there between Sikhism and Islam?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Dear Darla

 

You admit that they are banned but yet you said it is silly to try to convince you that they are not allowed to be used, that is a very strange comment, so God is against it but the Catholic Church is not? I do not see how it is silly, it is mentioned in your own bible about their prohibition, or is that silly? it is also mentioned in your own catholic encyclopaedia that it is not allowed and that it is the characteristic of the heathen, or is that silly? As for the statues, images and idols, then in the bible in the story of Abraham it mentions how he smashed the idols that they themselves created, was that a silly thing to do? It is amazing how people go against the teachings of their religion, and dear Darla, I do not just mean Catholics, I mean Muslims as well and other than them.

 

You mentioned on another thread:

 

One of the reasons we pray to Jesus is because He was God made man. On the one hand we have the almighty father (scary!), on the other we can pray to someone who we 'connect' with more because He is more like us. Jesus being made man like us doesn't diminish from His God-ness, it just means He is less scary and distant. It's part of the same reason that one of my favourite prays is the Hail Mary. Obviously we don't worship Mary, but we believe she can 'take our prays to God' and because she was human and a woman I can connect with her more.

 

See: (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=24388&hl=mary#"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=24388&hl=mary#[/url] (post 36)

First off, to describe God as being scary is somewhat insulting, as for Him being distant then He is nearer to us (in His knowledge) then even our own selves, for indeed, He knows what will happen to us tomorrow and He knows what resides in the deepest depths of our hearts, Allaah says:

 

“And indeed We have created man, and We know what his ownself whispers to him. And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein (by Our Knowledge).†(50:16)

 

In Islaam our relationship with God is direct with no need for intermediaries, Allaah never made calling on other’s (no matter who they be) as a means of worship or drawing closer to Him, and how strange it is that many non Muslims (and Muslims) call upon other than Allaah yet (a minimum of) 17 times a day say a Muslim says in his/her prayer:

 

“You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).†(1:5)

 

Those who make call upon other than God say: “...we do not worship them…â€, but when we turn to the Book of Allaah we find:

 

“And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmir (the thin membrane over the date stone). If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them.†(35:13-14)

 

So not only does Allaah say that the dead cannot hear the living and the calling upon non-Muslims (and some Muslims) unfortunately make to them, He also calls the act of calling on them and invoking them an act of worship, thus, a person who does such acts has given part of his worship to other than God.

 

You also mentioned that you pray to Mary, but as we have already mentioned, such acts are worship and equate to worshipping other than God, you also mentioned that you can relate to Mary more because she is a woman, but whoever said that God is a man, was it Jesus (or did he tell the people that he was not God and instead directed the people to worship God), or was it the bible or was it the later day Christians who came up with the doctrine of the trinity and made it official at the council of Nicaea in 325AD, Allaah mentions in the Qur’aan that there is nothing like unto Him, so whatever we imagine God to be then He is nothing like that.

 

“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): ‘O ‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah’?' He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All Knower of all that is hidden and unseen’.†(5:116)

 

A lot for the sincere to think about...

 

Regards

 

Aboo Uthmaan

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Sikhs do u use idols and photos for vareity of things and in effect they do worship their saints

U have to understand that Monotheism as defined by philosophers differ a lot from the Islamic concept of monotheism which iam referring to .Philiosophers consider even trinitarians to be monotheists

True..their God is perhaps not exactly like the scriptural God.

But they do pray to one god.

 

 

About their Gurus...the religion doesn't tell them to pray to any pictures or idols....It's like how

some muslims praise peer Awliyah.b

Edited by llogical

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Salaam,

 

Dear Aboo,

 

I pointed out there was a subtle distinction between worshiping something and using it as a tool to focus prayer. This is now the third time I've made the distinction and somewhere along the line what I am trying to say is obviously not being understood. The distinction is subtle and someone approaching it from the angle you are apporaching it from probably won't be able to appreciate it. As I am very clear there is a distinction, trying to persuade me otherwise will be unsuccessful I'm afraid. Again, what I suggest is that you take it to a Catholic forum as someone else might be able to explain it in a way which makes more sense to you.

 

We will avoid the subject of the trinity as it has been covered ad nauseum elsewhere and I'm honestly not sure there's so much else to be said that hasn't been said already. Suffice to say, you see Jesus as a Prophet, we see Him as Son of God. Again, I'm, sure both of us have read the posts on the and both of us are resolved to our view.

 

Now onto what I said about the position of Mary (and this applies to all the saints). All our prayers are ultimately to God. We ask the Angels and the saints to intercede for us. To give you an example of the sort of prayer we say this is one which we say every single time mass is said: (It's called the Mea Culpa)

 

I confess to Almighty God

And to you my brothers and sisters,

That I have sinned through my own fault,

In my thoughts and in my words,

In what I have done, and what I have failed to do.

I ask Blessed Mary, ever virgin,

And all the angels and saints,

And you, my brothers and sisters,

To pray for me to the Lord our God.

Amen.

 

If you look here, we are making a petition to the saints (and to Mary) in our prayer to ask them to act as mediators for us to God.

 

God is the CEO of the company Universe Inc., He looks over everything and can be as close or distant as he wants. Mary, the Angels and the saints are various members in teh company who can help 'speed' our requests upstairs to God. This is a VERY crude analogy, buts it's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not the best person to talk to on theological matters which is why I suggest beliefnet.com.

 

 

To move back on topic and discuss Sikhism.

 

It has been mentioned that Sikhism takes the best from Islam and Hinduism. We'll leave the Hindu bit as I suspect no-one here is an expert: other than mono-theism, what other similarities are there between Sikhism and Islam?

 

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Wa’alaikum

 

Dear Darla

 

You distinction was and is understood, and as a former non Muslim who used to spend a great deal of time in Catholic Church (speaking to priests) then I am well aware of the beliefs of the Catholic doctrine, and as a result I can say that I have sat on both sides of the fence. The distinction that you make though is irrelevant because the creation of statues and images is prohibited regardless of the intention of the person who creates them or the intention of the one who kneels before them taking them as a means to draw closer to God, such statues and images are prohibited in the bible, with that being the case how is it that people can then create them and take them as a means by which to draw closer to God, how can something that is prohibited enable a person to drawer closer to God, the one who says that statues and images help to focus ones worship is in reality saying that something that God prohibited, that He made unlawful is actually helpful and helping them in their worship, but if it is prohibited then how can it be helpful, the reality is that taking such means to worship is helpful in something, but that something is not in the worship of God. Such a false concept is like a Muslim saying that although drinking in Islaam is prohibited it helps them to worship Allaah better, such a saying is rendered false by any rationale person because nothing that God has prohibited can be used as a means to worship Him by in the first place, let alone it being a helpful means to draw closer to Him.

 

As for the trinity, then I will not go into it too much here, but it is safe to say that anyone who takes Jesus as the son of God or as God Himself has taken Jesus as an idol, thus, such a person has entered into polytheism having taken other than the One true God as an object of worship. And since this thread is about idol worship then know, it is not just the Sikhs and Hindus or fell into this crime, most (if not all) religions have, and it has become part of their religion and the teachings of their religions, religions that do not carry the promise of being protected from the original texts being tampered with, unlike Islaam.

 

As for the prayers then I am well aware of them since I used to say many of them myself before my reversion, but as a person who I hope has a degree of rationality about himself I came to the conclusion that there was no need to take intermediaries with God and this is because God is All Knowing, All Seeing and All Hearing, so even if I were to take a saint as an intermediaries with God (and may Allaah protect me from such evil) and pray to that saint asking him to help me and to speed up my request then Allaah would have not only heard it and been aware of it, He knew already that I would ask the saint such and such before I even asked him or contemplated asking Him, this is because Allaah is All Knowing, He Knows everything, the past, the present and the future, nothing escapes Him. So not only is there no need to take mediators and intercessors with God, it is also something which is prohibited, and know, as I stated already in the verse from the Qur’aan that I cited, the dead cannot hear the calls of the living and even if they could they could not fulfil our requests and on the day of judgement they will disown those who worshipped them, and yes, such acts are worship and are the route of polytheism.

 

Regards

 

Aboo Uthmaan

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About their Gurus...the religion doesn't tell them to pray to any pictures or idols....It's like how

some muslims pray to peer or Awliyah or prophets.

What "some muslims" do is not a measure in Islam ..Islam is the Qura'n and sunnah as understood by the companions and those who followed them in righteousness ...and its is free of peeri faqeeri ## and other things which are clear shirk .

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What "some muslims" do is not a measure in Islam ..Islam is the Qura'n and sunnah as understood by the companions and those who followed them in righteousness ...and its is free of peeri faqeeri ## and other things which are clear shirk .

All I was saying was that ...Just like we aren't suppose to Judge Islam by muslims...we can't Judge Sikhism by Sikhs. Sikhism don't teach idoltary so If some sikhs do... it doesn't make Sikhism a religion of idol worshippers.

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PLs do not Profane abrreviations like ## al malabari you should know that ? :D .

As for your statement about peeris and faqeeris , its out offline as its not up to you to decide who are mushriks or not ( and dont start the subject here pls) .

 

as for sikhs they do have idols illogical , and it does make them idol worshipers like their hindu counterparts .

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