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Apostasy in Islam

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But to return to the immediate context, you follow a chain of argument from the perfection ayah in order to "say that our way of life is perfect". Hold on a minute there. Is it okay for diseases to go uncured, to be satisfied with our present knowledge of the universe, to fail to act in the face of environmental hazards, to give up our means of instant communication across continents? None of these were any part of the way of life of Muhammad or his companions. There was no germ theory of medicine, no standard model in physics, no finite element analysis of global climate, no internet.

 

You have taken Islam out of context and are misleading the people. Islam is a guidence for all mankind, it teaches what is good for us and what is bad for us, corrects our manners and purifies our hearts. Islam encourages rather than forbids innovations of science and medicine, to look our upon our world and discover its secrets. Many advances in medicine and mathmatics have been attributed with Islam and Muslims. many past scholars of din were also scholars of science mathematics language and history.

 

I will now relate some hadeeth about sickness and disease.

 

muslim narrated in his sahih that the prophet said , "Every illness has a cure, and when the proper cure is applied to the disease, it ends it, Allah willing."

 

in the two sahihs it is narrated that the messenger of Allah said, "Allah has not sent down a disease except that He has also sent down its cure."

 

Imam Ahmad narrated that Usamah bin Shuraik said, " I was with the prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam when the bedouins came to him and said, "O messenger of Allah, should we seek medicine?" He said, " Yes O slaves of Allah, seek medicine, for Allah has not created a disease except that he has also created its cure. except for one illness." They said, "And what is that?" He said, "old age.""

 

We are not a backward people stuck in the dark ages we follow the din of Allah, the One who knows what is before us and what we left behind.

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We have communities scattered through the US, mostly around Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana that follow through on rejection of these modern innovations. They are the (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Amish"]Amish[/url]. Great carpenters, and they make awesome (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Funnel_cake"]funnel cakes[/url]. But they are otherwise irrelevant to the outside society, exactly because they do not live in the same world.

 

I think you see the analogy I'm trying to construct. Methods for answering doubts in a world where communication was restricted to a small community, predominantly through the means of the spoken word, lack relevance today. Were it not for the internet, I would never have heard of this Afghan, even had he been executed to keep me from hearing of him. And so, perhaps this means of silencing his doubts would have been effective.

 

This thread is pretty clear evidence that it is not effective in today's society. The reactions of non-muslims on this thread speak a fairly clear message. Whatever benefit might accrue from censorship by execution needs to be measured against the damage that accrues when word of this ultimate censorship is spread.

 

As ever, Jesse

 

as for the amish, i am originally from ohio and have met many amish people and if you think that Islam and the amish have any thing in common whatsoever you have made an awful error in your thinking. muslims have many times been in the forefront of technology ( i give the example of stem cell research in saudi arabia) and we have a permit to take from the kuffar in everything except din, meaning that if someone made a flying car, we are allowed to borrow that technology however if someone said there are six daily prayers then we are obliged to reject that.

 

i think that you intend to say that because we do not allow innovation in our din or abrogation to its laws we must therefore be stuck back in time. however, there is nothing to support this claim. no Qur'anic ayah, hadeeth, or pratice of any muslim during any period of time. We do not have a sect equal to the amish.

 

 

now please let us stick to the issue of execution and be statisfied with this:

 

muslims regard Islam as perfect in its laws manners and customs. as such there is no need to updated it. this in no way means that Islam abhors technology or advancement in sicence.

If you want to keep going over this, well i dont see a benifet.

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and Finally this is the law in Islam ..we are not looking for you to give us your stamps of approval before acting according to them

 

Then don't you dare complain when Westerners call Islam violent. It IS violent. This instance is proof of the violence of Islam. Go ahead and cling to your "justice", if that's what you want to call this. But don't complain when someone says you are violent. You must nod your head and say, "You're right, we are". :D

 

In the meantime, this "law" will chase far more people away from Islam than it will deter from apostacy.

 

And to think, you almost had me fooled into thinking Islam wasn't violent. Thanks for showing your true colors.

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It's a good job Christians aren't quite as insecure in their faith, otherwise this forum would be a few members light!!

No compulsion in religion......what a load of crock!!

If this man is indeed killed then we can lay to bed the myth of Islam being a peaceful religion.

If it's OK to kill somebody for their faith, then so be it. I don't want to hear a thing about muslims being stopped and searched on the streets of London, or muslims molested at israeli checkpoints or muslims not being allowed to wear headscarves in French schools. This is small fry compared to the barbarism displayed by Islam.

If it's good enough for the goose....

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In the meantime, this "law" will chase far more people away from Islam than it will deter from apostacy.

And to think, you almost had me fooled into thinking Islam wasn't violent. Thanks for showing your true colors.

if u want to call this violence so be it.I know for a fact that many westerners have a perverted understanding of Islam thanks to ur leaders,media and propoganda ..if u call it violent on basis of that ,we simply will not agree or nod our heads .

 

Its not the likes of you who decide who will become muslim or not ..this law was not introduced today ..it has always been this away and it NEVER stopped people from coming to Islam until today and it never will for whom Allah has destined Islam

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Salaam,

 

Killing someone is the ultimate violent act.

 

Killing someone for their beliefs is the ultimate intolerant act.

 

 

People spend a great deal of time writing thoughtful, logical and well researched thread and articles which show Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. I feel it is a shame that in just two deeds (the sentancing and then the support for it) all this work is wiped out.

 

Why is this man not afforded the same rights as Christians are theoretically afforded?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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if u want to call this violence so be it.I know for a fact that many westerners have a perverted understanding of Islam thanks to ur leaders,media and propoganda ..if u call it violent on basis of that ,we simply will not agree or nod our heads .

Acts like this will drive away the few allies you do have, in the West. Killing is violent, period. It is the epitomy of violence. To say it is not is pure denial.

 

Its not the likes of you who decide who will become muslim or not ..this law was not introduced today ..it has always been this away and it NEVER stopped people from coming to Islam until today and it never will for whom Allah has destined Islam

Nope, I don't decide who becomes a Muslim or not. You don't know that it has never stopped anyone from converting, though. No one knows who many people this will chase away. This, coupled with the violent reaction to the cartoons...can you blame any Westerner for thinking Muslims are violent? You can't, unless you're employed as an apologist.

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Is the death penalty violent? yes. Is justice always free of violence? Is it possible to have a working healthy society without violence? if the answer is no then one might ask what level of violence is acceptable in society?

 

in the Qur'an we learn of the nature of man,

 

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth.'' They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, Ü while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.'' He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know.'' 2:30

 

so if we come to the conclusion that violence is a necessary part of governance and society, do we punish each crime with the same level of violence or does that depend on the severity of the crime? can the petty thief get the same as the murderer of children?

 

For muslims this is a case of crime and punishment. And there is no greater crime under the sun than to ascribe partners unto Allah and even worse a crime for those who have witnessed tawhid.

 

For those who claim that they would not accept Islam because of this and that it turns away, i give myself as an example, when i wanted to become muslim and i was sure it was the truth from our lord i went to a friend of mine who frankly told me, thats great but know if you leave then you should be killed. I didnt blink an eye, ofcourse i should be, after the sweetness of imaan has entered you heart death would be better than kufr.

 

and muslims do not fear the blame of any blamer.

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Actually, it's the replies of members of this site that I find most disturbing. If people denounced it, here, I'd be fine with that. But more Muslims have been for this punishment than against it, that I have seen. That's very disturbing.

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For all the non-Muslims have a read of this link, it is an article on this law:-

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.al-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/short/apostacy.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.al-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/short/apostacy.htm[/url]

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British National Party..just a small question for you..what is the punishment for Treason in your country? in the UK I believe it is death not sure of others.

For the record, treason is not punishable by death in the UK. In fact the death penalty has been abolished throughout the European Union.

 

If the act of converting to Christianity is treason, does that make Christians the Enemy?

Edited by Joker

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Darn, I hate when my edit shows up. Makes it look like I'm covering up an outburst. All I did was type 'throught' instead of 'throughout' :D

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For all the non-Muslims have a read of this link, it is an article on this law:-

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.al-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/short/apostacy.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.al-Islam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/short/apostacy.htm[/url]

 

i would have everyone note that the above is a link to an article written by a shia, they do not speak for the majority of muslims and differ greatly with most of the teachings of the messenger salallahu alayhi wa sallam, ahle bayt, the companions, and the believers.

Edited by Fussilat

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:D

 

There is not a verse in the Qur'an that states death for apostasy. This is based on the tradition, which some scholars disagree with.

 

I would rather people who are not true Muslims convert to other religions than pretend to be Muslims when, in their heart, they are not.

 

 

:D

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since you are outside of what is known you should provide evidences and which scholars differ.

 

fear Allah and do not over speak His prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam

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Fussilat - yes you are right shia do not represent us Muslims as a whole but that article explains the law well, I could not find anything else on this.

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:D

 

There is not a verse in the Qur'an that states death for apostasy. This is based on the tradition, which some scholars disagree with.

 

I would rather people who are not true Muslims convert to other religions than pretend to be Muslims when, in their heart, they are not.

:D

 

dzenan, I know my sentiments aren't appreciated by most Muslims here, but that is the stance I would have thought most Muslims would take. I am surprised how many are taking the hardline stance.

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take homosexuality being accepted for example. we will never accept because it will never be accepted..

I find your logic very persuasive...

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i would have everyone note that the above is a link to an article written by a shia, they do not speak for the majority of muslims and differ greatly with most of the teachings of the messenger salallahu alayhi wa sallam, ahle bayt, the companions, and the believers.

 

Sooo....uh....my question is not what muslims think but is this part of Islam? like is it written in the Quran or something like that?

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Sooo....uh....my question is not what muslims think but is this part of Islam? like is it written in the Quran or something like that?

It's actually NOT in the Qu'ran. It's in a hadith. Hadiths were written by men, correct?

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Guest amani

in discussing these issues id like to remind members not to resort to insulting each other, + remember insulting is against he forum rules

22- insult Allah/Prophet/Islam/scholar/member: disable 10

 

 

(joker :D im glad you found 'my logic persuasive' )

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Salaam,

 

 

 

I would rather people who are not true Muslims convert to other religions than pretend to be Muslims when, in their heart, they are not.

 

Spot on. I agree entirely.

 

If the man did recant then he'd probably only be mouthing the words anyway, in his heart he wouldn't believe so whats the point of trying to force him?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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