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What is the world coming to? Today for this first time I have come across a "Sheikh" who has said that one of the Sahih Bukhari Hadith has a weak chain! Is this the extent we are willing to go just to satisfy our wants? Are we to change the meaning of Sahih Hadith just because want to take part in a thing that has no benefit at all?

 

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Actually there are more than one Ahadeeth in Bukhari which have weak chains... Or do you honestly believe that Bukhari is the word of God or something free from any sorts of corruption??

 

The point that the Hadith in Bukhari has a weak chain is not by the scholar of today but by a scholar of approximately one thousand years ago...

 

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Ok lets cut this short... I want to ask you brothers and sisters one question...

 

Say it is the Islamic Khilafah and one day you are all hurrying towards the Masjid to offer Fajr Salah and shockingly cross by my house to hear some sort of music playing out... WHAT CAN THE IslamIC STATE DO to punish me for my crime...

 

Before you answer remember that all of you are hell bent on stating that music is haram... and for EVERY HARAM the Islamic state has laws of PUNISHMENT... So lets see now... What is the punishment of music or possessing musical instruments under the shariah which will be applied in the state...

 

Rest assured that I have studied this topic extensively... I also know that under the state musical instruments are protected by the laws of theft and if someone steals somebodies instrument which is expensive he could get his hand chopped off for the crime!!! But I would like to know your ideas about the punishment for the haram of music in the Khilfafah!!!

 

and if you find no punishment in the Shariah... which you DEFINITELY WONT FIND then stop getting emotional over such a little thing... You dont like music fine dont listen to it... But if someone tries to interfere with me listening to music with an edge on moral superiority I m sure the khilafah will back me up if I make it ugly for people with such attitudes!!!

 

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Guest Sulemaan

Assalaamalaikum,

 

If Sahih Bukhari had weak chains, it would never have been called 'Saheeh' by the unanimous body of the Ulema of our time and the times gone by.

 

Refer to this thread by Brother Al-Furqaan -

 

"http://forums.gawaher/index.php?showtopic=338"]forums.gawaher/index.php?showtopic=338[/url]

 

Hadakallah!

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:D

 

Red-Shift I would not punish you for no mankind should hold such authority over another man…we are all human and sin is inevitable. However, if it was I who heard it, I’d pray FIRST simply because salat is far more important than those who choose to go against the teaching of the Allah (swt) and the prophet (pbuh). After I finished my prayer would I come and knock on your door. I would ask ‘Who do thy fear most?’ *your answer plz*

‘Why do thy commit such disgrace when the one you fear the most has told you not to follow the footsteps of the Satan?’ *answer plz*

Then I’d say ‘You yearn to fear thy lord but the Satan has overpowered you because if you truly feared you would not be sinning but trying to avoid it.’

Only Allah (swt) knows best….and arrogance is not a good thing for one to boast about akhi.

 

 

:w:

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A little discourse on Bukhari...

 

Muslims as a majority have this disease (I think it has something to do with a bit of Wahabi propaganda) that whatever is written in Bukhari is like a commandment of Allah swt in the Quran...

 

Always remember brothers and sisters that Bukhari was a MAN and as a MAN he is bound to make mistakes in whatever he is doing... So Bukhari is NOT ERROR FREE...

 

Bukhari simply used a method to record the Ahadeeth and did a hell good job of it... The reason why its called Sahih Bukhari is that his ahadeeth were sound according to his method of compilation which he then recorded in his volumes...

 

Be careful of this and dont make a Quran out of Bukhari... The words of Quran are without any doubt the words of Allah swt and thus perfectly preseved and supposed to be accepted by default...

 

The words of Bukhari... well pick up the Isma ur Rijal and do a research of your own... Compare notes and try to find the Ahadeeth in other collections... Focus on the wordings and different meanings that have been derived by different scholars for the same Hadith... The chains are an entire science in themselves with mind boggling methods of research... The classification of Ahadeeth into Hasan, Sahih, Mutawattir, Non Mutawattir... FOR GOD SAKE GUYS... Please do not take a single hadith and base entire Islam around it...

 

There is a Hadith is Mishkaat which states that the Arsh of God is so old that when God sits on it the wood of that Arsh makes a noise... In one word... Pathetic!!!

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Guest Sulemaan

The link I have given above makes it quite clear that Musical instruments are haraam except the dough.

 

If anyone wants to listen to Music, please go ahead, it is something between you and Allah. But do not try to justify it by saying it is Halaal for you are taking the responsibility - a huge responsibility of leading people to something that may be Haraam. Think about it. It is not worth the risk!

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Guest Sulemaan

A word about Sahih Bukhari Hadith -

 

You know what was that "simple" method? He used to scrutinize each and every person in the chain of narrators and discarded any Hadith in which there was a doubt about the character of any one SINGLE person in the chain of narrators. For this he travelled throughout Arabia, Istanbul, Egypt, Baghdad and all corners of the Muslim world to get information on the Hadith. It was his lifetimes work!

 

You believe in history that you read in your school? Do you believe in the news that you see and read everyday? Well I can tell you all those sources don't work ten percent of what Imam Bukhari did for verifying the authenticity of the Hadith.

Edited by Sulemaan

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Red-Shift I would not punish you for no mankind should hold such authority over another man…we are all human and sin is inevitable. However, if it was I who heard it, I’d pray FIRST simply because salat is far more important than those who choose to go against the teaching of the Allah (swt) and the prophet (pbuh). After I finished my prayer would I come and knock on your door. I would ask ‘Who do thy fear most?’ *your answer plz*

‘Why do thy commit such disgrace when the one you fear the most has told you not to follow the footsteps of the Satan?’ *answer plz*

Then I’d say ‘You yearn to fear thy lord but the Satan has overpowered you because if you truly feared you would not be sinning but trying to avoid it.’

Only Allah (swt) knows best….and arrogance is not a good thing for one to boast about akhi.

 

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..

 

Raw Emotions again.. but hey my response would be something like this...

 

Walaikum Assalam Ya Ukhti Kaifa Haluka Ahlun Wasahlan

 

Then I would answer you by saying something like...

 

I could nt sleep the whole night thinking about the troubles affecting muslims... I prayed the whole night for the domination of Islam in the world again... After I said my Fajr Salah I thought I would watch some cable to check out the latest news... You must ve heard that and considered it music... Or maybe I should nt listen to the news coz its accompanied with music when it starts... So the news is Haram as well... Duh

 

Then I d invite you to have breakfast with my family if you were willing...

 

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I think I need to go into a bit of shock and awe mode to shake up my brothers and sisters a little more... Lets see what you say to my next wave of posting... Give me some time I need to look up some books...

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So no answer to my original question then... You cant punish me for listening to music... Then how can you call it haram??

 

..................

 

Remember brothers and sisters for every haram there is punishment...

 

You name it and I ll tell you the shariah punishment for the thing...

 

Fornication, Adultary, Murder, Attempted Murder, Torture, Theft, Missing Prayers, Missing Zakat, Missing Som, Not observing Hijab,

 

.................

 

You name it and I ll tell you what the state can do from either the Hadood or the Tazir... There is a punishment for all Haram... Then why not music??

 

.................

 

Coming up... More on Bukhari

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Guest Sulemaan
Or maybe I should nt listen to the news coz its accompanied with music when it starts... So the news is Haram as well... Duh

Staring at women is also Haraam, yet almost all newcasters are women. Does that legitemizes staring women?

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Guest Sulemaan

Before you post on Bukhari - take a look at this

 

The saheeh Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) clearly indicates that listening to musical instruments is haraam.

 

Al-Bukhaari narrated in a mu’allaq report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There will be among my ummah people who regard adultery, silk, pork and musical instruments as permissible…� Al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi said that this was a mawsool report.

 

This hadeeth indicates that musical instruments are haraam in two ways:

 

1 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “[they] will regard… as permissible.� This clearly indicates that the things mentioned are haraam, but those people will regard them as permissible.

 

2 – Musical instruments are mentioned in conjunction with things that are definitely haraam, namely adultery (zina) and alcohol. If it were not haraam it would not have been mentioned alongside them.

 

See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani , hadeeth no. 91.

 

The believer should make the most of this blessed month and turn to his Lord. He should repent to Allaah and give up haraam things that he was in the habit of doing before Ramadaan, so that Allaah might accept his fast and set his affairs straight.

 

And Allaah knows best.

 

Source islamqa

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Assalamualikum, bro and sis.

 

Music is harmful and not good for us,there are clear evidences. And the ones who listens to music should think with their brain which Allah SWT have given Human being.

 

We can feel what is wrong and which is right.

 

But when will the human being accept that this and that is haram and that is halal?

 

Well if we want to get deen in our lives we have to abstain from everything which is shaytan,.

 

we the Ummah of Our Beloved prophet Muhammad SAWS open oUR ears for music while our beloved prophet saws closed his ears to the music.

 

What have happened to us? how far will go?.

 

If I would listen to music, commit things which are harmful and haram.I could not call myself a muslim.

 

I don't say that anyone who listens to music is not a muslim I just say what I would think about myself If I did such things.

 

 

Our mission in this life is to make Allah SWT happy, And what kind of benefit do we by listening to music? Nothing.!

 

Instead of listening to music we can concentrate on our Salaat. HOw can we really concentrate if we listen to music?

 

And to you who listen to music. Have respect now while it's Ramadan.

 

 

Walikum Assalam

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:D

 

Oh red-shift sometime I wonder your position….you said music…the difference between the news and normal music is the news does not have lyrics. You are merely here to twist people’s idea…like that is gonna get you any where.

 

NO one is going to punish you only Allah (swt) shall…verily the hell itself is a good punishment for the disgraces…so punishment shall be waiting for you in the hereafter.

 

ya akhi...did you even bother to read al furquaan's posts? :D if so re-read it properly or take a reading classe cause it states clearly it is haram...ya rabbi!

 

w/s

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Well I have thought about the content of what I was about to post and decided not to do so... There is a reason for this... I do not want muslims to stop trusting the Ahadeeth of Bukhari... I only want them to make sure that they dont start accepting Bukhari by default as to be like the word of God...

 

The content that I want to post I would like a learned brother to help me with it... I think its a blasphemous content in Bukhari and I m too ashamed to even post it... Any learned brother willing to help me out?? IN PRIVATE??

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Guest Sulemaan

Yeah, I am sure he didn't read Al-Furqaan's thread. By the way, do you know the people who call Sahih Hadith weak? They are a deviated sect. I hope you are not one of them.

Edited by Sulemaan

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Oh red-shift sometime I wonder your position….you said music…the difference between the news and normal music is the news does not have lyrics. You are merely here to twist people’s idea…like that is gonna get you any where.

 

...................

 

Are you for real sister?? Are you trying to say that music HAS to have lyrics to be called music?? and what about instrumentals... they dont have lyrics to them... So are they allowed them?? How did you derive that rule??

 

Music without lyrics is CALLED MUSIC... Music with lyrics is called a SONG accompanied with music... Lyrics sung without any musical accompaniment are called acapella...

 

Since you have condemned me to hell for listening to music I think I should stop participating in this thread... I personally think that you are going to go to hell for making haram out of something which Allah swt has not made haram...

 

Grrrrrrr I feel like Howling suddenly

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Assalaamalaikum,

 

If Sahih Bukhari had weak chains, it would never have been called 'Saheeh' by the unanimous body of the Ulema of our time and the times gone by.

 

Refer to this thread by Brother Al-Furqaan -

 

"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_forums.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=338"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_forums.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=338[/url]

 

Hadakallah!

asalaamu'alalikum

 

Here's the post again with the link to brother Al Furqaan's post.

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I personally think that you are going to go to hell for making haram out of something which Allah swt has not made haram...

:D

 

lolz!!!!!!!!!!! blind, naive and narrow-minded....good on you akhi....just remember Islam shall subdivide into 72 sects...only one shall be right *hint hint*...i guess the Qur'an, bukhari, muslim is not good enough for you. :D

 

w/s

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Red-Shift you have gone off topic (post removed)

 

and remember the "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_forums.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]forum rules[/url]:

 

34- supporting cult/sectarian ideas: disable

Edited by shiningstar

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Guest Sulemaan

And the content you got is for sure from one of their sites. Be careful brother, here I am willing to help, go through this site and read the whole of it -

 

"http://islamtomorrow#####/fiqh.asp"]islamtomorrow#####

/fiqh.asp[/url]

 

Here are some excerpts -

 

Of all the books of hadith, the most authentic is Imam Bukhari’s Sahih Bukhari. After writing his book, Imam Bukhari stated that he had memorized one hundred thousand authentic hadith and two hundred thousand other kinds of hadith. Yet the books of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim combined contain only a fraction of this number. Therefore, it is obvious that these two books, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, do not contain all of the authentic hadith that exist. Three other books of hadith, the Sunman Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, and An-Nasai’, along with the "Sahih"s of Bukhari and Muslim make up what the scholars call Al Usulu Khamsa. These five books of hadith contain most but not all of the authentic hadith.

 

...

 

Now, we turn the focus of our discussion to the weak hadith. The reason for this is the fact that weak hadith have caused some of the differences that divided the Muslim Ummah today. However, this does not mean that weak hadith are bad. Imam Sakhawi has said that Abu Dawud includes weak hadith in his book of hadith because he says that the weak hadiths are dearer to him than the opinions of the scholars. Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal has said that his son, Abdullah Ibn Ahmed, said that he heard his father, Ahmed, saying that you only see a man using his own opinion if he has some wrong in his heart; and the weak hadith are stronger to him than opinions.

 

...

 

Yet, after the whole Ummah has accepted these books and held them in high regard, some present day scholars have criticized them. They have said that some of the hadith contained in these books are weak because of some of the narrators. So let us examine the validity of this criticism by considering what many other respected scholars have to say on the subject. Hafiz Abu Bakr Al Khatib has said that whatever hadiths Bukhari and Muslim have narrated, and whatever narrators they have narrated their hadiths from should be accepted. They should be accepted even if some of the narrators have been accused of some character flaw, like lying, because there is not enough evidence to support such accusations. In one of his books, Imam Nawawi has said that when some scholars say that certain of the hadiths narrated by Bukhari and Muslim are weak they are wrong because the reasons they use to say that the hadith are weak are not serious enough to make the hadith weak. In the introduction to his book, Al Fath, Ibn Hajar had the following to say about the narrators used by Bukhari and Muslim, “Every fair man should know that whenever Bukhari and Muslim narrated a hadith from certain narrators, it means that this narrator is fair, truthful, and has a strong memory.�

 

He told the man that each of the narrators had passed the bridge. This means that even though the narrators might have had some shortcomings, as all humans do, they have fulfilled all of the requirements that narrators must meet. Therefore, whenever someone says that the hadiths that Bukhari and Muslim have narrated are weak, these sayings should be ignored according to the scholars that have mentioned. As a footnote, it is necessary to emphasize the importance of hearing a narration first hand rather than reading it in a book. The best way to illustrate this point is by the following example

 

The link has more information and very very useful - The site is IslamTomorrow by Sheikh Yusuf Estes. Here it is again -

 

"http://islamtomorrow#####/fiqh.asp"]islamtomorrow#####

/fiqh.asp[/url]

 

May Allah guide us all to the truth. Ameen.

Edited by Sulemaan

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lolz!!!!!!!!!!! blind, naive and narrow-minded....good on you akhi....just remember Islam shall subdivide into 72 sects...only one shall be right *hint hint*...i guess the Qur'an, bukhari, muslim is not good enough for you.

 

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Hey where did I say Quran aint good enuff for me... Stop your bickering you silly ^&(*()£ ... Dont you fear Allah by calling me a Kafir and putting words in my mouth.. Only coz I disagree over music where difference of opinion already exists?? The hell man... You must ve lost your mind or something...

 

You did nt even know the definition of Music now you are talking hotshot... heh

 

I reject bro Al Furqans understanding over the issue of music... I asked you a question and I told you that there is no punishment ascribed to music thus you simply cant call it haram... If you do so then ascribe a punishment for it based on the shariah... end of story

 

Remember brothers and sisters even selling or eating a pig delibrately is punishable according to Islam... Its tragic I call you brothers and sisters and you people insult me for differing from your myopic views on such issues... You remind me of the issue of covering the ankles!!!!

 

Cheers... I dont care what you do... you should have the decency to accept a difference of opinion on which a difference of opinion is acceptable... this is not like an issue of Aqeedah OK where no difference of opinion is allowed...

 

KHALAS

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:D

So basically is music haram or not?

 

 

Allah knows best.... First try to avoid the big mistakes then worry about music...

I mean stop lying, stealing.....

Pray, give obligatory charity....

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Guest Sulemaan

Some people quote partial Hadith, yet some do not understand their meaning and fall into deviation. I fear for you brother, be careful when you go through such information. Know this much that Saheeh Hadith form a core of our religion. And please go to the link I have given, it will clear your doubts, INshallah.

 

As regards certain Hadith, then yes, you have erred by partially narrating a hadith, without giving its purpose, and occassion. Anger can sometimes make us blind, so be careful in the future, after all our Akhira is at stake here. Please edit your post.

 

Barakallah Feek

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This is not fair...

 

You guys removed my post where I quoted Bukhari directly without using any site or CULT as you are beginning to call it...

 

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Let me clarfiy again...

 

I am not a rejector of Hadith... You guys are only emotional coz what I say does nt fit in your narrow myopic understanding of Islam

 

I endorse Bukhari... In fact I have studied all of its volumes from cover to cover...

 

However I will never ever consider it to be words of God and I ll always be careful nto to consider it equal to Quran... Its a work of man and it CAN and DOES have mistakes...

 

If you think otherwise fine... Its obvious you are not here to discuss since you removed my post!!!

 

Masalama

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:D

Red-shift I did not call you kufar…where in my post did I imply you were a disbeliever…don’t just assume things brother, and yes I shall call you brother, last time I checked you were Muslim. Ya akhi you’re fasting, no need to use such foul language not to mention the need to lose your temper.

 

You don’t want an answer to your question, you just hope that people might just forget their position and say something unlawful…subhanallah ya akhi have mercy and shame.

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