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Barayev

Chechen Mujahideen Blast Hamas Hypocrites!

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Source: Reuters

 

By Oliver Bullough

 

MOSCOW, March 3 (Reuters) - Chechnya's rebels slammed Hamas on Friday, saying leaders of the Palestinian group had given their blessing to the "murder of the Chechen people" by meeting top Russian officials.

 

The Islamist militant group, which swept to victory in Palestinian elections in January, visited Moscow in a bid to win support from a major foreign power since it is shunned as a terrorist group by israel and Washington.

 

Chechen separatist leaders said the group had sold out its principles, and showed itself as hungry for power as corrupt officials who governed the Palestinians before.

 

"We regret this decision of Hamas. In observing convention, the leaders of Hamas will squeeze the hand of the killers of 250,000 Muslims of Chechnya, among which are 42,000 Chechen children," said Movladi Udugov on Web site www.kavkazcenter.com.

 

Russian troops have fought for 11 years to crush Chechnya's separatists. Although fighting has waned, soldiers and police still die daily in clashes with rebels.

 

Udugov, who heads the rebels' information service, was using a casualty figure for the 11-year Chechen war several times higher than most estimates, although observers agree that savagery on both sides has killed thousands of civilians.

 

"Their chosen path could once again push the Islamic movement into a political dead end and ideological degeneration. In the end, Hamas risks becoming another Yasser Arafat," Udugov said, referring to the former Palestinian leader whose administration was widely criticised as corrupt.

 

Russia has said it will press Hamas to accept the "road map" which seeks to achieve israeli-Palestinian coexistence and says Hamas must recognise the israel and renounce violence.

 

Udugov, who represents the wing of the Chechen rebels that has conducted the worst attacks on civilians of the war, said Hamas was naive to think that the friendship of President Vladimir Putin could give the movement recognition.

 

"It is naive to expect that Putin's Russia can be some kind of political partner for the Palestinian people. It is not the communist party that now sits in the Kremlin, but people who have committed appalling crimes," he said.

 

Akhmed Zakayev, who lives in London and represents the separatists' less radical wing, said the visit showed that Hamas did not care about the cause of fellow Muslims in Chechnya.

 

"People justifying the murder of the Chechen people could in no way be seen as friends or comrades of the Chechens," he said in comments on another rebel Web site (www.chechenpress.info).

 

"What benefit could the Chechen leaders gain from contacts with a movement that with all its strength tries to establish contacts with the Chechens' deadliest enemies."

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PropellerAds

:D

 

they're just playing politics. iran is negotiating with the russians too. politics in a dirty game. especially world politics. imagine the dfficulties of western/eastern/mid east politics! :D

 

i wouldnt read too much into what this article says. it is much more complicated than that.

 

i dont pretend to understand. but i can see a tangled ball of string in front of me.

 

 

:D

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Ah my favourite word again - politics.

 

When some Arab and Muslim governments including Pakistan even thought about recognising israel , there was uproar. No-one said " its just politics".

 

When Hamas meet and shake hands with some who has murdered a quarter of the nation , someone who is responsible for thousands upon thousands of rapes against our sisters , someone who has virtually destroyed the whole country - then its just politics.

 

People need to realise Chechens are also MUSLIMS.

 

I know most people think Palestine is more important than Chechnya ( you can even tell that by just glancing at this forum , you hardly ever see anything about Chechnya) but that doesnt mean that the Chechens are expendable.

 

Until Muslims realise a Chechen life is as important as an Iraqi or Palestinian we're gonna continue to see this hypocrisy from Muslims

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:D

 

I know most people think Palestine is more important than Chechnya ( you can even tell that by just glancing at this forum , you hardly ever see anything about Chechnya) but that doesnt mean that the Chechens are expendable.

 

i agree that palestine is the reported issue. but that most likely has more to do with zionist media than the case for chechens.

 

i find it an interesting subject. one i know not enough about. you brother barayev, could take it apon yourself to educate us with articles and postings. im sure you will get a sympathetic audience.

 

its not that muslims are not concerned about chechnya. it is that it isnt in our face like israel is. there have been russian posters here taking about chechnya. they were pretty agressive towards the rebels.

 

it could be your thing here on this forum to educate us and defend the rebels against the slander from non muslims that will surely follow. more chechen posts please!

 

ill back you up! :D

 

:D

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i find it an interesting subject. one i know not enough about. you brother barayev, could take it apon yourself to educate us with articles and postings. im sure you will get a sympathetic audience.

 

its not that muslims are not concerned about chechnya. it is that it isnt in our face like israel is. there have been russian posters here taking about chechnya. they were pretty agressive towards the rebels.

 

it could be your thing here on this forum to educate us and defend the rebels against the slander from non muslims that will surely follow. more chechen posts please!

 

ill back you up! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

 

Jazakallah for your words however i dont think im gonna take you up on the offer.

 

Lol, i use to do that , post things about the Chcehen-Russia situation when i first joined the forum but no-one seemed to take notice of them so im not gonna waste my time again.

If people dont care , they dont care.

 

If you want to learn more you can go this site , its run by Chechens:

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.kavkaz.com.uk/eng/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.kavkaz.com.uk/eng/[/url]

 

Salam

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:D

 

brother barayev.

 

can you post an article outlining the cause and effect of the chechen conflict please?

 

:D

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This short article explains the situation and how the Chechens are fighting :

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.bigeye(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/012300.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.bigeye(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/012300.htm[/url]

 

 

These concetrate on just some of the crimes that Russians are comitting:

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,680130,00.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...,680130,00.html[/url]

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicawakening(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/viewarticle.php?articleID=499&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicawakening(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/viewarticl...?articleID=499&[/url]

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for a taste of the Chechen resolve an article by a Non-Muslim:

By Eric Margolis

 

From the burning ruins of Grozny came what may be a final, heartbreaking message from its Chechen defenders: `At a time when the world has left us entirely, we ask Muslims around the world not to forget the ordeal of their brothers in Chechnya fighting the jihad (holy war) against Russian oppression.'

 

Look at Grozny and you see a second Warsaw Ghetto. Like the valiant Jewish defenders who held off the might of the Nazi SS, Chechen, another forgotten people facing extermination, are fighting to the death against impossible odds.

 

I've been a combat soldier and have covered twelve high intensity wars from the front, but I have never seen anything that equals the heroism and boundless courage of the Chechen mujihadin. For the past four months, 5,000 lightly-armed Chechen warriors fighting on flat, open terrain that favors air, armor and artillery, have held 160,000 Russian troops, backed by regiments of heavy guns and rockets, helicopter gunships, ground attack aircraft, and thousands of tanks and armored vehicles. Russia's generals have repeatedly vowed to `exterminate' the Chechen. All Chechen males from 6 to 65 are being thrown into concentration camps.

 

Chechen mujihadin, most without any formal military training, have no heavy weapons and are chronically short of radios, anti-tank rockets and even small-arms ammunition. There is almost no medicine or morphine for their wounded, and no shelter from massive Russian bombardment that includes banned fuel air explosives, toxic gas, and napalm. If taken alive by the Russians, they will be first tortured, then executed. Chechnya is totally cut off from the outside world. Only a handful of Arab, Dagestani and Estonian `ansar,' or volunteers, have managed to slip into Chechnya to aid the struggle for independence. Many have been killed.

 

The bloody siege of Grozny - which Russian generals vowed to storm by early December, and Putin promised to take by New Year - still holds out at this writing. Mujihadin are defending every ruined building and mined street while some 40,000 civilians cower in cellars under non-stop Russian shelling. Still, overwhelming Russian numbers and fire power must eventually prevail. Losses are high on both sides – about one Chechen for every four Russians. How much longer can the surrounded Chechen, whose supplies are running out, continue their David v. Goliath struggle?

 

TBC>>>>

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Renowned Chechen field commanders, Sheiks Shamil Basayev and Ibn al-Khattab, admit Grozny has no strategic value, but insist `we want to prove to the world and the Russians that despite the size, power, or technology of any enemy, there is no way they could defeat the people of belief, principal, and land.' Brave words from the world's bravest people.

 

So 1.5 million Chechen defy 146 million Russians – as these Caucasian mountaineers have done for the past 250 years. The Chechens who today defend Grozny are the children of a nation that has three times nearly been exterminated by Russian genocide: in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, the last when Stalin had tens of thousands of Chechen shot and the remainder of the Chechen people deported to Siberian concentration camps.

 

In the First Chechen War, 1994-1996, Russia killed 100,000 Chechen civilians, razed much of the small country, and, in an act of monumental terrorism, scattered 17 million anti-personnel land mines across the tiny nation. Russia was driven from Chechnya in 1996, but its hardliners and communists vowed to `exterminate the Chechen bandits.' Their man Putin's first act was to declare a crusade - blessed by the Russian Orthodox Church- against Chechnya. Moscow demanded revenge for 1996 and Afghanistan.

 

While Russian troops fought their way into Grozny, elite Russian forces were pushing into the southern mountains. Chechen units are battling ferociously, under intense shelling and 2,000lb bombs, to defend the strategic Shatoi and Vedeno gorges. Outnumbered twenty to one, the Chechen's defence of passes vividly recalls the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae.

 

At least the mountainous terrain gives the mujihadin some cover; in the flat, barren north, mujihadin can only move at night. The Clinton Administration, which is largely financing Russia's genocide in Chechnya, supplied Russian attack helicopters with advanced US night-vision devices, `to combat terrorism,' says the White House. Clinton recently called for the `liberation' of Grozny' by Russia. Yet he cannot understand why so many Muslims see America as their enemy.

 

If the west's response to Russia's Mongol-like behavior in Chechnya has been shameful and hypocritical, the Islamic world's reaction is yet more disgraceful. Important Muslim nations, like Egypt, Malaysia, and Iran, are negotiating arms and aircraft deals with Russia. No Muslim state has dared challenge Russian brutality or anti-Muslim racism. The only nations to recognize Chechnya's declaration of independence from Russia are brave little Estonia, and Afghanistan, both of whom know full well the terror of Russian occupation. China, which oppresses its own Muslim peoples and Tibetans, loudly applauded Russia's final solution in the Caucasus.

 

Those who observe a monstrous crime and do nothing share guilt for it. We begin the 21st Century watching silently as a brutish Russia, which knows neither shame nor mercy, crushes the life out of a tiny but heroic people who refuse to bend their knees to Russian tyranny.

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:D

 

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.bigeye(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/012300.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.bigeye(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/012300.htm[/url]

 

 

(i dont know why i 'quoted' it!)

 

that is a powerful article. but what is the reason behind the conflict?

it was all part of the iron curtin. did they never get their independence?

is there oil there?

nuke power stations?

the russians must want something?

 

:D

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that is a powerful article. but what is the reason behind the conflict?

it was all part of the iron curtin. did they never get their independence?

is there oil there?

nuke power stations?

the russians must want something?

Salam

 

Its a long story so ill try to be brief.

 

After the break-up of the Soviet Union , Chcehnya declared independance in the early ninetie.

The Russians wouldnt accept this mainly for 2 reasons,

1) They felt if Chechnya was independant , it may encourage other countries in the region to rebel against Russian rule also.

2) Chechnya has important oil reserves and is strategically placed on route to the Caspian sea.

 

So in 1994 Russia decided to invade with about 60,000 troops. During the war the Russians destroyed much of the country but were defeated on August 6 1996 by about 5000 Mujahideen.

 

From 1996 to 1999 Chechnya had its hard earned independance.

But in 1999 Russia decided to invade again. Its reasons were that it accused some Chechen of helping a neighbouring country (Dagestan) rebel agains Russian rule and also at that time there were bomb attacks on Russian apartment blocks killing about 300 Russians. Russians blamed this on Chechens even though they had no proof and no Chechen claimed responsibility.

It came out after words that some locals actually caught the Russian secret service planting these bombs -most western writers agree that Chechens had nothing to do with the bombs.

 

From 1999 the war is continuing to this date. Chechnya started of with a population of one million. To this date 25% of the people have been killed including 40,000 children. Russia has even said that it considers everyone above the age of eight a "potential terrorist" so it justifies murdering children too.

 

Palestinians have supported Russia before. Yasser Arafat and the PLO supported Russia in killing Muslims. The PLO even condmened one of Chechnyas main commanders - Commander Khattab - for fighting in Chechnya and branded him a traitor.

 

The difference with Hamas is that everyone thought they were an Islamic group. No-one expected the betrayal from Hamas but unfortunately it has happened.

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:D

 

 

thanks for the rundown barayev.

 

OIL. i should have guessed.

 

i think the only people whom would benefit from the chechens falling out with hamas would be the russians. i think hamas would be on your side always. but they would be compromised in some fashion by politics so as not to be able to help the chechens.

 

hamas has their own problems. youve heard of the saying 'divide and conquer'. Islamic countriesare divided. it has been manufactured this way by the west.

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.radioislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Islam/english/jewishp/russia/rusolig.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.radioislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Islam/english/je...sia/rusolig.htm[/url] this article may provide an example of the people involved in russias oil decisions.......

 

 

 

:D

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let me think aloud. no offence meant

 

chechens wanna independence and russia don't wanna give way. hence the course they've (chechens) taken is to become suicide bombers and russians lose no time in crushing them. not a pretty scenario. it's much like israeli PALESTINIAN conflict

 

perhaps what chechens could do is to take the course taken by taiwan. they (taiwanese) strive to progress under china's nose. perhaps it's easier said that done. china leave taiwan to prosper on it's own while in chechnya the occupying power is russia. likewise in PALESTINE, israel is breathing down their (PALESTINIANS) neck with it's idf posts, billions worth of arms supplied by the us

 

perhaps saudi arabia being the most powerful in arab world could give chechnya a helping hand via diplomacy. saudi more often is a silent perhaps mousy superman :D

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chechens wanna independence and russia don't wanna give way. hence the course they've (chechens) taken is to become suicide bombers and russians lose no time in crushing them. not a pretty scenario. it's much like israeli PALESTINIAN conflict

 

 

Your analysis of the situation is so far off , i dont where to start.

 

 

perhaps what chechens could do is to take the course taken by taiwan. they (taiwanese) strive to progress under china's nose. perhaps it's easier said that done. china leave taiwan to prosper on it's own while in chechnya the occupying power is russia. likewise in PALESTINE, israel is breathing down their (PALESTINIANS) neck with it's idf posts, billions worth of arms supplied by the us

 

Chechnya is not like Palestine. There is a genocide going on even in villages and towns that offer no resistance.

There is no choice but to resist. Resistance has lead to victory before in the first war.

No Muslim country can ever lay down , its an OBLIGATION to fight the invaders and get them off your land.

 

perhaps saudi arabia being the most powerful in arab world could give chechnya a helping hand via diplomacy. saudi more often is a silent perhaps mousy superman

 

 

Saudi Arabia has already done what Hamas has done and actively supports Russia. There can be no help from them.

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i dont think the issue with the chechen-russian conflict is that people dont care, but rather that there is just not enough coverage on the situation, and in the west the only coverage we seem to receive is when the Chechans attack the Russians and never when it's the other way round. The problem seems to be that when a powerful country like russia, with a military, and weapons bombs and kills huge numbers of people in so called 'defence' it's deemed fine, especially when we never hear about the numbers that are actually being killed. however when 'rebel' groups in chechnya, without any sort of state recognition, not training, no recognized military set up tries to protect themselves and their people it's looked at and treated differently. I cannot agree with the way in which the chechyans have acted out towards the Russians, especially with regards to the school hostage taking. but when we as individuals actually understand the extent of human suffering that these people feel and suffer from then we begin to understand how desperate someone can become. and the fact that so little help is given tot he chechyan cause, nothing much in the media about their suffering, not even in muslim countries, or even among muslims in general.

 

it is a good idea however, to keep posts on chechnya going. perhaps not going too indepth, but basic info on the conflict would be good, as i dont think many people really know much about the situation.

 

As for hamas, i have to say i was suprised also, i thought russia would be one of the last countries the palestinian authority would be 'friendly' with, but as someone has already said, politics is a dirty game, and hamas need whatever help they can get if they are to maintain their political position and power in palestine, without sufficient aid and buisness from outside they wont get very far in improving the lives of their own people. everyone has their own agenda.

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:D

 

hamas has their own problems. youve heard of the saying 'divide and conquer'. Islamic countriesare divided. it has been manufactured this way by the west.

 

Offcourse you spin this around and try to make look like its the West's fault that hamas decided to suck up to the russian butchers.

HAMAS has a choice. ANd they clearly side with the killers of muslims, the russians. make no mistake about that. Its clear.

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:D

Offcourse you spin this around and try to make look like its the West's fault that hamas decided to suck up to the russian butchers.

 

whose fault is it iran is sucking up?

 

 

HAMAS has a choice. ANd they clearly side with the killers of muslims, the russians. make no mistake about that. Its clear.

 

i wish everything in life was a simple as you suggest.

 

:D

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Life is simple. Its humans who make it complicated.

 

 

If "JOHN" was massacring my brothers and sisters, i would NOT be friends with "JOHN" or do any type of deals or negotiations with him.

 

Substitute "Russia" for "John" and there u have it. CLear as daylight.

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:D

 

 

Life is simple. Its humans who make it complicated.

 

a rediculous statement. nature is of the most complicated.

 

 

 

If "JOHN" was massacring my brothers and sisters, i would NOT be friends with "JOHN" or do any type of deals or negotiations with him.

 

again oversimplified. what if he had your mother hostage also?

 

 

 

:D

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:D

 

now your shouting oversimplification. :D :D

 

:D

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Life is simple. Its humans who make it complicated.

 

 

If "JOHN" was massacring my brothers and sisters, i would NOT be friends with "JOHN" or do any type of deals or negotiations with him.

 

Substitute "Russia" for "John" and there u have it. CLear as daylight.

 

how old are you?!

 

lets take you 'john' idea as an example of how life is not so simple.... 'John' is massacring your brothers and sisters in another country, 'john' however, is a big political power, and 'john' offers you help in order to establish and regain your power in your own country, to enable you to actually do something for your own people, and perhaps in the future once you have enough power be able to do somethign also for those people that 'john' is massacring. and lets not forget, when you get all doors closed in your face, even when you got into power through 'democratic' elections that were supposedly supported by the west, until they realized they didnt like who actually got elected, thn at that stage you look to others to help you.

 

ofcourse just because in front of the media you play the politics game, shake hands with a few imbeciles, doesnt mean you agree with them, support them or would ever want to be friends with them. the idea that somehow Hamas, after all the years they've fought against occupation and the killing of their own people would then, begin to be 'friendly' and agree with another country that is doing exactly the same is pathetic. politics is a dirty game, and there is no political group or leader who hasnt played the game in order to better their peoples lives and ensure that they have enough support to stay in power and make a difference, does NOT mean they agree with what Russia is doing, and does NOT mean they're all buddy buddy with Russia now.

 

and life maybe simple, but the fact is it's us humans who live it, so if humans are the ones who make life difficult, it therefore means that life is not simple :D

 

good day :D

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Complicated indeed , and Hamas now rejects Al Queda , for similar reasons .

 

Another "complication "of life and politics .

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