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3dshocker

I Have Officially Declared War On Muslims

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Hahah...why dint u quote the hadith in full...since u accept this part that u think u are right..lets examine the whole hadith

When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things which nobody knows except a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle" Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said, "The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah." 'Abdullah bin Salam further said, "O Allah's Apostle! The Jews are liars, and if they should come to know about my conversion to Islam before you ask them (about me), they would tell a lie about me." The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and 'Abdullah went inside the house. Allah's Apostle asked (the Jews), "What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam amongst you?" They replied, "He is the most learned person amongst us, and the best amongst us, and the son of the best amongst us." Allah's Apostle said, "What do you think if he embraces Islam (will you do as he does)?" The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him.

Resemblance means in sex

 

 

and this hadith explains the above

Edited by al-malabari

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Thauban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: "While I was standing beside the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one of the rabbis of the Jews came and said: Peace be upon you, O Muhammad. I pushed him back with a push that he was going to fall. Upon this he said: Why do you push me? I said: Why don't you say: O Messenger of Allah? The Jew said: We call him by the name by which he was named by his family. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: My name is Muhammad with which I was named by my family. The Jew said: I have come to ask you (something). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Should that thing be of any benefit to you, if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I will lend my ears to it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew a line with the help of the stick that he had with him and then said: Ask (whatever you like). Thereupon the Jew said: Where would the human beings be on the Day when the earth would change into another earth and the heavens too (would change into other heavens)? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: They would be in darkness beside the Bridge. He (the Jew) again said: Who amongst people would be the first to cross (this bridge).? He said: They would be the poor amongst the refugees. The Jew said: What would constitute their breakfast when they would enter Paradise? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: A caul of the fish-liver. He (the Jew) said. What would be their food alter this? He (the Holy Prophet) said: A bullock which was fed in the different quarters of Paradise would be slaughtered for them. He (the Jew) said: What would be their drink? He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would be given drink from the fountain which is named" Salsabil". He (the Jew) said: I have come to ask you about a thing which no one amongst the people on the earth knows except an apostle or one or two men besides him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Would it benefit you if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I would lend ears to that. He then said: I have come to ask you about the child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance prevails upon the female's substance , it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah. The Jew said: What you have said is true; verily you are an Apostle. He then returned and went away. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: He asked me about such and such things of which I have had no knowledge till Allah gave me that. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number

0614)"

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chess isnt necessarily unlawful. i could go into detail but i think thats all i need to say

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Salamu Alaikum,

 

Islam is the only religon that says that civilization and religon should be coexist. In christianity religon is for sundays, and running the country has nothing to do religon. In Islam, we are given a way of life, a complete manual for 60-100 years of life. The Prophet's reign was a most prosperous time for both muslims and non-muslims. The Prophet(PBUH) used his reign to spread the call of Islam, his major victories were not on the battlefield, but in the heart's of men. The non-believers could practise their religon freely, and they were under the protection of the Muslims, and all they had to do is pay a small tax. They didn't pay anything else. The muslims would wage a war if these people were in danger because they had a covenant with the muslims, and they became allied.

 

The World has become a most toxic place, because religon is kept on the shelf. Leaders all over the world follow their own desires and pleasures, they make laws that suit there lifestyles. I ask you, if someone raped your mom what would you do to him? (non-believers) if a men killed your children what would you do to him? Islam ensures the protection of the Victims and the supression of the criminals. Islam allows all other religons to flourish and do as they please.

 

I mean WTF ?? These are pretty stupid beliefs you have to admit ?

He also shook violently on the floor and drooled and frothed at the mouth when he received a revelation.

Sounds like epilepsy (having a fit)

 

Not stupid at all, and brother Al-Malabari has made it quiet clear why. as for the last one, you obvioulsy have no knowledge of sexual reproduction, no idea of the X and Y chromosome, which the 23rd pair of your genetics, which determines your sex. If the women climaxes first then you will have the last pair be XX because her chromosome becomes dominant but if the man does then it becomes XY because his becomes dominant. This "stupid belief" is called science.

 

Don't have such a negative perspective of Islam, dig deeper than these hadith and look into the true essence of our religon, look into its teachings of morales and principles but most of all look through your desires, you don't want to follow Islam not because of its deep logi but because you don't want to have a life of submission. You say you believe in God, but who is your god?

 

Salamu Alaikum

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hes arrogant, stupid, and in denial. Basically, he cant take it that what we are telling him cannot be argued about, so he tries to dig up more things, and those things are just answered, and it goes on. if you look carefully, he rarely ever answers to us, he just keeps posting new things, why, because he cant respond! he is sealing his heart off from the mercy of Islam

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Salamu Alaikum,

 

Dear Brother,there is no need to insult him, yes he dosen't answer our posts, nor does prove any logic, but there is no complusion in religon, a soul may take many years to find the truth. We must be patient with him. His posts do not shake our faith, because they are false allegations, it is just him trying to bring us down because he doesn't want the religon. Everybody on the inside wants to find peace, but its hidden under layers of deciet and lies and desires. Maybe one day Allah will guide him, until then, we will continue to show him the light.

 

Salamu Alaikum

Edited by alim_in_training

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:D

 

Muhamad once heard a tree crying, so he hugged it and it stopped crying.

 

I heard this story explained by Amr Khaled. What happened the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) had rested his hand on a palm tree while giving the Friday lecture (khutbah) before the prayer. When he took his hand off everyone heard a horrible screaming, and no one knew what it was. They realised the tree was crying out of its love for the Prophet, and he (the Prophet) put his hand on the tree's branch and it rested its branch on him and it stopped crying.

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Salamu Alaikum,

 

I heard that before the Prophet (PBUH) had the minbar he would always lean against that tree while giving the khutba, then when they made the minbar he had stopped leaning on teh tree so then they heard the sound of screaming and it was the tree and then he hugged it and it stopped.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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Read this whole post and not just part of it people, I'm trying to make a serious set of points.

 

Wow, it seems like you guys are killing this thread. This is not about making accusations at the Korhan (sp?) and defending the Korhan nor about muhammad and epileptic stuff. This thread has nothing to do with how peaceful or barbaric Islam or christianity is. This thread is about a much bigger topic and I'd appreciate an intellectual debate of sorts instead of constantly attacking eachother.

 

I've come to realize that my intial post seemed like it was calling for genocide :D

 

I wanna say I'm sorry to anyone who saw my inital post as a death threat to muslims B)

 

This thread is not one of those threads where one person calls death to Islam and the other calls death to the west. This is not a physical war that I'm getting at. My initial post is aimed at pointing out the reality that the world is currently in a massive political war.

 

A war of two ideologies - two ways of life whom in my eyes cannot co-exist :D

 

In one corner we have freedom and democracy :D

 

That is rule by the people with man made laws. This is the society that overthrew the heirarchical system of monarchies and religion. The critical part of such a society being that everyone wants to be free to pursue their own ventures. The absolute limits we place on freedom is to protect ourselves from physical harm. As for children we tag on protecting them from emotional harm. NOTHING ELSE IS PROTECTED FROM FREEDOM. Though this is not absolute freedom, it's pretty damn close with only 3 complete restrictions.

 

This means call a 6 year girl a slut and you may be penalized, but call a grown woman a slut and if she takes the case to court then it will most likely be thrown out as nonsense. These are the only limitations to freedom in what we in the west would see as an ideal free society. These limits on freedom are agreed upon by the people thus restricting their freedom in one manner regarding other adults and in two manners regarding children. ***Notice how the west isn't an ideal free society nor is it exactly like what I described but it is what we strive for

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In the other corner we have religion and dictatorship (by god :D )

 

This is rule by god and people living by the laws set out by god. This is the society governed by a strict code on how to operate as individuals and a successful society. Religion by the authority of god dictates most of our lives. The freedom within religion is the freedom to do as you please so long as you do not conflict with how religion says you must live your life. Since religion dictates most of our lives it also dictates absolute forms of right, wrong and justice. All once again defined by god. By the way I'm taking religion here as the metaphorical manual on how to live and God as the person/thing/being that wrote it. Though this is not absolute constraint it is pretty damn close relative to absolute freedom.

 

The two sets of ideologies on how to run a society are very very close to being opposites. Though its not absolute freedom versus absolute constraint, this is freedom with minimal limitations versus freedom with maximal (relatively) limitations. Since religion encompasses a wide range of rules and code, this can also be viewed as freedom from religious constraint versus religious constraint.

 

The free society is able to live as a multicultural society with people of different relgious backgrounds because the moment one operates freely they have abondoned gods manual on how to operate. I have hindu friends who eat beef, muslim friends who eat pepporni pizza and pork ribs, christian friends who support gay rights and make fun of jesus, and sihk (sp?) friends who shave. These people do not allow religion to influence their lives on any matter where they think differently. That is their personal beliefs have overriden the beliefs bestowed upon them by religion and god.

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As you can see you can't have it both ways. It's either rule by god or rule by men (and women, I didn't forget ya :D ). You cannot have both, one must oppress the other :D . You either live how the good book (just pick a book) tells you with minimal personal choice or live how ever you want with minimal religious influence. That is one ideology must oppress the other.

 

In the war of ideologies in the west and europe, free society became the victor and the authority of religion and god to dictate lives from the medieval ages was thrown out the window (which I am glad for :D ). Die hard muslims of the middle east still live in the age of authority by religion and god. btw, one must recognize that the war is still going on all over the world and not just in the middle east *looks at india :D *.

 

The war between freedom and democracy vs religion and dictatorship (almost respective opposites) continues and it will be a bloody war. This is not a death threat, this is me informing everyone of what I see as the reality. Personally I'm lobbying for the free society :D .

 

P.S. dictatorship through out this entire post has nothing to do with humans. If this post has a tone that anti-religious its because I'm an atheist - can't really help it there.

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Salamu Alaikum,

 

Peace 3D,

 

The war between freedom and democracy vs religion and dictationship eh? Where does Islam fit in? Islam is a democracy and based on freedom but it is also a religion...

 

Salamu Alaikum

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From what I've heard Islam is basically submitting to the will of god. Democracy is about rule by the people. Religion - Islam being one - is generally about rule by god. An Islamic way of life cannot be a democractic way of life as democracy is intertwined with freedom as Islam is intertwined with god.

 

Debate stuff I found on the subject, Highly encourage you to skim over it :D

(www.)"http://benadorassociates####/article/4462"]benadorassociates#

####/article/4462[/url]

 

where does Islam fit in? Islam is religion telling us how we should live our lives with the authority of the rules being god. Hence it is religion and dictatorship combo.

 

P.S. Incase you're wondering there's no insult implied to the term dictator here

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:D

 

 

 

From what I've heard Islam is basically submitting to the will of god. Democracy is about rule by the people. Religion - Islam being one - is generally about rule by god. An Islamic way of life cannot be a democractic way of life as democracy is intertwined with freedom as Islam is intertwined with god.

 

 

the people voted for gore....and ended up with bush.... hows that democracy or rule by the people?

 

:D

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Salamu Alaikum,

 

tsk tsk tsk, 3Dshocker, you cease to understand civilizational rules and personal rules. an Ummah is made up of people who Submit to Allah. You, yourself Submit to Allah and obey His commands, you do what He tells you to do, and you stay away from what He tells you to stay away from. But as a civilization, we have a leader who is appointed by the people, who does not claim to be appointed by Allah, nor is he a dictator.

 

People can do whatever they want except, Kill, steal, rape or whatever, but they also have their own rules they follow within themselves. In a civilization it's mostly about interactions with people and with with your personal submission it's about perfecting yourself. We have different laws yes, but they are divine, and they ensure the safety of the people and the extermination of the criminals. Allah does not change a people until they change what is in themselves. When the people stop following false desires and whatever then they become a better people. Basically the message is it starts with you.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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Peace 3dshocker

 

First, thanks for the apology that you made here:

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25747"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25747[/url]

 

Now thats a good ground to start a civil discussion.

Regarding western democracy, it is proven, both by historical events and academic comparisons, that the level of democracy that Islam estabilshes is far more perfect than the western version of democracy. But first, lets state this fact:

* There is no living example of Islamic democracy in the Islamic world today.

 

That said, lets examin the democracy of the west, and compare it to what Islam wants for us.

  • your democracy serves well the interests of the people of any given country. Islamic democracy, on the other hand serves the interests of all people, anywhere in the world, regardless of faith, race, sex or color. There are countless events that shows that your model of democracy is selfish, and greedy. Imperialism and colonization of the world was led by the best western democracy: the UK. Crimes of mass destruction is made every day in the most democratic country in the middle east: israel. Thats not democracy. If you're fair and just to all people, not just 'your' own people, then you'd admit the failure of the western democracy.
  • Your democracy is full of holes. Politicians can be bought and sold. Money governs who rules, and legislations decissions are made according to the interests of the more powerful among the lobbies, not in accordance with the interests of the street man.
  • Your democracy allowed the homeless and the needy to fill the streets, while your politicians used your hard earned money and the lives of your loved ones to fight movie-like wars. Islamic democracy makes sure everyone get their meal and degnity.
  • your democracy gave birth to biased media that feeds you whatever the zionists want you to believe. Movies, tv, newspapers, you name it

Please do not judge something you have no correct knowledge of. If what you know about Islam is what you see in your tv, or even the miserable way Muslims live today, under dicatators who work as agents to the US, and who get picked and installed by the US, then you mis-judged Islam.

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alim, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, can you summarize all that and its relevancy to my point of freedom+democracy vs religion+god in a few sentences?

 

dot, I think we differ on what democracy means. I ran up a series of definitions here on dictionary

 

Democracy:

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

2. A political or social unit that has such a government.

3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.

4. Majority rule.

5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

 

Islam:

A monotheistic religion characterized by the acceptance of the doctrine of submission to God and to Muhammad as the chief and last prophet of God.

 

Religion:

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

3. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

4. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

5. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

6. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

 

 

By the definitions themselves it is not possible to have religious democracy. For Islam like all other religions uses teachings of god as the source of justice, politics, and morals. Democracy uses what the people themselves believe as the source of justice, politics and morals. Hence the traditional description of rule by the majority of people gives way to man made laws instead of god made laws.

 

Do you see why I find the term Islamic Democracy or any other religious democracy an oxymoron? I cannot make sense of your comment that Islam can establish a level democracy when to do so would mean to not submit to god but to ones own desires. (This and the paragraph above is what I'm trying to discuss - lets stick with this, other stuff just pm me)

 

About your attacks on western democracy - which I remind you I do not want this to turn into a debate of whether the west or the east is better - I live in canada and I assure you it is one of the best places to live in for people anywhere in the world, regardless of faith, race, sex or color - and no I'm not white.

 

considering that ppl live only in countries and not in the sea these two statements say the same thing.

"serves well the interests of the people of any given country"

"serves the interests of all people, anywhere in the world, regardless of faith, race, sex or color"

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anywho, moving on - I remind you that I said the west is not the perfect example of free democractic society but it is the closest thing you could find in the modern world --> the system works better then other stuff around the world :D ------> yet the same system also has its draw backs.

 

The political corruption and biased media have nothing to do with out democractic society. As I told you it is very close to being perfect considering the power that the people have. Abuse of power is not tolerated and we constantly have investigations into abuse of power. We just had a massive investigation recently in canada and the liberal party got chucked out of office. About the biased media you speak of, we have biased media indeed but we have both extremes. You will always find media that takes one side as well as media that takes the other side - such is the product of a freely operational society.

 

Everything (and I depending on what it is) you see wrong in the west is caused by Capitalism which is something free society gave birth to. "Everyone is free to pursue their own venture and reap the benefits!!"--->"Everyone is in competition with eachother". The double edged sword of capitalism leads to monopolies and the "power of money" yet society here is allowed to pursue power and money as it within their freedom to do so. The society here is about constant competition, we do have a welfar net for unfortunate people, and every person who has hit rock bottom in our society always has the devices to rise up available to them. In our free society we believe in reaching out to those less fortunate. FYI We have extended it several times to the middle east as well, the good ol red cross :D

 

P.S. As a free thinkers we do not believe everything we see on the media. Contrary to what you may have been told the majority of canadians, americans and europeans do not dub all muslims as terrorists - we know better.

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Guess Islam isn't a democracy then..phew.

 

Salamu Alaikum

Is that agreement with me or sarcasm? :D

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You talk of Muslims being oppressed, however this is wrong. Muslims first started a Jihad on Christians. If you read history, the Ottomon Turks new emperor was forced to take over new land, which meant killing and raping of Christians, so Christians responded, and ever since there has been animosity. That and the fact that Islam stole and perverted the true Word of God.
Islam's history begins before the Ottoman's lisa,

 

and Christendom declared "Holy War" on Islam during the crusades.

The words Holy War were first introduced by Pope Urban, so that term is a Christian term, not a Muslim one...

 

Muslim's didn't pervert Christianity, You have your clergy to thank for that...

 

God's word's in the Qur'an that were revealed to The Prophet Muhammed, is presreved & protected and shall remain so until the end of time Insha Allah :D

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3Dshocker, Islam isnt a system of government

 

and furthermore, when man was created, he had no knowledge. and he(adam) got all his knowledge from Allah. Where do you think the basic laws that run our society come from? THe basic laws such as dont kill, dont steal.. etc etc? these all come from religion! if man was just put on earth without any guidance or laws, we wouldnt have a civilized earth, it would be jsut like animals who will kill each other for food, however religion was reveiled to us and thats where we get all our basics from, and yet you say religion is wrong, subhanallah

 

and, and good reply thezman! indeed, Islam begins b4 the ottoman empire! lol

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oi! zman and the guy arguing with him/her! knock it off, this debate is not about christianity vs Islam! I mean, atleast respond to the topic at hand man.

 

Anywho, xsperf I never said Islam is a system of government. I said it is a religion and like all religions it dictates how life should be lived.

 

You jumped through a series of assumptions on your paragraph. As an atheist I inherently deny the notion that man was created, that he got all his knowledge from god and further more I do not aknowledge the existence of a creator at all.

 

Do you see the problem here? Your'e discussing origins of things. WRONG THREAD.

 

stick to the topic pls ^_^

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