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Apostasy in Islam

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Asslamu alaykum

 

If you say something against ur government surely u will be call upon and rest is what will government decide whther u be killed or set free based on ur lie against the government

 

 

 

how sure r u all of that Abdur rahman did he didnt say anything against Islam? and how sure r u of all that the conversion wasnt by forced or tempted???? Afganistan is captured by the US army........although the government is from Afganistan but still its a puppet.............

 

 

 

wassalam

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Asslamu alaykum

 

If you say something against ur government surely u will be call upon and rest is what will government decide whther u be killed or set free based on ur lie against the government

 

 

 

how sure r u all of that Abdur rahman did he didnt say anything against Islam? and how sure r u of all that the conversion wasnt by forced or tempted???? Afganistan is captured by the US army........although the government is from Afganistan but still its a puppet.............

 

 

 

wassalam

 

 

What country do you live in? In my country you can say bad things about the government its ok its free speech.

 

He said he converted 16 years ago, nobody has any reason to doubt him. He seems to be serious and takes his new faith (christianity) seriously.

If he wasnt a true christian, why would he be prepared to die for what he believes in? Its his choice.

I hope he is freed.

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What country do you live in? In my country you can say bad things about the government its ok its free speech.

 

He said he converted 16 years ago, nobody has any reason to doubt him. He seems to be serious and takes his new faith (christianity) seriously.

If he wasnt a true christian, why would he be prepared to die for what he believes in? Its his choice.

I hope he is freed.

 

Asslamu alaykum anthony

 

well i ask you back what country do you live where u post a lie against the government in the newspaper or publicly and nothing would happen?

 

well i aint blaming no body as you said he converted 16 years ago, if he converted 16 years ago then he must have lied or tried lying against Islam or tried fabricate it and therefore he deserve the death.

 

he doesn have right to speak lie.....................and possible answer is yes he did.

 

or he can be tempted by money by what so called political parties...................who knows!!!!!!!!

 

wassalam

 

:D

Edited by Risalat

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Asslamu alaykum

 

 

 

well my simple question is if he converted to christinity 16 years back then someone surround him might have observed, i think 16 years back the government was different, it wasnt a puppet government, a person passed already 16 years after conversion and no one knows? off course Afganistan was at that time an Islamic country so the point here is why he havent sentenced to death before or during the rule of taliban? why NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW? :D

 

 

 

either he lied or tried to fabricate the religion of Islam and if he did that he deserve death or theres someone behind him who playing the game..............political parties or parties from abroad tempted him by money.....................clea

enough

 

he doesnt have right to speak lie against the religion if he did so, if he doesnt like its his problem but caaant lie which is truth.

 

 

 

wassalam

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Asslamu alaykum anthony

 

well i ask you back what country do you live where u post a lie against the government in the newspaper or publicly and nothing would happen?

 

well i aint blaming no body as you said he converted 16 years ago, if he converted 16 years ago then he must have lied or tried lying against Islam or tried fabricate it and therefore he deserve the death.

 

he doesn have right to speak lie.....................and possible answer is yes he did.

 

or he can be tempted by money by what so called political parties...................who knows!!!!!!!!

 

wassalam

 

:D

 

Peace,

 

On the one hand, I think he converted in Germany. Millions of Afghanis left the country during the soviet occupation. On the other hand, anywhere in the west you can say whatever you like about the government and there's not thing one they can do about it. That's the law. Freedom of speech.

 

There's an old joke from the cold war between the US and USSR you might like.

 

A soviet was visiting Washington, DC when an american took him to task in front of the capitol.

 

"In this country, I can go right up on the steps of the capital and yell at the top of my voice, 'The president is an idiot'," said the american.

 

"Ha," said the soviet, "I can do the same thing, and when I get back to Moscow, they will give me a medal!'

 

:D

 

As ever, Jesse

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well i ask you back what country do you live where u post a lie against the government in the newspaper or publicly and nothing would happen?

 

The United States. You can lie about the government all you want and nothing will happen. Heck, you can even start a website saying that the US government shot a missile into the Pentagon on 9/11 and nothing will happen.

 

either he lied or tried to fabricate the religion of Islam and if he did that he deserve death

 

Quotes like that scare the hell out of me.

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The United States. You can lie about the government all you want and nothing will happen. Heck, you can even start a website saying that the US government shot a missile into the Pentagon on 9/11 and nothing will happen.

 

 

 

Quotes like that scare the hell out of me.

 

Coz Us government knows they do have some dumb and mentally violated people in their land :D

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peace and love,

 

 

 

oh dear r u scared? :D im soooooooooooooooooory

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Peace,

 

On the one hand, I think he converted in Germany.

"Ha," said the soviet, "I can do the same thing, and when I get back to Moscow, they will give me a medal!'

 

:D

 

As ever, Jesse

 

 

 

peace and love

 

 

 

why do you think it? why not u confirmed and post link whatsoever that he converted to germany.............If he could understand Islam he would never be converted.............but still the question is tempted or forced..............if you think hes converted in germany, im sure instead if using think that either he forced or tempted or being used as a puppet. :D

 

 

 

peace and love

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Peace and love again taoist

 

 

 

as what i asked why noooooooow suddenly the death punishment been announced?? 16 years back if you "THINK" he converted in germany, how sure u of that he never visited afganistan from germany after the conversion?????? any proof????? why hes being punished noooow, no matter what logic u pull here i will be asking the same quesiton either he foced or lied against Islam or tempted by the political parties for their self interest. if he lied against the religion of Islam, the religion of your Lord, Allah ..............surely u will judge him as a criminal and punish him

 

 

 

i know the media thingy...lol :D weird...........

 

 

 

 

 

peace and love

Edited by Risalat

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Assalamualaikum and all that jazz.

 

I have a curious question, which has been at the back of my mind ever since I read this article:

 

(www.)"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4841334.stm"]news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4841334.stm[/url]

 

In it, an Islamic judge states, in one breath:

 

"The Prophet Muhammad has said several times that those who convert from Islam should be killed if they refuse to come back," says Ansarullah Mawlafizada, the trial judge.

 

"Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, kindness and integrity. That is why we have told him if he regrets what he did, then we will forgive him"

 

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary lists tolerance as having the following definition:

 

Main Entry: tol·er·ance

Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-r&n(t)s, 'täl-r&n(t)s

Function: noun

1 : capacity to endure pain or hardship : ENDURANCE, FORTITUDE, STAMINA

2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b : the act of allowing something : TOLERATION

 

Now, is it just me, or does tolerance mean something entirely different to Muslims than it does to the rest of the world? How is killing a man for his faith tolerant? If American soldiers painted the word "TOLERANCE" on their bombs and dropped them on your homes, would you abstain from anger because it was done in the name of tolerance? That's what Islam's claim to tolerance amounts to, in a nutshell.

 

Tell me, what is it that you tolerate?

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P.S. your forum's religion feature was not specific enough, so I had to choose atheism as the closest to my religion. In truth, I worship Slaanesh.

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Peace risalat!

 

I would suggest you dont throw baseless acussations against this man. there is no proof to suggest anybody forced him to convert to christianity. It was his own choice. And as for him lieing....wouldnt you lie if you knew that you would be killed if people found out you choose to change to another religion?

 

There is no compulsion in religion. As ive said before, i am of the minority view that the prophet (pbuh) punished apostates by death during the great crisis in which polytheists were joining Islam in large numbers then leaving so to demoralise the muslims. I do not believe that law is still applicable today when Islam has over around 1.5 billion followers.

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I believe you are reffering to the incident before a war, I think Uhud. The Prophet(PBUH) was asked by a companion if the position he had chosen for the war was revealed to him or he is acting on his own behalf. The Prophet(PBUH) said that this is the position he chose. The Sahaba then said that maybe then we should move to a place where I think we would be better suited for this war. The Prophet(PBUH) replied in the positive. This is what I remember, may Allah forgive me if I am wrong. I will find the exact wording and Source soon Insha'Allah.

 

Salamu Alaikum

 

yes, i know that hadeeth, i believe you will find it in tafsir ibn kathir. the site however is down, and id look in the book that i have however it's late. and i dont see how it contradicts what i said. anywho.

 

anthony i will try insha Allah explain somthing to you.

 

we have a hadeeth classified as sahih that says kill the apostate. therefore we have to act on that hadeeth unless you know of another hadeeth or ayah that abrogates what the prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam said before. you cant just go around putting your opinion forward with nothing backing that opinion up. fear Allah.

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What country do you live in? In my country you can say bad things about the government its ok its free speech.

 

He said he converted 16 years ago, nobody has any reason to doubt him. He seems to be serious and takes his new faith (christianity) seriously.

If he wasnt a true christian, why would he be prepared to die for what he believes in? Its his choice.

I hope he is freed.

salam

Anthony y did u change ur profile for religion to Islam? did u convert or is it a mistake?

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:D

 

Pope Benedict is adding his voice to those urging Afghan authorities to drop the case against Abdul Rahman.

 

The Vatican has sent a letter to the president of Afghanistan. The pope said dropping the charges against Abdul Rahman would help foster "understanding and respect among the world's different religions and cultures."

 

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has been under mounting pressure from foreign leaders to free Rahman. He's being prosecuted under Afghanistan's Islamic laws for converting to Christianity 16 years ago.

 

Top officials in Afghanistan have said Rahman will be released soon. But clerics have questioned Karzai's authority to order his release, and have warned of a possible revolt if he tries.

 

 

That was posted on my news website.

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Peace and love again taoist

as what i asked why noooooooow suddenly the death punishment been announced?? 16 years back if you "THINK" he converted in germany, how sure u of that he never visited afganistan from germany after the conversion?????? any proof????? why hes being punished noooow, no matter what logic u pull here i will be asking the same quesiton either he foced or lied against Islam or tempted by the political parties for their self interest. if he lied against the religion of Islam, the religion of your Lord, Allah ..............surely u will judge him as a criminal and punish him

i know the media thingy...lol :D weird...........

peace and love

 

Thank you, Risalat,

 

I placed my original thoughts earlier in this thead three days ago.

 

Okay, if I understand what the stories are saying, we've got an Afghan man who converted to christianity in Pakistan while working with refugees 16 years ago. Fast forward, and now he's back in Afghanistan and battling his parents in a custody case involving his two daughters. These things can be quite ugly, and apparently this one's no exception.

 

I'm betting the parents knew they couldn't win the custody case on the merits and decided to go after him for converting. I doubt they'd be able to find someone willing to arrest the guy most places in the country. People are too reasonable for that. But it just so happens they managed to find a prosecutor with plenty of religious fervor and very little, if any, political savvy. Kinda reminds me of some of our tiny southern towns with a hayseed sheriff and a brother-in-law working as judge.

 

Some of the original stories mentioned he had been working with Afghani refugees in Pakistan, and I've seen other stories now that say he was living in Germany for a time as well. I assume that he would not have converted while he remained in Afghanistan, but I think it's more likely he would have converted in Germany. I'm not sure, and my words reflect my doubts.

 

In either case, it seems it would never have become an issue if he had not become embroiled in a custody battle over his daughters with his grandparents. They are the ones who asked for his arrest. I'm not even sure if we're dealing with his parents or the mother's parents.

 

On the other hand, as many others have suggested, if Allah is upset with him, why not let Allah do the punishing? The ayat I've seen all call for Allah to choose those he will call to Islam, and choose those who will not be called. And 2:256 guarantees that those who Allah calls will not desert him. It seems natural to me that muslims should assume that Allah did not call this man.

 

And in the final analysis, a dead man cannot become reconciled with Allah. In taking the decision of the time of his death from Allah, muslims may find themselves with much to answer for in paradise. Of course, these are, as always, just my random thoughts. Muslims will find their own path to truth.

 

As ever, Jesse

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And in the final analysis, a dead man cannot become reconciled with Allah. In taking the decision of the time of his death from Allah, muslims may find themselves with much to answer for in paradise. Of course, these are, as always, just my random thoughts. Muslims will find their own path to truth.

 

I'm afraid I do not completely understand what you are saying here. Please elaborate.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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Thank you, Risalat,

 

I placed my original thoughts earlier in this thead three days ago.

 

 

Some of the original stories mentioned he had been working with Afghani refugees in Pakistan, and I've seen other stories now that say he was living in Germany for a time as well. I assume that he would not have converted while he remained in Afghanistan, but I think it's more likely he would have converted in Germany. I'm not sure, and my words reflect my doubts.

 

 

In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful

 

peace and love,

 

 

 

well brother taoist if you are not sure of something then why do you post publicly and make confusion.

 

 

 

and for anthony im not accusing, read my post carefully and i restate either he lied against the Religion of Allah that deserve death or some parties tempted him and he will never mention it for their interest or FORCED by brutals in afghan(US army)

 

 

 

Why the punishment is not from Allah? well wait for that until the day of judgment. (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.dayofjudgment(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]www.dayofjudgment(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url], if Allah had to punish human being then no one would have left alive in the world.

 

Allah knows best about his creations, thats why Muslim pray five times a day seek His forgiveness all the time, seek refuge from the hell, ask refuge from the cursed satan. Every time we start a work in the Name of Allah( Bismillah hir rahmanir rahim), we do constantly Remember Allah and ask forgiveness coz we are not aware of some errors we r doing, we sincerely beg repentence when we are guilty. May Allah protect us from all evils.

 

 

 

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."( Surah al Baqarah 1:30)

 

from the above verse human being are the vicegerent of Allah, and if anyone speak lie against the religion of Allah, it is not tolerated.........for abdur rahman as i said either he lied against Islam or forced or tempted. but he must have lied coz 16 years passed after his conversion nothing happened why noooow? :D

 

 

 

May Allah forgive me if i am wrong somewhere.

 

peace and love

Edited by Risalat

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:D

 

Abdul Rahman was set free due to a lack of evidence:

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.news24(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1905021,00.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.news24(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/News24/World/News/0,...1905021,00.html[/url]

 

:D

AS

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I'm afraid I do not completely understand what you are saying here. Please elaborate.

 

Salamu Alaikum

 

Wow.

 

Oh, and wa alaikum assalam, my friend,

 

Before I elaborate, I must again emphasize that my thoughts are based on assumptions I do not accept, but are chosen only because of my belief that they represent the beliefs of muslims.

 

*putting on my "if I were a muslim" hat*

 

Imagine for a moment that Allah wished a man to learn the truth of Islam by allowing him to convert to christianity before showing him evidence that Islam was a greater truth. Why not? Would not such a man be all the better placed to show christians living in muslim lands the better path? Especially if he were originally born in muslim lands?

 

But now imagine that before this purpose could be served, that muslims killed this man who Allah wished to serve as his ambassador to the christians. Would they not then be responsible not merely for the damnation of this man but for all those christians who might have found the truth of Islam had they not interfered?

 

Would not Allah ask the muslims to answer for the consequences of their lack of faith in His purpose? To kill this man while he remains converted is to sentence him to hell. And it is quite conceivable that it would also sentence many others to hell in the process.

 

*taking off my "if I were a muslim" hat*

 

So that was my thinking. Could be I'm right and could be I'm wrong, but I can only answer for whether I spoke my thoughts honestly.

 

As ever, Jesse

 

__________

 

well brother taoist if you are not sure of something then why do you post publicly and make confusion.
Because it's a discussion board and discussion is always based on both facts and opinions.

 

I try to make sure my opinions are fairly well informed, but I can't ever guarantee they're correct. You will find I often correct past statements as more information comes on the table. My friend, I am not your teacher, and if I have somehow given the impression that I wish to take up that role, I can only say I did not intend to do so. It is always my wish that you would learn to seek your own path, and do so by thinking for yourself. But even in this, I do not wish to see you compelled.

 

As ever, Jesse

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Imagine for a moment that Allah wished a man to learn the truth of Islam by allowing him to convert to christianity before showing him evidence that Islam was a greater truth. Why not? Would not such a man be all the better placed to show christians living in muslim lands the better path? Especially if he were originally born in muslim lands?

 

This is good logic and its right I guess. But here is where you go wrong.

 

But now imagine that before this purpose could be served, that muslims killed this man who Allah wished to serve as his ambassador to the christians. Would they not then be responsible not merely for the damnation of this man but for all those christians who might have found the truth of Islam had they not interfered?

 

Would not Allah ask the muslims to answer for the consequences of their lack of faith in His purpose? To kill this man while he remains converted is to sentence him to hell. And it is quite conceivable that it would also sentence many others to hell in the process

 

This means that the muslims did the opposite of Allah's will! That is impossible. Allah chooses when the man will die, not His creation. If the man died because of the apostasy law, then Allah chose him to die then. Nobody on earth can do anything oppsite of what Allah wants.

 

Salamu Alaikum

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:D/Peace To All

 

Announcement

 

Islam Online will hold a live dialogue session on: Apostasy in Islam: any change in the contemporary context?

 

Guest: Dr. Jamal Badawi, famous Da' iyah and member of the European Council for Fatwa and Research.

 

Date: Monday, March 27, 2006

 

Time: Makkah: 18:00 to 19:30 and GMT: 15:00 to 16:30

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/livedialogue/english/select.asp"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/livedialogue/english/select.asp[/url]

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Thanks, Zman,

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_islamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=Gz9HCK"]Session archive[/url]

 

As ever, Jesse

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What is the reaction of Muslims who have openly supported the execution of this man to the Islamonline forum?

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