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Muhammed & Jesus

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I'm not being disrespectful but the verses are often interpretted in different manners, so its impossible to get an unbiased perspective. For example, Muhammad was illiterate, yet Moses was not. Jesus was literate. etc etc

 

This is dependant on the way you look at it. For example Christians may argue he has God the Father, as he is God the Son, even though God never physically concieved him. It all depends on what people want to believe it seems

 

The Verses are only Interpreted in one manner here , and clearly from the reference we gave you there is no comparison to Moses and Jesus and to Top it with a cherry we can say :

 

You claim Jesus is God and the son of God , You dont claim the same about moses nor do we about Prophet Muhammad Peace be on them all .

 

What the ppl want to believe does not make them correct freind .

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Dear al faqeer I think you have a slight misconception of the trinity. Christians view God as being one in a trinity through three distinct beings, they are not one entity. What you refer to is modalism, whereby each part of the trinity is a different version of God. From what I know this is what is believed in unitarianism. Most Christians have the view of three seperate beings comprising one God.

 

 

How is that Possible ? how can three ppl be one but have three different personalities and bodies ? meaning if the sone was on the Cross Screaming " Eli Eli Lama Sabachtani " Did the father and holy ghost feel the pain of the nails ? and why would god shout out to himself ? I think the trinity dont make sense to christians themselves .

 

While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a "divine Son". After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God's revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.

 

Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third-century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father

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COUNCIL OF NICE

 

Of the Council of Nice, 352 A.D., where the doctrine of the Trinity was first officially formulated, the well-known trinitarian historian Mosheim, a Lutheran, admits (Century 4, Part 2, Chapter 3, Section 1)

 

"....the discussions concerning the three persons in the Godhead, among those who approved the decisions of the council of Nice.

 

"There is so little clearness and discrimination in these discussions, that they seem to rend the one God into three Gods.

 

"Moreover, those idle fictions, which a regard for the prevailing opinions of the day had induced most theologians to embrace, even before the time of Constantine, were now in various ways confirmed, extended and embellished.

 

"Hence it is that we see on every side evident traces of excessive veneration for saints in heaven, of belief in a fire to purify souls on leaving the body, of partiality for priestly celibacy, the worship of images and relics, and for many other opinions which, in process of time, almost banished the true religion, or at least very much obscured and corrupted it.

 

"Genuine piety was gradually supplanted by a long train of superstitious observances, which were derived partly from a preposterous disposition to adopt profane rites.

 

"To the temples, to water consecrated with certain forms, and to likenesses of holy men, the same efficacy was ascribed and the same privileges assigned, as had been attributed to the pagan temples, statues and lustrations before the advent of Christ."

 

This is a trinitarian's description of conditions in the Catholic Church during the time the doctrine of the Trinity was being formulated and imposed.

 

In the same chapter, Section 5, Mosheim says:

 

"The doctors who were distinguished for their learning explained the sacred doctrines after the manner of Origen (see notes below on Origen) on whom they fixed their eye - in accordance with the principles of that philosophy which they learned in their youth at school, namely, the Platonic philosophy as corrected by Origen.

 

"Those who wish to get a full insight into this subject may examine Gregory Nazianzen among the Greeks and Augustine among the Latins who were regarded in the subsequent ages as the only patterns worthy of imitation, and may be fitly styled, next to Origen, the parents and supporters of philosophic or scholastic theology. They were both admirers of Plato."

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.antipas(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/books/trinity/trinity1.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.antipas(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/books/trinity/trinity1.html[/url]

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Jesus is a mis-transliteration of the Greek mis-transliteration, Yeysu.

 

Yes we already know that meaning if he comes back the second time and ppl start calling out " Jesus Christ , Jesus Christ " hes gonna look at them and say " are you talkin to me ? "

 

:D .

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This is not a primary source, so I don't have a reference to the scholars sorry. Mary Magdalene was one of several women named Mary who appear in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. She is said in to have witnessed the crucifixion and resurrection. And no, she wasn't married to Jesus :D

 

 

My freind wess let me make something clear if you are gonna make statements with no backup , its gonna amout to a big 0 , so pls back up your statements .

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Any thoughts, comments ??

 

I know the truth is the hardest thing in the world to except regardless of what it is, doing the right thing by people, or by yourself :D

 

But if everyone doesn't then what kind of a world are our children going to grow up in ? :D

 

Real

 

Yeah look in a mirror when saying that freind :D .

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Yeah look in a mirror when saying that freind :D .

 

 

Yeh.....

 

Anyway, did you comprehend what I said about Muhammad not knowing the significance of Abraham's test of killing his son ?

 

Meaning that, do you put your faith in a book totally apart (contradicts) from the bible and itself, since the prophets were all Jewish even in the Quran, so that means that Isaac was the one going to be sacrificed (you did undersatnd that right ?) or do you believe in God's book the bible which does not contain contradictions ?

 

Read the post again and comprehend what it means, please.

How can you make a judgement about the bible if you do not understand it ?

 

Real

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Comprehending your logic mate is not our main priority , what you understand about Islam is not fact it your Misunderstanding of the actual context .

 

The Bible is a book that is corrupted contains 1% word of god some words of the prophet 3/4 words of the historian and Pornography so its natural The Quran which is a holy book does not agree with the bible on many issues .

 

You say we dont understand it do you know who we are or what we know :D ? .

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How is that Possible ? how can three ppl be one but have three different personalities and bodies ? meaning if the sone was on the Cross Screaming " Eli Eli Lama Sabachtani " Did the father and holy ghost feel the pain of the nails ? and why would god shout out to himself ? I think the trinity dont make sense to christians themselves .

 

What you think is not what is true.

 

Three entities, One essence.

It is normal that you do not understand the Holy Trinity, for you are trying to understand God, something that no human can do.

 

Although this does not explain the concept, it might help you see how 3 can be 1:

 

H2o can be liquid (water), solid (ice) and gas (steam).

The human is separated into physical (body), mental (mind) and spiritual (soul).

3 rays of light shone onto one spot, emits one light.

 

Christians have but grasped the basic concept of the Holy Trinity, which God has given us. However, even we will never be able to fully explain how it is to be, as you can not understand God. Your mind cannot grasp it.

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Seems You ignored the Whole post on the Council Of Nice , We understand the trinity all right :D , Three personalities = 1 and the poor holy ghost always seem to get the raw deal .

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Comprehending your logic mate is not our main priority , what you understand about Islam is not fact it your Misunderstanding of the actual context .

 

The Bible is a book that is corrupted contains 1% word of god some words of the prophet 3/4 words of the historian and Pornography so its natural The Quran which is a holy book does not agree with the bible on many issues .

 

You say we dont understand it do you know who we are or what we know :D ? .

 

What is my misunderstanding ? Please help me understand, if I am wrong about something then correct me!

 

Why would you say such a thing about the bible ? If I insult Islam, Muhammad or the Quran I get all kinds of horrible posts pointed at me and will get banned but if you do it, it's O.K. :D

 

Well I wont resort to your level, but I will say that your claim is baseless. Prove it ?

 

Yes.

 

It's not my logic, it's just common sense. What don't you understand ?

 

The whole point of Abraham being tested by God was to test his faith, and show everyone he is a man of great faith.

But it was also the instating of the covenant between the Jews and God. Meaning all prophets will be Jewish and the Jews are God's chosen nation.

You see even the Quran agree's that there were Jewish prophets, by saying that he is also saying that it was Isaac on the table. But it seems he did not understand the significance of the act.

It was also a sign that God does not want people to go to hell (represented by Isaac). And the lamb that replaced Isaac as the sacrifice, represents Jesus taking the place of man, he was punished instead of us (he takes our place) if we accept him as our saviour.

Since in the Quran it says it was Ishmael that means God's covenant never took place. But yet the Quran says that God chose the Jews as his people.

Contradicts.

 

Real

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The Bible is a book that is corrupted contains 1% word of god some words of the prophet 3/4 words of the historian and Pornography so its natural The Quran which is a holy book does not agree with the bible on many issues .

 

Unless you have evidence, do not present such useless accusations please.

 

Link Removed-Amani

Edited by amani

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I have da evidence My Compadres :D dont worry we dont make statements we cant back up here .

 

 

Does the name ahola and aholiba ring a bell , book of ezkeial ?

 

We dont want to post the details here cause we have underaged people here We hope you understand :D .

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What is my misunderstanding ? Please help me understand, if I am wrong about something then correct me!

 

Why would you say such a thing about the bible ? If I insult Islam, Muhammad or the Quran I get all kinds of horrible posts pointed at me and will get banned but if you do it, it's O.K. :D

 

Well I wont resort to your level, but I will say that your claim is baseless. Prove it ?

 

Yes.

 

It's not my logic, it's just common sense. What don't you understand ?

 

The whole point of Abraham being tested by God was to test his faith, and show everyone he is a man of great faith.

But it was also the instating of the covenant between the Jews and God. Meaning all prophets will be Jewish and the Jews are God's chosen nation.

You see even the Quran agree's that there were Jewish prophets, by saying that he is also saying that it was Isaac on the table. But it seems he did not understand the significance of the act.

It was also a sign that God does not want people to go to hell (represented by Isaac). And the lamb that replaced Isaac as the sacrifice, represents Jesus taking the place of man, he was punished instead of us (he takes our place) if we accept him as our saviour.

Since in the Quran it says it was Ishmael that means God's covenant never took place. But yet the Quran says that God chose the Jews as his people.

Contradicts.

 

Real

 

 

Not all prophets were Jews , there were prophets who were not jews Like adam , noah , Abraham who was not a jew :D if yu say he was a jew than you really need to re learn history .

 

Who told you all prophets are jews ?

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Not all prophets were Jews , there were prophets who were not jews Like adam , noah , Abraham who was not a jew :D if yu say he was a jew than you really need to re learn history .

 

Who told you all prophets are jews ?

 

Sorry, I stand corrected, after the covenant (promise) was made all prophets were Jews.

 

Please respond to the other post now.

 

Thanks Real

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I have da evidence My Compadres :D dont worry we dont make statements we cant back up here .

Does the name ahola and aholiba ring a bell , book of ezkeial ?

 

We dont want to post the details here cause we have underaged people here We hope you understand :D .

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Comprehending your logic mate is not our main priority , what you understand about Islam is not fact it your Misunderstanding of the actual context .

 

You say we dont understand it do you know who we are or what we know :D ? .

 

 

Yeh,

 

Islam in a nutshell:

 

We believe in God, who is unseen.

And God gave us a law we should follow.

Do more good deeds than bad and you will be saved.

 

??

 

Real

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What is Your Q mate ! , I have a lot more than Ezekial by the way But i will use it as an appetiser :D .

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What is Your Q mate ! , I have a lot more than Ezekial by the way But i will use it as an appetiser :D .

 

Please read my thread about understanding Christianity first, because it is clear you do not understand it and many others do not. Which feeds endless pointless debates because of using inaccurate knowledge.

 

gawaher/index.php?showtopic=24495

 

Learn the basics first then ask questions and remember the bible was written 600 years before the Quran.

 

The facts we have are:

 

The Quran contradict's the bible in many places on key doctrines. The bible does not contradict itself on key doctrine.

 

One point:

It is Isaac who was chosen in the bible to have been almost sacrificed by Abraham. In the Quran it says it was Ishmael.

 

In the bible the reason we know it was Isaac, was because all the prophets were Jewish and the law was only given to the Jews they only preached to Jews and none were Arabs. The covenant was clearly with the Jews. Jesus was also Jewish who became the lamb that was sacrificed instead of men in hell, which this act represented. It is clear that Muhammad did not understand the real reason this was done as a test to Abraham.

 

Conclusion: The bible's account is accurate.

 

Also:

The OT even says that israel will never lose a war, will become the nation of israel again after being dispersed throughout the world and the Jews even though small in number will be very helpful and important part of many communities in the world (smart and integrate in the country they live in).

 

Thanks Real

 

Who's account is accurate the Bible or Quran's ? With proof this time !

 

Real

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The Quran without a doubt , We will show you why as soon as you start answering our Q's :D .

 

The were prophets Like Hud and saalih and Muhhamad PBUH , this actually proves the bible to be unreliable as the Quran clealry tells Prophet Muhmmad that their are prophets he was never told of meaning not all were jews or arabs they could have been american indian even . But since your Biblical man made narrow minded doctrine cannot comprehend this sort of understanding you will arrive to such a conclusion .

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The Quran without a doubt , We will show you why as soon as you start answering our Q's :D .

 

Where is the proof, I asked first !

 

The only way you can make the Quran true, is by saying the entire bible is corrupted. Which is baseless and absurd.

 

Real

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Well Seems you are backing out already heh ?

 

The Quran is right and the bible wrong not only on this issue friend , now lets see you take the Book of ezkeial by the horns .

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The Quran without a doubt , We will show you why as soon as you start answering our Q's :D .

 

The were prophets Like Hud and saalih and Muhhamad PBUH , this actually proves the bible to be unreliable as the Quran clealry tells Prophet Muhmmad that their are prophets he was never told of meaning not all were jews or arabs they could have been american indian even . But since your Biblical man made narrow minded doctrine cannot comprehend this sort of understanding you will arrive to such a conclusion .

 

This proves nothing ?? still waiting ....

 

Real

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