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3dshocker

The Muhammad Cartoons

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:D

 

if intelligence is the capacity to remember things already discovered, women are more intelligent. they do have better memories, are more employable, more tolerant, can do more than one thing at a time, are carers and nurturers, look better, smell better, are more organised, cleaner, etc. they are also wonderful mates.

 

you cant make the point that woman have been suppressed as an excuse to why men have dominated science and the arts. women have had ample opportunity to contribute over millenia. esspecially in times of war of famine, when all human potential is needed. these are opportune times to contribute and prove ability. that nowhere in history has the breakthrough been made proves that men are just better in these fields.

 

im not suggesting men are better at everything. we are not. my wife leaves me for dead in lots of areas. more than i do to her. but im not embarrased, i know we both have something to offer.

 

Islam provides the roles that suit man and woman. and i belive the church did also. the west has wandered from the chuch, and male/ female roles have suffered. in the east there is no such problem. roles are well defined. it is better for the whole of society.

 

:D

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PropellerAds

Trying getting a women to agree with the view that they are best suited for working in the roles assigned to them by a male chauvenistic society - this usually refers to only the kitchen and the bedroom. :D

 

P.S. It is not "better for the whole of society", It is better for men - if you've taken a politics course, you'd know what I mean.

Edited by 3dshocker

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:D

 

having children is a choice. when one choses to do so women are the nurturers. what a woman does before and after her child raising duties is for the husband and wife to discuss.

 

there is no reason in my opinion for the wife not to be involved in her chosen activity, after the children need her less, as long as both partners agree.

 

to suggest that a woman can be controlled very easily by a man, in my experience, suggests that the 'suggester' doesnt know that much about women! wow. ive had an experience or two during my single life , if you will, of the determination of a woman when she digs in her heels. i dont care what culture they come from, they dont bully worth a damn, and they make you suffer if you try!

 

women are wonderful, spirited, intelligent creations that god has blessed us with. they are our mates, our equals, and our mothers. but as any married man will know. they have their ways, to get their way!

 

my wife is muslim, came from a traditional muslim upbringing, and she's half my size, seems no one ever told her i was meant to be boss!! :D :D

 

:D

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what a woman does before and after her child raising duties is for the husband and wife to discuss.

 

there is no reason in my opinion for the wife not to be involved in her chosen activity, after the children need her less, as long as both partners agree.

 

The duties is part of a traditional roles assigned to women from male chauvenistic societies - like europe in the middle ages for example. It is part of a social construct designed for women by men. To refer to it as a chosen activity, is quite misleading. If you don't understand what I mean, atleast start by noting the difference between "female human", and "woman".

 

Oh yes, and I will declare now that I know less about women then any other man on the planet. But I do know that women can easily be oppressed -----> because they are naturally the less aggressive. Oddballs like your wife, are exceptions that are quite interesting but overall the stereotype still works.

Edited by 3dshocker

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you cant make the point that woman have been suppressed as an excuse to why men have dominated science and the arts. women have had ample opportunity to contribute over millenia. esspecially in times of war of famine, when all human potential is needed. these are opportune times to contribute and prove ability. that nowhere in history has the breakthrough been made proves that men are just better in these fields.

hmm.. something to think about...Going back to prehistory.

According to anthropoly:

Men usually took parts in battles since women were less indispensible.There were too many battles and casualties and women couldn't be spared.

(1 male can fertilize multiple females which was necessary to keep the population going etc.)

also there is the nurturing the kids factor.

Also, women are less fierce than men and that's why men were suitable for war and there aren't too many female war legends.

About famine I don't really know how they could have contributed.

I mean how do men contribute in a famine? :D

But in today's age, you need more brains than brawn and that's why women no longer need to be confined in traditional roles.

 

my wife is muslim, came from a traditional muslim upbringing, and she's half my size, seems no one ever told her i was meant to be boss!! :D :D

Hey...now you be easy with her...big boy..just kidding. :D

size/strength is indeed where men physically have an edge. excluding them brolic amazons..grrr (sorry)

I though that you would bring that up though..the fact that men are atleast as smart and definitely bigger than women... than why not claim superiority etc.

But I think we are on the same page again (more or less)

peace

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:D

 

llogical.

 

there is more to war than muscle. i contend technology is the most important.

 

and 3d. considering my recent banning i must be cautious in how i respond to you calling my wife an oddball. she is my wife. not a stripper.

i think you owe me an apology.

 

:D

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zuki, u must be furious? :D

 

Do you even know what an oddball is? I have no idea how you made the connection between oddball and stripper but I assure you - I am not calling your wife a stripper.

 

At least learn the meaning of the word before you get offended. :D

(www.)"http://urbandictionary####/define.php?term=oddball"]urbandictionary###

##/define.php?term=oddball[/url]

 

In every day language (at least where I'm from) an "oddball" refers to a person who is out of the odinary-->Not like the rest. I was simply saying that your wife must be a part of that unique brand of women, considering how she is the boss in your relationship :D

 

Apology request denied.

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A word to the wise, don't speak without knowledge of the subject; if you want to discuss something at least research about it from an Islamic perspective first.

 

Please read the following:

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=8416&view=findpost&p=79324"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showto...indpost&p=79324[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=6501&view=findpost&p=63069"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showto...indpost&p=63069[/url]

 

Excuse the funny characters.

 

As a final note, both men and women are intelligent and there is scientific proof of that. Anyway, that is another issue and having a certain role in society doesn't mean you are not intelligent.

 

Lol women are in charge of children, the future of society; I doubt they would have that role if they weren't intelligent.

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there is more to war than muscle. i contend technology is the most important.

 

not sure how it happened but I think we are on the same side of argument.

The reason why I brought up the prehistoric junk was because you kept bringing up war and famine.

 

As a final note, both men and women are intelligent and there is scientific proof of that. Anyway, that is another issue and having a certain role in society doesn't mean you are not intelligent.

Lol women are in charge of children, the future of society; I doubt they would have that role if they weren't intelligent.

Why should we listen to you?... you're a women. Just kidding (sorry if u don't like jokes :D )

I agree with your point though.(I guess I'm like a male feminist)

:D

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Find me a real Islamic society (one where women are treated equal to men) and I'll discuss this with you then :D

 

P.S. Why does everyone keep thinking I'm from the USA???

 

 

first of all there is no country in the world that rules fully by the shariah law. most countries are muslims but the law and order is not. they take bits and leave bits.

 

what the west do not undertsand is men and women are not equal in any society. they are made to be diffrent . they have diffrent qualities and attributes.

in Islam Allah gives men their duties and women their duties. they both are samein the eyes of Allah but have diffrent duties.

 

its natural. you want women to be like men visa versa. it wont work. even in the uk. women are paid less than men. plus women are not in all kind of jobs.

 

who defines equality you or Allah.

 

Allah defined to us roles. if you se its not equall that upt you. but western laws are not our benchmark.

 

in Islam the women is honour therefore protected and covering is an obligatiob from Allah.

the nuns cover. why does no-one say anyhting.

 

also there is no such thing as freedom of speech. its all a joke.

these newspapers are hiding behind the smokescreen of fredom of speech. while a man is jailed for denying the holocaust. where is his freedom.

 

you should know every country has law and order and no-one is free to say or do whatever.

but it seems its ok to insult muslims but you cant insult jews.

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Shocker you speak of Galileo, but when Socrates is mentioned you hang your head low.

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Shocker you speak of Galileo, but when Socrates is mentioned you hang your head low.

word....what about socrates though? I mean the man can be described by a symbol.

This one "?"

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Shocker you speak of Galileo, but when Socrates is mentioned you hang your head low.

Socrates hasn't been mentioned so far and why would I hang my head low?

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Furthermore it is the continuous oblieteration of old beliefs by we liberals of the west and europe that have lead to women being treated as persons

 

This is out of the topic but you raise the question...

Can you please explain me when woman is liberated in West and UK? Before this what their status is?

 

Which system gave the rights of woman since 2000 yrs of history?

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It's a crystal clear inference than that it will cause disturbance across muslim nations.

Doesn't take Einstein to figure out that it's a bad move. After all free expression wouldn't allow

you to print the Images from the stolen tape of Pam Anderson and Tommy Lee. In a "free country" try walking down the street with no clothes on and see if free expression is truely free.

Laws shouldn't exclude diplomacy. On the flipside though, If muslims want to hang the homos or adulterers, than that would be something to thinkabout as here, the state and the church may not avoid a conflict. But in regards to the cartoons, there is no conflict. It was simply a bad move.

peace. :D

AOA,

Good points brother....

3DShock....There are provisions in law for two cases that limit free speech: obscene material and a compelling government interest. (US law).. shold not be tolarated. This law is present almost in all democratic world. That is the reason major USA media prohibited re-printing the images.

 

If the Blasphemy is distroying the interest of the country, economy and creating problems of law and order..then?? We don't need to stop it?

 

What about Clinton..... he is not the stupid guy i guess???

 

Former president Bill Clinton warned of rising anti-Islamic prejudice, comparing it to historic anti-Semitism as he condemned the publishing of the cartoons.

"So now what are we going to do? ... Replace the anti-Semitic prejudice with anti-Islamic prejudice?" he said at an economic conference in the Qatari capital of Doha.

 

"In Europe, most of the struggles we've had in the past 50 years have been to fight prejudices against Jews, to fight against anti-Semitism," he said.

 

"Because people see headlines that they don't like [they will] apply that to a whole religion, a whole faith, a whole region and a whole people?" he asked.

 

So basically the cartoons are published to show this world that " Alla muslims are terrorists"

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June 11, 1929, women are finally declared "persons" under Canadian law. The historic legal victory is due to the persistence of five Alberta women — Emily Murphy, Nellie McClung, Irene Parlby, Louise McKinney and Henrietta Muir Edwards.

 

Before this women were not considered persons in Canada. What I'm trying to get at is that women have more power and influence in the west and europe then in most other parts of the world. They do not have complete freedom and power but they are closer to it here then they are anywhere else.

 

Which system gave the rights of woman since 2000 yrs of history?

I think it might have been in a theory first proposed by Plato but not sure.

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June 11, 1929, women are finally declared "persons" under Canadian law. The historic legal victory is due to the persistence of five Alberta women — Emily Murphy, Nellie McClung, Irene Parlby, Louise McKinney and Henrietta Muir Edwards.

 

Before this women were not considered persons in Canada. What I'm trying to get at is that women have more power and influence in the west and europe then in most other parts of the world. They do not have complete freedom and power but they are closer to it here then they are anywhere else.

I think it might have been in a theory first proposed by Plato but not sure.

 

So woman got status of human being (person) in June 11, 1929. Before that she was not treated as human being in the west, right?

 

So you don't know which system is given the rights of woman 1400 years ago, please go back and check the Islamic history. If you can't find, i will show you.. Insha Allah.

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There is a distinct difference between human being and person - try reading up on history in general instead of just religious history. Women have always been treated as human beings. A person in the west is much closer to freedom then under any religious rule. If you have beef with this, look at the other thread about freedom and democracy vs religion and dictatorship.

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hello

 

^^ well the history books (not Islamic) i have read, most women were not treated like human beings actually. they were threated with disdain, the only use for them by men was really satisfiying their (mens) lusts.

 

note i said most. there were people who treated women right like the true followers of The prophets Alayhimus Salaam.

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There is a distinct difference between human being and person - try reading up on history in general instead of just religious history. Women have always been treated as human beings. A person in the west is much closer to freedom then under any religious rule. If you have beef with this, look at the other thread about freedom and democracy vs religion and dictatorship.

Forget about human being vs person...

So woman got status of person in June 11, 1929. Before that she was not treated as non-person in the west, right?

When I said Islamic history it means muslim history, it means muslim khilafath. There is no religious history existed, its called muslim history. Don't try mix democracy or dictatorship in this thread.

 

Um-`Eesaa: Thanks for your explanation.

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:D

 

 

Australia was the first country in the world to give women both the right to vote and the right to stand for Parliament when, in 1902, the federal Parliament passed the Commonwealth Franchise Act.

 

 

:D

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Forget about human being vs person...

So woman got status of person in June 11, 1929. Before that she was not treated as non-person in the west, right?

When I said Islamic history it means muslim history, it means muslim khilafath. There is no religious history existed, its called muslim history. Don't try mix democracy or dictatorship in this thread.

 

Um-`Eesaa: Thanks for your explanation.

 

The key thing about being a person in the west is that they are considered to be worth something and they are free to pursue their desires. You cannot have this in an Islamic society as it assigns roles and duties to everyone, essentially making them all slaves of god and religion. Do not try to tell me that Islam or any religion offers this kind of freedom.

 

Also this topic is about the muhammad cartoons, do not stray off topic. This a clash of culture between those who want to be free of religious order and those who want to impose religious order.

Edited by 3dshocker

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Do not try to tell me that Islam or any religion offers this kind of freedom.

 

Also this topic is about the muhammad cartoons, do not stray off topic. This a clash of culture between those who want to be free of religious order and those who want to impose religious order.

Hold your horses dude.. If this topic is not about Woman and religion then why you are attacking on religion in non-religion topic. Same principle applies to you dude.

 

Remember bill Clinton is not the son of Islamic world.

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:D

Australia was the first country in the world to give women both the right to vote and the right to stand for Parliament when, in 1902, the federal Parliament passed the Commonwealth Franchise Act.

:D

Exactly! that was my point.... thanks for your sharing..

These controversialists open their eyes in this century. Before that they were living like animals, they use to call them self talkative animals. Its the Islam which brought the dignity of woman and dignity of servant 1400 yrs ago. Its the Islam which gave every muslim girl "right to select' her hubby with her own choice even parents can't force them to marry against their wish.

Its the Islam which gave the right of property to every girl of the family. Till 1965 black ppl were under horrible state sponsored crimes. Suddenly they become the champions of freedom.

Edited by MP19

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Mite wanna tag on "it is Islam that restricted lives of men and women through assigned roles and duties". I do not see this as a wonderful thing.

 

once again, back to the cartoons pls.

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