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If There Were No Palestinian Militants?

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:D

 

How would the situations be different if the Palestinians did not adopt militancy?

 

Please stay on topic.

 

I think things would have been much worse for the Palestinians.

 

The "world" never cared in the first place, they gave the land away even though it was not theirs to give. So whether the Palestinians were pacifist or not, no would care, just the israelis would have easier time killing the Palestinians.

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:D

 

I think a pacificts resistance movement would have a much greater impact, with all that suicide bombing of israelie schoolchildren the Palestinians only cut their own flesh.

 

There are just two thinkable ways out (that I can imagine) .

 

a ) The Palestinians are backed by a powerful Muslim state, which can play their big-brother on the international conference table.

(This would be the option most likely to succeed, I think. But unfortunately we do not have such a powerful Muslim state.)

 

b ) A pacifist Palestinian resistance movement draws so much international attention that israel is forced by his allies to give them a state and to treat them better.

 

 

These two scenarios base both on a two-state-solution of the problem. A single state solution is illusoric, beacuse israel cannot be destroyed due to its military capability as a Nuclear power. (The destruction of israel, which some people blinded of reality argue for implies the destruction of the whole Middle Eastern region between North Syria and Eilat and that's definitely not solution to the problem).

 

 

Ma'a Salama

 

 

nasiruddin

Edited by nasiruddin

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b ) A pacifist Palestinian resistance movement draws so much international attention that israel is forced by his allies to give them a state and to treat them better.

 

:D

 

Bit of hypocrisy there? The pacifist movement requires others to do the forcing?

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Wa aleikum as Salam.

 

For sure, any pacifist movement is totally futile if the enemy isn't affected by public opinion. (see dissidents in the Soviet Union, why couldn't they overthrow the USSR?, because within the communist state their was no public like we know of and the Soviet leadership gave nothing on the opionion of the West about it).

 

It is the question how much israel is influenved by public opinion, but I think they are more in need of US support than of the "territorial" benefit of the West Bank (which is due to their nuclear arms now merely unimportant and comes from an age as the israelis were most endangered by Arab Armies, what today is not the case. Hence the occupation regime is also a bad barter for the israelis, because they do not actually win anything from it (except mad palestinians blowing themselves up among civilians.).

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Wa aleikum as Salam.

 

For sure, any pacifist movement is totally futile if the enemy isn't affected by public opinion. (see dissidents in the Soviet Union, why couldn't they overthrow the USSR?, because within the communist state their was no public like we know of and the Soviet leadership gave nothing on the opionion of the West about it).

 

It is the question how much israel is influenved by public opinion, but I think they are more in need of US support than of the "territorial" benefit of the West Bank (which is due to their nuclear arms now merely unimportant and comes from an age as the israelis were most endangered by Arab Armies, what today is not the case. Hence the occupation regime is also a bad barter for the israelis, because they do not actually win anything from it (except mad palestinians blowing themselves up among civilians.).

 

I agree with your assessment, nasiruddin. :D

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How would the situations be different if the Palestinians did not adopt militancy?

 

Please stay on topic.

 

I think things would have been much worse for the Palestinians.

 

The "world" never cared in the first place, they gave the land away even though it was not theirs to give. So whether the Palestinians were pacifist or not, no would care, just the israelis would have easier time killing the Palestinians.

 

that's precisely my viewpoint too :D

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:D If there were no Palestinian militants, israel's Mossad would set up several False Flag Operations (Terrorists attacks that are carried out and blamed on another people). The attack would then be shown on TV 24/7 to make it look like the Palestinians were responsible.

 

"By way of deception, thou shalt do war" Mossad Agency's motto

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I agree with Jibrael. israel is no ordinary enemy. You cannot behave with them in a way that you would behave with anyone else. They are far too intelligent & cunning.

 

Also one has to note that already there is a large section of the palestinian freedom movement which regularly carries out peaceful protests, etc. But only the few attacks get all the publicity.

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Salaam,

 

we have seen pacifism succeed more than once in living memory. It suceeeds because it creates a true victim status for the oppressed. It is difficult to argue you are oppressed and gain sympathy for it when you go and kill innocent people.

 

The black civil right movement in America succeeded because it was non-violent.

 

The independance movement in India succeeded because it was non-violent.

 

Has violence achieved the aims of the Palestinains? No

Has it harmed their aims? yes.

1. People and states try not to give into terrorism as that would only encourage it

.2. It means the palestinians are seen with less favour on the international state

3. it makes israels policies more acceptable as they are only defending their citizens

4. continues 'all Muslims are terrorists' malarky

 

Further, governments which rule by militancy are usually the sign of a corrupt government as it means they keep power through force, not through popular consensus.

 

Palestine would have done much better not to be so militant and it is something that would serve them in the furture if they stopped blowing people up on buses

 

It is said israel can only survive because of USA's and EU's belssing, I doubt these institutions would be as willing to continue to support some of israel's more draconian policies if the Palestinians removed the justification for them

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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I think a pacificts resistance movement would have a much greater impact, with all that suicide bombing of israelie schoolchildren the Palestinians only cut their own flesh.

 

PALESTINIAN suicide bombers killed some 300 israelis while israeli soldiers killed some 3,000 PALESTINIANS. great difference and you expect PALESTINIANS to bow their head reverently to israeli invaders

 

a ) The Palestinians are backed by a powerful Muslim state, which can play their big-brother on the international conference table.

(This would be the option most likely to succeed, I think. But unfortunately we do not have such a powerful Muslim state.)

 

powerful muslims state as big brother wouldn't be as effective as having superpower usa as an ally. the us feeds israel with billions worth of arms to terrorize PALESTINIANS

 

b ) A pacifist Palestinian resistance movement draws so much international attention that israel is forced by his allies to give them a state and to treat them better.

 

PALESTINE is for PALESTINIANS whereas israel is for israelis. but israelis or jews have lost PALESTINE to romans, persians, crusaders, arab moslems, turks, britiah and arabs. only by un's grace that israel is formed again via dividing PALESTINE. hence no way israeli can give PALESTINIANS their state when in the first place it's israelis who are encroaching into PALESTINE :D

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People are giving the israelis too much credit. They are men, nothing more, nothing less.

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For sure, any pacifist movement is totally futile if the enemy isn't affected by public opinion.

 

without hamas, PALESTINIANS gonna be worst off. israelis are cunning evil lot. they abuse PALESTINIANS under the guise of self defence. they build illegal jewish settlements and erect apartheid security wall deep in occupied PALESTINIAN territories, bulldoze PALESTINIANS' homes, detain and torture PALESTINIANS, terrorize israeli PALESINIANS, commit assassination of suspected militants etc. as you can see israelis get away with their sins coz they have the us as their godfather. as such PALESTINIANS have no choice but to seek hamas as their defender :D

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"By way of deception, thou shalt do war" Mossad Agency's motto

 

"love thy neighbour as thyself" is a farce for israelis :D

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I agree with Jibrael. israel is no ordinary enemy. You cannot behave with them in a way that you would behave with anyone else. They are far too intelligent & cunning.

 

Also one has to note that already there is a large section of the palestinian freedom movement which regularly carries out peaceful protests, etc. But only the few attacks get all the publicity.

 

indeed israelis are cunning manipulative lot. and the world and especially the us are blind to that HARDfact. they couldn't and wouldn't see israelis are terrorizing PALESTINIANS and not vice versa :D

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we have seen pacifism succeed more than once in living memory.

 

it's gonna be suicidal for PALESTINIANS if they were to uphold pacifism. israelis gonna walk all over them like what the white did to native americans :D

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People are giving the israelis too much credit. They are men, nothing more, nothing less.

 

yup israelis are men with two horns (not everyone of course). hehe :D

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hm... Okay I must say I think the HAMAS can turn out as a real catastrophe for the palestinians. I think that peace between the two peoples is possible (and the only solution to the problem). I think the israeli cunning is overestimated (because the South African govt for example also gave in to a peaceful movement and they weren't unintelligent at all). I just saw that popular sympathy for the Palestinians was brought to almost zero in my country by the actions of HAMAS.

 

[at] tom : Salam.

 

Hm.... I can't understand why the israelis should walk over the Palestinians if these try it with pacifist resistance ?

The israelis had the opportunity to complete overrun (means occupy it and drive all palestinians out of them into Jordan and Egypt) the West Bank and Gaza all the time, but they never did. And this for sure was not prevented by the weapons of the palestinian militants, because the israeli war-machine is much superior to the military power of all palestinian factions. This was impossbile to israel because it would have ruined their image and with that all international support they get.

 

 

Ma'a Salama

 

 

nasiruddin

Edited by nasiruddin

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I can't understand why the israelis should walk over the Palestinians if these try it with pacifist resistance ?

 

the PALESTINIANS lost part of PALESTINE when the un divided it to share it with israeli. right? and they lost 1948, 1967 wars with israelis. right? israelis or foreign jews have emerged victorious. right? and their victory is due to the support they received from un, the us and britain. right?

 

nonetheless despite the victory, israelis continue to terrorize loser PALESTINIANS. right? there you are. if loser PALESTINIANS were to become pacifist putty cats they gonna get it worst from victorious israelis. right?

 

you know why? coz israelis are insatiable greedy lot. they don't know the meaning of humility - that the victor should have the humility to treat the loser with respect :D

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Zionist paranoia is doing some Muslims a disservice.

 

on the other hand zionism is manipulated to hoodwink the world that israel is the victim, damsel in distress while hapless PALESTINIANS are viewed as the terrorists. rat :D

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Salam tom.

 

 

I'm sorry but you seem not to have got my stance. israel has been and still is capable of deporting all Palestinians out of Palestine (or even wickeder things), but they didn't. The military resistance, which can be generated by the Palestinians would be no obstacle for the IDF to do that. (Or do you really think the high-tech israeli forces are to be held up by some militia-style infantery detachments without any heavy arms?) So I think they also wouldn't do that when the Palestinians go pacifist.

 

 

Ma'a Salama

 

 

 

nasiruddin

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israel has been and still is capable of deporting all Palestinians out of Palestine (or even wickeder things), but they didn't.

 

un's partition plan is almost 50-50 between PALESTINIAN natives and foreign jews. is it still 50-50 or is it more lands to israelis? if PALESTINIANS were to become pacifists will israel gonna return all occupied PALESTINIAN territories? well? :D

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/middle_east/israel_and_the_palestinians/key_documents/1681322.stm"]UN Partition Plan[/url]

 

Summary of UN General Assembly Resolution 181

November 29, 1947

 

The territory of Palestine should be divided as follows:

 

A Jewish State covering 56.47% of Mandatory Palestine (excluding Jerusalem) with a population of 498,000 Jews and 325,000 Arabs;

 

An Arab State covering 43.53% of Mandatory Palestine (excluding Jerusalem), with 807,000 Arab inhabitants and 10,000 Jewish inhabitants;

 

An international trusteeship regime in Jerusalem, where the population was 100,000 Jews and 105,000 Arabs.

Edited by tom

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Zionist paranoia is doing some Muslims a disservice.

I know it makes us look like a bunch of conspiracy theorists, but it's the truth. Read some of the quotes by Ariel Sharon and co. about how they feel about the Palestinians.

 

"I don't know something called International Principles.

I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian Child will be born in this area.

The Palestinian Woman and Child is more dangerous than the Man,

Because the Palestinian Child existence refers that Generations

will go on, but the man causes limited danger.

I vow that if I was just an israeli Civilian and I met a Palestinian

I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him.

With One hit I've killed 750 Palestinians ( in Rafah, 1956).

I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic Girls as The

Palestinian Woman is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and Nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do. "

Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956 :D

 

"We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters."

Uri Lubrani, israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion’s special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960

 

"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left."

Joseph Weitz, the head of the Jewish Agency’s Colonization Department, which was responsible for the actual organization of settlements in Palestine, 1940

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Hey tom.

 

No it's not and that's a shame, but we are not in power to change this, because we cannot compete militarily with the israelis (and if we could this would be no option, because it would mean Nuclear Apocalypse in the whole Middle Eastern region).

 

But what do I argue for pacifism? Please show me some virtues of militancy! Has the Palestinian situation been better due to the on-going war? (The abandonment of the gaza strip was more a decision of interior polictics and not the often argued 'victory' of HAMAS) A new approach is long overdue. There is no logic in sacrificing the own people by exposing them to the terror of war if there's not the slightest chance to win it. Better the Palestinians have 33% of their country under their own control in peaceful conditions than 3% in war-time conditions.

 

 

Ma'a Salama

 

 

Nasiruddin

Edited by nasiruddin

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Jibrael, there's no doubt that some israelis are very cruel people. But that doesn't mean they're smarter than everyone else. The Palestinians have given the israelis an excuse (however poor) to use deadly force. Do you really believe the situation would be the exact same if the Palestinians had never killed a single israeli?

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