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desertdweller

Bhudda Statues

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wayakum dear brother ^_^ masha'Allah

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:D / Peace to all,

 

 

Please help me understand something here. We have two conflicting views coming from 2 prominent Islamic websites.

 

 

1) (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503543828"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503543828[/url] - Posted by me

 

2) www.Islam-qa(contact admin if its a beneficial link) - Posted by Sister Mujahada

 

Having said that, i prefer the posting by Sister Mujahada since it is well supported :D .

 

 

Sis Zabrina

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yes, going over the fatwa that you posted.... i dont see one ayah or one ahadith... ? (like many of Islamonlines fatwas)

 

Allahu alam

 

we as muslims are to follow the quran and sunnah... and in the fatwa i posted, there they are right before us all... is anyone (muslim) going to pass those up or disagree with them?

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Those 2 sites are often at odds it seems. Islamonline is typically more liberal, and Islam QA is typically more strict.

 

Real helpful :D

 

:D

AS

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Wow, who asked ANY of you non-Muslims about this? REALLY? I mean I've got this guy Anthony saying "don't b***" (which I am suprised hasn't been edited by a Moderator) then we have Stickyblackplastic (who thinks he knows about Islam and it's rulings) giving his opinion and calls Muslims cowardly and insecure for destroying Idols (inderectly calling Islam cowardly and insecure as well?) and sky posting something else which I didn't see (probably was something obscene or stupid as well since thezman edited it). Now this is Basic Islamic Discussions please leave your Non-Muslim dialogue on Political Front or General.

 

:D

 

:D

 

my thoughts exactly. thats what drives me nuts, non muslims come in here talking about Islam, when they dont practice it themselves, and throw foul language around. i come to this section to ask muslims

 

moving on :D sister muja for the posting, i knew there had to be something about this topic! there were probably more idols when Islam first started then today...we dont need silly legacies in a muslim country. i dont understand why Islamonline says it will give a bad image of Islam... :D we have the right to live our beliefs, and sometimes people wont agree with that..but the Qur'an and Sunnah have already made it clear. Some people will never be convinced about Islam.

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What I remember of the reason behind why some scholars criticized the action of destroying the idols in afghanistan is because they put it in to the scale of priority. a sclae we tend to neglect.

 

It is often that when scholars are criticized for giving a controversial ruling there is ignorance in the bases by which they made such ruling. Weighing the benefit is an important rule to be regarded in Islamic fiqh.

 

And so they saw in the case of Afghanistan in the early nineties that there were other benefits to protect which would be compromised with the destructions of the idols. this is contrary to saying that the scholars think it is alright, rather we should say they did not give it a priority over something else; live or death perhaps.

 

Our religion is wiser than we will ever be.

 

assalaamu alaykum,

 

the reason for the destruction of the idols was because dumb idol loving westerners kept wanting to go there to restore them. i believe it was a swedish delegation that proper made the taliban get angry and order their destruction.

 

i mean, there are starving people due to some of the worse sanctions the world has ever seen and people are coming to re-build statues instead of schools or providing food and medicine?

 

no idols, no idol loving dumb westerners coming to restore them when thousands of muslim kids are starving to death. there is your fiqh of priorities.

 

i support the destruction of the idols, this is the sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammad (saws). idol worship was not even encouraged by buddha, it comes much later in their religion.

 

who knows whether these statues would be worshipped in the future or not, better to destroy and have done with.

 

i would advise people to listen to the words of Sheikh Ali Al-timimi which are available in the audio section of Islamicawakening(contact admin if its a beneficial link) where he refute those muslims who misguidedly say this was not a permissable act.

 

assalaamu alaykum,

Daw'ud

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assalaamu alaykum,

 

the reason for the destruction of the idols was because dumb idol loving westerners kept wanting to go there to restore them. i believe it was a swedish delegation that proper made the taliban get angry and order their destruction.

 

i mean, there are starving people due to some of the worse sanctions the world has ever seen and people are coming to re-build statues instead of schools or providing food and medicine?

 

no idols, no idol loving dumb westerners coming to restore them when thousands of muslim kids are starving to death. there is your fiqh of priorities.

 

i support the destruction of the idols, this is the sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammad (saws). idol worship was not even encouraged by buddha, it comes much later in their religion.

 

who knows whether these statues would be worshipped in the future or not, better to destroy and have done with.

 

i would advise people to listen to the words of Sheikh Ali Al-timimi which are available in the audio section of Islamicawakening(contact admin if its a beneficial link) where he refute those muslims who misguidedly say this was not a permissable act.

 

assalaamu alaykum,

Daw'ud

 

 

 

"dumb" idol loving westerners eh? Could you be a little more closed-minded and intolerant of other faiths?

 

 

 

"i mean, there are starving people due to some of the worse sanctions the world has ever seen and people are coming to re-build statues instead of schools or providing food and medicine?"

 

Let me rephrase that:

 

there are starving people due to some of the worse sanctions the world has ever seen and people are complaining about some silly cartoons instead of schools or providing food and medicine?"

 

 

 

IF lets say hypothetically , "dumb" idol lovers take over arabia and 1.000 years from now there arent many muslims in Saudi arabia, what if the folks in power destroy the 2 holy Masjids because they're contrary to their religious beliefs.

Again that is purely hypothetical but im just giving u a taste of your own medicine.

 

 

Sheikh Ali Al-timimi he must be pretty "dumb", as you so elloquently put it.

Have a nice day.

Edited by anthony19832005

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When the Afghanistan statues were destroyed there were virtually no Buddhists in the country. Furthermore, these statues were never objects of worship since Buddhists consider their prophet Siddhartha Gautama as the discoverer of a way of life that extinguishes suffering but they do not worship him. According to the Buddhists, (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.buddhistinformation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/buddhist_attitude_to_god.htm"]Buddhism is unique amongst the religions of the world because it does not have any place for God in its soteriology.[/url] Therefore, these statues were depictions of a historical figure, but not idols.

 

Now when Islam came to Egypt, (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.ancientegypt.co.uk/temples/home.html"]statues and temples[/url] of the ancient Pharaohs and Egyptian gods were left intact and are still present. There is an inconsistency here. (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.Islam-online(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/English/Politics/2001/03/article10.shtml"]Islam Online[/url] is merely pointing out that the destruction of these statues is contrary to long-established Islamic practice.

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is merely pointing out that the destruction of these statues is contrary to long-established Islamic practice.

 

Mujahada already posted the Islamic rulings on such matters. IDOLS ARE TO BE DESTROYED. pure and simple. Why do you disagree when the proof has already been posted by mujahada sallahudeen and others.

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When the Afghanistan statues were destroyed there were virtually no Buddhists in the country.

 

So , theoretically a country with no muslims could insult mohammed / burn qur'an's etc etc without a problem or need for protest from muslims across the world?

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Dear Anthony,

 

I really fail to see how you came to these conclusions, based on what I wrote.

IDOLS ARE TO BE DESTROYED. pure and simple. Why do you disagree

 

As I posted, I disagree because these are not idols, since Buddhists did not worship them. They were merely ancient stones of no more moral significance than the ancient stones of Egypt, which survive to this day.

 

So , theoretically a country with no muslims could insult mohammed / burn qur'an's etc etc without a problem or need for protest from muslims across the world?

 

Help me out here. I said that it was a mistake to destroy some old statues of an ancient Nepalese philosopher, and it would be a mistake to destroy old statues of ancient Egyptian rulers. How, "theoretically", did you get from my statements to your conclusion?

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Dear Anthony,

 

I really fail to see how you came to these conclusions, based on what I wrote.

 

As I posted, I disagree because these are not idols, since Buddhists did not worship them. They were merely ancient stones of no more moral significance than the ancient stones of Egypt, which survive to this day.

Help me out here. I said that it was a mistake to destroy some old statues of an ancient Nepalese philosopher, and it would be a mistake to destroy old statues of ancient Egyptian rulers. How, "theoretically", did you get from my statements to your conclusion?

 

 

Thats true. Buhhdism is technically atheist.

 

So they weren't worshipping the statues as Gods, or religious figures.

 

What do you say now?!!

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what i say now? why the hell did the taliban destroy them then.

and #2, why do Islamic scholars justify and support the taliban's actions then?

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2 very good questions.

 

:D

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Salaams

 

With all respect to our prophets own action in destroying them in Mecca, of course we have a splendid example of how to treat pagan idols.

 

On the other hand, these Buddhist monuments were left behind in Afghanistan hundreds of years ago, rendering them valuable archeological sites. There was no threat of their presense inticing anyone to come worship them.

 

There was no neccecity in destroying them, but we have lost a source of historical study in seeing them destroyed.

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the Qur'an has the important parts of history recorded

 

*im sure someone is going to come twist my words on this post*

Edited by desertdweller

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Salamu Alaikum

 

I have a suggestion Brothers and Sisters, a fatwa has been given and we have all accepted it(thanks Abu Hajra), or should accept it, so to linger on this topic any longer will serve no purpose but to divide us and cause doubts. We shouldn't fatwa shop because we don't agree on the position of the fatwa. Idols are to be destroyed, plain and simple, there are hadiths and Qur'anic verses. Islam is for the worship of One God and the removal of false Gods. Bhudda Statues that are not being worshiped serve no archeaologic purpose nor religious purpose, might as well get rid of them. And not one Bhuddist raised their voice, if they don't care why should we.

 

Salamu Alaikum

Edited by alim_in_training

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Assalam o Ala Manitaba Al Huda

 

There was no neccecity in destroying them, but we have lost a source of historical study in seeing them destroyed.

 

If in any case there is no necessity to destroy something then there was also no need to keep it either... The Statue was a neglected, forgoten statue.

 

As for learning history from it, there are numerous signs in the world to take head from and learn about the history. The logical assumption that anything that could be a part of history should not be destoyed is fallacious as anything and everything impacts history. Hitler's regieme had one of the massive impact in history, that does not necessitate that anything to do with Swastika and alike should not be destroyed.

 

Finally, the argument that "There was no neccecity in destroying them, " is also flawed since the Statue is built in praise, and praise belongs to Allah Alone. If we were to say that it was not being worshiped, then how can we be sure that my 6th decendant wont worship it. Thus, that which sharia explicitely orders to be demolished should be demolished "provided it is done in an Islamic State that is following sharia". Obviously we cannot rampage into washington and destroy a statue there.. :D

 

But tomorrow if US decides to tear down white house, do you really think that people of Australia, Japan or Nigeria care even a bit about it?

 

Wassalam o Ala Manitaba Al Huda

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generations of muslims respected the right of the statues to exist.

 

one tin pot regeme tears down thousands of years of tolerance. the tin pot regeme lasted 2000 years less than the statues. and the statues will be remembered more fondly.

 

:D

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Salamu Alaikum

 

And Allah has existed way longer than both the statues and the regime. Allah is remembered better than the statues are ever going to be remembered. and for those sad souls that remember the statues more than they do of Allah, it is our responsiblity to get rid of those statues so that Allah is worshipped and not the statues. Allah doesn't need you or me, nor do these statues affect His greatness, but it would be better for us to get rid of these Statues that represent a false God, don't you think. We make think these are areachological wonders, but let us think for what they stand for? and what does Islam stand for?

 

Salamu Alaikum

Edited by alim_in_training

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the taliban did more to tarnish the image of Islam than anything i can think of. by your logic they tarnished Allah.

 

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by your logic they tarnished Allah.

 

i apologise brother alim in training. you did not suggest such logic.

 

 

 

:D

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