Jump to content
Islamic Forum
Sign in to follow this  
3dshocker

@ The Muslim Majority

Recommended Posts

kk, so I've been on this forum for a while now and some of you seem alright, and most of you -assuming I understand you guys correctly - condemn any form of extremist action like killing civilians etc.

 

There is alot of muslim bombings, killings, rapings, beheadings on national television, going on in the middle east and several areas of the world in areas with a large number of muslims.

 

Now then, granted that it is always the minority of a population that engages in criminal activity, I think I can safely say it's the minority of muslims that are doing these type of things. ok then.

 

The majority does not approve of it.

 

Naturally another minority of muslims actually fight the good fight against muslim extremists.

 

As for the majority, the majority of muslims seem indifferent towards crimes committed by muslims against non muslims. For several decades muslim extremists have been attacking non muslim civilians. See, killing soldiers and politicians I can understand as acts of war but I never approve of civilian murder and this is a two way street. You don't kill civilians, and you don't justify killing civilians with killing civilians either. (this [at] zuki considering how you're most likely to respond)

 

example-->

 

World trade centre killed a couple of thousand civilians on the spot. Only a minority of muslims actually do something about it - another minority are in support of it and the majority are indifferent.

 

nother more recent example-->

 

I saw a video of a protest in london against the muhammad cartoons. Ppl were shouting dont insult the prophet and the majority of the protestors joined in on this. The man leading one of the chants started chanting "Osama is great", something like "bomb denmark", and "7/7 is on its way!" --- at this point a small group of people were still chanting with him while the rest remained silent.

 

My question is why do the majority of muslims not care enough to do something about this? It's happening all over the world. Crimes are committed against non muslim civilians by muslim extremists and the muslim majority does not approve of these crimes yet they are unwilling to take a step forward and protest against the extremists and to protect the victims of the extremists?

 

Or is it just that the majority of muslims do not care enough about the life and dignity of a non muslim to protect him and fight against those that would kill him?

Edited by 3dshocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

:D

 

me the most likely? mate , theyre gonna come at you like hornets! :D

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

oh well. unsheath the sword. just dont get long winded on me 3d. :D

 

 

.

You don't kill civilians, and you don't justify killing civilians with killing civilians either.

 

 

unfortunately an accepted method of modern warfare. used to horrorfying effect in your civil war. that was one of the first cases of purposefull targeting of civilians in modern history. the us has used it ever since. you cant accuse other peoples of barborism if you are doing it too. or even instigating it.

 

what is an extremist? its an easy word to throw around. if i was a palestinian id be EXTREMELY unhappy with israel. if i was an iraqi or an afgahn, id be EXTREMELY unhappy with america. if i was an american in ww11, after pearl harbour, id be EXTREMELY unhappy with the japs. perhaps even nuke em!

 

people react in EXTREME ways when confronted by attack or insult. you can not understand, if you never try and put yourself in their shoes, and think of ALL the things involved.

 

:D

Edited by zukiful

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not attacking the extremists at all zuki, it goes without saying that extremists are the product of a very uneducated society. Meh, screw education, its the the lack of access to a wide range of philosophy that lets ppl become stupid enough to engage in hostile action. Anyone who bothers to delv into philosophy at the least bit will discover the futility of violence as it causes more problems then it soves --> the exception being genocide.

 

This is not an attack on extremists, it's an attack on the so called peace loving muslim majority that is willing to remain idle in the face of crimes committed by their own fellow muslims.

 

Here in the west (I'm gonna use university students and professors as it is the where the best of the intelligent comes from within a society) most of the people of my age and professors and teachers in general condemn several actions of the the U.S. You will find the majority of the white community actively criticising against rascism by whites, you will find the majority of the black community fighting against violence and crime amongst blacks. Infact we just had one start in my own city of Toronto recently. You will find a large chunk of americans actively campaigning against the wars they have believed to be unjust -- remember vietnam?

 

Over here we actually have people willing to fight for the rights and welfare of those not related to them by race or religion.

Stuff like the "free tibet" movement.

Environmentalist,

Human rights organisations,

Missonaries constantly helping war torn areas by providing relief

 

 

There is no mirror image of this in the middle east and muslim dominated areas. As I've said, this is not an attack on extremists, it is an attack on those of the muslim majority who dissaprove of it yet sit idly by and watch it happen while doing nothing to stop it.

 

I think in religion they refer to this as the greatest evil--> the indifference of good men.

 

P.S. zuki, I understand in more ways then you can imagine. I'm from Sri Lanka and lets just say I can relate to the palestinians on ALOT of things.

Edited by 3dshocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

I'm not attacking the extremists at all zuki, it goes without saying that extremists are the product of a very uneducated society. Meh, screw education, its the the lack of access to a wide range of philosophy that lets ppl become stupid enough to engage in hostile action. Anyone who bothers to delv into philosophy at the least bit will discover the futility of violence as it causes more problems then it soves --> the exception being genocide

 

you are suggesting muslims turn the other cheek. i dont think they should. muslims fight back, with sticks and stone, if thats all they have. you gotta respect them for that.

i dont believe in giving up. perhaps thats the aussie in me. but its an admirable trait. perhaps this is where we agree to dissagree.

 

 

Over here we actually have people willing to fight for the rights and welfare of those not related to them by race or religion.

Stuff like the "free tibet" movement.

Environmentalist,

Human rights organisations,

Missonaries constantly helping war torn areas by providing relief

[

quote]There is no mirror image of this in the middle east and muslim dominated areas. As I've said, this is not an attack on extremists, it is an attack on those of the muslim majority who dissaprove of it yet sit idly by and watch it happen while doing nothing to stop it.

 

 

 

muslims are too busy looking after their own downtrodden. the wealth of their countries have been raped and despots, given power by the west have corrupted their social and other infrastructures. its easy to be generous with money and sympathy, if you have excess of them. the muslims sympathy goes out to their brothers and sisters in war torn invaded countries. theres not much left over for human rights in china.

 

 

dont know why the quotes dont white out. tried twice.

 

 

 

:D

Edited by zukiful

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or is it just that the majority of muslims do not care enough about the life and dignity of a non muslim to protect him and fight against those that would kill him?

 

This is is the question I'm trying to get answered zuki, what is your answer to it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

there are muslims in foreign armies that do exactly that.

 

im sure history is littered with battles where muslims have defended someone whom was not muslim.

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not refering to historical battles nor armies as that is not reference to the majority. I'm talking about the people. Why is it that the majority of muslim people aren't doing anything against extremist actions against non muslims.

 

If you need an example, take note of protests over recent decades against white supremcaists and their affiliates by the majority of white people-->People actually doing something about extremism in their community. Why is there no mirror image in the muslim community?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

mate. ive explained it to you. muslims wont turn the other cheek. they get oppressed or invaded, retaliate and form a resistance, and fight back in kind, and muslim brothers all over the world will support them. as do western countries with eachother. sure there are malcontents, but they arent woven together with the same brotherhood and moral fabric.

 

that is your answer. the majority agree with fighting back. as it should be.

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has nothing to do with turning the other cheek. I don't think you even understand what I'm trying to communicate so I'll break it down for you.

 

There are two countries at war, one with a race of people called A, and the other with a race of people called B.

 

The soldiers of A and the soldiers of B targeting enemy soldiers and politiicians is a justified part of war.

 

Within A and B there are soldiers who really hate the other side.

 

That is some of the soldiers of A see all of B as the enemy and some of the soldiers of B see all of A as the enemy.

Lets call these extremist soldiers A prime's and B prime's as their objective is to kill any and all of the other side.

The B prime soldiers kill A and A prime soldiers, that is fine -- this is war

The B prime soldiers kill A politicians, that is fine --- this is war

The B prime soldiers kill A civilians, this is wrong --- this is genocide

 

The A prime soldiers kill B and B prime soldiers, that is fine -- this is war

The A prime soldiers kill B politicians, that is fine -- this is war

The A prime soldiers kill B civilians, this is wrong -- this is genocide

 

The majority of B's civilians do not approve of the actions of B prime soldiers, regardless of the way the B civilians are targeted by A prime soldiers. It takes quite a bit of maturity to get to this stage of mentality. The majority of B civilians are fighting for the rights of A civilians-->Wherever a B prime soldier kills an A civilian, the B civilians demand punishment for that soldier.

 

The majority of A's civilians do not approve of the actions of A prime soldiers, regardless of the way the A civilians are targeted by B prime soldiers. It takes quite a bit of maturity to get to this stage of mentality. The majority of A civilians do nothing as A prime soldiers kill B civilians.

 

I see the A civilians as the majority of muslims in particular from the middle east. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Edited by 3dshocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

im not even going to read that waffle. if you cant make a point in two sentences, become a beaurocrat.

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

and after re reading your original post, your questions were answered. do you think comparing your first post to your last, that your question has morphed?

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if you cant make a point in two sentences, become a beaurocrat.

if you can't comprehend a point over two sentences, don't bother getting involved into complex issues.

 

I'm gonna wait till someone more intelligible responds to what I've said and actually addresses what I'm asking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

your questions metamorphasize when you dont get the answer you want. your original post was answered. you are now twisting the questions to avoid answers already given.

 

give me your question in one or two sentences, or a yes or no question.

 

i can do that with your first post. why cant you do it at all?

 

stop squirming. ask the simple question. all questions are simple. just people like to complicate them for their own ends. i wont stand for it. give it to me straight!

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the cold hard truth is that muslims will not fight other muslims that are oppressing because theyre muslims, and in the end if the people being oppressed are unbelievers then its their fault, its Allah's curse on them, let them be opressed.

 

The reality of Islamic jihad as waged by oppressive imperialistic muslim empires such as the ottomans is this:

Can't you just see it? Millions upon millions of horny, repressed Shahids desparate to see battle so that there will be a chance that they will finally get laid, in this life (taking women as concubines/slaves) or the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the cold hard truth is that muslims will not fight other muslims that are oppressing because theyre muslims, and in the end if the people being oppressed are unbelievers then its their fault, its Allah's curse on them, let them be opressed.

 

If that is the case then I have no further inquiry into Islam as I pretty much reject it. Would like to get verification of this from a muslim though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if youre looking for the pure Islamic answer thats not it. thats just the hard reality.

 

Islam actually teaches muslims to aid other muslims when they opress. when a muslim is the opressor , a good muslim should "aid" him by preventing him from commiting further oppression. But many view the verse (I believe its hadith not quran) as not strong enough incentive for muslims to step up and stop their fellow muslims who are oppressors. The quran also makes it unlawful for a muslim to shed other muslim blood especially, so muslims are reluctant to do more than simple verbal protests and hope that their opressing brother stops. Few if any would actually take up a sword to kill a muslim that is opressing non-muslims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the cold hard truth is that muslims will not fight other muslims that are oppressing because theyre muslims, and in the end if the people being oppressed are unbelievers then its their fault, its Allah's curse on them, let them be opressed.

 

The reality of Islamic jihad as waged by oppressive imperialistic muslim empires such as the ottomans is this:

Can't you just see it? Millions upon millions of horny, repressed Shahids desparate to see battle so that there will be a chance that they will finally get laid, in this life (taking women as concubines/slaves) or the next.

 

This is a very biased and unfair comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allow me to ask you: what do you want unarmed, un-supported and unheard civilians to do? Protest? Sure they have, but in vein until protesting became pointless, not to mention dangerous as governments in the Middle East do not allow "unauthorized" protests (even if peaceful) and they usually do not give any authorization for a protest against something they actually helped to start (most governments in the Middle East do not represent the people, not to mention that the people have no say in them).

 

Create civil organizations? Again, you have to get an authorization and if you get too strong you are usually outlawed? Rebel? There you go again with another genocide, this time killing your own civilians? You shouldn’t forget that the fighters are the ones with the weapons.

 

And yet again, the matters in the Middle East are way too complex to request a simplistic solution. They are so complex you wouldn’t know where to start if you wanted to do something (as a layman I mean).

 

But I agree with you, the people in the Middle East, despite against genocides and targeting of civilians, are too unorganized to do anything – every action is on an extremely personal level that it 1. has little affect, if any, and 2. never gets to reach the headlines of the media – who cares if a single person says something!

 

Since one should admit one's own faults, I do admit that too many people say: "O.K., I agree with you, you go ahead and do something and I will support you." Consequently, nothing really happens because everyone wants someone else to start. It's not easy to admit, but most people are too weak to even follow. That is not in line with Islam, I know, but it's the cold hard truth not what Anthony mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

The reality of Islamic jihad as waged by oppressive imperialistic muslim empires such as the ottomans is this:

Can't you just see it? Millions upon millions of horny, repressed Shahids desparate to see battle so that there will be a chance that they will finally get laid, in this life (taking women as concubines/slaves) or the next.

 

anthony. youve got a mental problem, the above post is inflamatory and sick. it has no basis of fact and is nothing more than a thinly diguised slur. if i was admin, you would have some "shock treatment" for what it is that ails you.

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Allow me to ask you: what do you want unarmed, un-supported and unheard civilians to do? Protest? Sure they have, but in vein until protesting became pointless, not to mention dangerous as governments in the Middle East do not allow "unauthorized" protests (even if peaceful) and they usually do not give any authorization for a protest against something they actually helped to start (most governments in the Middle East do not represent the people, not to mention that the people have no say in them).

 

Create civil organizations? Again, you have to get an authorization and if you get too strong you are usually outlawed? Rebel? There you go again with another genocide, this time killing your own civilians? You shouldn’t forget that the fighters are the ones with the weapons.

 

And yet again, the matters in the Middle East are way too complex to request a simplistic solution. They are so complex you wouldn’t know where to start if you wanted to do something (as a layman I mean).

 

But I agree with you, the people in the Middle East, despite against genocides and targeting of civilians, are too unorganized to do anything – every action is on an extremely personal level that it 1. has little affect, if any, and 2. never gets to reach the headlines of the media – who cares if a single person says something!

 

Since one should admit one's own faults, I do admit that too many people say: "O.K., I agree with you, you go ahead and do something and I will support you." Consequently, nothing really happens because everyone wants someone else to start. It's not easy to admit, but most people are too weak to even follow. That is not in line with Islam, I know, but it's the cold hard truth not what Anthony mentioned.

My solution is simple enough, a really bloody revolution is what the middle east needs. Remember France?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

 

 

My solution is simple enough, a really bloody revolution is what the middle east needs. Remember France?

 

 

3d. you are a zionist.

 

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This has nothing to do with turning the other cheek. I don't think you even understand what I'm trying to communicate so I'll break it down for you.

 

There are two countries at war, one with a race of people called A, and the other with a race of people called B.

 

The soldiers of A and the soldiers of B targeting enemy soldiers and politiicians is a justified part of war.

 

Within A and B there are soldiers who really hate the other side.

 

That is some of the soldiers of A see all of B as the enemy and some of the soldiers of B see all of A as the enemy.

Lets call these extremist soldiers A prime's and B prime's as their objective is to kill any and all of the other side.

The B prime soldiers kill A and A prime soldiers, that is fine -- this is war

The B prime soldiers kill A politicians, that is fine --- this is war

The B prime soldiers kill A civilians, this is wrong --- this is genocide

 

The A prime soldiers kill B and B prime soldiers, that is fine -- this is war

The A prime soldiers kill B politicians, that is fine -- this is war

The A prime soldiers kill B civilians, this is wrong -- this is genocide

 

The majority of B's civilians do not approve of the actions of B prime soldiers, regardless of the way the B civilians are targeted by A prime soldiers. It takes quite a bit of maturity to get to this stage of mentality. The majority of B civilians are fighting for the rights of A civilians-->Wherever a B prime soldier kills an A civilian, the B civilians demand punishment for that soldier.

 

The majority of A's civilians do not approve of the actions of A prime soldiers, regardless of the way the A civilians are targeted by B prime soldiers. It takes quite a bit of maturity to get to this stage of mentality. The majority of A civilians do nothing as A prime soldiers kill B civilians.

 

I see the A civilians as the majority of muslims in particular from the middle east. Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

 

Consider the fallowing my friend. :D

Palestine is not legally alowed to have an army! That means they can't have soldiers, which means they cann't fallow ur example. Now who made this rule? Thats right, Isreal made the rule. Or take point B, Iran can't have nuclear weapons, but if it goes to a country that has nuclear wapeons, that country is allowed to use its nuclear weapons, because it already has them. Do u understand the logic behind this all? Do u see the IRONY of it all?

 

The fact that I can beat u with a stick, but when u pick up a stick to beat me. I can say, WAIT! U can't have a stick. It's not leagal for u to have a stick, put it down. And defend ur self with ur hands, no guns or ammo. :D

Edited by AhQee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My solution is simple enough, a really bloody revolution is what the middle east needs. Remember France?

 

Exactly, and even after the revolution the new government did not prove to be much better - only the names and faces changed, after a few more revolutions and almost 100 years (I cant be exact, I never actually memorized French history) did things start to fall in place.

 

I don't believe that a lot of people would be very enthusiastic about such a revolution. Civil war is much harder on citizens than a traditional war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×