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al-gharib

Some Issueswith The Topic Who This Forum Is Not For!

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Al Farooq: I am Allhamdolillah, are you quite sure on what you are following?

 

Al Faqeer: No

 

Unless you try delete it now, all one needs to do is browse through your posts Al Faqeer, and No you havnt struck a nerve :D

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I am not trying to delete anything akhi I do not know IF what I follow is the truth , are you better than sayidina Umar ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ?

 

Now either You prove what you said that we call on the dead or we are gonna have a major problem inshallah .

 

Its obvious you are trying to divert the topic bro so we will just have to keep on posting the same thing it seems :

 

Nowadays In performing Dawah to people You have to spoon feed them like babies and not force the dawah down their throats .

 

Calling on to the path of Allah SWT through wisdom and good advice is the way dear brothers and sisters and the brother has told you that the main objective is non muslims , and there is no way to get things over to non muslim if you want to start with the harsh heartedness first .

 

 

125 Call to the Path of your Lord with wisdom and fine admonition. Dispute with them in the best manner. Your Lord is well aware of those who have gone astray from His Path and He is well aware of those who are guided

 

 

159 It was by that Mercy of Allah that you (Prophet Muhammad) dealt so leniently with them. Had you been harsh and hard-hearted, they would have surely deserted you. Therefore, pardon them and ask forgiveness for them. Take counsel with them in the matter and when you are resolved, put your trust in Allah. Allah loves those who trust. 160

 

Inshallah We will live up to Our name as the Moderate Ummah akhi dot , and the shidda in the dawa will be dealt with , but obviously it will take some time .

 

Shukran

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Brothers and sisters, this is a serious matter. Please do not twist this into a personality conflict. Name-calling is not suitable in this discussion. There is a major difference in understanding between members of the Forum regarding the issue at hand. Let us calmly resolve it, instead of creating hurdles and going off-topic.

 

Wassalam

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Now either You prove what you said that we call on the dead or we are gonna have a major problem inshallah .

 

Is that a threat ? and where did you get "we" from, i didnt mention anyone else apart from You and stop repeating your post over and over, we can read

 

Struck a nerve have we ?

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Brothers and sisters, this is a serious matter. Please do not twist this into a personality conflict. Name-calling is not suitable in this discussion. There is a major difference in understanding between members of the Forum regarding the issue at hand. Let us calmly resolve it, instead of creating hurdles and going off-topic.

 

Wassalam

As-salaamu 'alaikum

 

Barak'Allaahuu feekum!

 

Was-salaamu 'alaikum

 

Aboo Uthmaan

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Well You can understand it as you like freind , If you cant backup your accusation with evdence What will u be called ? :D.

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Strength is in showing restraint. Not in retaliation. :D

 

Wassalam

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Well You can understand it as you like freind , If you cant backup your accusation with evdence What will u be called ? :D.

 

:D

 

1st Akhi

Now freind ?

What next ? :D

 

Akhi all one has to do is browse through the Advanced Islamic Discussion and they can just tell from your posts, you never come out with it outright though

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salam. sorry if some people mis understood what im trying to say.

 

there is a thread by the moderators called who this forum is not for (www.)"http://gawaher/index.php?showtopic=24694"]gawaher/index.php?showtopic=24694[/url]

 

 

 

i copied and pasted 2 of their points regarding following the quran and sunnah and salaf exclusively. and one point regarding beard.

andi made comments on them.

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Al Faqeer my evidence that you believe in calling upon dead people is in these posts, one can just read all your replies, and please dont delete them now

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=22676&hl=dead"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=22676&hl=dead[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16591&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16591&hl=[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=17256&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=17256&hl=[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16562&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=16562&hl=[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=14640&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=14640&hl=[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=10375&hl="]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=10375&hl=[/url]

 

 

Can you retract your threat now ?

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Well IF you produce evidence that I said call on the dead brother , non of what you posted proves what you have accused me of :D , You have diverted this topic akhi thats all u have done but when the truth hurts that happens .

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Nowadays In performing Dawah to people You have to spoon feed them like babies and not force the dawah down their throats .

 

Calling on to the path of Allah SWT through wisdom and good advice is the way dear brothers and sisters and the brother has told you that the main objective is non muslims , and there is no way to get things over to non muslim if you want to start with the harsh heartedness first .

125 Call to the Path of your Lord with wisdom and fine admonition. Dispute with them in the best manner. Your Lord is well aware of those who have gone astray from His Path and He is well aware of those who are guided

 

159 It was by that Mercy of Allah that you (Prophet Muhammad) dealt so leniently with them. Had you been harsh and hard-hearted, they would have surely deserted you. Therefore, pardon them and ask forgiveness for them. Take counsel with them in the matter and when you are resolved, put your trust in Allah. Allah loves those who trust. 160

 

Inshallah We will live up to Our name as the Moderate Ummah akhi dot , and the shidda in the dawa will be dealt with , but obviously it will take some time .

 

Shukran

 

 

:D

 

To get back to the original subject shukran .

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There is a repetition of the word da'awah in reference to the topic at hand. Da'awah is mostly from the two Q&A sections that I handle.

 

Can any one please point out the application of any of the points highlighted by brother dot in any of the posts in those two sections?

 

I think the negative is from the Advanced Islamic Discussion, where I would not expect non-Muslims and new Muslims to go. That is the section that must receive brother dot's attention. I think the generalisation has done more damage than good.

 

Wassalam

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Well akhi no one has pointed a finger to any1 particular so You yourself Abu rafay are not on trial here for what you answer it those sections which u have done a good job of until now bro along with every1 else .

 

akhi The advance section there are only a few participants , you and me being part of it who else aboo utmaan and a few other members you can count on your hands , its not a bad influence akhi , its the way we give things over to each other .

 

and one more thing akhi We need to get one thing straight this is not a salafi forum .

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and one more thing akhi We need to get one thing straight this is not a salafi forum .

 

So what is it? A Sufee Forum ? who are you to decide what Forum this is ?

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The only thing wrong with this forum is these constant arguments that doesnt get us anywhere between some of the more knowledgable members here. DOesnt matter whether youa re salafi or sufi or whatever, but surely these back and forth senseless arguments are quite ridiculous. All we can do is present our case and learn to disagree amicably.

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My question avoided. Why is da'awah being used as a measure to warn members? Who has done negative da'awah?

 

What I have done in those two sections, with the help of my brothers and sisters, is to please Allah :D. May be this could take me to Jannah.

 

As for AID section I only post when I see a problem with somebody's aqeedah.

 

This is off-topic, but needs to be responded. As regards it being a salafi site or not, this is just in the perception of those who feel challenged. If incorrect aqeedah is corrected with reference to the Qur'an and Sunnah, it does not matter what anybody thinks. It is our obligation to do amr bil ma'aroof nahee anil munkar. Any Muslim who feels that he has the knowledge to correct another Muslim is just doing his duty.

 

Wassalam

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My question avoided. Why is da'awah being used as a measure to warn members? Who has done negative da'awah?

 

What I have done in those two sections, with the help of my brothers and sisters, is to please Allah :D. May be this could take me to Jannah.

 

As for AID section I only post when I see a problem with somebody's aqeedah.

 

This is off-topic, but needs to be responded. As regards it being a salafi site or not, this is just in the perception of those who feel challenged. If incorrect aqeedah is corrected with reference to the Qur'an and Sunnah, it does not matter what anybody thinks. It is our obligation to do amr bil ma'aroof nahee anil munkar. Any Muslim who feels that he has the knowledge to correct another Muslim is just doing his duty.

 

Wassalam

 

:D

 

:D Akh, very well said, especialy the last bit

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My question avoided. Why is da'awah being used as a measure to warn members? Who has done negative da'awah?

 

What I have done in those two sections, with the help of my brothers and sisters, is to please Allah :D. May be this could take me to Jannah.

 

As for AID section I only post when I see a problem with somebody's aqeedah.

 

This is off-topic, but needs to be responded. As regards it being a salafi site or not, this is just in the perception of those who feel challenged. If incorrect aqeedah is corrected with reference to the Qur'an and Sunnah, it does not matter what anybody thinks. It is our obligation to do amr bil ma'aroof nahee anil munkar. Any Muslim who feels that he has the knowledge to correct another Muslim is just doing his duty.

 

Wassalam

 

:D

 

You only post there if you see a problem with a persons aqeedah ? so does that make your aqeedah as 100 % ? You see its that holier than thou attitude that leads where we are now .

 

You are doing your duty according to what you think akhi , But dont think of yourself as better than the next person .

 

ITs not a salafi forum akhi , feel challenged or not .

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Brother aburafay,

You said the forum is a window to Islam that I've opened, I agree. But notice that its 'a' window, as in one in 'a' thousands of windows to Islam. Each window is run by people who must have their own policy and vision on which road to take, and which means to use, and which audience to address. This window happens to favor whats mentioned in the Quran over what the salaf's own understanding was. The Quran and authentic sunnah are valid for all ages, while the views of the sahaba and salaf were good for their own time, according to their limited ability to interpret and relate, which may or may not be correct in our time. An example of that is any of the scientific miracles in the Quran. Naturally no correct tafsir was given at the time of the sahaba and salaf, because man discovered these scientific facts only recently, and so we began to understand and appreciate the miracles inside the meaning of these glorious ayat only today. Go back to the tafsir given in the old days of Islam and you'll propaly laugh at how they understood these ayat. But thats as far as they could get at the time. They are humans, with abilities limited by their Creators, related to the time they lived in. The words of Allah :D , on the other hand, is immortal, and good for all time, to the end of time. A moderate Muslim, as I understand and try to implement on this forum, is one who accepts these simple facts, one who favors todays tafsir of the Quran, which builds on the tafsir of the salaf, but refine it based on new findings and the age we live in. One who spends more time thinking on how this ummah can find harmony between obeying our Lord and dealing with new technologies and the issues it brought to our lives, and less time debating on growing beards, covering everyone's face, what to do and say before we go into, or out of toilets, and dumping anything new with a bid'aa label. The basis of the idea of bid'aa contradicts the spirit of Islam and the Quran itself. If we Muslims know that Islam and the Quran is and will be valid for all ages, then we have already accepted the importance of renovating our understanding of them over time.

 

I strongly think that we're not going to be strong enough for our enemies by doing more toilet rituals or growing more beards, but by spending more time innovating in all aspects. The starting point should be for us to find ways to revive our understanding of Islam, cling to the heart of our deen, not the decorations. Live Islam in everything we do, in classes, labs, and what we do for living. Only then we can be strong enough to sweep away all enemies, by turning them into Islam instead.

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:D Akh, very well said, especialy the last bit

 

:D brother!

 

Wa iyyakum.

 

Wassalam

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Brother aburafay,

You said the forum is a window to Islam that I've opened, I agree. But notice that its 'a' window, as in one in 'a' thousands of windows to Islam. Each window is run by people who must have their own policy and vision on which road to take, and which means to use, and which audience to address. This window happens to favor whats mentioned in the Quran over what the salaf's own understanding was. The Quran and authentic sunnah are valid for all ages, while the views of the sahaba and salaf were good for their time, according to their limited ability to interpret and relate. An example of that is any of the scientific miracles in the Quran. Naturally no correct tafsir was given at the time of the sahaba and salaf, because man discovered these scientific facts only recently, and so we began to understand and appreciate the miracles inside the meaning of these glorious ayat only today. Go back to the tafsir given in the old days of Islam and you'll propaly laugh at how they understood these ayat. But thats as far as they could get at the time. They are humans, with abilities limited by their Creators, related to the time they lived in. The words of Allah :D , on the other hand, is immortal, and good for all time, to the end of time. A moderate Muslim, as I understand and try to implement on this forum, is one who accepts these simple facts, one who favors todays tafsir of the Quran, which builds on the tafsir of the salaf, but refine it based on new findings and the age we live in. One who spends more time thinking on how this ummah can find harmony between obeying our Lord and dealing with new technologies and the issues it brought to our lives, and less time debating on growing beards and covering everyone's face.

 

 

:D brother!

 

I couldn't agree more with you on mist of what you have said.

 

Just a few comments though.

 

Firstly, I do not use quotations from the salaf, so apparently I am not at fault here. But, the understanding of the Qur'an was not laughable as you state. Book 60 in Sahih Bukhari is devoted to tafsir on the Qur'an by Rasool Allah :D. It has 501 ahadith in which various ayah that needed clarification are explained. I do not believe anybody could do a better tafsir than the one who received the Qur'an and was always guided by revelations from Allah :D. It is true that some things are being discovered now by science, and found to exist in the Qur'an and Sunnah. But this does not negate the other aspects of the Qur'an. The legal aspect is as it was. And, that is what concerns us more. No obligation or prohibition has changed, and can change. Interpretations can differ, but the Qur'an and Sunnah will remain unchanged, as you have mentioned.

 

Secondly, I have been challenged by my illustrious brothers and sisters for using references from tafsir by a modern-day scholar, and they insist that we must refer to the tafsir by scholars who lived atleast few hundred years ago. The point you make is then at the members who insist on using older scholars for their benchmark. It is not the six items you have pointed in your topic under reference then, it is the members who use old interpretations. Am I correct?

 

As regards the 6 topics, I think the first one is a non-issue for me, and is definitely something that every Muslim must adopt in practice. The second one is already in the Rules framed by you. The third, is a matter between the person and Allah :D. If he/she believes that there is no way out and commits suicide, I would leave it as a matter that I do not know. Allah :D will either treat it as suicide, or may accept it as jihad fee sabeel Allah. Allaho Aalam. Fourth I do not agree with as they are not matters of interpretations or judgement, as they are in the Qur'an and hadith. Some of the items are new, and would require ijtihad, which has been done and the conclusion drawn by modern-day scholars. The fifth has already been covered above. The sixth is a matter of interpretation. We should follow what we are convinced with, and convey to others both sides of the picture for them to decide for themselves. One sided answers should not be accepted, specially from people with knowledge.

 

As regards bida'a, I believe that the definition is quite clear, and it should be explained in a topic to clarify.

 

The reference to da'awah is a point I raised as members kept refering to it. I do not think that da'awa is at risk, except for the AID section. I believe that even the Muslims who go there will be confused. I suggest that you have a poll and decide on that section's benefit, or lack of it, on the forum. I feel a lot of energy is wasted to create a negative impact on the forum.

 

Wassalam

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I have to agree with you brother dot on these issues for instance again and again ppl posting about Hijrah from Kaafir lands which i find totally Absurd , they Quote Ibn Qayyim Jawziya who lived some 500 years ago if not more they say move to Islamic countries , yet these same ppl in other posts Say there are no more Islamic countries and The rulers are corrupt ????????

 

The point is You cant apply the same things in religion to all times , now the fundamentals stay as is but like the one mentioned here it is clearly not .

 

as for bida this is the Obsession of the Hardliners , everything and anything that was not around in the first century Islam is bida , which is even more Absurd and easy to prove them wrong .

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As-salaamu 'alaikum

 

It is very strange that Muslims who always state that other Muslims follow the scholars of the Khalaf and not the Salaf are now agreeing with brother Dot on the issue of how we should follow the scholars of the Khalaf.

 

And it would seem that some cannot have a mature discussion about the crux of the issue, and this is the Usool of everything that follows on from that.

 

Was-salaamu 'alaikum

 

Aboo Uthmaan

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:D

 

LOL. the member who keeps criticising me for refering to scholars of the last few centuries is here saying that it is wrong to refer to older scholars. I need not say any further. :D

 

As for bida'a, there is total misunderstanding and misinterpretation. I have said that the definition of bida'a is very clear from the Sunnah. The generalised statement combining bida'a and salafis shows bad intent.

 

Wassalam

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