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The Muhammad Cartoons

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Mite wanna tag on "it is Islam that restricted lives of men and women through assigned roles and duties". I do not see this as a wonderful thing.

 

once again, back to the cartoons pls.

 

Salam,

 

Omg, sure. Woman have to cover their modisty. That must suck U cant see them wearing tight shirts etc.. bummer.. :D Oh, I hope u know that Man have to do the same? But u wouldn't care to know about that? Or even ask, do Muslim man have to cover themselves? ha?

 

 

Salam.

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PropellerAds

:D

 

mmmm. cartoons. wonder how the iranians are going? any date set yet for the announcement of a winner?

 

:D

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okay i thought i'd be the first to go back on topic :D (these are my personal opinions btw)

 

#1 - Do these people have no sense of humour regarding religion?

I don't think any religion is a laughing matter. i wouldn't go insulting any religion.

 

#2 - Why should the Prophet Muhammad and Islam recieve immunity from being targets of humour?

seriously i dont expect anyone to give them immunity. but, then they should also be prepared for people who WILL do all that is happening now.

 

#3 - Why should Muhammad and Islam recieve immunity from insultive opinions?

same answer as above

 

#4 - Why should religious beliefs be respected at all?

its morally right.

 

#5 - Why does there seem to be an obession with Muhammad in the muslim community?

i would say extreme love as he :D was the one who brought us the way to earn salvation... but you have already at one point in the thread called love obsession...

 

#6 - I have muslim friends who said what both sides did were stupid, but their not going to go all out protests against whats happening cuz they have better things to do - does the fact that these ppl don't care enough to protest on the streets make them any less muslim?

i am not going and protesting in the streets either. :D .. not because i dont care enough, but because i dont have time, any way to get to protests, and because i dont want to go to any protests.

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hello

 

well its not about priorities... i am just not the kind of person who goes in protests etc..

 

but, when the cartoons did come out way back in september, me and my husband did take the advce of a Danish muslim brother to not talk about the cartoons, as that gives them publicity.

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you cant make the point that woman have been suppressed as an excuse to why men have dominated science and the arts. women have had ample opportunity to contribute over millenia

Part of this suppression is, that the contribution women made have been neglected or denied. If You ever visit a website fightuing for feminism, You will see ample evidence of it. It may be exaggerated (feminists tend do so, like many other supporters of a biased view), but there is something in it.

I once met Muslim women on the net who told me this happened in Islam, too. In the earlier times of the Umma, before the decline of the Islamic culture, women had opportunities to study, write books and even contribute to science. I don't recall the details, I can't say how much it was exaggerated, but if You think of the role of A'isha You may detect you have to think twice whether the role of women in Islam is correctly described by tradition solely transmitted by men.

 

im not suggesting men are better at everything

Men are better doing hard physical work, women are better in learning languages, reading and writing. Men are better in mathematics, including geometry. Women are better in art (singing, dancing, painting, ...). As to politics, men will have less problems to abstract from their feelings and look rather neutral, "objectiv" to a matter, while finding it much more difficult to read a poker face oder understand the feelings of a negociation partner.

There are many differences, and of course every point is just a statistical fact. Individual men or women might grossly differ from the picture stated above, and I don't claim everything is 100% correct. But if You want to understand where the strength and where the weakness of a gender is, you have to give both genders equal rights and opportunities to learn and do what they want. They will soon find out for themselves what suits them best.

 

Islam provides the roles that suit man and woman

Where is the role that allows a woman to contribute to the welfare of her society by her linguistic abilities, that are (statistically speaking) better than those of men? Where are the responsible positions a woman can use her potential for empathy to spread peace in a society stressed with conflicts? And what about the untypical ones, as the first programmer, Ada Lovelace, a woman?

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The duties is part of a traditional roles assigned to women from male chauvenistic societies - like europe in the middle ages for example

It may interest You, that in the middle ages woman had more rights than in the 19.th century. Both in Europe and in the Islamic world.

 

The real dark ages of Europe were not the middle ages, but rather the 17.th century with its 30-year-war and the witch-hunting.

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I don't think any religion is a laughing matter. i wouldn't go insulting any religion.

Not every laughing is insulting. God promises us eternal joy, even some joy in this life when we folow his guidance. And joy and laughter are sisters.

 

A joke against a religious person is not necessarly an insult of his religion. It may be a criticism of the way he interprets his religion. Jews, I have heard, have a long tradition of jokes upon their rabbis. There are also many jokes on monks or preachers that are not offensic to Christian hearers.

As for the cartoons, the one showing the suicide bombers arriving at heaven is clearly meant as an criticism of the bombers, no mock on heaven. No-one in his senses would take the text seriosly, but the laugh about it also leads one to ask whether these bombers really do what God appraises.

 

seriously i dont expect anyone to give them immunity. but, then they should also be prepared for people who WILL do all that is happening now.

Double-speak. You state the facts in way that sound as approving the attacks, at the same time saying do don't mean what the violent protesters means

 

i would say extreme love as he :D was the one who brought us the way to earn salvation

But if Mohammad is extremely loved, one would expect his lovers to follow his example. Was Mohammad so insensitive not to discern between the authors of an insult (the cartoons, in this case) and others who just happen to have the same nationality than these the people (the personell at the embassy)? Did he answer words with murder?

If yes, I wonder why you love him. If no, the violent protesters do not love him really, whatever they say or think.

 

i am not going and protesting in the streets either. :D .. not because i dont care enough, but because i dont have time

You have 24 hours a day. Having no times means things You care more about pile up to 24 hours. So, You don't care that much. :D

 

and because i dont want to go to any protests

:? Why? Fear? Don't like fellow-protesters that might get violent? Or, if I'm allowed to exaggerate, do You like watching tv more than protesting?

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Hi

You are right in a way saying that Woman dont in reality have as many rights as Islam has given them in many countries...the cause is not obeying the tenants of Islam strictly than obeying it.It doesnt really matter whether men transmitted it or not because the texts are preserved and any change in it is easily detectable for those who are prepared to study.

 

Where is the role that allows a woman to contribute to the welfare of her society by her linguistic abilities, that are (statistically speaking) better than those of men? Where are the responsible positions a woman can use her potential for empathy to spread peace in a society stressed with conflicts? And what about the untypical ones, as the first programmer, Ada Lovelace, a woman

Islam does not say its forbidden for women to work outside the house ..but rather its permissible provided modesty is observed and other conditions of safety are met .But its not something recommended or encouraged.

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hello [at] looking by

 

well i don't see where it sounds as if i am approving violent protests. if you check around the forum you will see i am condeming them, in fact i just posted a whole article i found this morning that very blatently condems violent protests.

 

just cuz i dont go in a protest doesnt mean i dont care. its just not my way. i would rather stay home and pray, as i think that would be more effective on my part. and as for watching TV... i have to give that a big LOL since i dont even HAVE one.

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hello [at] looking by

 

well i don't see where it sounds as if i am approving violent protests.

I meant this sentence:

but, then they should also be prepared for people who WILL do all that is happening now.

If You say its natural that people react this way, this sound as if You are at least neutral to it. In Your post You didn't say a word that could prevent me from misunderstanding you in that way.

 

in fact i just posted a whole article i found this morning that very blatently condems violent protests.

I didn't know it.

 

just cuz i dont go in a protest doesnt mean i dont care. its just not my way

I see.

 

i would rather stay home and pray, as i think that would be more effective on my part

Fine.

 

and as for watching TV... i have to give that a big LOL

It wasn't meant serios, just a bit of poking. And it didn't hurt You, as Your LOL shows. If anything else I said has hurt You, I apologize.

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Hello [at] looking by

 

dont worry, just clearing up my thoughts :D

 

bye

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I've got a few questions

 

1) Why should a non-muslim cartoonist, working for a non-muslim paper, in a non-muslim country, follow a muslim religious/culture law? I don't follow Hindu, Jewish or Christian religious laws, why should I obey Muslims?

 

2) Do muslims believe that their Islamic Laws take precedence over the laws of the State?

 

3) Why is it I see muslims engaging in huge protests when the prophet is depicted in cartoons, but I never see muslims protest when a man named after the prophet commits a terrorist act in his name? ( There were at least three Muhammeds in the 9/11 crew, for example...)

 

4) What if I do not respect Islam? Do I then deserve death?

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:D

 

 

(1) respect.

 

(2) ill leave this to my more learned colleagues.

 

(3) 911 wasnt committed by muslims.

 

(4) depends how you transgress.

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I've got a few questions

 

1) Why should a non-muslim cartoonist, working for a non-muslim paper, in a non-muslim country, follow a muslim religious/culture law? I don't follow Hindu, Jewish or Christian religious laws, why should I obey Muslims?

 

2) Do muslims believe that their Islamic Laws take precedence over the laws of the State?

 

3) Why is it I see muslims engaging in huge protests when the prophet is depicted in cartoons, but I never see muslims protest when a man named after the prophet commits a terrorist act in his name? ( There were at least three Muhammeds in the 9/11 crew, for example...)

 

4) What if I do not respect Islam? Do I then deserve death?

 

Why should you wear any cloth? Why don’t u run around naked in the streets? Obviously you have "morals", and you do have some belief in a higher power. If you don't, then why do you fallow ethics? Do what you wish in this world, after its short, and there is nothing after it.

 

I never get Atheists, why they obey rules, when they "say" they don't.

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Why should you wear any cloth? Why don’t u run around naked in the streets? Obviously you have "morals", and you do have some belief in a higher power. If you don't, then why do you fallow ethics? Do what you wish in this world, after its short, and there is nothing after it.

 

I never get Atheists, why they obey rules, when they "say" they don't.

 

 

Cloth? Ever lived in Newfoundland? We had 70 cm of snow yesterday. Lack of clothing will get you killed.

 

And ethics are not about religion. Religious people do not have a monoploy on morals. Moral judgement is about doing what is right for your community.

 

But on to Zukiful, are you saying that certain transgressions against Islam should result in my death? Like what? I see how one could justify killing me if I bombed a Masjid or assassinated a holy man... but drawing a picture? Garbage.

 

The problem with respect is that it is earned, not given. If the cartoonist does not respect Islam, or it's philosophy, should he have to follow its laws?

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:D

 

you answered your own question..well done! :D

 

:D

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Cloth? Ever lived in Newfoundland? We had 70 cm of snow yesterday. Lack of clothing will get you killed.

 

And ethics are not about religion. Religious people do not have a monoploy on morals. Moral judgement is about doing what is right for your community.

 

But on to Zukiful, are you saying that certain transgressions against Islam should result in my death? Like what? I see how one could justify killing me if I bombed a Masjid or assassinated a holy man... but drawing a picture? Garbage.

 

The problem with respect is that it is earned, not given. If the cartoonist does not respect Islam, or it's philosophy, should he have to follow its laws?

 

 

U toke my comments too literaly on the wearing cloth, but anyhow u still haven't explained why Atheast obey soical norms? If all soical norms are contsructed by religion and faith in god or an after life.

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I'm no atheist, but ...

Why should you wear any cloth? Why don’t u run around naked in the streets?

It's a reasonable demand a person should confirm to the rules of the society she lives in (or "he", if she happens to be a man :D ). Of course, the rules may be such that this demand is no longer reasonable. In North Korea, it is forbidden to pray or even to mention God in any way. But any society has rules to seperate decent and shameless behavior, and if it happens that this means wearing certains cloth (as in most societies), an Atheist will find it reasonable to confirm to it.

 

But the Danish cartoonists did not violate any rules of the Danish society. And if I'm informed right, the Danish Muslim umma also decided to start a reasonable debate, and no riots. The question is, why should these cartoonists obey Islamic rules? They likelwise don't follw Christians rules, if I'm not mistaken.

 

I never get Atheists, why they obey rules, when they "say" they don't.

I suppose every atheist follows the rule driving on the right side of the street (and yes, I know there are countries where the right side is on the left :D). But I can't see this is a contradiction to what Lee wrote.

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considering this IS an Islamic forum, word of caution - it's a bit extreme, rascist - yet hilariously funny :D

If you are very deeply devoted to Islam, you'll just get offended.

If you are either a laid back muslim or an atheist like myself :D

you will find this funny and hopefully c the point that is being made on the world stage.

 

View at your own discretion,

(www.)"http://zipperfish/free/yaafm12.php"]zipperfish/free/yaafm12.php[/url]

 

P.S. Why am I posting this? There is indeed a point being made in the episode.

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U toke my comments too literaly on the wearing cloth, but anyhow u still haven't explained why Atheast obey soical norms? If all soical norms are contsructed by religion and faith in god or an after life.

 

Obviously. You asked why I wear clothes. Clothes are a social noorm in my society and my culture, (descended from Anglo-Saxons, Celts... living in North East Canada) because they were necessary for survival. Later on in human development, theybecame a social norm and were adopted into culture/religion. The primary reason, however, is still protection from the elements..

 

Atheist obey social norms for two reasons A) it is part of the society they were raised in. B) they are the right thing to do. What does this have to do with the cartoons.

 

It is a social norm in Denmark and most of the West to be frank about religion, and treat religious figures and matter lightly. It is completely acceptable in Denmark to show a cartoon, Yes even an insulting one, of a religious/historical figure. So why should Denmark apologize?

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:D

 

a naked george bush would believe he was wearing clothes, if his zionist buddies told him. :D

 

 

:D

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:D

 

a naked george bush would believe he was wearing clothes, if his zionist buddies told him. :D

:D

 

 

And a bomb-wearing palestinian youth would believe he's minutes away from a 70-virgin lap dance if an Imam told him. Attacking people gets you nowhere, Zukiful.

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:D

 

 

 

And a bomb-wearing palestinian youth would believe he's minutes away from a 70-virgin lap dance if an Imam told him.

 

only after his mother, father, brothers and baby sister were murdered by israeli scum whilst sleeping in their beds.

 

:D

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