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northernhoard

Fine Line Between Anti-semiticism And Critical Inquiry

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Anti-semiticism as a big problem everywhere and historically this has shown to be consistent, however at the same time when the Isreali Government are destroying Palistinian Arhceological remains as a means of wiping out the history of a group of people who are indigenious to a particular piece of land, and when the same Government tries to create a physical partition of the country to keep Palistinians out we really have to start asking serious and critical questions about a Nation that on the one hand commands sympathy whilst on the other hand that same Government/culture is treating the Palistinians in a similar way to how they themselves were treated bythe Nazi's.

 

Then there is Iraels over friendly relationship with the US, what are people supposed to think about all of this, I myself think israel is well out of order politically and that there has been some moves to give back stolen land to the Palistinian people.

 

It is easy though to get dragged into the conspiracy theory stuff about Zionsim wanting to take the world over, ,but we must remember that this theory comes from a series of NAzi forged documents called the Protocals of Zion.

 

Whilst israel is acting the way it does I will always be critical of them, people can call me anti-semitic for this but I aint being anti-semitic, similarly I dont like the way that Saudi Arabia operates but that doesnt make me anti-Islam.

 

peace out!

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PropellerAds

Hi northernhoard,

 

Any criticism of israel is exactly that anti-semitic, so make sure you act like a lemming unless you gonna be done over by Mossad. :D

 

israel Zionists control the West in every way possible from the Government to the Media there aint nothing any one can do about it..unless Allah(swt) wakes the masses up from these countries to realise what is actually going on.

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Any criticism of israel is exactly that anti-semitic, so make sure you act like a lemming unless you gonna be done over by Mossad. :D

2 years ago a member of parliament in my country (Germany) held a speech that was harshly criticised as antisemitic. In the heated discussions at that time I watched a talk on tv, and the Jewish paticipant in the round (embassador of israel, afair) drew a clear line between antisemitism an criticism of israel. He even named examples of criticism of israel that he didn't approve (of course :D ) but labelled "legitimate".

 

So if the Mossad comes upon You, just tell them Your criticism of israel has been called legitimate by Primor, the (former?) embassador of israel to Germany. :D Unless, of course, You are antisemitic.

 

israel Zionists control the West in every way possible from the Government to the Media there aint nothing any one can do about it

I live in a town where most local newspapers are issued by one press house, the Axel Springer Verlag (there is a Springer Verlag that has no connections to it, issuing high quality scientific books and the like). Some years ago some leftists started to issue a newspaper to break that monopoly. They succeeded, the newspaper (TAZ) now is not only sold in my town, but all over Germany. It is rather critical on israel, btw. Like parts of the Axel Springer Press, which covers different political flavors (though no definitely left ones).

 

You can do something, and if things really were such bad as You paint them, they won't last long.

 

80 Years ago, the Jewish influence in Germany was much stronger than now, but the Jews had no means to stop the Hugenberg media group, backed up by money from Thyssen and other big companies, to push a nobody named Hiltler into a leader of a mass movement babbling about the Germans being enslaved by the Jews. This shows who really controlled Germany at that time: the antisemitists.

 

Only an antisemitist will call a country "a land controlled by the Zionists" just because it is free of antisemistic dominance . The Zionists can't even control all Jews living here.

Edited by looking by

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Anti-semiticism as a big problem everywhere and historically this has shown to be consistent, however at the same time when the Isreali Government are destroying Palistinian Arhceological remains as a means of wiping out the history of a group of people who are indigenious to a particular piece of land, and when the same Government tries to create a physical partition of the country to keep Palistinians out we really have to start asking serious and critical questions about a Nation that on the one hand commands sympathy whilst on the other hand that same Government/culture is treating the Palistinians in a similar way to how they themselves were treated bythe Nazi's.

 

Then there is Iraels over friendly relationship with the US, what are people supposed to think about all of this, I myself think israel is well out of order politically and that there has been some moves to give back stolen land to the Palistinian people.

 

It is easy though to get dragged into the conspiracy theory stuff about Zionsim wanting to take the world over, ,but we must remember that this theory comes from a series of NAzi forged documents called the Protocals of Zion.

 

Whilst israel is acting the way it does I will always be critical of them, people can call me anti-semitic for this but I aint being anti-semitic, similarly I dont like the way that Saudi Arabia operates but that doesnt make me anti-Islam.

 

peace out!

Just to let you know. Rascist and sexist things are not necessarily false.

 

example

Most Jewish people are cheap - hey it's rascist/anti-semetic! but its true.

Most brown people are even cheaper - it's rascist, true and funny as hell when you see it happen live.

Most black people have large noses (relative to all other humans) - hey its rascist but its true.

Women in general are physically weaker then man - its sexist and its true.

 

Anti-Semetic comments can be true.

Anti-any race comments can be true.

 

Dissing on israel, is dissing on the government which by my view is perfectly tolerable and should be granted in free society. When you start saying stuff like "the Jews kill Palestinians" well it is true, but very very very misleading to put it that way. God I hate politcs :D

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Hi northernhoard,

 

Any criticism of israel is exactly that anti-semitic, so make sure you act like a lemming unless you gonna be done over by Mossad. :D

 

israel Zionists control the West in every way possible from the Government to the Media there aint nothing any one can do about it..unless Allah(swt) wakes the masses up from these countries to realise what is actually going on.

 

Of course they do. In fact it is so ingrained in my subconcious by the evil zionist media that when ever I see the word israel my body is conditioned to feel a calm happy state. Where when I see the word Palestine I get grumpy and indegestine.

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Of course they do. In fact it is so ingrained in my subconcious by the evil zionist media that when ever I see the word israel my body is conditioned to feel a calm happy state. Where when I see the word Palestine I get grumpy and indegestine.

 

:D Arab media has made me completely the opposite

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Northernhoard,

 

Don't worry about being anti-semitic, your just being critical. What's important is that you are speaking of the Isreal's government's action and not all Isreal's in general. Isreal's are people just like us with both good and bad qualities. To speak of the bad qualities in a fair and balanced manner is not anti-semitic.

 

The same applies in the reverse. I think it's just as bad to be pro-Isreali, or pro-US, or pro-Muslim. To believe that a race, or people of a particular country or religion are without fault is just as bad as believing that a race is evil.

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The same applies in the reverse. I think it's just as bad to be pro-Isreali, or pro-US, or pro-Muslim. To believe that a race, or people of a particular country or religion are without fault is just as bad as believing that a race is evil.

 

I agree, being pro any race is implicit discrimination. Pride in being of a specific race and the nationalistic notions that arise from it are one of the greatest causes of conflicts and prevent society from becoming diverse. Being a member of a certain race should not be grounds for positive or negative discrimination but the majority of stupid mankind still does this.

Edited by 3dshocker

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Assalamualaikum/Greetings,

 

I am always disturbed that anti-semitism is almost always (even among Muslims who should know better) taken to mean anti-Jewish. This probably goes to show how much media conditioning has influenced people's mindsets.

 

The Arabs, being descended from Ismail (pbuh), brother of Isaac (pbuh),are also a semitic race (surprise, surprise!) so why is it that being anti-Arab is not also normally taken to be anti-semitism?

 

Mere criticism of Zionism and some of the things that some Jews do is deliberately translated into rabid anti-semitism, while insults and even extreme atrocities against Arabs and other Muslims - even children - is excused on the grounds of free speech and collateral damage (they just happened to be in the way of a greater cause and in any case they or their kind deserve it).

 

In this regard credit (in USD) must be given to the Jewish or rather zionist/US imperialist propaganda machine. Wake up, Muslims!

 

Personally, even in the face of such extreme provocation, I am more inclined not to let blind hatred get the better of us in response, while at the same time trying to avoid meekly being led to the slaughter - now THAT is the fine line.

 

Wassalam/Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

One God One Religion One Community One Nation

Edited by yusufar

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Peace from our Lord,

I am always disturbed that anti-semitism is almost always (even among Muslims who should know better) taken to mean anti-Jewish. This probably goes to show how much media conditioning has influenced people's mindsets.

It's not our, it's Your mindset that is "wrong conditioned". The term antisemitist was coined by German antisemitists that published a periodical called "Der Antisemit" (the antisemitist). So, from the very start antisemitism meant anti-jewish ideology.

 

Language is not a logical construct, every language ghot tom its present state by historical processes. Trying to avoid every "illogical" term is ridiculous. The term antisemitism has been coined more than 100 years ago, and unless You want to confuse minds, do not try to change it. If You think it was ill-coined, blame the German antisemitists in the last decade of the 19th century.

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Peace from our Lord,

 

It's not our, it's Your mindset that is "wrong conditioned". The term antisemitist was coined by German antisemitists that published a periodical called "Der Antisemit" (the antisemitist). So, from the very start antisemitism meant anti-jewish ideology.

 

Language is not a logical construct, every language ghot tom its present state by historical processes. Trying to avoid every "illogical" term is ridiculous. The term antisemitism has been coined more than 100 years ago, and unless You want to confuse minds, do not try to change it. If You think it was ill-coined, blame the German antisemitists in the last decade of the 19th century.

 

Peace from God to you,

 

If you say that language is not a logical construct, what does that mean, that it does not say what it means or that it means something else other than what it says?

 

Whether you realise it or not, you have just made out a case for your own mindset being "wrong conditioned" when you say that from the very start antisemitism meant anti-jewish ideology. That is exactly how you have been conditioned to think, no matter how illogical it is - to the extent that you believe that trying to avoid every "illogical" term is ridiculous.

 

What is even more ridiculous perhaps is NOT trying to avoid every "illogical" term.

 

Just because some anti-Jews coined the term 100 years ago does not make its then or current usage right. And because many Jews and their supporters have conveniently used it against the slightest criticism of them (no matter how well-deserved and which may not even be racial or racist in origin) makes all the more reason why its usage should be changed.

 

I'm not up to confusing minds - that I'll leave to the many Jews and people like you of similar predeliction. :D

 

What's confusing is for an Arab to be labelled an anti-semite for criticizing the Jews when the Arabs are just as much a semitic race as the Jews.

 

This issue has to be clarified so that similar criticism of Arabs will also be correctly labelled as anti-semitic. This will certainly avoid all unnecessary confusion and the Jews will lose one weapon in their vast armoury of weapons against (well-deserved) criticism.

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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An egg plant contain no egg. A peanut isn't a nut it is a legume. Language isn't a logical construct means exactly that, the meaning of words is agreed upon.

 

Just like spellings can be illogical so can words dues to their etymology. You may point out inconsistencies but that doesn't change the fact that anti-semetic means racism against Judaism. A semite is a person of certain decent, their ancestors were from around the Middle East.

 

Words aquire meaning through the way they are used, what reason is there to call and apple an apple other than it was decided upon thousands of years ago and the term changed over the years to its current form.

 

We don't need to change words when we already have perfectly good ones, you are proposing some kind of Orwellian New Speak! This is the most childish argument I have ever heard!

 

Please realise that not all words make sense if you analyse them, that doesn't mean that there is any sense in being **** about it.

Edited by yusufar

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An egg plant contain no egg. A peanut isn't a nut it is a legume. Language isn't a logical construct means exactly that, the meaning of words is agreed upon.

 

We are not talking about plants, nuts or legumes here or are we? What is there to say that a more logical meaning cannot be agreed upon?

 

Just like spellings can be illogical so can words dues to their etymology. You may point out inconsistencies but that doesn't change the fact that anti-semetic means racism against Judaism. A semite is a person of certain decent, their ancestors were from around the Middle East.

 

Racism against Judaism? Now that is pretty confused. Is Judaism a race? Or is this another term which has a different illogical meaning as well? Of course a semite is a person of a certain descent and of course their ancestors were from around the middle east - doesn't that include Arabs as well?

 

Words aquire meaning through the way they are used, what reason is there to call and apple an apple other than it was decided upon thousands of years ago and the term changed over the years to its current form.

 

Sure, and a hotdog is also a hotdog because it has been decided upon. But as you point out, terms change. What is a hotdog today may not be a hotdog as we know it today in another 100 years. Language is full of such examples. Language is dynamic and it changes with time.

 

We don't need to change words when we already have perfectly good ones, you are proposing some kind of Orwellian New Speak! This is the most childish argument I have ever heard!

 

"Orwellian New Speak" childish? Certainly not. I'm just proposing a logical usage of a word which has been abused by its purported victims. If you see any thing wrong about that, then there must be something wrong with you.

 

Please realise that not all words make sense if you analyse them, that doesn't mean that there is any sense in being **** about it.

 

This is a plain nonsensical statement. All words must make some sense whether under analysis or not. You appear to have a certain fixation, but I'm sure you know how that can be cured. :D

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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New Speak is all about making language simpler, less ornate and more logical. The comparison stands. You are being pedantic, I had this argument when I was 10 and I found out that a semite was a person of middle eastern decent, so I naively thought that meant that anyone using anti-semitism as anti-jewish was wrong. What I did was mistake the etymology of a word with its meaning. Anti-semitism is discrimination against Jews.

 

The term is clear, why bother changing it to anti-jew. There is no need, otherwise we should change peanut and eggplant and the many other examples of "misnomers" in english.

 

If you can't understand this then I can only conclude that you are either an extreme pedant, playing devil's advocate or perhaps mentally challenged. It's really not an issue, anti semitism, look it up in the dictionary!

Edited by cogito

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Hello and :D

 

It is also important to note here that the Jews of today living in israel aren't even Semitic! They're Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe and Russia. They have no lineage to the original Bani israel. So, first of all, they would accuse you of being anti-Eastern European, which you still wouldn't be because you are just criticizing their foreign policy.

 

The Palestinians are a Semitic people, though. And many israelis, espeically in the Government, are not only murderers but also racist towards the Palestinians. So, oddly enough, some israelis are anti-Semitic.

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New Speak is all about making language simpler, less ornate and more logical. The comparison stands. You are being pedantic, I had this argument when I was 10 and I found out that a semite was a person of middle eastern decent, so I naively thought that meant that anyone using anti-semitism as anti-jewish was wrong. What I did was mistake the etymology of a word with its meaning. Anti-semitism is discrimination against Jews.

 

Me pedantic? Far from it. Just trying to clarify things, that's all. Just because a word is used in a certain way by certain people does not make its usage correct even if accepted by all the purported authorities/dictionaries of the world. If they are wrong, they are wrong.

 

There may come a time when people accept the fact that anti-semitism is wrongly used when it refers only to Jews and that it should also refer to Arabs. Once proper usage becomes acceptable, this would then put right the present wrong usage and abuse of this term.

 

Actually what I object to more is the abuse of the term by the purported victims of "anti-semitism", the Jews. They hurl it all all and sundry who merely criticize some of the more unsavoury things that some of them - especially the Zionists - do, in unseeming attempts to shout down and drown out all such criticism.

 

They have gotten away with it for too long, and their attempts have been made all the much easier by a loose interpretation of the term "anti-semitism". They would not be able to do so easily if this term was given its proper meaning to include "anti-Arab" as well.

 

The term is clear, why bother changing it to anti-jew. There is no need, otherwise we should change peanut and eggplant and the many other examples of "misnomers" in english.

 

I have nothing against innocent "misnomers" which are not abused for ulterior motives. That is why I bother when a term such as this can and is misused. I am not for change just for the sake of change.

 

If you can't understand this then I can only conclude that you are either an extreme pedant, playing devil's advocate or perhaps mentally challenged. It's really not an issue, anti semitism, look it up in the dictionary!

 

Your conclusion is a reflection of your own bias and prejudice and a big smokescreen over the whole issue. If it's not really an issue, then what are you going on about it for?

 

It is an issue, look it up in the Merriam Webster "Third New International Dictionary - Unabridged" where the current entry on anti-semitism reads as follows: "1) hostility toward Jews as a religious or racial minority group, often accompanied by social, political or economic discrimination (2) opposition to Zionism (3) sympathy for the opponents of israel."!

 

I hope you do see this attempt at abuse, or perhaps being mentally challenged I am the only one who sees it. :D (Couldn't find a mentally challenged smiley - administrators please take note :D or maybe this is it :D ).

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

Edited by yusufar

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What alterior motive is there in calling anti-jewsish behaviour anti-semitism. That is the way language has developed.

 

If you want to be pedantic then let us assume that we now call anti-semitism, anti-judaism. What realistically changes? The word anti-semitism would never be used, we would just be calling it something else. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

 

Anti semitism would still exist, we would just be calling it something different. How would the world change if we called apples bananas and bananas apples? It wouldn't change because it is the agreed meaning that matters not the etymology of the word. It is not as if the term has been hijacked by jews, it was coined with the present meaning in mind.

 

Why discuss semantics when we can discuss the real issue, which is at what point does criticism of someone who is jewish become anti semitism. When you criticise or dislike someone based purely on their membership of a group into which they were born and can never change then this is completely despicable. It isn't anti semitic to dislike a jewish person as long as you don't dislike them for being jewish.

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What alterior motive is there in calling anti-jewsish behaviour anti-semitism. That is the way language has developed.

 

If you want to be pedantic then let us assume that we now call anti-semitism, anti-judaism. What realistically changes? The word anti-semitism would never be used, we would just be calling it something else. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

 

Anti semitism would still exist, we would just be calling it something different. How would the world change if we called apples bananas and bananas apples? It wouldn't change because it is the agreed meaning that matters not the etymology of the word. It is not as if the term has been hijacked by jews, it was coined with the present meaning in mind.

 

Why discuss semantics when we can discuss the real issue, which is at what point does criticism of someone who is jewish become anti semitism. When you criticise or dislike someone based purely on their membership of a group into which they were born and can never change then this is completely despicable. It isn't anti semitic to dislike a jewish person as long as you don't dislike them for being jewish.

 

My, my, you really do love to argue don't you? But we may be talking at cross purposes here. (Anyway, why would you want to argue with someone who is mentally challenged? :D )

 

I never said anything about anyone having any "ulterior motive". If this is the way language has developed, then why can't it also develop (or redevelop) in a more positive and logical way as well? I really wonder who's being pedantic here.

 

What has anti-semitism to do with anti-Judaism? Is Judaism a race or a religion? I'm not saying that the word anti-semitism cannot be used. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be used to refer only to Jews, since they are not the only semitic race in the Middle East.

 

Your example does not make any sense. This is not merely about changing the name or the term for the sake of change but still meaning the same thing. I'm not talking about changing apples to bananas here.

 

In the first place what is the agreed meaning of "semite"? The Merriam-Webster Online Dicitonary says: "Main Entry: Sem·ite

Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt

Function: noun

Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm

1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples

2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language"

 

Do you see the inconsistency here? Why should "anti-semite" only refer to "anti-Jew" then?

 

The term anti-Jewish would still come under the definition of anti-semitic, but anti-semitic does not only include anti-Jewish but also anti-Arab and anti-whatever other semitic races/their descendants there are.

 

In other words, I am talking about being more specific here - a rose includes both red and white roses, but a red rose is not a white rose and to say that it is is an abuse, even if somehow it has come to be accepted y all the dictionaries in the world. Understand?

 

Furthermore I beg to differ, the term has been hijacked by some Jews (and their supporters) for their exclusive use and abuse. These would have no qualms about calling an Arab an anti-semite, even though the Arab was a semite himself.

 

It is not merely semantics at stake here. I (and all Muslims) are supposed to be non-racist. We cannot dislike anyone (including Jews) just because of their race. Is that clear?

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

Edited by yusufar

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I am really not getting through to you!

 

We don't go through language and correct every inconsistency that has developped over time.

 

YOU JUST SAID THE TERM HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY JEWS! If you want a term for someone who is against Arabs the the term should be anti Arab. Anti Semite would have no meaning in this hypothetical world of yours, who needs a term to descriube the act of prejudice against the combined descendants of the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

 

My point is that the world wouldn't be different in any way if we changes the term anti semite to anti jew. We would just replace one word with another and alter their meaning in the dictionary. This may be logical, but it is equally pointless and futile! Can you understand this point at least?

 

Semite means one thing, but anti semite means another. Just like flammable and inflammable mean the same thing despite the way they look! There are so many words we could change, but we don't because that is the beauty of language, its point is to communicate and if the dictionary says anti semite means a certain thing then we can all use it in this way and understand each other.

 

As a human being "I am supposed to be non-racist. I cannot dislike anyone (including Jews) just because of their race. Is that clear?"

 

This is such a non issue and I am afraid that you are a stickler and a pedant. In case you were confused pedantry has nothing to do with the study of feet! (maybe I should explain that, ped=foot in latin)

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This is such a non issue and I am afraid that you are a stickler and a pedant. In case you were confused pedantry has nothing to do with the study of feet! (maybe I should explain that, ped=foot in latin)

 

 

I sympathize entirely with you. I didn't realize that morbus pes pedis intra os was so rampant in your part of the world.

 

I hope you get well soon. Do see a pendantrician. :D

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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I sympathize entirely with you. I didn't realize that morbus pes pedis intra os was so rampant in your part of the world.

 

I hope you get well soon. Do see a pendantrician. :D

(www.)"islamicunityfoundaion"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

 

Right smartass, I have no idea what that means! I thought we had concluded that the point of language was communication not confusion. I have some kind of foot disease in my bones or something?

 

What on earth is a pendantrician? Someone who fixes your necklace? What on earth are you on? Why not try to respond intelligently and answer my points rather than just repeat the same old stuff? After all I am in the accepted view so the onus is on you to convince the rest of the world that it is so important to change the meaning of anti semitism. Seriously go ask anyone (not a muslim lol) and you will be laughed at!

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Right smartass, I have no idea what that means! I thought we had concluded that the point of language was communication not confusion. I have some kind of foot disease in my bones or something?

 

What on earth is a pendantrician? Someone who fixes your necklace? What on earth are you on? Why not try to respond intelligently and answer my points rather than just repeat the same old stuff? After all I am in the accepted view so the onus is on you to convince the rest of the world that it is so important to change the meaning of anti semitism. Seriously go ask anyone (not a muslim lol) and you will be laughed at!

 

You have no idea what that means? I thought you knew Latin! :D

 

My apologies, that was a typo - it should be "pedantrician" - someone who specializes in the disease of pedantricism, also known as "foot in mouth" disease.

 

Have a good laugh! :D

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

Anti-Arab = Anti-Semite

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Okay, Okay! This argument about the meaning of the word "anti-semite" has gone on long enough! Let's get back to the topic at hand, please, as it is much more interesting :D

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Okay, Okay! This argument about the meaning of the word "anti-semite" has gone on long enough! Let's get back to the topic at hand, please, as it is much more interesting :D

 

Hey if we can't agree over the most obvious things then what hope is there that we can agree to live in peace.

 

There is no need for a critical inquiry into the Holocaust, it is established, well document, well researched. It is as true as gravity. If Iran wants to looks into the numbers then go ahead, but the rest of the world would rather not waste it's time going over the same old ground.

{What have we found? The same old fears.}

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About anti-Semitism

 

A letter -from the heart- to my Jewish friends :

People talk with liberty about Muslim extremists, and Christian fundamentalists; but they stop short of uttering the forbidden word "Jewish extremists"

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetichblog.eu/content/view/1190/58/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetichblog.eu/content/view/1190/58/[/url]

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

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