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Lisa Marx

Why

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What abt the rest of them ...full of pr0n ......all of ur arguments are silly

 

WAKEUP U WORSHIP FLESH AND BLOODD...NOT GOD

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PropellerAds

Every objection u raise is answered here

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_thetruereligion(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_thetruereligion(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/[/url]

No more feeding the troll...Bye

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I could refute with the help of Allah every silly argument...but i am busy currently So i will leave u with some videos which explain the whole of it

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videosearch?q=Islam+yusuf+estes&so=0"]Yusuf Explain[/url]

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-995045930719046666&q=Islam+yusuf+estes"]Terrorim vs Islam [/url]

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-5920175252140330826&q=Islam+yusuf+estes"]Women in Islam[/url]

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-1489047104871776788&q=Islam+yusuf+estes"]Priests preachers Ministers accepting Islam[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=4757022845544241963&q=Islam+yusuf+estes"]Jesus and Islam[/url]

 

This is from ur pr0nful bible.. "Enjoy" the material

quote name='Al Faqeer' date='Oct 13 2005, 01:11 PM' post='188530']

GOD MAKES PEOPLE FALL IN ADULTERY

---------------------------------

[Amos 7:16]

God said to Am-a-zi'ah "You say, prophesy not against israel and drop not

your word against the house of Isaac?

Thus the Lord says: YOUR WIFE SHALL BE AN HARLOT in the city and your sons

and your daughters shall fall by the sword."

eir defiled bread among the

gentiles.

 

Then Ezekiel said, "Ah, Lord, God, behold, my soul has not been polluted: for

from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dies of its self,

or is torn in pieces, neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth."

Then God replied and said to him, "Lo, I HAVE GIVEN COW'S DUNG FOR MAN'S DUNG,

and you shall prepare your bread there with."

 

THEY EAT DUNG & DRINK PISS

--------------------------

[2King 18:27]

Rab'-sha-keh said, "Has he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, THAT

THEY MAY EAT THEIR OWN DUNG, AND DRINK THEIR OWN PISS with you."

 

Basically you have disregarded all context and proved that you do not understand what you have written. This is not helping understanding between faiths.

 

Also all that long list of quotes has NO INSTRUCTIONS to do these things ! They are the recorded actions of humans and shows our true nature.

It states the truth of what happened nothing more nothing less.

 

I mean if the Jews wanted it to be pure and holy they could've just edited it all out. But why did they leave them there then ?

 

Real

Edited by Real Truth Seeker

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Basically you have disregarded all context and proved that you do not understand what you have written. This is not helping understanding between faiths.

I say the same to u.....understand that u do the same ..the very same...but now out of nowhere u seem to have consideration..u seem to be a troll...Allah knows best

 

I mean if the Jews wanted it to be pure and holy they could've just edited it all out. But why did they leave them there then ?

Real

Who cares!

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Also all that long list of quotes has NO INSTRUCTIONS to do these things ! They are the recorded actions of humans and shows our true nature.

It states the truth of what happened nothing more nothing less.

 

Real

Absurd!!!!Does violence on TV tell children to be like them ..no but do children do them,even teenagers and men do what they see on TV and what they read

There are lies on the prophets who are supposed to be the rolemodels of mankind

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The Prophet Mohammed urges Muslims to fight in the cause of Allah:

 

"Verily, Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in rows as if they were solid Structures." (Surat As-Saff 61:4)

 

"O prophet Mohammed urge the believers (Muslims) to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast, they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence." (Surat Al-Anfal 8:65)

 

 

Where exactly does it say here to kill anyone who is a non-muslim? It doesnt, and do you see muslims killing anyone who isnt a muslim? Me neither, next time try to think a little before posting anything.

 

The Qur'an commands Muslims not to befriend Jews or Christians:

 

"O ye who believe (Muslims) take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them." (Surat Al-Maidah 5:51)

 

That verse is translated incorrectly. It comes from an arabic word that is very hard to translate in english. The rough translation is protectors or allies. Friends are a differnt story. Im a muslim and I have christian friends, and beleive it or not, a few jewish ones too.

It commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians:

 

"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Surah At-Taubah 9:29)

 

 

 

"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's cause) is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not." (Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216)

your translation of Jihad in the paranthases is wrong. Jihad can mean holy fighitng, but that is just one of the things that falls under the catagory of Jihad. Jihad means a struggle, and im sure you know that, however your ignorance and your self denial ignores it. So anything i do that is a struggle for the good and for the sake of Allah is jihad. For instance, me trying to warship Allah can be considered jihad.

 

and i love how you never replied to my reply to your post, and just jumped to other conclusions and arguments that dont make sense

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I say the same to u.....understand that u do the same ..the very same...but now out of nowhere u seem to have consideration..u seem to be a troll...Allah knows best

Who cares!

 

Yeh right ..... anyway... um I state the truth you have not.

If you look up some comentries about the passages you will find out what it means. But if you do not want to then I can't make you.

Just open your mind a bit and realise that Christians are nice genuine people, it is because of God they do these things and the bible.

 

Do you want to learn about Christainity or not ? You can't really reject something you can't understand can you!

 

The reason i'm here is to make you realise that Islam goes against human rights and human nature. Not trolling, just educating. :D

 

The "Who cares" comment just shows how you are not even willing to look at other possiblities which seems to be a common theme amongst muslims (you know it's wrong, your having trouble justifying your beliefs and your anger is showing in your words. This would not be the case if you had the truth.

 

Real

Edited by Real Truth Seeker

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Absurd!!!!Does violence on TV tell children to be like them ..no but do children do them,even teenagers and men do what they see on TV and what they read

There are lies on the prophets who are supposed to be the rolemodels of mankind

 

 

If you read it in context, maybe even the whole book you will realise the lessons that are taught from these examples. I mean how would you know what action was committed, that was wrong if you don't metion it ?

 

Only uneducated, not forward thinking people would do the things that are shown on TV and it's not everyone it's only a few really !

They show these things because they show the reality of the situation, without you having to go through it !

We learn from our own mistakes and ALSO OTHER PEOPLES mistakes !

 

Real

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:D and Peace!

 

(Lisa, I'm not sure here whether you saw my first reply ^^;:D

 

One thing about Iraq... if it were a Christian country, and Saddam was torturing fellow Christians, I would welcome an Islamic army to come stop it... although I would want Christian leaders to assume control again...

 

Would you also welcome the Islamic army to rape the women, detain and torture innocent people, and basically make a worse mess of things? I do not support Saddam, indeed he was an absolute sadist considering what he did. But I do not support American soldiers coming in and making it worse. I will post an example seperately, as it is too long for one post.

 

 

Now imagine that your brother was taken to a secret prison and tortured to death by Saddam's men, would you still hate the so-called invaders?

 

That's already been done...except Abu Ghraib did not remain secret for long.

 

9/11 was commited by Muslims. What does killing any child have to do with retaliation... as far as I can recall Russians haven't taken over a Chechyn school and slaughtered hundreds of children.

 

Strange that you mentioned Chechnya o.O I was going to comment on that, but I'm going to have to find a source first for the atrocities done there.

 

Despite the efforts, about 2,000 women, young boys and older men marched around the Dome of the Rock shrine on the compound, chanting ``Bin Laden, strike again.''

 

Isn't that freedom of speech? It's not like they're actually physically harming anyone. (*sigh* I support peaceful protests, just so you know...)

 

"O believers, prescribed for you is retaliation, touching the slain; freeman for freeman, slave for slave, female for female . . . In retaliation there is life for you, men possessed of minds; haply you will be god-fearing."

 

Surah2 Verse 178

 

(and the rest...)

 

Why must everyone always quote out of context? I mean, anything can be taken out of context and made to look however. Shall I give to you the peaceful, full length quotes from the Qur'an and Hadith? (and I am quite serious here.)

 

 

I watched the video of does Islam = terrorism... a little long but not bad... however I found this more interesting.

 

Qur'anic Law

Much contradictory information has been circulated over the media regarding what the Qur'an does or doesn't say. And the spin justifying or defending it has been as confusing and contradictory as the book itself. So, to be objective and factual, let's let the Muslim holy book speak for itself:

 

 

One quick Googling, and I find this from an article entitled:

 

Islam's Mohammed: The False Prophet that Deceived the World

Doug Grauman

July 2004

 

 

... I'm having to refrain from rolling my eyes here. Biased, much?

 

I'll post the example, like I mentioned, and also if you care to know, full and conclusional quotes from the Qur'an and Hadith.

 

 

Peace,

 

:D

 

Anya.

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Peace, :D,

 

Example PART ONE

 

 

Here is Fatima's letter as originally published in Arabic by Mafkarat al-Islam and translated to English by Muhammad Abu Nasr of Free Arab Voice.

 

Fatima's Letter

 

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Mercy-giving. "Say He is God the One; God the Source [of everything]; Not has He fathered, nor has He been fathered; nor is anything comparable to Him." [Qur'an, Surat 112 "al-Ikhlas"]

 

I chose this noble Surah from the Book of God because it has the greatest impact on me and on all of you and it strikes a particular kind of awe in the hearts of Believers.

 

My brother Mujahideen in the path of God! What can I say to you? I say to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies of the Qur'an that hung around our necks? God is greatest! Can you not comprehend our situation? Is it true that you do not know what is happening to us? We are your sisters. God will be calling you to account [about this] tomorrow.

 

By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies apart with his overweening lust. And we are the ones who had guarded our virginity out of fear of God. Fear God! Kill us along with them! Destroy us along with them! Don't leave us here to let them get pleasure from raping us! It will be an act to ennoble the Throne of Almighty God. Fear God regarding us! Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

 

I am your sister in God (Fatimah). They raped me on one day more than nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped. Why can't you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls, all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone.

 

They won't let us pray. They took our clothes and won't let us get dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide. She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn't take any more, even though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But I excuse that girl. I have hope that God will forgive her, because He is the Most Merciful of all.

 

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might be at peace. Help! Help! Help! [Wa Mu'atasima!]

 

The following is a short article desricibing the aftermath of events that took place following the letter of our sister Fatimah (may Allah enable her soul to be in the hearts of the green birds of Jannah)

 

:D

 

Peace.

 

(If I could I would bold it all.)

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:D

 

Part Two.

 

Fatimah Martryed In Abu Ghraib Prision In Resistance Attack That Takes Heavy US Toll

Jan 10, 2005

By Muhammad Abu Nasr

 

Resistance forces fired a rocket barrage at the US Abu Ghraib prison camp west of Baghdad. A correspondent for Mafkarat al-Islam in Baghdad said that the attack took place at 1am Friday and that a variety of rockets, including the powerful Ababil and the Grad were used in barrage that lasted more than 15 minutes.

 

The barrage left four Iraqis dead, as well as the Iraqi woman prisoner known as Fatimah whose letter, smuggled out of the prison two weeks ago, sent shock waves around the Muslim world outrages as it disclosed many horrid details of US forces gang raping female prisoners and regularly perpetrating other abuses against the prisoners in the ill-reputed facility. Friday’s barrage also severely wounded another 22-year old Iraqi woman.

 

An Iraqi who works at the Abu Ghraib prison camp told Mafkarat al-Islam that more than 68 US troops were killed in the bombardment as that the rockets specifically struck their barracks. But just one night before the attack, the Americans had moved more than 500 Iraqi prisoners to the east side of the prison, resulting in the death of many of them.

 

Allawi police brought the body of Fatimah to her home in the adh-Dhahab al-Abyad village in the Abu Ghraib area, 45 km east of Fallujah. The correspondent wrote that because of the family’s psychological condition at the time, he was unable to interview them. Their neighbor, however, spoke to the reporter.

 

Fatimah’s eldest brother, who is one of the mujahideen whom the occupation forces are searching for, spoke in the Masjid Thursday at the nighttime prayer said “Praise be to God†with tears in his eyes. Everyone in the Masjid witnessed him saying ‘Oh God take her soul! Oh God this is a shame so please cleanse it! You are the All-Powerful! You are the All-Powerful! You are the All-Powerful!’ Then after the prayer, one of the worshippers came up to him and remonstrated him for saying, ‘Oh God this is a shame so please cleanse it!’ The man told him, ‘Say rather, this is an honor, so raise it up and honor it. It is we about whom the word shame should be used, not Fatimah. She is the most honorable, purest, and cleanest of girls. I (would have) ask(ed) you for her hand in marriage after she gets out of prison, God willing.’â€

 

:D

 

Anya.

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:D

 

Three.

 

The neighbor went on, saying, “Fatimah’s brother and his fighting detachment carried out more than 50 rocket attacks on the prison before and after her letter came out. Every day they would hunt down a car or two belonging to the occupation forces. His name became famous among them in this area, as famous as that of al-Zarqawi.â€

 

The neighbor’s wife told the correspondent, “a month before her arrest Fatimah distributed candy and ‘brides’ fingers’ an famous Iraqi folk delicacy to the people on her street because she finished memorizing 13 of the 30 sections of the Qur’an. She told the women, “after memorizing Surat al-Baqarah, the rest of the Qur’an is easy to memorize. Give me three more months and you’ll see who’s better, me or Shaykh Khalid.’†(Shaykh Khalid is the imam of the Masjid in the neighborhood where Fatimah lives.)

 

The neighbor wife says of Fatimah: “she used to be shy about everything. I remember once she was with the women at a wedding party for one of the local young people, and the other girls all asked her to take off her veil because there weren’t any men around, but she refused to, because she was so shy.â€

 

Fatimah’s funeral took place at 1pm today, Friday, the Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported, to the sound of exultant cries of Allahu akbar! [God is greatest!] and the Muslim creed “there is no god but God!†Fatimah’s brothers and father were not there for the funeral, however, because they are all wanted by the occupation forces, and the Americans surrounded the whole area of funeral – from Fatimah’s home to the cemetery – and kept everyone under close surveillance.

 

The medical report concluded that Fatimah was struck fatally in the head during the bombardment. The blow killed her instantly.

 

At the time the correspondent sent his report at 8:30pm Friday, Mecca time, white flags – the sign of a martyr, were flying over the Fatimah’s house. Local people stayed in the house to receive condolences from mourners on behalf of the family. It was as if Fatimah were saying from her grave to all the mourners:

 

How can you find sweetness when life is bitter?

How can you find pleasure when humanity is enraged?

If your desire is true then everything [else] is insignificant,

And everything on the dust is but dust.

 

Fatimah lies in the al-Karakh Islamic cemetery west of Baghdad. The mourners put a date palm frond on her grave so that she might remain in people’s memory even as the hot daytime sun dries up the palm leaves.

 

:D

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First of all, those who are held in Abu Gharaib were terrorists and should have been executed. Everytime an insurgent is killed it's a good thing. They are the ones killing innocent people (U.S. troops and muslims).

 

Secondly, how do these letters justify a suicide bomber killing many children recieving candy from a U.S. troop. How does this justify a muslim strapping a bomb on himself and blowing up people at a funeral (of other muslims).

 

Thirdly, U.S. troops aren't raping and murdering and looting things, they would be court marshalled.

 

How also does this justify beheading women (and men)? considering that Jill Carrol, a Christian Science journalist is on the front page of every Christian newspaper in existance right now.

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Hi Lisa :D

 

It would appear that, contrary to what you've said, you haven't read any of the Quran; merely cherry-picked verses from an anti-Islam site that quotes the Quran out of context with the intention of portraying Islam in a negative light. This is the same way the media you question cherry-picks the bad things done by Muslims, the things that will garner more attention & viewership, to portray Islam in a negative light.

 

If you use this site to learn about Islam, and how it differs from the actions of Muslims you see portrayed in the media, you will be surprised. It's comparable to learning about the difference of what Jesus (peace be upon him) originally taught and the way 'Christians' (btw did he say his followers were to be called Christians? Or did he say he was only here to preach to the Jews?) behave today :D

 

Regardless, this site has a wealth of resources about Islam & the basics. I'd recommend you work on learning to separate the teachings of Islam from the cultural and behavioral actions done by Muslims that often contradict the very way of life (Islam) they profess to believe in.

 

You will learn that the problems we see today aren't caused by Islam, but by people who are NOT following Islam :D :D

 

Peace,

AS

 

 

 

PS - Welcome to Gawaher =)

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:D

Hi Lisa,

first did you note the sign next to Allah's Slave icon, he's an American convert, does that tell you anything? (also, if you want, you can watch "being Muslim in Texes" where white Americans convert to Islam"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=Islam)

 

I've read your posts and it seems that you're a person that ponders, which is excellent. You being in this forum shows that you're trying to understand; not every American does that....

Now, my best advice (and I've said this before to other members) is to broaden your news/information sources... have you seen my posts titled "I want my Democracy now", also "Why We fight", how about "israel's next war"?

 

It seems to me that you're still young, but I feel that you're in a right direction and I'm confident if you start listening to other media sources, you'll see things clearly...I really recommend you start by reading a book called "the exception to the rulers",

 

You need to get over the political propaganda that's going on in CNN and Fox today before you start learning about Islam as a religion....the propaganda is just blinding you from so many facts and no matter how much you debate with us here, you won't just accept what we say, 'cause you're angry.

 

good and bad exists in the muslim world, because muslims are HUMANS just like Americans are, they do mistakes like anybody else...but you cann't just attack Islam because of Human's actions + you need to know that the media works for a government that want to profit from wars, it's simply business for them....."Why we fight" is in theaters now...ohhh you gotta watch it, it's crazy..so many facts....

 

see, our government wants us to look at things in a very simplified way. Real life is more complex than this.

 

Take care

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Just open your mind a bit and realise that Christians are nice genuine people, it is because of God they do these things and the bible.

I never stated otherwise ...

Do you want to learn about Christainity or not ? You can't really reject something you can't understand can you!

No this is an Islamic Forum..Iam here to propogate Islam to non-muslims....I have researched the christian dogma enough

The reason i'm here is to make you realise that Islam goes against human rights and human nature. Not trolling, just educating. :D

Care to give proof ?

The "Who cares" comment just shows how you are not even willing to look at other possiblities which seems to be a common theme amongst muslims (you know it's wrong, your having trouble justifying your beliefs and your anger is showing in your words. This would not be the case if you had the truth.

 

Real

I have no trouble..rather its u..what happ to this thread.

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25651"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25651[/url] ..No replies ..why not

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If you read it in context, maybe even the whole book you will realise the lessons that are taught from these examples. I mean how would you know what action was committed, that was wrong if you don't metion it ?

Hi

What Moral lesson can i learn from incest and sexually explicit descriptions of women?

I have no more time to waste with u ..there is so much info on this site for Non-muslims

u can read it if u want...The call of Islamic Monotheism has reached you and Allah is witness ...u can accept or reject ..if u want to preach ur religion then this is not the place to do so .

Bye

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Yeh right ..... anyway... um I state the truth you have not.

If you look up some comentries about the passages you will find out what it means. But if you do not want to then I can't make you.

Just open your mind a bit and realise that Christians are nice genuine people, it is because of God they do these things and the bible.

 

Do you want to learn about Christainity or not ? You can't really reject something you can't understand can you!

 

The reason i'm here is to make you realise that Islam goes against human rights and human nature. Not trolling, just educating. :D

Real

 

1: the only people who havent spoken the truth are the non-muslims that say Islam is a bad religion and a terrorist religion

 

2: Christians are nice and genuine people, my mind is open about them, i dont have anything against them, but thats not the purpose of this forum like someone else said, you guys are here so we can educate you about Islam

 

3: Islam does not go agaisnt human rights or human nature. Go ahead, bring me some solid proof, why dont you start another thread, just to make thinks more organized. Trust me, i just joined a few days ago, and ive seen many threads about how people try to do the same thing, and they start the thread, and once someone replies, they never come back

 

check out the "unholy quotes from the quran" thread, who was actually started by a preacher/priest

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First of all, those who are held in Abu Gharaib were terrorists and should have been executed. Everytime an insurgent is killed it's a good thing. They are the ones killing innocent people (U.S. troops and muslims).

 

Secondly, how do these letters justify a suicide bomber killing many children recieving candy from a U.S. troop. How does this justify a muslim strapping a bomb on himself and blowing up people at a funeral (of other muslims).

 

Thirdly, U.S. troops aren't raping and murdering and looting things, they would be court marshalled.

 

How also does this justify beheading women (and men)? considering that Jill Carrol, a Christian Science journalist is on the front page of every Christian newspaper in existance right now.

 

:D

 

Lisa,

 

How can you say that all those held in Abu Ghraib were/are terrorists?! Was Fatimah, was she a terrorist? What was her crime, being a modest, covered Muslimah? (female Muslim)

 

And the insurgents would not exist if the U.S. troops weren't there in the first place. Lemme ask ya, did they find the WMDs?

 

How does that letter...what? I said I would post an example of what U.S. soldiers are doing in Iraq. I never said that this would justify anything, let alone murder. I wanted to show that they're not always throwing candy to children and sprinkling fairy dust.

 

FYI, do you know that a soldier was actually court-marshalled? But that was one, and that was only after the tortures in Abu Ghraib were leaked out to the public. What about the rest? And as for the U.S. army not raping/murdering (never did I mention looting, but I don't put anything past them)...there were rapes inside the army, not just the poor Iraqi women. Female army personnel were raped as well.

 

Look, Lisa, I'm sorry if I sounded rude or angry. If you would like, as I wrote before in my previous posts, any more information about peaceful and nice quotes from the Qur'an/Hadith, I would love to help. Just send me a quick PM :D Please try to research some more, and don't go by negative, anti-Islamic sites if you really want the truth.

 

Hoping you'll find the truth,

 

Anya.

 

:D

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:D

 

and LIKE 3D. the same goes for you lisa.

 

you are a TROLL.

 

:D

seriously..what's with the troll thing?

 

I think that Anya's response was adequate.

hate crimes have been going on b4 the times of christians, jews & muslims.

The ultimate cause are people, just like guns don't kill... people do.

People need a motive to divide and conquer, fear what they don't understand and oppose alternate views.Whether it's based on a flag or God, such people exist and will find a motive for their mischiefs.You can judge people by actions but don't judge actions by teachings.

History of U.S is full of Native -American OnSlaught for gold, or land.patriotism, isn't that based on similar justification?

Neverthless the correlations you made although seem logical, they are premature and lack careful ananlysis which yield such hypothesis or results.

Hope this clarifies.

Peace

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Salaam,

 

1. Neither Muslims nor Christians who do bad things are representitives of their religion

 

but

 

2. Isn't the problem that some verses in the Quran can be read in such a way as to permit or encourage things such as terrorism?

 

This probably need clarification! I'm not saying that the verses absolutely do say 'suicide bombers will go to heaven', I am saying that it is impossible to interpret them in that way and that is a problem.

 

The vast majority of Muslims seem to be tackling this problem by condeming the actions but that still leaves a violent minority who are able to justify their actions to themselves (and sometimes to others) using the Quran. Look at the words of Abu Hamza 'it is ok to kill the kuffar (sp? non-muslim) whereever, for any reason'. Now most Muslims condemn him, but unfortunately he was in a position of religious authority and backed up his words by carfully selected quotes.

 

Because Islam (as noted on another part of the board) was a religion which in its early years experienced violent conflict (the wars Mohammed waged) there are verses in Islamic literature reflecting that. It is unfortunate that it is those verses which are used to justify terrorism today.

 

Now, before someone leaps up and starts talking about the crusades or any other historical event that was over 60 years ago let us remember that age old undergraduate history question 'to what extent were the religious war of europe based in religion?', now technically this only applies to 1500-1800 but it is eqully valid for the crusades. The answer, throughout the ages, seems to be that when someone commits violence and justifies it with religion it is invariably politics which is the real motivation.

 

 

From the Quran and the OT it is possible to pull out verses saying 'kill them', unfortunately this ignores the other verses saying 'turn the other cheek', 'feed them', 'give them charity'.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Salaam,

 

1. Neither Muslims nor Christians who do bad things are representitives of their religion

 

but

 

2. Isn't the problem that some verses in the Quran can be read in such a way as to permit or encourage things such as terrorism?

 

This probably need clarification! I'm not saying that the verses absolutely do say 'suicide bombers will go to heaven', I am saying that it is impossible to interpret them in that way and that is a problem.

 

I can't deny the fact that the teachings can be misinterpreted that's because they are vague.

But same goes for all religions, why single out Islam then.

 

 

Look at the words of Abu Hamza 'it is ok to kill the kuffar (sp? non-muslim) whereever, for any reason'. Now most Muslims condemn him, but unfortunately he was in a position of religious authority and backed up his words by carfully selected quotes.

Islam is defined by Quran and hadith.

Abu Harera is none of the two,take him for what it's worth.

 

What am I saying then?

Perhaps that "Religion" is like fire, it can cook you food and keep you warm but it can also burn down cities."

Because Islam (as noted on another part of the board) was a religion which in its early years experienced violent conflict (the wars Mohammed waged) there are verses in Islamic literature reflecting that. It is unfortunate that it is those verses which are used to justify terrorism today.

You must admit that in today's advance society, there are people so narrow minded that you can't get through to them no matter what. In the old times then you can only imagine, It's hard to reason with someone who's ready to crack your skull open. Ofcource that doesn't apply in today's society ( not to that extent). The context must not be overlooked.

 

Also, eyes see what mind want them to.If you are trying to prove a certain point, then you are bound to overlook some key details.

Let me identify 2 approaches.

1.you seek the truth, which means you postpone judgment until all data has been gathered and analysed

2.You already know (or believe you do) the truth and are just getting data to support your point.

 

Which one would you identify with?

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:D

 

 

What am I saying then?

Perhaps that "Religion" is like fire, it can cook you food and keep you warm but it can also burn down cities."

 

llogical. the most profound statement ive read on this forum so far. and yes, i agree. :D

 

its like this forum really. it is nourishing and warm, but dot runs around putting out the fires! :D

 

 

 

 

 

:D

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:D

llogical. the most profound statement ive read on this forum so far. and yes, i agree. :D

 

its like this forum really. it is nourishing and warm, but dot runs around putting out the fires! :D

:D

Garcias :D

Where are the refuters? (sorry, i just think it's a cool word)

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