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fluffysteve

Cartoons: Okay, I Got Banned, Now Im Back With Some Thoughts

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you cant prove anything. if you cant prove something, then it doesnt deserve belief.

 

Peace fluffysteve!

 

That is a purely materialistic approach. All atheists who die as atheists will end up in Hell for that approach.

 

Look around you, there are ten of thousands of proofs of the Creator.

 

When you realise that the Creator exists, then you will begin to appreciate that all Laws attributed to Him from reliable sources are His.

 

Until then.......

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Peace Lee!

 

What the heck are you talking about? Your wife is only up for takes if she decides to leave you. In the West, one can't sue for a wife. Of course, in the west, a wife isn't considered property either...

 

We are talking about wives in the west. Every man considers success in adultery and fornication a feather in the cap, hence every woman is flesh for him to get. I am not talking about after she leaves you. The result of a guilty relationship is divorce. There is no punishment. That is why the number of divorces is high in the west.

 

And legal action ensures that the person is actually guilty, and gets a fair trial. If it was up to an Imam to decide who the transgressor is, he could simply execute or intimidate any man that disagreed with him.

 

LOL. Ignorance makes a person say really funny stuff. You don't even know the function of an Imam, how would you even know his commitments? You look at it from a purely materialistic point of view, hence everything is tainted. Heard of jaundice, and what it does to a jaundiced persons view of things?

 

Peace out

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Islamic states have been publishing insulting cartoons about the jewish faith and the west for decades.....yet its aparently ok if they do it, what a load of rubbish

 

Peace Oronare!

 

About Jewish faith, I doubt it. Any proof to support your allegation?

 

About the west. may be.

 

Both these are nothing compared to the attack on the personality of Mohammed :D, who is cherished more than one's life.

 

Peace out

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Peace Oronare!

 

About Jewish faith, I doubt it. Any proof to support your allegation?

 

About the west. may be.

 

Both these are nothing compared to the attack on the personality of Mohammed :D, who is cherished more than one's life.

 

Peace out

errr...not quite, it should be rephrased whom muslims cherish more then their lives - that is the difference, the west does not put religion and religious prophets before peoples freedom and lives. Something I'm glad for :D

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errr...not quite, it should be rephrased whom muslims cherish more then their lives - that is the difference, the west does not put religion and religious prophets before peoples freedom and lives. Something I'm glad for :D

 

The difference between humans and the baser animals is that humans have been given a mind to think, set standards,abide by those standards, etc. Even some of the animals have standards.

 

When any society functions on the basis of self-preservation only, and does not care about religion, it is doomed. Only time is then the factor as to when the disaster will happen.

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oooh I guess we hit a dead block. See what I've picked up from some of the philosophy that I've learned so far is that happiness is the purpose of human life and following from that selfishness is the rational way for a human to operate. So far all rational minded human beings operate in their own interest whether they realize it or not. Look up Aristotles philosophy on the purpose of life and you'll see where I'm coming from.

 

I suppose we have a different idea of what constitutes a distaster as well. My view agains religion is based on its restriction of freedom, that much I've repeatedly made clear. Why is it that you believe a society functioning as a group of individuals operating in their own self interest can become a terrible thing? I've been living in such a society so far and it seems like paradise-->I'm from Canada.

 

P.S. When any society functions on the basis of religion only, we're all pretty much slaves :D If you believe in god, you may see being slave of god as a wonderful thing, as a non-believer I see it as me being enslaved by the irrational beliefs of others -->It is what I would like to avoid.

 

 

P.S.S. Though I am offended with your sentiment of equating western people with mindless animals, I still believe you have the right to say it. Welcome to the line of thought of the animals :D

Edited by 3dshocker

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Therein lies the main difference between Islamic culture and western culture. In the West, conflicting views or views that the majority doesnt like can be expressed freely.

 

that is not the case, although i can agree with you that you can disagree with something but defend someones right to say it, but that is not always the case, and one must be very careful as to what is supposedly deemed as 'freedom of speech', because the idea is way too broad, we dont have complete freedom of speech and probably never will, and for good reason. i cannot in a national newspaper for instance give a racist opinion about black people, or Asians for instance. and i'm glad we dont have that right to give that opinion, because it is offensive. and you may argue that something will always been deemed offensive by someone, ofcourse it will be, but lets be logical here,

"I think coca cola is the best beverage on earth", some crazy people somewhere might decide that for some reason they are offended, how dare i say that coca cola is better than lets say ...pepsi.
the fact u prefer coke and someone else prefers pepsi is hardly something large numbers of people are going to care too greatly about. but when a national newspaper decides to print cartoons of the prophet (pbuh) as a joke for everyone to laugh at, considering that 1. muslims would never in any way show pictures of any sort of what the prophet, or any prophets look like, and is prohibited in Islam. and 2. consideing the political tension between the west and Islam it seems a very stupid idea to then print pictures that were offensive to that group of people. and i have to say, i dont think the reaction would have been like this had the political situation been different. i've read worse things in national newspapers being said about Islam and the prophet and didnt even get anything like the response these cartoons received, because they were at a different time.

 

SO here you are, you either have free speech or you dont....who is going to legislate what is not offensive and what is? GOd right? hehe thankfully in the west we dont go by that ideology.

 

but there is legistlations restricting what we are free to say and what we're not free to say. for instance, racist or prejudice comments can send you to jail ... should a racist been given freedom to speak his ahtred for certain races because everyone has the right to free speech? even if it potentially harms not only individuals but also whole communities, and not only would be offensive to them, but these peoples hate speech wont be regarded by everyone as rubbish because not everyone is educated enough to think that what these people are saying is trash, and instead we end up with more idiots beleiving in what they beleive. so how much freedom of speech do we actually have? who decides it? and are we actually responsible about the effects of what our 'freedom of speech' actually carries along with it?

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Peace 3d!

 

oooh I guess we hit a dead block. See what I've picked up from some of the philosophy that I've learned so far is that happiness is the purpose of human life and following from that selfishness is the rational way for a human to operate. So far all rational minded human beings operate in their own interest whether they realize it or not. Look up Aristotles philosophy on the purpose of life and you'll see where I'm coming from.

 

Philosophers are humans. They can err in their philosophy and do. Freud is a typical example. I do not fit into his generalisation as I have more important things to live for and think. :D

 

I suppose we have a different idea of what constitutes a distaster as well. My view agains religion is based on its restriction of freedom, that much I've repeatedly made clear. Why is it that you believe a society functioning as a group of individuals operating in their own self interest can become a terrible thing? I've been living in such a society so far and it seems like paradise-->I'm from Canada.

 

Do you want paradise in this world for the 60 or so years, and then scorching fire to eternity, or a trying life here with an eternal abode in Heaven? I have opted for the latter after having a lot of freedom. The choice is yours.

 

P.S. When any society functions on the basis of religion only, we're all pretty much slaves :D If you believe in god, you may see being slave of god as a wonderful thing, as a non-believer I see it as me being enslaved by the irrational beliefs of others -->It is what I would like to avoid.

 

First thing that you need to sit back and think is, who made you, and for what purpose. This is a very serious issue, so think with an open mind. Look around you at the Universe, the animals, the rain, plants, everything. Do you believe everything just happened, and is functioning without the organisation of something unusually meticulous.

 

If such a thing exists, don't you agree that youa re taking a bib risk when you face it with nothing to show, except a free life where you may have transgressed.

 

P.S.S. Though I am offended with your sentiment of equating western people with mindless animals, I still believe you have the right to say it. Welcome to the line of thought of the animals :D

 

I did not equate anybody, or western people particularly, with baser animals. My statement is reproduced for ease of reference to show what I said, and that your getting offended is incorrect:

 

The difference between humans and the baser animals is that humans have been given a mind to think, set standards,abide by those standards, etc. Even some of the animals have standards.

 

Peace out

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Peace Lee!

We are talking about wives in the west. Every man considers success in adultery and fornication a feather in the cap, hence every woman is flesh for him to get. I am not talking about after she leaves you. The result of a guilty relationship is divorce. There is no punishment. That is why the number of divorces is high in the west.

 

 

You obviously have no idea wht you are talking about. Many men consider adultery to be horrible act, but only because it hurts the one you are married to. And what punishment do you reccomend. If my wife were to commit adultery, would it be better if I garrote her, or divorce her, or forgiver her? If you are lamenting the fact we can onl do the latter two, you my friend, are a nutcase.

 

 

LOL. Ignorance makes a person say really funny stuff

 

 

I know, you Mulims are a laugh riot! Or is that a cartoon riot....

 

You don't even know the function of an Imam

 

His function is to teach the word of the prophet to his community. Thus, he can say what he wants, convince his people the Prophet wants them to suicide bomb an Jewish family, and no-one can argue. Tell me, how many people argue the decisions of the Ayatollahs?

 

how would you even know his commitments? You look at it from a purely materialistic point of view, hence everything is tainted. Heard of jaundice, and what it does to a jaundiced persons view of things?

 

Peace out

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First of all, are we then agreeing that Islam gave rights to women 1400 years ago, and that it gives them more rights than the west?

 

Yes, Islam granted women some rights 1400 years ago. They were neither the first to give them these rights nor are the rights they were given more than they currently enjoy in the West.

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but there is legistlations restricting what we are free to say and what we're not free to say. for instance, racist or prejudice comments can send you to jail ...

 

I do not know where you got this? At least Canada I can vouch for that this is absolutely false. Rascist and prejudiced comments are completely legal amongst civilians. I have said so many rascist things about ppl of different backgrounds in my lifetime. Well, I always say it with a mix of humour, for example how cheap brown people are. You cannot be sued or put in jail for rascist comments as a civilian. However, within private institutions, such comments are prohibited, if you say it then - you will be charged for violating the prohibitions and may face a fine but never jail time. Further more ppl in positions of power whether it be government or private are also not allowed use a rascist basis to fire or discriminate against employees. They may be fined for it, or forced to take back the employee.

 

Where did you get the idea ppl can go to jail in the west for rascist or prejudiced comments?

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They were neither the first to give them these rights nor are the rights they were given more than they currently enjoy in the West.

Not true.

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Peace fluffysteve!

 

That is a purely materialistic approach. All atheists who die as atheists will end up in Hell for that approach.

 

influenced as i am by the society around me, hell is all fire and brimstone. at least it wont be cold.

 

Look around you, there are ten of thousands of proofs of the Creator.

 

*looks around me*

 

nope. no proof of The Creator.

 

When you realise that the Creator exists, then you will begin to appreciate that all Laws attributed to Him from reliable sources are His.

 

Until then.......

 

...it'll be a while :D

 

seriously though, as you correctly point out - im taking a logical approach to these notions. if you cant prove something then it cannot be logically believed in. therefore, all religion, Islam included, is not logical.

 

doesnt mean its not a bad thing -probably is- human beings are not necessarily always logical. so false belief is inevitable.

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They were neither the first to give them these rights nor are the rights they were given more than they currently enjoy in the West.

 

 

Not true.

 

Which part do you not believe is true, and what evidence do you have to back it up?

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I do not know where you got this? At least Canada I can vouch for that this is absolutely false. Rascist and prejudiced comments are completely legal amongst civilians. I have said so many rascist things about ppl of different backgrounds in my lifetime. Well, I always say it with a mix of humour, for example how cheap brown people are. You cannot be sued or put in jail for rascist comments as a civilian. However, within private institutions, such comments are prohibited, if you say it then - you will be charged for violating the prohibitions and may face a fine but never jail time. Further more ppl in positions of power whether it be government or private are also not allowed use a rascist basis to fire or discriminate against employees. They may be fined for it, or forced to take back the employee.

 

Where did you get the idea ppl can go to jail in the west for rascist or prejudiced comments?

 

where did i get this idea?

 

from living in the west. jokes aside, racist comments which cause harm or as the case with the BNP, where it can incite hatred and violence, is illegal, i never meant if i was to make a joke about an Asian i'd be put in jail, but if i was a member of the BNP and was inciting hatred towards other races then i would be looking at legala ction against me like the BNP leader has had against him. Therefore all those BNp members dont have the freedom in order to express their opinions of hate publicly. so how can you say we all have the right to freedom of speech when certain sections of society clearly dont, and shouldnt have.

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all belief systems are fascistic. the human rights one we christians have devised is the same but its a lot more user friendly than Islam imo

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Not true.

 

Which part do you not believe is true, and what evidence do you have to back it up?

 

 

it is lame to ask for evidence for ones personal opinion

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all belief systems are fascistic. the human rights one we christians have devised is the same but its a lot more user friendly than Islam imo

 

Peace the_almighty!

 

To say that all belief systems are fascistic, you immediately bring down your Creator to the level of humans. Humans can be fascisits, He can't. He created, and hence deserves the authority to dictate.

 

It is also incorrect to say that man-made laws are better and are not fascistic. Even the most advanced country does not have equality. Islam however teaches equality and makes the true believers observe it. Go to any Masjid and see the Muslims standing shoulder to shoulder to see what equality is all about.

 

Peace out

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Peace the_almighty!

 

To say that all belief systems are fascistic, you immediately bring down your Creator to the level of humans. Humans can be fascisits, He can't. He created, and hence deserves the authority to dictate.

 

It is also incorrect to say that man-made laws are better and are not fascistic. Even the most advanced country does not have equality. Islam however teaches equality and makes the true believers observe it. Go to any Masjid and see the Muslims standing shoulder to shoulder to see what equality is all about.

 

Peace out

 

Equality among Muslims, yes, but not equality between Muslims and non-muslims. That's like saying " Go to Apartheid South Africa and look at those White men standing shoulder to shoulder. That's equality!!!"

 

I'll see Islam as a religion of equality when I see Muslims treat Kafirs the same as they treat fellow Muslims.

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Allah says in the Qur'an

 

Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you from your Lord is the truth, be like him who is blind But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed 13:19

 

Is he whom We have promised an excellent promise -- which he will find true -- like him whom We have made to enjoy the luxuries of the life of the world, then on the Day of Resurrection, he will be among those brought up 28:61

 

Is then he who is a believer like him who is rebellious Not equal are they. As for those who believe and do righteous good deeds, for them are Gardens of Abode as an entertainment for what they used to do. And as for those who rebel, their abode will be the Fire, every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be put back thereto, and it will be said to them: "Taste you the torment of the Fire which you used to deny.'' And verily, We will make them taste of the near lighter torment prior to the greater torment, in order that they may return. And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayat of his Lord, then turns aside therefrom Verily, We shall exact retribution from the criminals. 32:18-22

 

Not alike are the blind and the seeing. Nor are (depths of) darkness and light. Nor are the shade and the sun's heat. Nor are the living and the dead. Verily, Allah makes whom He wills to hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves. You are only a warner. Verily, We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them. And if they deny you, those before them also denied. Their Messengers came to them with clear signs, and with the Scriptures, and with the Book giving light. Then I took hold of those who disbelieved, and how terrible was My denial!) 35:19-26

 

Is one who is obedient to Allah, Ana'a Al-Layl prostrating and standing fearing the Hereafter and hoping for the mercy of his Lord Say: "Are those who know equal to those who know not'' It is only men of understanding who will remember 39:9

 

----------------------------------------

 

 

Muslims give rights to the kuffar and they can not be compared to SA

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Go to any Masjid and see the Muslims standing shoulder to shoulder to see what equality is all about.

 

Which part of the Masjid? The womens only part or the mens only part?

 

it is lame to ask for evidence for ones personal opinion

 

I was not talking about opinion, I was talking about fact.

 

The question was about womens rights, not anyones opinion about womens rights. Women either have certain rights or they don't, and they either had the rights before or they didn't.

 

So, it is perfectly legitimate for me to ask someone to back up the facts.

 

 

Muslims give rights to the kuffar and they can not be compared to SA

 

Who has more rights, a Muslim in the USA or a kuffar under Sharia?

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So, it is perfectly legitimate for me to ask someone to back up the facts.

Who has more rights, a Muslim in the USA or a kuffar under Sharia?

 

I can say honestly, myself being an american muslim. Muslims have no rights in america. You lot can go on about this and that however you've never walked in my shoes. You never tried to go through the airport with my passport. You never spoken to any of the hundreds of muslims in american jails. Freedom and democracy in america is a farce.

 

The Kuffar are given rights in Islam, both the Qur'an and Sunnah support this, as does history.

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Muslims have no rights in america.

 

That is a load of crap and you know it.

 

No, I have never tried to go through the airport with you, but I have travelled extensively with my Muslim friend (in fact his last name is Islam) and we have never had any issues.

 

Muslims in jail? Have you discussed with them why they are in jail? I would be willing to bet it is because they broke the law, not because they were Muslim. Don't use your religion as a scapegoat.

 

Yes, kuffar are given certain rights under Sharia, but many are also taken away. Can you name one law on the books in America that even mention Islam?

 

There are Muslims politicians in America. Would there be Hindu politicians under Sharia?

 

The law in America makes no difference between religions, does it under Sharia?

 

So please, to even compare Sharia religious freedom to American religious freedom is a joke. In America there is no debate as to whether someone should be executed for changing their religion.

 

I understand that Muslims would be happier under Sharia, but do not give us the lame argument that non-Muslims would not be second class citizens in such a state. It is not true.

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I can say honestly, myself being an american muslim. Muslims have no rights in america. You lot can go on about this and that however you've never walked in my shoes. You never tried to go through the airport with my passport. You never spoken to any of the hundreds of muslims in american jails. Freedom and democracy in america is a farce.

 

The Kuffar are given rights in Islam, both the Qur'an and Sunnah support this, as does history.

 

 

So you've never been allowed to eat in a restaurant with others of different races/religions, you are not allowed to vote, you're not given representation when you commit a crime, you don't have the right to free speech...

 

, my friend.

 

And most of the hundreds of Muslims in american jails only convert once behind bars. Nation of Islam ring a bell? Young, angry criminals... become Muslims! :D

 

(edited by amani)

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