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Adam Vs. Evolution

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In a nutshell,Evolution says we evolved from a single cell organism tracing the last ancestors from neandertals and the genus Homo.

Far fetched yes, it sounds that way but it's all we have.

 

Now religions clearly stand apart on this, I see people doubting if cavemen existed but they don't doubt that Adam was the first human. Allright, I can ignore the archeological evidance, carbon dating shmarbon dating...bla bla bla. :D

 

Since muslims , jews and christians all insist the same here..I must pay attention.

 

But if Adam was the first human than I must say the folllowing.

1. He must have no mother or father (or a belly button :D )

2.He was never a kid or had cable tv, wow 2 people on the planet, life must be boring.

3.He was not muslim, christian or Jew ( does he go to hell..wait didn't he eat the apple too..Adam Adam Adam.. :D )

4.His Kids must have had incest to start a population.

Wait let me stop here..Isn't incest a bad moral?

Please do come forward if you say incest is good ...

Now was that part of God's plan than How can incest be bad?

After all God doesn't change his mind , make mistakes or change rules.

Also wouldn't it make more sense if Adam had the revelations?

Maybe Both Darwin and thiests are saying the same thing and Adam was a monkey . :D

( no disrespect to Adam)

Now something doesn't make sense here ( besides me :D )

Holla Back.

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PropellerAds

Hi

Some misunderstandings about Islam

1.Unlike ALL the other religions in existence today "Islam" is not a description of a relgion or a way of life which is affilaited to a person(Christianity,Buddhism) or race(Judaism) or man made philiosophy(confucianism .taoism,communism ) or place(Hinduism) .Islam highlights the relationship between u and the creator ..it means "Submission".Muslim means "one who does Islam" ..so Indeed Adam and all the prophets were "Muslims" which means they were those who submitted to their creator

 

2.Every nation whom the messgae of creator was sent has a different set of laws due to the peculiar conditions they had to live in. Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masud and a group of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) related that inter-marriage of the male of one pregnancy with the female of another had been in practice among Aadam's children..

 

Also wouldn't it make more sense if Adam had the revelations?

sorry i dont understand what u mean

Edited by al-malabari

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Hi

Some misunderstandings about Islam

1.Unlike ALL the other religions in existence today "Islam" is not a description of a relgion or a way of life which is affilaited to a person(Christianity,Buddhism) or race(Judaism) or man made philiosophy(confucianism .taoism,communism ) or place(Hinduism) .Islam highlights the relationship between u and the creator ..it means "Submission".Muslim means "one who does Islam" ..so Indeed Adam and all the prophets were "Muslims" which means they were those who submitted to their creator

Bro how can adam be muslim without kalima and the other four pillars of Islam?How can he and people before the prophet believe in the prophethood if the prophet doesn't exist yet????

 

2.Every nation whom the messgae of creator was sent has a different set of laws due to the peculiar conditions they had to live in. Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masud and a group of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) related that inter-marriage of the male of one pregnancy with the female of another had been in practice among Aadam's children..

The question still remains unanswered..Adams direct family...his children not grand children but children must have had incest to populate the earth. This means that God willingly allowed incest than and it became forbidden later on.

 

sorry i dont understand what u mean

I mean why not send quran with Adam?.God must have known that without Quran the people will get lost...why than he waited till humans became savages before revealing quran?

I don't mean to raise this concern as an an attack but rather to fill myself in on the missing logic behind it.

Peace :D

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Bro how can adam be muslim without kalima and the other four pillars of Islam?How can he and people before the prophet believe in the prophethood if the prophet doesn't exist yet????

He beared witness to the fact that "there is none worthy of worship except the creator:" this is the essence of the "kalima" even today ..his people had to follow him in the religious affairs

The other laws are compartively minor and change according to the conditions and time of the people.

 

The question still remains unanswered..Adams direct family...his children not grand children but children must have had incest to populate the earth. This means that God willingly allowed incest than and it became forbidden later on.

i said:

Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masud and a group of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) related that inter-marriage of the male of one pregnancy with the female of another had been in practice among Aadam's children..

which means they intermarried from their brothers/sisters of a different birth ..this was their law ..details of the laws change from time ..but the core of it "to worship none but ur creator" stays the same in every age!

 

I mean why not send quran with Adam?.God must have known that without Quran the people will get lost...why than he waited till humans became savages before revealing quran?

I don't mean to raise this concern as an an attack but rather to fill myself in on the missing logic behind it.

During every era people were given guidance in the forms appropriate to them and we believe in all of them ..so when the people were misguided and started falling into idol worship and other vices messengers were sent to correct them. If most of them disbelieved they were punished with calamities ..there is archealogical evidence for this ..most societies which are buried or were suddenly destroyed were idol worshippers since remanants of idols can be found there!

Edited by al-malabari

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Hi llogical,

 

 

I'll try and address your questions to my best knowledge, which has been obtained from the study of many scholars. Do note that i'm merely a student.

 

 

1. He must have no mother or father (or a belly button :D )

 

Adam didn't have a mother nor a father. Just because humans are unable to grasp or comprehend such thing does not mean it is impossible. Do you believe atoms exist?

 

2.He was never a kid or had cable tv, wow 2 people on the planet, life must be boring.

 

Nor was he a child....err t.v is a new thing when comparing with the time humans have occupied Earth. 2 people may be boring.....but you can't know something you've never experienced.

 

3.He was not muslim, christian or Jew ( does he go to hell..wait didn't he eat the apple too..Adam Adam Adam.. :D )

 

Adam was Muslim, just as Abrahman, Jesus, Moses were all muslims, peace be upon them, for they believed in the existence of God. Adam repented for his sin and he was forgiven because God is oft-forgiving and merciful. Paradise is promised for the believers, who pay their alms, fast, pray obiedently. The same message were given to all the prophets (pbut).

 

 

4.His Kids must have had incest to start a population.

Wait let me stop here..Isn't incest a bad moral?

Please do come forward if you say incest is good ...

Now was that part of God's plan than How can incest be bad?

After all God doesn't change his mind , make mistakes or change rules.

Also wouldn't it make more sense if Adam had the revelations?

Maybe Both Darwin and thiests are saying the same thing and Adam was a monkey . :D

 

Adam and Eve had twins every time they gave birth, and each time a boy and a girl would be born. Each twins were brothers and sisters but the other set of twins were not considered 'brothers/sisters' and thus they intermarried increasing the offspring. Abel and Cain's story comes into this. Now it is possible that God made it so that each twins differed in their gene sequences as the children never suffered any side effect due to their relation. Anything is possible....

 

You should know that Evolution does not pose the theory that we came from monkeys, it is an incorrect statement. In order for Evolution to work with the creation story it'd mean that both humans and monkeys would have descended from Adam because he would be the common ancestor, which science has not yet been able to pin point. However, there is nothing that suggests that therefore your assumpition is weak.

 

Incest is wrong and it is stated in the Qur'an but for the case of Adam and his children, things were different. God knows best.

 

Regards,

 

Crystal Eyes

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omg, ppl still believe we all came from two initial humans?

and Fundamentalists and extremists still pray to god !

 

ps:i read this on an atheist website

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He beared witness to the fact that "there is none worthy of worship except the creator:" this is the essence of the "kalima" even today.

Bro..how can you even argue about this...Klaima isn't complete without "muhammad ur rasool Allah"

Now if Muhammad (sw) doesn't exists, the kalima doesn't exist, Islam, quran , muslims do not exist than HOW CAN ADAM BE MUSLIM? I might as well argue that Adam was a communist.

 

During every era people were given guidance in the forms appropriate to them and we believe in all of them ..so when the people were misguided and started falling into idol worship and other vices messengers were sent to correct them. If most of them disbelieved they were punished with calamities ..there is archealogical evidence for this

The point is...Adam had no Quran.

The prophets who came b4 SW had no Quran.

Why did God wait until things get out of hand to send Quran...did he not know that people will get misguided and reject prophets etc? why did it take god 4 tries before sending the ultimate revelation of all (Quran)?? And the archeological evidance u mention...the inference u make...I disagree.

I'll try and address your questions to my best knowledge, which has been obtained from the study of many scholars. Do note that i'm merely a student.

U don't have to answer every point I raise......cable tv?? come on you know it's nonsense.

about the point that I outlined in bold....

Twins , tripplets ...septeplets don't matter.My point is that If they had the same biological parents, they are brothers and sisters. If you have twin brothers and one that's not a twin, would you differentiate between them? probably not.

that's my point...

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Bro..how can you even argue about this...Klaima isn't complete without "muhammad ur rasool Allah"

Now if Muhammad (sw) doesn't exists, the kalima doesn't exist, Islam, quran , muslims do not exist than HOW CAN ADAM BE MUSLIM? I might as well argue that Adam was a communist.

I told u what a muslim means it means one who submits to the creator.Now tell me according to every "historical" source which mentions Adam ...did he not worship the creator alone-this is what a muslim means ...it has really nothing to do with muhamed saws as such ..he was nothing more than a warner and a bringer of good news .Affirming the message neccassiates affirming the prophethood .Hence all the prophets were muslims according to how muslims define themselves ..not how non-muslims define them

The point is...Adam had no Quran.

The prophets who came b4 SW had no Quran.

Yes ..so what ..they worshipped god alone which is the very essence of Islam ...which is the religion of all the prophets .

Why did God wait until things get out of hand to send Quran...did he not know that people will get misguided and reject prophets etc? why did it take god 4 tries before sending the ultimate revelation of all (Quran)??

I told u before God is not asked what he does ..u might understand some "why" of it ...but unless He tells u explicitly u cannot be sure .The revalations are send so that those who are sincere are guided ...It was not four "tries" ..there are many revleations to the prophets and they were all in different languages to different people in different time.

 

My point is that If they had the same biological parents, they are brothers and sisters. If you have twin brothers and one that's not a twin, would you differentiate between them? probably not.

that's my point...

Now u tell me ..why is incest wrong ?Nothing is wrong unless god tells u its wrong- u cannot solely use ur mind to judge because then everybody would have a different set of wrongs and rights ...they had special circumstances and thats what they did

And the archeological evidance u mention...the inference u make...I disagree.

U can disagree all u want ..take any civilazation which was buried or destroyed and study them in detail ...u will surely find them to be idol worshippers..this is why anthropologists say ancient humans were idol worshippers...but this is a fallcy since monotheism leaves no remanants like idols or pictures ..the Quran condemns making of idols and pictures of humand so does the Ten commandments

Edited by al-malabari

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Greetings,

 

Reason tells us that all of us living today descend from a single woman, and from a single man, (though evidence shows they lived 60,000 years apart).

 

Consider the following thought experiment. Gather all the humans living today and notice how each of them had a mother. Gather these mothers together, living and dead, into a set we'll call ...

 

Mothers (2006)

 

Now, each of these mothers had a mother, and so we can recursively define a new set.

 

Mothers^2 (2006) = Mothers of Mothers (2006)

 

Now notice that our new set MUST BE smaller than the old, unless no grandmother gave birth to two mothers, in which case they are exactly the same size. The new set CANNOT be larger than the old without forcing some mother to have two mothers of her own. Outside of the natural enquirer, I've never seen such a report.

 

As each of the mothers in Mothers^2 (2006) had a mother, who had a mother, who had a mother, we can define a chain of sets, and consider their sizes.

 

Mothers (2006) >= Mothers^2 (2006) >= ... >= Mothers^k (2006) >= ...

 

This sequence cannot continue decreasing indefinitely without assuming motherless mothers, so it must stop decreasing in some generation k. Either Mothers^k (2006) is a set with a single mother ... or none of the generations prior to this generation ever interbred. As we humans are all capable of interbreeding, Mothers^k (2006) must be a set with just one woman, a mother of us all. (Her mother is also a mother of us all, et seq.)

 

Similarly, there is a generation j, in which Fathers^j (2006), defined similarly, must consist of a single man, a father of us all.

 

Thanks for playing, 3dshocker.

 

:D

 

As ever, Jesse

 

ps. Note that this experiment can be run at any point in the past, yielding different answers depending on the starting point.

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I told u what a muslim means it means one who submits to the creator.Now tell me according to every "historical" source which mentions Adam ...did he not worship the creator alone-this is what a muslim means ...

Yes ..so what ..they worshipped god alone which is the very essence of Islam ...which is the religion of all the prophets .

Sorry but U make NO sense...No sense at all.

No disrespect but to argue over this is frustrating..

Chrsitians submit to God, Jews do it too, heck the Kalahari Bushmen submit to God, are they all muslims?

No One can be a muslim without Kalima, please confirm with a scholar before arguing.

 

U can disagree all u want ..take any civilazation which was buried or destroyed and study them in detail ...u will surely find them to be idol worshippers..this is why anthropologists say ancient humans were idol worshippers...but this is a fallcy since monotheism leaves no remanants like idols or pictures ..the Quran condemns making of idols and pictures of humand so does the Ten commandments

I would start by explaining the difference between data and information but this has nothing to do with topic at hand so I stop right here.

 

Now u tell me ..why is incest wrong ?Nothing is wrong unless god tells u its wrong- u cannot solely use ur mind to judge because then everybody would have a different set of wrongs and rights ...they had special circumstances and thats what they did

It's wrong because the kids come out retarded.

My point is how can it be wrong for us and not Adam?

Did god change his mind about this?

I thought I asked a simple question...

If only Allah knows than there is no point in saying anything about it.

Edited by llogical

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Ok ..this should finish ur frustration

Let me show u from the Qura'n where it calls the previosu prophets muslims !

And recite to them the news of Nûh (Noah). When he said to his people: "O my people, if my stay (with you), and my reminding (you) of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh is hard on you, then I put my trust in Allâh. So devise your plot, you and your partners, and let not your plot be in doubt for you. Then pass your sentence on me and give me no respite."But if you turn away [from accepting my doctrine of Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allâh], then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allâh, and I have been commanded to be one of the Muslims (those who submit to Allâh's Will)."[10:71-72]

There are many such statements referring to many other prophets in the Qura'n ..so they were all Muslims .

 

Christians worship a man whom they consider as an icon of god ...worshipping other than ur creator is not submission but outright polytheism.Jews reject prophets because the prophets call to what doesnt suit their whims and desires or the prophets are from a different race...they both belie the Message of Allah and hence do not submit to him .

 

It's wrong because the kids come out retarded.

My point is how can it be wrong for us and not Adam?

Did god change his mind about this?

I thought I asked a simple question...

If only Allah knows than there is no point in saying anything about it.

Kids dont necassarily have to come out retarted ..they become only so if God wills it to be so ,everything happens only with the will of Allah ..if Allah decides that ice should not melt at 100 Celcius it will not melt .

...Its not a changing of mind ..its a question of what is the best law according to Allah for a given time and period ....He chooses it in his wisdom and there is nothing u can do about it .

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Mothers (2006) >= Mothers^2 (2006) >= ... >= Mothers^k (2006) >= ...

 

This sequence cannot continue decreasing indefinitely without assuming motherless mothers, so it must stop decreasing in some generation k. Either Mothers^k (2006) is a set with a single mother ... or none of the generations prior to this generation ever interbred. As we humans are all capable of interbreeding, Mothers^k (2006) must be a set with just one woman, a mother of us all. (Her mother is also a mother of us all, et seq.)

taoist,

 

Your thought experiment is very interesting and quite clever, but there is a logical flaw in it. It is true that if Mothers^k (2006) is a set with more than one mother (say n mothers), then today's generation can be divided into n sets, each of which traces its purely maternal ancestry to one of the n original mothers. This would divide our generation into n separate "maternal family trees", but this doesn't mean that there was no interbreeding - a male carries genetic information from his mother to his child, and this allows the exchange of genetic information between the different family trees. Because of this, any human alive today is unlikely to have ANY genetic material from his or her purely maternal ancestor, since only about half of your genes comes from your mother. Your ability to divide the human race into conceptual "maternal family trees" is fascinating, but it does not prove the existence of a single founder!

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Greetings fellow debaters! :D

 

If I may intervene for a moment,

 

how can adam be muslim without kalima and the other four pillars of Islam?How can he and people before the prophet believe in the prophethood if the prophet doesn't exist yet????

 

'Muslim' is a term used for one who surrenders and submits his whole self to his Lord. 'Islam' literally means 'Submission to (the Will of) God. Each Prophet and Messenger bowed his will to Al-lah's:

 

Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to God's (Islam), and he joined not gods with God. [Al-Imran: 67]

 

We may deduce from the above passage that the Prophets of old were in fact 'Surrendered' to the Most Gracious (i.e Muslims).

 

As for the 'last brick in the house of Prophethood' (Muhammad), he himself has stated in well-known Hadith (which I am unable to cite at the moment) that Adam was given knowledge of his arrival. The Kalima 'La Ilaha Ill-Allah- Muhammadhu Rasul Allah' was written on the Throne of the Most High, long before the creation of Adam. (Let us not attempt to envision the 'Throne' of God, for it is a metaphysical reality beyond human comprehension).

 

We read in the 31st Ayah of Surat Al-Imran:

 

Behold! Allah took the covenant of the Prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an Apostle [Muhammad], confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

 

All the best,

 

Joseph

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taoist,

 

<snipped for post length>

Greetings, clarence,

 

Actually, you're facing the wrong direction. You need to consider how those n mothers could possibly have had exactly n mothers who had exactly n mothers before them, on and on back into the past, with never a pair sharing a great-great-great-great grandmother in the female line, and whose descendants were still able to interbreed. Divergence in the genome would eventually pass a species boundary through accumulated differences, and thus we are left either with a vanishingly low probability event of convergent evolution in the genome or divine intervention of a sort not not hypothesized by any religion.

 

It's not actually my thought experiment, by the way. It's straight out of population genetics, and originates with a 1985 paper in the Biological Journal of the Linnean Society ... (yes, the very same that published a pair of papers a century and a half ago by a couple fellows named Wallace and Darwin) ... followed by a seminal paper released in January, 1987:

 

__________

 

Mitochondrial DNA and human evolution

 

Rebecca L. Cann, Mark Stoneking, Allan C. Wilson

 

SUMMARY: Mitochondrial DNAs from 147 people, drawn from five geographic populations have been analysed by restriction mapping. All these mitochondrial DNAs stem from one woman who ...

 

Nature 325, 31-36 (01 Jan 1987) Article

 

__________

 

She's better known as (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve"]mitochondrial eve[/url].

 

Best estimates at present are that she lived around 150,000 years ago, and that her counterpart, y-chromosomal adam, lived about 90,000 years ago. The analysis, as you might infer, is based on the interesting fact that each of us receive our mitochondrial DNA from our mothers, with no meaningful contribution from our fathers, and that men receive their y-chromosome from their fathers alone, allowing us to trace genetic markers, those minor scuffmarks in our genome that get passed on to all male descendants of the original "scuffee."

 

The most prominent popularization of the results of this investigation is the (www.)"https://3.nationalgeographic(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/genographic/index.html"]Genographic Project[/url] begun by the National Geographic Society. I've been following the project for quite a while now, and it's absolutely fascinating. If you've got a few hours away from the wife, kids, girlfriends or whatever, dive in. I highly recommend it.

 

As ever, Jesse

Edited by taoist

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And recite to them the news of Nûh (Noah). When he said to his people: "O my people, if my stay (with you), and my reminding (you) of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh is hard on you, then I put my trust in Allâh. So devise your plot, you and your partners, and let not your plot be in doubt for you. Then pass your sentence on me and give me no respite."But if you turn away [from accepting my doctrine of Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allâh], then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allâh, and I have been commanded to be one of the Muslims (those who submit to Allâh's Will)."[10:71-72]

I notice that u interjected lines in the authentic quranic verse..but overlooking that even this doesn't prove Adam or Noah were muslims

'Muslim' is a term used for one who surrenders and submits his whole self to his Lord. 'Islam' literally means 'Submission to (the Will of) God. Each Prophet and Messenger bowed his will to Al-lah's:

 

Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to God's (Islam), and he joined not gods with God. [Al-Imran: 67]

Going by the same definition of muslim than ,are jews and christians are also muslim..??

all aside, it transparent that adam's direct children committed incest ..and if i get this right than this is not a problem since God allowed it b4?

I think there is very little room to say more about the point I was making..God does change rules...Maybe God will also change the rule about people going to heaven perhaps..That sounds like reliable knowledge :D

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I notice that u interjected lines in the authentic quranic verse..but overlooking that even this doesn't prove Adam or Noah were muslims

1.Qura'n is in arabic...in most cases u cant have a one to one mapping to english words ...so the translation i quote is supposed to be presenting an acurrate translation of the meanings ..not a

word to word translation

2.I didnot add the word "muslim" ..its already in the arabic of the verse ...

 

 

Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to God's (Islam), and he joined not gods with God. [Al-Imran: 67]

A Transliteration of the verse

Mā Kāna 'Ibrāhīmu Yahūdīyāan Wa Lā Naşrānīyāan Wa Lakin Kāna Ĥanīfāan Muslimāan Wa Mā Kāna Mina Al-Mushrikīna

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_transliteration(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/quran/WebSite_CD/Sound/0030671.mp3"]Click here to listen[/url]

 

Here the words "Hanifan Muslimaan" is translated to "true in faith and bowed to will of God" .....so iam not changing anything rather presenting a translation closer to the original ...Abraham is referred to as a "Muslim" in the verse ...thats why we say all prophets were muslims

Going by the same definition of muslim than ,are jews and christians are also muslim..??

Not the way Muslims define themselves .When u "submit" u obey god in all things and worship him alone ,stay away from what he asks u not to ..

Christains worship a man born out of a woman

Jews reject the prophets

 

all aside, it transparent that adam's direct children committed incest ..and if i get this right than this is not a problem since God allowed it b4?

yes..nothing is wrong unless God tells u its wrong

I think there is very little room to say more about the point I was making..God does change rules...Maybe God will also change the rule about people going to heaven perhaps..That sounds like reliable knowledge :D

The basic rule to heaven has always been the same ..its very simple with no complications ..

.Worship ur creator alone ,supplicate to him alone,be Grateful to him for what u have been blessed with in this life...Transgress not the limits set by him ...if u commit a sin repent for he is the most Merciful and Most Just and u will be forgiven .

Edited by al-malabari

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1.Qura'n is in arabic...in most cases u cant have a one to one mapping to english words ...so the translation i quote is supposed to be presenting an acurrate translation of the meanings ..not a

word to word translation

2.I did not add the word "muslim" ..its already in the arabic of the verse ...

Yosuf Ali, Shakir,Pickthal...I found no translation like yours.Maybe they didn't translate right (word to word) What I find interesting is that Quran never changes (for once i appreciate this) but translations change conveniently.

Christains worship a man born out of a woman

Jews reject the prophets

Ok forget christians and the trinity thing..Jews atleast are muslims. Prophethood is irrelvant here

since a Muslim is who submits to Allah and Jews do. :D

yes..nothing is wrong unless God tells u its wrong

Allright than...so God says that incest is wrong..can u please point out some verses,

let's see how incest is defines.

The basic rule to heaven has always been the same ..its very simple with no complications ..

.Worship ur creator alone ,supplicate to him alone,be Grateful to him for what u have been blessed with in this life...Transgress not the limits set by him ...if u commit a sin repent for he is the most Merciful and Most Just and u will be forgiven ..

The basic rule can change if God wills to..he needs to explain nothing or reason with no one...if he does change his mind what can u do ...nothing

 

peace

 

.

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Yosuf Ali, Shakir,Pickthal...I found no translation like yours.Maybe they didn't translate right (word to word) What I find interesting is that Quran never changes (for once i appreciate this) but translations change conveniently.

yes..translations can change ..because they are written by men ..but if u learn arabic u can go back to the source and always double check for accuracy just like i have done

Jews atleast are muslims. Prophethood is irrelvant heresince a Muslim is who submits to Allah and Jews do.

Not the way muslims define themselves.

 

2:89. And when there came to them(Children of israel) a Book from Allāh confirming that which was with them – although before they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved – but [then] when there came to them that which they recognized, they disbelieved in it; so the curse of Allāh will be upon the disbelievers.

 

Allright than...so God says that incest is wrong..can u please point out some verses,

let's see how incest is defines.

 

In Islam u can have intercourse legally with only ur wives or the slaves ..

Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your foster mother who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sisters, your wives' mothers, your step daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have gone in(ie.consummate a marriage) - but there is no sin on you if you have not gone in them (to marry their daughters), - the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins, and two sisters in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed; verily, Allâh is Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.[4:23]
Edited by al-malabari

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The basic rule can change if God wills to..he needs to explain nothing or reason with no one...if he does change his mind what can u do ...nothing

 

peace

No Its a promise !

Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one (Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace) calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and remit from us our evil deeds, and make us die in the state of righteousness along with Al-Abrâr (those who are obedient to Allah and follow strictly His Orders). Our Lord! Grant us what You promised unto us through Your Messengers and disgrace us not on the Day of Resurrection, for You never break (Your) Promise." (Âl-'Imrân, 3: 192-194)

 

 

Edited by al-malabari

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No Its a promise !

Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one (Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace) calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and remit from us our evil deeds, and make us die in the state of righteousness along with Al-Abrâr (those who are obedient to Allah and follow strictly His Orders). Our Lord! Grant us what You promised unto us through Your Messengers and disgrace us not on the Day of Resurrection, for You never break (Your) Promise." (Âl-'Imrân, 3: 192-194)

 

 

a promise is what u have than and u believe it caz u have "faith" but my concern still remains,If god threw u in hell than than there is nothing u can do, No one will Make God keep his promise...If u say that he will keep his promise because he said so that changes nothing...Caz in saying that u predict what God owes to do and NO one can predict God..U can't say it's not good/right because God is always good,he is always right and .The opposite of right becomes right when God does it since he defines good, and right. To me it still makes NO sense but than again faith is superior than logic and I got that seal of blindness that can't be removed.Atleast One of us is dillusional.

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I didn't see this b4 :D

yes..translations can change ..because they are written by men ..but if u learn arabic u can go back to the source and always double check for accuracy just like i have done

 

No use, I can't master arabic better than native arabic schlars...maybe u have.

Not the way muslims define themselves.

but they define adam that way. A muslims is some one who submits to God remember.. that's the meaning of the word "to submit" ...U don't need prophethood or th epillars of Islam to be a mulsim...You said it not me... Jews submit to God, Jews are muslim...It's a simple logic.

 

In Islam u can have intercourse legally with only ur wives or the slaves ..

Got it, Just making sure that Cousins aren't included. :D

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1.I know u believe in God ...Do u think its His right that u be thankful to him for what he has blessed you with in this life ...how he has given u more than he has given so many others around the world ?

 

2.If yes do u think its correct that u be thankful to other than him say a stone or an idol for what He Alone has provided me with probably through someone because everything is ultimately controlled by Him alone alone.

 

3.Do u really believe this life is worthless and has no reason for ..even a sole of shoe has a purpose ..if yes why not a human...the most complex of the creation. ?

 

4.How do u know ur creator ..have u seen anyone comparable to him ...NO..then how do u so easily pass a judgement based on ignorance on some one who provides u with the most basic of necessities -air, with out which u cant live for more than 2 minutes to all of the creation with out discrminating between the good and the bad ...Do u think u can live even a second of ur life without benefitting from his mercy ...NO .Is there anyone who shows this level of Mercy .Isnt this world and all it contains enough proof for him being Just and Merciful..he is not u or me to follow lowly whims and desires ...

 

NO one can predict God..U can't say it's not good/right because God is always good,he is always right and .The opposite of right becomes right when God does it since he defines good, and right.

He has said in the Hadith Qudsi, "O My servants, indeed I have forbidden oppression upon Myself and I have also made it forbidden amongst yourselves, hence do not oppress each other".

 

I think u should pick up the Qura'n and (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_islambasics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/view.php?bkID=120"]start reading[/url] ..never mind if u have done it before...try it with a clean and open mind .

 

 

Edited by al-malabari

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I didn't see this b4 :D

No use, I can't master arabic better than native arabic schlars...maybe u have.

YusufAli,Shakir -are south Asians

Pickthall is an englishman who becmae a muslim ...none of them are "native arabic scholars" ..neither am i arab .U dont need to master arabic...get a better translation .This is a good one .

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_islambasics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/view.php?bkID=120"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_islambasics(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/view.php?bkID=120[/url]

but they define adam that way. A muslims is some one who submits to God remember.. that's the meaning of the word "to submit" ...U don't need prophethood or th epillars of Islam to be a mulsim...You said it not me... Jews submit to God, Jews are muslim...It's a simple logic.

Their supposed submission is no submission [at] all rather a large number of them have transgressed among themselves and others ...have rejected the messengers sent to them,killed them..changed the scriptures and various other crimes which are reasons for their disbelief.Even a born muslim can become some one who doesnt submit if he does many actions which are considered to be actions whcih cause disbelief

 

Got it, Just making sure that Cousins aren't included. :D

U can legally marry ur cousins in Islam ..

Edited by al-malabari

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