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llogical

Adam Vs. Evolution

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I could give you a response not because I cant, but I've had a lot of discussions, with ateists, theists,... (i.e non muslims) and it was just a waste of time, because they dont won't to believe as you say they would like to have fun only or enjoy there lives. You cant explain someone something whos main desire is to enjoy and not to gain the truth, but only to satisfy there souls request.

 

So Peace

True... Atheists may like to have fun in this life, but theists will like to have fun in the after life.. see every one is a fun seeker.

(unless u have to pray and do chores in the after life too which kinda sucks if u ask me :D )

But It's not that people don't like to see the truth, they just have a diffrerent idea of what truth is.

You will not convert to atheism no matter how much people try to convince U right? Does that mean U are stubborn? Or not a truth seeker? I am thinking No... because to you, what u believe is true and that's why U stand for it. That's exactly where Atheists/ non believers may stand. I guess the truth lies in proof, or lack of proof in some cases.

God was a hidden treasure who wanted to be discovered right?

How come then a perfect God fail at convincing people that he exists?

A perfect God would never fail at any task, If he wanted to let people know he exists, Every one would know the truth.

 

 

peace

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PropellerAds

Peace,

I think every child is born with human nature and human nature include the existence of God, because if something goes wrong with them(human) and nobody comes to thier help then its only God they realise and ask help.

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How come then a perfect God fail at convincing people that he exists?

A perfect God would never fail at any task, If he wanted to let people know he exists, Every one would know the truth.

 

 

peace

 

The intention of God is not to make all believe in Him,dont get it wrong He desires this and as He says in the Quran he has the ability to do it. But then a spirit like coal would remain together with a spirit like diamonds. He created Jannah and Jahannam for ones who deserves it. And yes He can make his creations obey with there free-will too, like you claimed, if His so perfect and can do anything why cant He let all to obey him etc. But thats the same thing only a different way of making all believe. Free-will is only an cause. But He put the rules of this exam, and used free-will. See religion is an examination, a test, which distinguishes elevated spirits from base ones. It therefore speaks of matters that everyone shall see with their eyes in the future in such a way that they remain neither altogether unknown, nor self-evident so that everyone would be compelled to confirm them. They open the door to the reason but do not take the will from the hand. Because if a sign of the Last Day appeared completely self-evidently and everyone was compelled to affirm it, then a disposition like coal would remain equal to one like diamonds. The mystery of obligation and results of examination would be lost. Simply, it would become as self-evident as writing There is no god but God clearly with stars on the face of the skies. Then everyone would have to affirm it whether they wanted to or not. There would be no competition, and the examination too would be lost.

 

peace

Edited by vdtwo

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:D

 

A perfect God would never fail at any task, If he wanted to let people know he exists, Every one would know the truth

 

You're right, but that's IF he wanted. Rather, He wants to test us. That's His Will, who are we to argue with it?

 

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!" [surat Yunus (Jonah), Verse 99]

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:D

You're right, but that's IF he wanted. Rather, He wants to test us. That's His Will, who are we to argue with it?

 

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!" [surat Yunus (Jonah), Verse 99]

Salamz :D

According hadith,Allah says, "I was a hidden treasure, and I wished to be known, so I created a creation then made Myself known to them, and they recognised Me."

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/afor.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...adith/afor.html[/url]

 

To me that sounds like God wanted to be recognized yet some people (like atheists) still fail to recognize him. Ofcource I don't mean stubborn people who rather plug their ears, close their eyes and go la la la la ...but people who seek him , there are such who still fail to find a firm basis of his existance.

 

The test may guage who's obedient and who's not, but why is it that a perfect God wants people to recognize him yet people don't. Again, this points that In this world, our will/ignorance is greater then God's will/plan.

Peace

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llogical,

 

Ok, firstly, that hadith is not 100% authenticated. But, the meaning is generally accepted, as the meaning is about the same as the verse "I have not created the Jinn and Mankind except to worship Me."

 

That is the meaning of the hadith: that the reason Allah created His creation is to worship/recognize Him.

 

Secondly, it doesn't mean, that Allah wants everyone to recognize Him. Why would He want someone who is blind to His Signs, to recognize Him?

 

As for what you said, that people who seek Him don't recognize Him, that's simply not true. God has set the truth up for people who seek Him, and all they have to do is open their eyes and look for it. If, after that, they still don't see His existence, then if they are sincere, they are either lying to themselves about His existence, and looking for doubts, or they just need to increase their sincerity, and look harder for the truth.

 

I fail to comprehend how someone sincerely looking for truth reads the Qur'an with an open mind, and still doesn't recognize Allah's existence. It's completely beyond me, because, the Qur'an is full of miracles, and in fact, the Qur'an itslef is a miracle.

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llogical,

 

Ok, firstly, that hadith is not 100% authenticated. But, the meaning is generally accepted, as the meaning is about the same as the verse "I have not created the Jinn and Mankind except to worship Me."

 

That is the meaning of the hadith: that the reason Allah created His creation is to worship/recognize Him.

 

Secondly, it doesn't mean, that Allah wants everyone to recognize Him. Why would He want someone who is blind to His Signs, to recognize Him?

 

As for what you said, that people who seek Him don't recognize Him, that's simply not true. God has set the truth up for people who seek Him, and all they have to do is open their eyes and look for it. If, after that, they still don't see His existence, then if they are sincere, they are either lying to themselves about His existence, and looking for doubts, or they just need to increase their sincerity, and look harder for the truth.

 

I fail to comprehend how someone sincerely looking for truth reads the Qur'an with an open mind, and still doesn't recognize Allah's existence. It's completely beyond me, because, the Qur'an is full of miracles, and in fact, the Qur'an itslef is a miracle.

Salamz

Yeah I didn't realize that the hadith was a bit shaddy. :D ( MAybe caz I've heard it used a lot )

But if God created men and Jin to worship, then still that was his plan or intention.

How can people then go against his plan or intention? Feewill is a contradiction to this plan and something doesn't add up.

Why would god want blind to see him? Becaz God is compassionate and this infers that he doesn't discriminate smart from dumb people or in any other way. People don't make theselves blind. I doubt if people would rather choose hell over heaven knowingly...Just for the heck of it ( given sanity).

Bcaz people act to avoid pain an dsuffering or access happiness and pleasure.

It's not useful for people (or myself atleast) to disprove God or doubt him for no reason risking eternity in Hell.

I can't knowingly fool myself.... knowing that there is a chance that I might unintentially do so is the safeguard against that thought. If something is white, I honestly can not convince myself that it's black...especially knowing that I may unintentionally try to see it black. so I'm not sure what u meant by people fooling themselves. :D

As far as Miracles, they are just something that we don't understand.

There are real people David Blaine who can perform miracles in real life.Yet no one consider him Dvine. (actually I take that back..there are lotsa weirdo's out there )

People who read Quran with an open mind can still doubt it just like people who read Bible can. To a Christian/Jew etc it's also mind boggling why people who read their scripture aren't convinced, because they also have a strong belief. There is only one way to sort right belief from wrong and that is Logic. ( not me , the one with one L :D )

SO even though reality becomes clear once some one believes, Logic isn't a necessary component of that reality and I value logic.

( I know u probably wanna strangle me by now but remember God dislikes violence :D )

 

peace

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firstly, sorry if my answer's already been covered by various people, I havent read the entire thread.

 

Adam lived around 4000 BC. We already know that there were people (and civilisations) around at that time. Adam. Humans (in their current form) have been around for 1 million years, so Adam couldnt have been the first human. Adam was the first human with whom god communicated (the first prophet). Adam taught "ancient Islam," which held exactly the same beliefs (except, obviously, the fact that mohammad pbuh is the messenger (he wasnt around at that time!). However, over the several thousand years, the faith was corrupted. More prophets (eg: Noah, Abraham etc) were needed to purify it.

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Adam lived around 4000 BC. We already know that there were people (and civilisations) around at that time. Adam. Humans (in their current form) have been around for 1 million years, so Adam couldnt have been the first human.

Humans 1 million years old?? :D ...

according to some scriptures Adam was the first human...and according to

anthropology...closest match to humans ( Neandethal)are around 100,000 yrs old.

A million years ago, the only species close to human had a cranial capacity about half of modern humans.

peace

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Sorry, I just checked up - Cro-Magnon appeared around 40,000 years ago. Which still allows enough time for humans to learn and settle by around 6,000 BC, then getting screwed up by 4,000 BC, in time for Adam to arrive

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Sorry, I just checked up - Cro-Magnon appeared around 40,000 years ago. Which still allows enough time for humans to learn and settle by around 6,000 BC, then getting screwed up by 4,000 BC, in time for Adam to arrive

Hmm..interesting..but sounds like a theory bcaz it doesn't account for all the other genuses of homo that were already here( unless u agree that they evolved from a single cell organism) Besides according to a recent dna research (on y chromosome) ...human ancestory is about 60,000 yrs old. :D

Edited by llogical

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Do you mean human ancestry as in homo sapiens have existed for 60,000 yrs or we've had fancy civilisations for 60,000 years?

 

Because, somehow, I doubt the 2nd one's true.

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Do you mean human ancestry as in homo sapiens have existed for 60,000 yrs or we've had fancy civilisations for 60,000 years?

 

Because, somehow, I doubt the 2nd one's true.

According to the research, all men alive today have one common ancestor ( genetic Adam) who lived about 60,000 years ago.

If you are intersted in the reserach then here's the link to download it ( u'll need a torrent client)

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.mininova(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/tor/206434"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.mininova(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/tor/206434[/url]

 

peace :D

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I havent seen the research yet (no torrent client) but what you say seems relatively reasonable. Of course, that means were talking about different Adams...

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salaam;

 

I did not follow the threat .....is it ok if i give some related links ? :D

 

 

&&

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=QYL0zb"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/livedialogue/en...hGuestID=QYL0zb[/url]

 

 

Nicholas Matzke and Mustafa Akyol

Subject Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

 

 

&&&

 

 

 

Refutation of Darwinism

Nature and Creation

 

 

How Fossils Overturned Evolution: Millions of Proofs that Refute Darwinism

Why do you deceive yourself?

 

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

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I havent seen the research yet (no torrent client) but what you say seems relatively reasonable. Of course, that means were talking about different Adams...

True..bcaz that Adam ( genetic Adam) was supposively not the first human..I just brought this up to prove that...If modern sapiens stem from a common ancestor who lived 60,000 yrs ago then Adam couldn't have been only 6,000 yrs old.

Peace

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salaam;

I did not follow the threat .....is it ok if i give some related links ? :D

Threat ? :D I wouldn't Dare to threat any one teu45.gif....AND ..AND.....especially people who promised to pray for me :D

Refutation of Darwinism

Nature and Creation

How Fossils Overturned Evolution: Millions of Proofs that Refute Darwinism

Why do you deceive yourself?

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

I think U are confusing evolution with Darwin's THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

Speaking of which...

Let me ask you this, would you ever try to learn the benefits of eating meat from a vegetarian?

Probably not because his/her/its teaching would be biased becaz he/she/it is against eating meat. We know how popular Mr Darwin is amongst theologists....U see my point?

Thx for the links anyway.

 

Peace :D

Edited by llogical

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:D

 

Threat ? :D I wouldn't Dare to threat any one teu45.gif....AND ..AND.....especially people who promised to pray for me :D

 

----hehe , typo error.... i saw how thread became threat :D

did not correct it as it's not a threat at all :D or is it ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think U are confusing evolution with Darwin's THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

Speaking of which...

Let me ask you this, would you ever try to learn the benefits of eating meat from a vegetarian?

Probably not because his/her/its teaching would be biased becaz he/she/it is against eating meat. We know how popular Mr Darwin is amongst theologists....U see my point?

--------nope , i will Insha Allah try to read this threat...ooopsss thread.

 

 

 

 

Thx for the links anyway.

 

Peace :D

 

 

welcome

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sorry i meant "didnt"

YEah but Darwin is not allowed in out discussion :D (R.I.P Charlie)..Bsides..like I said, Evolution and Darwin's theory of Evolution are not the exact same thing.

Peace

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