Jump to content
Islamic Forum
Sign in to follow this  
omaryacine

Some Scientific Truths Of Koran

Recommended Posts

I'm sorry if I was disrespectful. I didn't intend to be. As a non-Muslim I can believe that Mohammed received messages from Allah (if I did, I'd be a Muslim), and as a non-believer in the supernatural I can't believe that gods exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

Hi packman, I'm sorry if you thought that I said all that in my post to you, NO, actually it was a generalisation, so please do not take it personally. I meant it to be a reminder to everyone including myself. We tend to forget in our emotions that we might be trying to prove something and in the process hurt someone's feelings..

 

 

Please do continue with your post.

Take care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
######, I've agreed that a supernatural being could have caused the Big Bang. We will probably never know. Everything in the universe was 'created' at the Big bang, apparently (and I'm going to believe scientists on this). Everything that has happened since the Big Bang has happened according to natural processes. Since the Big Bang there has been no evidence of any supernatural activity in the universe, so it's sensible to assume that there is none.

 

Please define natural processes. Can you explain the mechanism of natural processes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all

 

Maybe this should be removed from the list?

 

sourate Ettalaq ( the repudiation verse 12 )

 

"Allah created seven skies and he did the same for Earth.."

 

the Only God knows about the skies but concerning the seven Earths I think that it might be the seven layers of the atmosphere that surrounded the Earth to protect it from meteors and from sun and cosmic radiations.

 

(the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, ozone layer, ionosphere and the exosphere

are the seven layers.

 

In reference to post 8 in the "Must Every Intention Or Action Be Either Good Or Bad?" thread?

 

heres the quote...

 

I would have to agree with brother ahamed that this thread is not about science in the Qur'an. For the record however, it is clear that God is not referring to the 7 levels of the earth's atmosphere as is made clear by the following verses:

 

41:12

Then He completed and finished from their creation (as) seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils). Such is the Decree of Him the All-Mighty, the All-Knower.

 

37:6

Verily! We have adorned the near heaven with the stars (for beauty).

 

What we call 'everything', our entire universe...is in fact only the first level of heaven in the kingdom of God. We live in the first level of heaven right now. But there are 6 levels of heaven above this one. On the Day of Judgement, the earth we live in and our entire known universe, the first level of heaven, will be transformed into another heaven...as God sees fit...as a home for the True Believers.

 

14:48

One Day - when the earth is turned into another earth, the heavens into another heaven - and people all appear before God, the One, the Overpowering...

 

Peace all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please define natural processes. Can you explain the mechanism of natural processes?

 

Roughly (and I'm sure that a better definition has been given by scientists) natural processes are - in this context - things that happen through the process of cause and effect. Eg, If you apply heat to ice it melts. That's a natual process.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by 'mechanism', but if you're asking if we (humans) can show the chains of cause and effect, yes we can for a great many things and there's no reason that we won't eventually be able to for almost everything. Two possible exceptions are events prior to the Big Bang and some aspects of psychology (our minds might never be able to fully understand our minds because they must study the mind using the mind).

 

On the other hand, there hasn't been a single event since the Big Bang that can be shown to have been caused by a supernatural being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on cause and effect, what did cause the formation of universe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've already sad this. As far back as we can go, it was a result of the Big Bang. What caused the BB we don't know and perhaps can never know. As I've said, if you want to think that ithe BB was caused by a supernatural being, go ahead. but that (or any other) supernatural being hasn't had anything to do with the universe since the BB began.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you don't know what caused the BB to happen. Now tell me what caused the earth to be located in an orbit so that the distance of the earth from the sun would ensure that all living things can live and thrive well while we could hardly find any living things in other planets in the Solar system? What would happen if the earth is nearer to or further from the suns? Who did put the earth in the correct orbit so that living things can live well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So you don't know what caused the BB to happen. Now tell me what caused the earth to be located in an orbit so that the distance of the earth from the sun would ensure that all living things can live and thrive well while we could hardly find any living things in other planets in the Solar system? What would happen if the earth is nearer to or further from the suns? Who did put the earth in the correct orbit so that living things can live well?

 

The answer is truly easy:

Its all a big, fat coincidence! [/sarcasm]

Edited by Luqman1984

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So you don't know what caused the BB to happen. Now tell me what caused the earth to be located in an orbit so that the distance of the earth from the sun would ensure that all living things can live and thrive well while we could hardly find any living things in other planets in the Solar system? What would happen if the earth is nearer to or further from the suns? Who did put the earth in the correct orbit so that living things can live well?

 

 

Well, if we find evidence of there having been life on Mars, which we might, your argument vanishes.

 

The universe is a very great deal larger than the solar system. Given the number of planets in the universe it isn't surprising that one of them had the conditions where life could form. (It's pretty likely that there are others.) Just a lucky chance.

 

edit - The 'lucky chance' is just from our perspective. There isn't anything intrinsically special about life - although from our point of view it's pretty good. On every single planet in the universe, the conditions are unique because each planet's location and composition are unique. On some of them the conditions might mean that life may form, on others different unique events happen. It's just cause and effect.

 

Your argument is backwards - you're arguing that because a planet allows certain chemical/physical reactions to happen it must have been "placed" and "created" in a certain way. Whereas it's the other way around - because a planet has a particular location and composition, certain chemical and physical events can occur. The exact same thing applies to every planet in the universe. And every thing in the universe. Cause and effect.

Edited by packham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if we find evidence of there having been life on Mars, which we might, your argument vanishes.

 

So far you could hardly find any living things on Mars. If you find any living things on Mars, my argument is still applicable.

 

The universe is a very great deal larger than the solar system. Given the number of planets in the universe it isn't surprising that one of them had the conditions where life could form. (It's pretty likely that there are others.) Just a lucky chance. edit - The 'lucky chance' is just from our perspective. There isn't anything intrinsically special about life - although from our point of view it's pretty good. On every single planet in the universe, the conditions are unique because each planet's location and composition are unique. On some of them the conditions might mean that life may form, on others different unique events happen. It's just cause and effect.

 

We are talking about the Solar system. Please tell me what or who caused the earth to be in the right orbit so that it can support all living things? If you claim that it is just a lucky chance, you are equating science to a poker game and you are making a mockery of science.

 

Earth (1 AU) is the largest and densest of the inner planets, the only one known to have current geological activity, and the only planet known to have life. Its liquid hydrosphere is unique among the terrestrial planets, and it is also the only planet where plate tectonics has been observed. Earth's atmosphere is radically different from those of the other planets, having been altered by the presence of life to contain 21% free oxygen. What or who cause Earth to be a unique planet that support living things?

 

Why do we not find any living things on the moon even though it is near Earth? What or who cause the earth to have only one moon while other planets have different number of moons?

 

What or who cause the planets to orbit the sun in harmony? What or who cause that the planets not crash into one another?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So far you could hardly find any living things on Mars. If you find any living things on Mars, my argument is still applicable.

 

Yes, you would argue that Mars is in exaxctly the right place - which of course it would be. Everything in the universe is in exactly the place it is (except sub-atomic particles, of course) but that doesn't actually say anything important. Of course everything is in the place it is.

 

We are talking about the Solar system. Please tell me what or who caused the earth to be in the right orbit so that it can support all living things? If you claim that it is just a lucky chance, you are equating science to a poker game and you are making a mockery of science.

 

No, we're talking about the whole universe - unless you're saying that a god only created the solar system and not the rest of the universe.

 

There's nothing "right" about the earth's orbit and composition, it's just what it is. Being what and where it is, a certain set of chemical and physical events were possible on earth. The same thing applies to every other planet (every other piece of matter, in fact) in the universe.

 

You're making the argument that the evolution of humans is an important thing as far as the universe is concerned. It is very important for us (duh!) but as far as the universe is concerned we're just another bunch of chemical and physical events. You could equally argue that Uranus is exactly the right distance from the sun for amazing methane storms (or whatever happens on Uranus) to occur.

 

Earth (1 AU) is the largest and densest of the inner planets, the only one known to have current geological activity, and the only planet known to have life. Its liquid hydrosphere is unique among the terrestrial planets, and it is also the only planet where plate tectonics has been observed. Earth's atmosphere is radically different from those of the other planets, having been altered by the presence of life to contain 21% free oxygen. What or who cause Earth to be a unique planet that support living things?

 

No one. And it is no more "unique' than any other planet or bit of matter. Everything has unique characteristics.

 

Why do we not find any living things on the moon even though it is near Earth? What or who cause the earth to have only one moon while other planets have different number of moons?

 

Just random chance.

 

What or who cause the planets to orbit the sun in harmony? What or who cause that the planets not crash into one another?

 

The simple laws of physics. Planets have collided with other things, of course - the asteroid belt is thought to be the remains of a destroyed planet (I think) and our own moon is thought to be a piece of the early earth that was blasted away by the impact of an asteroid (I think). It's possible that the earth will again be devastated by an asteroid orbiting the sun at immense distances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, you would argue that Mars is in exaxctly the right place - which of course it would be. Everything in the universe is in exactly the place it is (except sub-atomic particles, of course) but that doesn't actually say anything important. Of course everything is in the place it is.

 

We know Earth supports living things. On the contrary, you could hardly find any living things on Venus and Mars even though they are nearer to Earth so what or who cause this contradiction?

 

No, we're talking about the whole universe - unless you're saying that a god only created the solar system and not the rest of the universe.

 

I am sure that God is the CREATOR Who had created the universe but you atheists still don't know what or who cause the formation of the universe.

 

There's nothing "right" about the earth's orbit and composition, it's just what it is. Being what and where it is, a certain set of chemical and physical events were possible on earth. The same thing applies to every other planet (every other piece of matter, in fact) in the universe.

 

So what or who cause Earth to support living things while you could hardly find any living things on other planets in the Solar system?

 

You're making the argument that the evolution of humans is an important thing as far as the universe is concerned. It is very important for us (duh!) but as far as the universe is concerned we're just another bunch of chemical and physical events. You could equally argue that Uranus is exactly the right distance from the sun for amazing methane storms (or whatever happens on Uranus) to occur.

 

So what or who caused the chemical and physical events to form a human being? Why do the present chemical and physical events not create a man or a new living thing of nothing? What or who caused Uranus to have amazing methane storms?

 

No one. And it is no more "unique' than any other planet or bit of matter. Everything has unique characteristics.

 

So what or who cause every planet to have its own unique characteristics?

 

Just random chance.

 

Does the random chance cause your existence, Mr packham? Does your car exist by random chance, Mr packham? You are making a mockery of science by equating science to a poker game.

 

The simple laws of physics.

 

What are the simple law of Physics, Mr packham?

 

Planets have collided with other things, of course - the asteroid belt is thought to be the remains of a destroyed planet (I think)

 

You think? So what or who caused the destruction of the planet?

 

The large amount of energy that would have been required to achieve this effect and the low combined mass of the current asteroid belt, which is only a small fraction of the mass of the Earth's Moon, do not support your hypothesis above.

 

and our own moon is thought to be a piece of the early earth that was blasted away by the impact of an asteroid (I think). It's possible that the earth will again be devastated by an asteroid orbiting the sun at immense distances.

 

You think? What or who caused the asteroid to hit the proto-Earth? Why doesn't the moon support living things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We know Earth supports living things. On the contrary, you could hardly find any living things on Venus and Mars even though they are nearer to Earth so what or who cause this contradiction?

 

What contradiction? what's so special about life? This planet happens to be one of many in the universe with the right conditions for certain chemical/physical processes to happen. Every planet in the universe is the right one for certain chemical/physical things to happen, they just don't (probbaly) eventually end up with life.

 

I am sure that God is the CREATOR Who had created the universe but you atheists still don't know what or who cause the formation of the universe.

 

For the third time, at least (please try to remember what you read): we don't know what caused the Big Bang, which resulted in the universe. Maybe it was a supernatural being. (Sometimes you call me an atheist, sometimes you call me a Christian; Redeem thinks I'm a closet Hindu ...)

 

So what or who cause Earth to support living things while you could hardly find any living things on other planets in the Solar system?

 

We may yet find that some form of life once existed on Mars. Unlikely, but possible. But what "caused" the earth to be where and what it is is a huge chain of fairly simple events (entirely explicable by physics) which began with the Big Bang.

 

So what or who caused the chemical and physical events to form a human being? Why do the present chemical and physical events not create a man or a new living thing of nothing? What or who caused Uranus to have amazing methane storms?

So what or who cause every planet to have its own unique characteristics?

 

See above.

 

Does the random chance cause your existence, Mr packham? Does your car exist by random chance, Mr packham? You are making a mockery of science by equating science to a poker game.

 

Depends what you mean by "random". Truly random events DO occur at the sub-atomic level, but whether they impact on the macro level I don't know. Try a physics website for answers. We can certainly trace back all the cause-and-effect events that lead to to formation of the bodies in the universe, so in that sense they aren't "random".

 

What are the simple law of Physics, Mr packham?

 

Look up Newton and Einstein and you'll have a good start.

 

 

You think? So what or who caused the destruction of the planet?

 

I think that's still the current theory but I can't be bothered looking at Wiki to check. What caused it? Nothing caused it, in the sense you want. Maybe it was inevitable from the moment the universe came into existence, but maybe it was just chance ('chance' is a scientific concept) - for example I think that current thinking says that with immensely large numbers of variables it is not even theoretically possible to make accurate predictions no matter how much data you have - that you cannot predict where a raindrop will land next week even if you have all the data possible. I'm hazy on this, you would need to check a mathematics and/or physics journal for the details.

 

The large amount of energy that would have been required to achieve this effect and the low combined mass of the current asteroid belt, which is only a small fraction of the mass of the Earth's Moon, do not support your hypothesis above.

 

Got the link for that?

 

What or who caused the asteroid to hit the proto-Earth?

 

See above

 

Why doesn't the moon support living things?

 

The short answer is because it doesn't. AFAIK all the life we so far know about requires chemical/physical conditions that the moon lacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Redeem thinks I'm a closet Hindu ...)

 

Heh.

 

I merely noticed a pattern among atheists (yes, I consider you an atheist, regardless of your "suspicious nature" :sl:) on this forum, which in turn reaffirms a belief that we Muslims hold. But it's an inside joke, you would never understand.

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

packham,

 

I am busy now so I will refute your allegations later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have my own priority so you have to wait for my response. Will you wait for my answers even if you have to wait for a year etc? I am busy refuting anti-Islam allegations now.

 

By the way, do you exist spontaneously? Does you car exist spontaneously? Does atom exist spontaneously? Can you create an atom of nothing? Please tell me about the creations of living things and non-living things on Earth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The argument that some things are created by humans therefore everything was created by a god is just silly.

 

As I've repeatedly said, we don't know and maybe can never know what caused the Big Bang, but since the Big Bang everything that has happened in the universe has happened according to fairly simple natural laws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The argument that some things are created by humans therefore everything was created by a god is just silly.

 

So you think that you, your children, your car, your home, your laptop, the universe etc exist spontaneously.

 

As I've repeatedly said, we don't know and maybe can never know what caused the Big Bang, but since the Big Bang everything that has happened in the universe has happened according to fairly simple natural laws.

 

How can you deny the existence of God when you admit that you don't know and maybe can never know what caused the Big Bang? Who makes the simple natural laws? Why does an apple fall toward the center of Earth not toward the sky?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So you think that you, your children, your car, your home, your laptop, the universe etc exist spontaneously.

 

Obviously children don't exist spontaneously - don't you know how babies are made? Ditto cars and everything else made by humans. The universe exists because of the Big Bang. Everything that has happened since the Big Bang has happened without any need for supernatiural intervention.

 

How can you deny the existence of God when you admit that you don't know and maybe can never know what caused the Big Bang?

 

As I've said repeatedly, it's possible that the Big Bang was caused by a supernatural being. Unlikely, but possible. However there is no evidence at all for anything supernatural happening in the universe since the Big Bang.

 

Who makes the simple natural laws?

 

No-one has to make them, but if you want to anrthopomorphise the universe you could claim that a sentient supernatural being set them in place before the Big Bang.

 

Why does an apple fall toward the center of Earth not toward the sky?

 

Because in this universe there is gravity.

Edited by packham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Obviously children don't exist spontaneously - don't you know how babies are made?

 

So you admit that children do not exist spontaneously. Can you tell me how you make babies?

 

Ditto cars and everything else made by humans.

 

So you admit that someone has created your car etc. In other word, you admit creators exist.

 

As I've said repeatedly, it's possible that the Big Bang was caused by a supernatural being.

 

So you admit a supernatural being has caused the Big Bang. In other word, you admit that a Creator exists.

 

The universe exists because of the Big Bang. Everything that has happened since the Big Bang has happened without any need for supernatiural intervention.

 

You admit that a supernatural being had caused the Big Bang. Why would the supernatural being abandon the universe after He had created it? Let say you clear forest to start a farm. Then you abandon the farm without planting apple trees or seeds and you expect the trees to bear tons of apples for you. Is it logical?

 

 

Unlikely, but possible. However there is no evidence at all for anything supernatural happening in the universe since the Big Bang.

 

We know that the US lawmakers make law for the US and the UK lawmakers for the UK. Please tell me who makes the simple natural laws.

 

Because in this universe there is gravity.

 

Good. Does gravity exist by itself? Do you think gravity exists spontaneously? Who makes gravity?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So you admit that children do not exist spontaneously. Can you tell me how you make babies?

 

Sexual intercourse.

 

So you admit that someone has created your car etc. In other word, you admit creators exist.

 

I don't "admit" that things can be made by humans. Of course they are! However that doesn't mean that everything requires a 'creator'. That's a nonsense argument.

 

So you admit a supernatural being has caused the Big Bang. In other word, you admit that a Creator exists.

 

Learn to read. I said (and have said many, may time - when will it sink in?) that as we don't know what caused the Big Bang it's unlikely but possible that it was caused by a supernatural being. However nothing supernatural has happened in the universe since then.

 

You admit that a supernatural being had caused the Big Bang.

 

Again, learn to read. I said nothing of the sort.

 

Why would the supernatural abandon the universe after He had created it?

 

Why not? As we don't know what happened before the BB, and perhaps can never know, we thus cannot know anything about the motives, beliefs, whatever of the being that caused it, in the unlikely event that a being did cause it. It's certain that no supernatural activity happens in the univrse. Maybe it happened before the universe existed but that's a futile question.

 

Let say you clear forest to start a farm. Then you abandon the farm without planting apple trees or seeds and you expect the trees to bear tons of apples for you. Is it logical?

 

Wot?

 

We know that the US lawmakers make law for the US and the UK lawmakers for the UK. Please tell me who makes the simple natural laws.

Good. Does gravity exist by itself? Do you think gravity exists spontaneously? Who makes gravity?

 

Umm, yes, gravity exists spontaneously. No-one makes gravity. Given the conditions that pertain in this universe (and the universe is everything - by definition nothing can exist outside the universe) gravity is inevitable. That's just how it is. There's no need for a sky pixie to 'make' gravity. This universe has gravity and that's all therre is to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sexual intercourse.

 

Many married couples have sexual intercourse throughout their marriage. How can they have different number of offspring and some of them have none at all even though they are normal persons and have sexual intercourse with their wives or husbands throughout their marriage? Therefore, it is wrong or misleading to say that you can produce offspring by having sexual intercourse with your wife. Even the modern medical methods have failed to help some normal family to have offspring. Based on my argument above, who gives a husband and wife offspring?

 

I don't "admit" that things can be made by humans. Of course they are! However that doesn't mean that everything requires a 'creator'. That's a nonsense argument.

 

Have you forgotten that you have said "Ditto cars and everything else made by humans." ?

 

Your car, home, furniture, clothes, meals, drinks etc require a creator so they don't exist spontaneously. Therefore, it is illogical to say that the universe and its content do not require Creator because everything does not exist spontaneously.

 

Learn to read. I said (and have said many, may time - when will it sink in?) that as we don't know what caused the Big Bang it's unlikely but possible that it was caused by a supernatural being. However nothing supernatural has happened in the universe since then.

 

So you admit that the Big Bang was caused by a supernatural being and we call the supernatural being the Supreme Being or GOD.

 

Again, learn to read. I said nothing of the sort.

 

You have said "As I've said repeatedly, it's possible that the Big Bang was caused by a supernatural being"

 

Why not? As we don't know what happened before the BB, and perhaps can never know, we thus cannot know anything about the motives, beliefs, whatever of the being that caused it, in the unlikely event that a being did cause it. It's certain that no supernatural activity happens in the univrse. Maybe it happened before the universe existed but that's a futile question.

 

So you admit that you don't know what happened before the BB, and perhaps can never know, we thus cannot know anything about the motives, beliefs, whatever of the being that caused it, in the unlikely event that a being did cause it.. How can you claim that God does not exist when you admit that you don't know and your knowledge is very limited?

 

Umm, yes, gravity exists spontaneously. No-one makes gravity. Given the conditions that pertain in this universe (and the universe is everything - by definition nothing can exist outside the universe) gravity is inevitable. That's just how it is. There's no need for a sky pixie to 'make' gravity. This universe has gravity and that's all therre is to it.

 

Define gravity please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×