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Sallahudeen

There Is No Room For Freedom In Islam

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pashton, just because he is a westerner and might not like Islamic shariah, doesnt mean he is a bush loving arab killing fascist.

 

Just letting you know brother. :-)

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you are absolutely right, non-muslims are usually treated equally especially in indonesia, given completly equal rights etc, but that is NOT because Islam dictates it. Under the OFFICIAL Islamic "etiquette" of dealing with non muslims the situation is quite different. The reason why the dhimmi population is treated with such kindness is because muslims dont implement those archaic laws on how to treat non-muslims anymore.

If you want to see how dhimmi are to really be treated under Islamic rule look at saudi arabia's model.

 

i think its good that most muslim nations treat non-muslims with relative equality...i believe that is in the spirit of Islam. My guess the 7th century original laws on how to treat dhimmi people were meant to ensure that muslim lands wont be overtaken by bad non-muslims seeking to destroy Islam. Those dhimmi laws in my opinion were like a sort of "martial law", not to be continued forever, but just temporarily due to exceptional circumstances.

well, let me tell you over 80% of the population is MUSLIM, and if they wanted, they could kick all the non-muslims out, and let me tell you, Middle east for hundred's of years was under STRICT IslamIC SHARIA LAW, BUT NON-MUSLIM RELIGION STILL SURVIVED SUPRISINGLY I WONDER WHY?, and another thing, i wonder why when non-muslims when they conquer, they kill to celebrate, while muslims, bow down infront of their most merciful creator and ask for forgiveness, cant beleive it? take Salahu-din as an example, your crusader's when they conquered palestine, they killed over 70 000 Muslims and Christian Arabs put together, while after when Salahudin conquered it again, the first thing he did, was Bow down the in masjid al aqsa to his Creator, and above all that, he payed all those Westerners that got there in order to kill muslims to go back to their homes in the West.

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pashton, just because he is a westerner and might not like Islamic shariah, doesnt mean he is a bush loving arab killing fascist.

 

Just letting you know brother. :-)

i dint ask him to like sharia, and i dint want him to criticise it falsely either so...

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"your crusader's when they conquered palestine"

 

How dare you associate me with those C**ksucking Bas**rds !?

 

Did i ever ask you why YOU attacked the world trade centres and why YOU are burning embassies? NO!

 

Do not over generalise, i love Islam and i regard it as the best religion do not put me in the same category as bush or any other evil tyrant.

 

i am a UNBIASED person, you might have difficulty grasping what that is since you seem to think all people are either bush loving crusaders or muslims.....talk about stereotyping....damn .

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let me tell you over 80% of the population is MUSLIM, and if they wanted, they could kick all the non-muslims out, and let me tell you, Middle east for hundred's of years was under STRICT IslamIC SHARIA LAW, BUT NON-MUSLIM RELIGION STILL SURVIVED SUPRISINGLY I WONDER WHY?

 

 

hehe , this argument is gonna be so easy for me to destroy.

 

#1. the ONLY reason why places where "over 80% of the population is MUSLIM" do not treat non muslims badly nowadays is because the muslims in power do NOT FOLLOW SHARIAH LAWS in this particular matter anymore.

 

#2. yes sure non muslim religions survived but under what restrictions? (i.e. allowed to have churches but not build new ones or repair existing ones).

 

 

Do you need me to teach you about Islamic laws and teachings?

 

 

as i said i like Islam but i also like to be unbiased and tell things the way they are regardless of how much the truth hurts.

Edited by anthony19832005

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i was referring to the fact that not only does sallahudeen disagree with my (as a westerner) opinions but he HATES me for it. And lets not forget , if i moved into a country that implemented shariah, i would be severely marginalised as a non muslim.

Talk about being a muslim in a non-muslim state, peopel like bush wont leave them alone.

 

Muslim: "There is only one Islam".

BUSH: "Radical Muslims...."

Muslim: "There is no such thing as a radical muslim"

BUSH: "Islamic Extremists"

Muslim: "What do you mean?"

BUSH: "Muslim Terrorist"

Muslim: "just a terrorist you mean?"

Bush: "Take that! (points at Guantanamo)"

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:D

 

saladin (western pronunciation) was a great leader. acknowleged by anyone whom has read about the crusades. and respected as a tactician. he was as his religion dictated. merciful.

 

:D

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:D

 

saladin (western pronunciation) was a great leader. acknowleged by anyone whom has read about the crusades. and respected as a tactician. he was as his religion dictated. merciful.

 

:D

 

 

EXACTLY, in my opinion, in many things he personified what a true follower of Islam should behave like. Unfortunately most people are not as wise and will use every shariah loophole to implement Islam in a way so that non muslims are supressed and not in the spirit of justice and brotherhood.

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Talk about being a muslim in a non-muslim state, peopel like bush wont leave them alone.

 

Muslim: "There is only one Islam".

BUSH: "Radical Muslims...."

Muslim: "There is no such thing as a radical muslim"

BUSH: "Islamic Extremists"

Muslim: "What do you mean?"

BUSH: "Muslim Terrorist"

Muslim: "just a terrorist you mean?"

Bush: "Take that! (points at Guantanamo)"

 

 

oh god....so the world really is divided into just 2 categories of people in your mind.....sad, sad indeed.

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:D

 

i said in a previous post that we all generalise too much. nothing is black and white. not all western media is true. it is not all false either. not all conspiracys are true. they are not all false either.

 

not all muslims are moderate. not all westerners are on drugs. the list goes on.

 

these sweeping generalisations are not helping.

 

 

:D

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Say magically an Islamic state perfect in all ways took over the world. I guaruntee you that within 20 years it would break apart into different sections, with different leaders, and different ideas.

 

hhhm, i wonder how the moorish khilafah ramained intact for 700 years before being killed off (literally) by christians.... looks like mr Sky needs to get facts right.....

 

Islam does not do this.

 

prove it.....

 

For people who ask respect for their religion and holy prophet, you show very little respect to others and their values. Beucase we arent like you and dont have the same values, we are decadent, immoral and follow evil ways, that is starting to sound really old and not to mention very offensive.

 

But its part of our "freedom" that you, and I, can say what we want.

 

true saying, respect is a two way thing....

 

If you're a Westerner, and you're not religious, what you believe doesn't matter, apparently. Many Muslims on this forum will always put down the West.

 

not really, i think the west is alright, well only Birmingham, UK...

 

There seems not to be any respect and understanding between some people on this forum and the so called "west". I live in the "west" i do not cheat rape steal or dress naked on the street, and the vast majority of people don't either. Sallahudeen you show much hate for me and others that are not strict muslims as you claim/appear to be. You claim you want non-muslims to respect Islam but lets not be so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance here.

 

"...declaring complete intolerance, hatred,.... and all of its people (i.e. all Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists etc)."

 

Fine, you officially hate ME, i officially hate YOU.

 

:D

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prove it.....

It is self evident. Why try to prove something that is right before your eyes? If you don't see it, it is simply because you don't WANT to see it. You deny the truth.

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It is self evident. Why try to prove something that is right before your eyes? If you don't see it, it is simply because you don't WANT to see it. You deny the truth.

 

It is easier to accuse others of not seeing the truth Lateralus but it is difficult to look in the mirror and judge ourselves and grade ourselves harshly on the same level. Surely if your claim was self-evident then you would not be asked to bring forth substantial evidence to prove your view.

 

The title of the article could have been better phrased. To deny Islam of upholding freedom is to truly deny its meaning.

 

Allah (swt) knows best

 

:D warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

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We do not want the slavery to our desires, money (except when we talk about how wonderful the Kalipha was ), women (except when we go to Heaven ), man-made laws (except when the Qu'ran or Sunnah are sketchy on rulings about photography and we use Ijtihad ), Tony Blair etc like that offered by a free and democratic society, rather the Muslims believe in Islam, which is the total submission to Almighty Allah exclusively by worshipping Him (swt), obeying and following his commands and declaring complete intolerance, hatred, disassociation from Shirk (associating partners with Allah) and all of its people (i.e. all Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists etc). (Except when we're trying to convert them to give us a better shot at heaven )

 

The west calls for freedom of belief, to believe as you wish and worship as you wish and change your Deen as you wish. There is no space for this fallacy in Islam; in the Shari’ah it is well known that we have been ordered with “the one who changes his Deen, [to] kill him.†And although under an Islamic authority nobody will be forced to embrace Islam, we do not accept for people to walk with their idols and crosses in the streets publicly, nor to build any new places of worship (though they may keep their existing ones). ( Though we will happily live in non-Muslim countries that protect our right to wear Muslim clothing and go ape-sh*t if you try and stop us wearing an Abeyah to school .)

 

 

Another favourite of the west is the personal freedom to dress provocatively, to walk naked in the streets harming everybody in their way (We have such people beaten by the Religious Police - which of course causes no harm), freedom to look at pornography ‘as long as it is not children’ (but we do accept marriages and sex with pre-teenage girls as being perfectly legal as long as they've had their first period), freedom to drink themselves into a frenzy until they are drunk and begin to steal, rape, kill and beat their wives and children. (Such treatment of women would never happen in Muslim countries where it is an open subject and there are literally hundreds of organizations devoted to helping such women.) To the point that “the Home Office has suggested that nearly a half of all violent crimes are alcohol related and a staggering 19,000 sexual assaults are also alcohol related.†(We will never admit that we blame alcohol for these problems and fail to address the underlying social problems, we will of course never acknowledge that any Muslims committing evil in the name of Islam are driven by Islam itself, they're obviously driven by social problems.)

 

Continued...

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This is the fruits of freedom! How people live with this corruption in the name of freedom I will never understand! (One wonders how the West can even survive at all let alone be the richest and most advanced set of nations ever.) Allah (swt) ordered us to stay far away from alcohol and all other intoxicants cutting off all of these ills from the root. Islam ensures that nobody feels the urge to exercise any ‘freedom’ to walk naked or dress provocatively or even to freemix let alone to destroy marriages and lives with fornication and adultery. (Yeah - because we'll publically thrash and execute the people that do, which is significantly more morally upstanding than allowing the moral repugnancy of sleeping with the postman.)

 

And besides these and other freedoms to steal, cheat, extort etc in the name of ‘interest’ and ‘profit’ (We call it Jizyah or 'protection money' and would impose it on non-Muslims whether they like it or not.) we have the famous freedom of speech and expression, boasted and ‘courageously’ defended recently throughout Europe. So what is this ‘great’ concept of freedom of expression?

 

Strange… upon examination we find that it is nothing more than an excuse to lie, cheat, slander, backbite, swear, insult, mock and even defame all people in the name of this grand privilege to speak your mind. No, there is no room in Islam for this kind of evil concept, there is no freedom to lie, no freedom to slander, no freedom to swear, no freedom to insult any prophet and the prophet (saw) said, “whoever insults a prophet, kill him.†(Though of course we can lie if we're dealing with an 'enemy of Islam', we can insult Prophets as long as they're Sikhs, Hindu's, Buddhists or Zoroastrians, and we are allowed by God (SAW) Himself to do pretty much as we please with false idols. Of course though our own religious artifacts are called idols by followers of other religions, they are wrong and we are right - we just can't prove it. )

 

So we find that the freedom that people worship is nothing more than an excuse to follow desires and corrupt societies, do you not think that Britain would be much better if the people were honest, trustworthy, decent people who did not swear, nor lie, nor slander each other, if they were not drunken rapists, criminals and adulterers like today but instead were sober and faithful HETERESEXUAL husbands and wives? (We ignore of course the vast majority of people in Britain and everywhere else that are already honest, trustworthy, decent people... Verily Britain will be so much better when governed under the Islamic rules in the coming days inshaa Allah. ( Personal note: Over my dead body. )

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It is easier to accuse others of not seeing the truth Lateralus but it is difficult to look in the mirror and judge ourselves and grade ourselves harshly on the same level. Surely if your claim was self-evident then you would not be asked to bring forth substantial evidence to prove your view.

 

The title of the article could have been better phrased. To deny Islam of upholding freedom is to truly deny its meaning.

 

Allah (swt) knows best

 

:D warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

 

I see Islam like a bubble. You live your life in a bubble because you're afraid of what's on the outside. You're afraid that a bee might sting you, so you gotta stay in that bubble. You're afraid that someone might cough on you and give you a cold, so you gotta stay in that bubble. I guess you are "free" from getting stung or getting a cold. But you're also "free" from experiencing life. You miss out.

 

disclaimer: these are just my own opinions and are in no way intended to demean Islam.

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I see Islam like a bubble. You live your life in a bubble because you're afraid of what's on the outside. You're afraid that a bee might sting you, so you gotta stay in that bubble. You're afraid that someone might cough on you and give you a cold, so you gotta stay in that bubble. I guess you are "free" from getting stung or getting a cold. But you're also "free" from experiencing life. You miss out.

 

disclaimer: these are just my own opinions and are in no way intended to demean Islam.

 

So I guess today you would gladly stand outside and wish cancer upon yourself, wish calamity upon yourself, simply because you think you know it all? I had the choice to do as I pleased and while some people in my family choose to follow the ways of dressing down, consuming alcohol, smoking etc I preferred to stick to Islam and I don’t miss out on anything really (but thank you for your concern). You see, when darkness engulfs us and death over takes us I have nothing to lose while you who defied the existence of God and mocked those who believe in the existence God have much to lose.

 

Eoin

 

We call it Jizyah or 'protection money' and would impose it on non-Muslims whether they like it or not

 

I find this statement quite ironic; everyone who works here has to pay tax money yet in an Islamic state having such things is beyond comprehendible.

 

(except when we go to Heaven ),

 

I assume you’re talking about the 72 virgins; I’m amazed at your lack of understanding on issue. Nonetheless, the virgins are merely granted to those who died in the way of Allah (swt) neither without vanity nor to be remembered as martyr. On the day of resurrection a shahid will be questioned about his action and when he replies for you Allah (swt), God will reply ‘Kadab’ (liar) because he only wanted others to address him as shahid. The one who dies so he may be recognized as martyr can not be brushed with the same brush as the one who does something solely for his creator having no desire about any gains.

 

(Except when we're trying to convert them to give us a better shot at heaven )

 

No one has the will to convert anyone except God. So who ever turns their eyes blind to the truth will be responsible for their actions.

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So I guess today you would gladly stand outside and wish cancer upon yourself, wish calamity upon yourself, simply because you think you know it all? I had the choice to do as I pleased and while some people in my family choose to follow the ways of dressing down, consuming alcohol, smoking etc I preferred to stick to Islam and I don’t miss out on anything really (but thank you for your concern). You see, when darkness engulfs us and death over takes us I have nothing to lose while you who defied the existence of God and mocked those who believe in the existence God have much to lose.

Huh? Who would wish cancer or calamity on themselves? I just accept the fact that this is part of life. I don't try to isolate myself from life, itself. It has been stated many times that Islam is about submission. Submission and freedom are diametrically opposed.

 

I don't mock anyone's belief in God. Religion? That's completely different. You'll never convince me that (any) religion was anything but a construct of man. I believe God looks at all organized religions and marvels at how badly we got it wrong. This is getting off topic, though.

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This is the fruits of freedom! How people live with this corruption in the name of freedom I will never understand! CUT SHORT more morally upstanding than allowing the moral repugnancy of sleeping with the postman.[/i])

 

although throughout the media and the television we are brainwashed into thinking that fornication and adultury are acceptable and part of life however the reality behind the temporary high is a lot of people who get hurt and a lot of lives are destroyed... personally if a man or woman cannot be true and faithful to thier partner then they deserve a public thrashing because for starters they will feel humiliated and anyone else thinking to have a temporary high will be put off the idea too.....

 

And besides these and other CUT SHORT recently throughout Europe. So what is this ‘great’ concept of freedom of expression?

 

right... this is the first time i have put a source in this forum...

 

the book i'm taking this from is called

 

'Rights of Non Muslims in Islamic State' by S.Abdul A'LA MAUDUDI

Islamic Publications Ltd. Lahore (Pakistan)

 

page 9 The Conquered part 'a'

 

'as soon as the (islamic) state accepts jizyah from them (conquered peepz), it becomes the obligatory responsibility of every Muslim to protect thier land and properties thier life and honour. The acceptance of jizyah establishes the sanctity of thier lives and property, and thereafter, neither the Islamic state nor the Muslim public have any right to violate thier property, honour or liberty.'

 

Strange… upon examination we find that it is nothing more than an excuse to lie, cheat, slander, backbite, swear, insult, mock and CUT SHORT artifacts are called idols by followers of other religions, they are wrong and we are right - we just can't prove it. [/i])

 

for the record muslims must respect another persons belief

 

i suggest you listen to a few lectures and read a few books, one which even describes the probability of the accuracy of the quran...

 

So we find that the freedom CUT SHORT much better when governed under the Islamic rules in the coming days inshaa Allah. ( Personal note: Over my dead body. )

 

well written Eion, it obvious you thought this one through.... and i indeed think that britain will be so much better if shariah law was implemented... imagine it, interest free, less home repossesions and old people not scared to go out at night...

 

mind you with most people in britain being athiest they're half way to becoming muslim as they've taken up the first half of the shahada 'there in no god' already, its just the second part 'but Allah' that they need to take up before turning muslim... may Allah guide them all...

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for the record muslims must respect another persons belief

 

In theory, yes, but we all know this is not reality.

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In theory, yes, but we all know this is not reality.

it is sad that in theory i'd disagree with you but in reality i agree

Edited by shaidmahmood

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:D

 

Muslims respect others beliefs. But we do not allow them to propagate their religion (in an Islamic state) or build new houses of worship.

 

:D

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:D

 

Muslims respect others beliefs. But we do not allow them to propagate their religion (in an Islamic state) or build new houses of worship.

 

:D

 

What would be your reaction if the UK adopted such a policy towards muslims here?

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Muslims respect others beliefs. But we do not allow them to propagate their religion (in an Islamic state) or build new houses of worship.

 

This is not respect then. Check the dictionary, respect means "To avoid violation of or interference with" or "To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem". What you say falls into neither definition.

 

You do not make those you respect hide in a corner.

 

Which is a better show of respect, to not allow someone to propagate their religion or to allow someone the freedom to spread their religion if they are able? The obvious answer is the latter.

 

In this case, Western nations show more respect for Islam than Islam shows for other religions. There are no laws in the US that prohibit Masjids from being built, but in an Islamic state Christians and others would not be allowed to do so.

 

Compared to what we have in the West now, under Sharia the freedoms of non-Muslims would be very limited. All non-Muslims would lose freedoms and not gain any.

 

I find this statement quite ironic; everyone who works here has to pay tax money yet in an Islamic state having such things is beyond comprehendible.

 

No, what is beyond comprehension is the Sharia form of taxation in which non-Muslims have to pay more taxes in order to have less rights. Muslims, no doubt, would be happier under true Sharia law, but this insistence on trying to make non-Muslims believe they also would be better off under Muslim rule and law is silly.

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