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New Rule For Non Muslims

evaluating a new rule for non Muslims  

39 members have voted

  1. 2. what post count do you propose, after which non-Muslims can no longer criticize Islam?

    • 100 (I'm a Muslim)
      10
    • 200 (I'm a Muslim)
      1
    • 300 (I'm a Muslim)
      1
    • 500 (I'm a Muslim)
      1
    • there should be NO limit (I'm a Muslim)
      18
    • 100 (I'm a non-Muslim)
      0
    • 200 (I'm a non-Muslim)
      0
    • 300 (I'm a non-Muslim)
      0
    • 500 (I'm a non-Muslim)
      0
    • there should be NO limit (I'm a non-Muslim)
      8


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:D

 

Dear members

As you all know, this community always shows friendliness, kindness and tolerance to all non-Muslim members. We treat them with gratuity and wisdom, as the Quran instructs us. However, its only Allah :D who guides whom He wants. We are nothing but a tool under the service of the Lord of the heavens and the earth, to do our part in the obligatory call for Islam.

 

But, do we have to put up with non-Muslim members and their refusal to accept or at least aknowledge Islam forever? or must there be a limit?

 

if our efforts with someone proved useless, and if that member didn't benefit from being in an Islamic forum with thousands of Muslims, each trying to help him understand Islam, and if that member kept being hostile toward Islam, and refused to show due respect and aknowledge that Islam is the perfect religion and way of life for all humanity, then something must be done here.

 

I'm thinking of adding a new rule, so that non-Muslim members are allowed to show their refusal of, and critisize and question Islam until they reach a specific post count. Once they exceed that post count, they can continue to post only if they agree to sign a new agreement. In that agreement, they should accept that they will no longer refute Islam or prophet Muhammad, and that they recognize the perfection of Islam.

 

There is no benefit from putting up with those who refute Islam for ever, with no genuine intention to seek the truth. Some non-Muslims have the habit of attacking anything Islamic, and have their hearts sealed with no chance of any light coming in. The only thing they do is irritate Muslims for no apparant goal.

 

Please vote to let us know what you think, and how many posts after which a non-Muslim must sign a new agreement.

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:D Dear Brother Dot,

 

Ok i voted 100 but i think even that is too many.

 

But i guess we have to be tolerent to some extent and sometimes it does take sometime for knowledge to sink in to a person.

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Salam,

 

It is certain that I will never become a muslim. But it is also certain that asking questions of muslims about Islam enhances my understanding of my brother and sister humans. And perhaps the reverse is true as well, that answering questions about Islam from non-muslims gives muslims a better idea understanding of our various beliefs as well as their own. I think you must decide what purpose you wish to serve with this site.

 

But I can tell you, as a non-muslim, that setting a post limit for members to convert or leave will surely make this a muslim-only site. In the process, I believe you will defeat the stated purpose of this site which caused me to post here to begin with, the ability to see muslims as something other than extremists. This would be a loss to the internet community. There are far too many places to find extremist muslims, and far too few to see them as anything else.

 

As ever, Jesse

Edited by taoist

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:D

 

Dear members

As you all know, this community always shows friendliness, kindness and tolerance to all non-Muslim members. We treat them with gratuity and wisdom, as the Quran instructs us. However, its only Allah :D who guides whom He wants. We are nothing but a tool under the service of the Lord of the heavens and the earth, to do our part in the obligatory call for Islam.

 

But, do we have to put up with non-Muslim members and their refusal to accept or at least aknowledge Islam forever? or must there be a limit?

 

if our efforts with someone proved useless, and if that member didn't benefit from being in an Islamic forum with thousands of Muslims, each trying to help him understand Islam, and if that member kept being hostile toward Islam, and refused to show due respect and aknowledge that Islam is the perfect religion and way of life for all humanity, then something must be done here.

 

I'm thinking of adding a new rule, so that non-Muslim members are allowed to show their refusal of, and critisize and question Islam until they reach a specific post count. Once they exceed that post count, they can continue to post only if they agree to sign a new agreement. In that agreement, they should accept that they will no longer refute Islam or prophet Muhammad, and that they recognize the perfection of Islam.

 

There is no benefit from putting up with those who refute Islam for ever, with no genuine intention to seek the truth. Some non-Muslims have the habit of attacking anything Islamic, and have their hearts sealed with no chance of any light coming in. The only thing they do is irritate Muslims for no apparant goal.

 

Please vote to let us know what you think, and how many posts after which a non-Muslim must sign a new agreement.

 

 

I don't think there should be a limit, I just think you should get rid of people that add nothing but empty insults. Productive critisism will lead to greater understanding of what Islam is, but rash insults do not.

 

You ask me to say that Islam is the ultimate and perfect way of life?

 

I'm interested in Islam (I'm reading the Koran), but becuase I have posted a certain amount of posts I must now be reverted to it? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

Do any MUSLIMS agree with me?

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:D

 

being critical of something is not always a bad thing. what i dont like is non muslims comming here to cause trouble with inflamatory statements.

 

i do feel that people like 3d, livius, lateralus etc, ADD something to the forum. to ban them of their opinion or to stop them being critical would show an intolerance of this web forum and give Islams detractors more ammunition. these welcome guests give all muslims on this site an opportunity to defend their religion, god, and lifestyle they love. it helps strengthen their defences, teaches them the answers to intolerant questions and gives muslims an opportunity to express themselves and understand what non muslims are thinking.

 

never stop non muslims being critical. it is a healthy state for all.

however, purposeful insults about the prophet (saws) should not be tolerated at all.

 

im not sure how well thought out this poll was.

 

zukiful.

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:D/Peace To All

 

I voted for no limitations for anyone. We should always keep the door open to all and not restrict anyone.

 

Some people may need more than an X-amount of posts, and some may never convert, but they shouldn't be penalized for that. Whether people convert or not is up to Allah, all we are required to do is to convey His message.

 

The Prophet (PBUH) didn't place limitations on non-muslims to convert, and many were hostile and hypocrites, yet they still were allowed to reside amongst Muslims and deal with them.

 

And there is nothing wrong with exchanging ideas and being exposed to each other. Constant exposure to each other will develop mutual understanding, like and respect, God Willing.

 

Also, there are quite a few really nice non-Muslims on this forum who show respect for Islam, and Muslims and have defended us on numerous occasions, and never showed any hostility.

 

We can always tell the difference between members who Join for constructive dialogue, to learn, or Just because they like the atmosphere and interaction with Muslims, from the few people who temporarily Join Just to attack and defame Islam.

 

The few individuals, who won't cease their hostility and disrespect can always have their posting rights revoked or banned indefinitely. But I don't think it's right nor Just to penalize all due to the actions of the few.

 

Lastly, I must say that the positive non-Muslims here do add a nice flavor to this community, and it is their community also.

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Peace Dot,

 

As with all true Muslim's you no doubt wish Da'wah to be the main focus of the forum. It is logical to assume that if on the forum there exist non-Muslim members who show no interest in reverting and indeed cast continual criticisms of Islam, whether those criticisms be derogatory or constructive, they will no doubt place doubts in the minds of any new non-Muslim forum members who may otherwise have reverted to Islam - were these doubts not placed in their mind on the very forum that seeks to guide them to Islam.

 

In that sense it would be logical to prevent any questions being asked of Islam by such members. Not only may these members cast doubts in the minds of potential reverts, they may also insert doubts into the minds of the Muslims on the forum.

 

The method of making such non-Muslim's agree to stating that Islam is perfect (if they wish to retain posting priviledges at a certain post count) has a double-upside. As well as the aforementioned benefit, if non-Muslims are given a set quota of questions they may ask before no more criticisms of Islam are permitted, then the quality of criticism that they put forward about Islam will no doubt improve. In stark contrast to having 100 similar questions about the role of women in Islam, or Islam and terrorism, imposing limits on the number of questions will force them to read the many replies to similar questions from the learned members of the IF Support Team and others who spend a great deal of time dealing with the same misinformation surrounding Islam.

 

With respect to the second point there are further considerations to be made. As human beings the well-intentioned Muslim members of the forum may sometimes respond to questions about Islam in a manner which might benefit from a greater degree of patience. As their patience will be tested less by such a measure as this being introduced, then they may be capable of refuting non-Muslims criticisms in an even more benevolent manner, without slipping up and indulging in petty argument. This will further benefit the cause of Da'wah by aiding Muslims lead the non-Muslim's by example as well as greater knowledge of the truth!

 

I agree with Tamarbutah in that 100 posts is probably too high a number for each non-Muslim member. If it were technically feasible, I think an alternative system to consider would be to permit each non-Muslim member to start 2 or 3 New Topics in which they may level whatever criticisms they like against Islam. Once the criticism made in that New Topic has been suitably addressed to the satisfaction of the IF Support Team then the topic should be closed. A potential limitation of this idea rests on the ability of the Moderators to monitor the IP addresses of new members to ensure that multiple accounts are not set up by non-Muslims to ask more than the set number of questions.

 

(Continued...)

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Salaam,

 

I voted for no limits.

 

I agree there are some poeple who do just come on to wind other people up, but they don't tend to stay for long anyway.

 

I still reserve my right to criticise and question Islam and the more I post the more complicated my questions get. If you put a limit on then you will always just get the same superficial questions "why are all Muslims terrorists?" or "why do Muslims always oppress women" rather than slightly more details questions about, say, the exact relation between a Dhimmi and an Islamic state.

 

People like myself, 3d, lateralus, livius etc do criticise and do question. We are not willing to admit (well, maybe I shouldn't speak on their behalfs!) that Islam is perfect because we don't see it as being perfect. If you kick people like us from the site then you're right, there will be less discussion about Islam, but it's hardly constructive to always debate with people who believe the same thing as you.

 

From my point of view, sometime I defend Islam, sometime I criticise. I will not say it's a perfect religion, but I won't say its rubbish either. Thanks to IF and my ability to criticise and get logical, well thought out answers when I debate with people in the real world I am able to give a better response if the conversation does turn to Islam.

 

If the website is set up soully to act as da'wa, then the post limit may make limited sense. But to me, firstly, you don't know if and when someone will convert, as someone has already said, that's up to God. Secondly, it;s only by criticism that we grow stronger in our own faith.

 

 

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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:D

 

Agreed with akhie thezman :D

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(continued from previous...)

 

I can see several potential pitfalls to the idea however.

 

Namely any sort of meaningful political debate. If a contentious issue arises surrounding for example, execution of convicted criminals within Dar al Islam, and a non-Muslim were to criticize the sentence which is of course part of God's Law, would this constitute a criticism of Islam and therefore result in repurcussions for that member?

 

As a more complicated example, were a Muslim member to suggest introducing elements of God's Law to a non-Muslim country to benefit the people there, and a non-Muslim resident of that country were to criticize the laws, they would be inadvertantly criticizing Islam.

 

There are grey area's which would have to be adequately addressed before such a move could be implemented, however as Da'wah is an obligation upon all Muslim's and is one of the purposes of this forum, it should be seriously considered!

 

Eoin

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:D

 

I think this is a very good idea, im sick and tired of endless debates with non Muslims, some are genuinely here to learn about Islam whilst other are here for only 1 reason, critisize and be hostile. I chose 100 posts, that is enough time for them to make up their minds

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Peace everyone

 

I really appreciate your thoughtful inputs. I found Eoin's views highly similar to my thoughts. I assure you all that nothing will be implemented until thoroughly studied insha'Allah.

 

I probably didn't express my thoughts correctly, so allow me to clear a few points: I never said that we'll require that non-Muslims should revert to be able to continue posting. All I meant was for them to acknowledge that Islam is something behind doubts, and that its a pure religion free of falsehood, and that it deserves their respect. Embracing Islam cannot be imposed on anyone, but paying due respect should be expected from long time members. We Muslims, for example, acknowledge and highly respect both Judaism and Christianity in their true and original forms, and that doesn't make us Jews nor Christians.

 

The suggested rule has nothing to do with Muslims of today. Non-Muslims can criticize today's Muslims freely, with no restrictions. Its the religion itself that is pure and perfect, and so must be protected from prolonged and meaningless attacks and fact twisting by some.

 

And by questioning, I meant putting Islam to doubt, as in refuting or defaming. As for questioning, as in asking all kind of questions to gain knowledge and info, that will always remain every one's right, and most welcomed at all times.

 

To those who vote for no limit, please note that we're not suggesting to ban them, but only to disable their right to post further. So, we're not restricting them from knowing Islam better. As Eoin intelligently summed it up, a balance must be met between non-Muslims' right to question and criticize, and the interests of prospective reverts to whom we have a responsibility to show them the truth and shield them from false thoughts and destructive doubts that some just enjoy spreading.

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Dot,

 

I can understand your reasoning. However, to expect someone to agree with the majority here after X-number of posts is, I think, quite unfair.

 

I respect the fact that you, and many others here, believe Islam to be perfect and right for every person, but to expect all members to eventually agree with you on this is unrealistic. You ask for respect of yourselves and your faith, but will not extend that respect to non-believers who post here?

 

I guess that to understand, you would have to put yourselves in our (non-believers') shoes.

 

If you were on a Christian forum, and they created this rule, how would you feel? They believe that Christianity is the perfect faith for every person, including you. If you do not accept that Christianity is perfect and above critique, your posting privileges will be revoked.

 

It's kind of insulting, isn't it? And it would keep other non-believers from joining, I would guess. If I had known that this rule would be implemented when I joined here, I just wouldn't have joined. There are other Islamic forums that I can visit to satiate my own curiosity, after all. Or I could ask the ex-Muslims I know, I suppose. I just figured that if I wanted to know something about Islam, it would be best to ask a Muslim. But if the Muslims will not let me ask questions after I have posted X-number of times, then I will just ask someone else.

 

Be careful about the rules you enact. You will scare away the very people you are trying to reach.

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Salaam,

 

the other issue is where a line is drawn between insulting Islam and healthy criticism of the state of Islam today/behaviours in some Muslim countries.

 

There is obviously concern about knwoing what falls into which catagory, would you be able to give us some examples from recent postings which would make it clear what the difference is?

 

If it's theological matters such as the trinity or the position of Jesus then the rule would make a certain amount of sense. If its to do with sharia'h law then the line becomes a bit more blurry.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Peace everyone

 

<snip>

 

All I meant was for them to acknowledge that Islam is something behind doubts, and that its a pure religion free of falsehood, and that it deserves their respect.

 

<snip>

Wasalam, dot,

 

Then perhaps I should leave.

 

Show me the muslim who is beyond doubts, and I will show you a muslim who has gone to meet his maker. I don't see how imposing such a standard on non-muslims is reasonable. Neither is it possible in a finite life, let alone a finite number of posts, to eliminate all falsehoods from our perceptions. My respect is reserved for my fellow humans, and for their spirits. Any respect I show a muslim's beliefs is due to the respect I show a muslim, and not the other way around.

 

Nor will this change.

 

My disagreement with theism and polytheism is fundamental to my own faith. Only a supernatural god can recognize a supernatural god because only a supernatural god possesses the needed supernatural gifts of discernment. I am human, and recognize humans, and respect humans. Because we are brothers and sisters. I can offer no more than this.

 

As ever, Jesse

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:D

 

No limit.

 

It should be more arbitrary. If someone is here to clearly offend people and not to learn about us, then they should be banned. I hope you have the capability to scan IP addresses as well.

 

Regarding someone asking the same questions all over again, key topics should be indexed, and there should be a special section of the forum (say Topic Directory) that contains links to commonly discussed topics.

 

:D

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Assalamu Alaikum, My opinion is that there should be no limit of the number of posts.

 

___Some people come and you can see by reading one or two of their posts that they are not here to learn anything or to give constructive critisism, but there just to post something hateful, we saw few cases like this in the past 2 months or so, these kind of posters should be banned as soon as possible.

 

___Some people come with the intention of finding out what Islam is and we can see that they are there to learn, whether they will accept Islam is between them and Allah. Alhamdulillah these are the people who ask questions and are not disrespectful. They could be going on for more than a 1000 posts, and are neutral. There is no purpose served by banning them.

 

___some people are there to criticize one and all things connected to Islam, you can see that all they want to do is try their best to find faults in everything , sometimes it feel like they are getting paid to add negative comments. They should be warned a couple of times and then banned for a few days , and after 3 times being banned and still not changing their attitude, should be banned permenantly.

 

___It is good for us Muslims in the forum to have people who are non Muslims who are trying to find out about Islam, because of their questions and curiosity, I dont know about others, but it has worked for me in a way that I have started reading more about MY Religion Islam, and have increased my knowledge of Islam, and now have an even deepen understanding, and Alhamdulillah My belief is more firm now that Islam Is It.

 

___I have noticed that sometimes a Non Muslim may ask a question in a critical way without meaning any disrespect and our Muslim Brothers and Sisters sometimes reply in such a way that it is embarassing, this is the time when we have to be cool headed and acquire the quality of RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam of Patience and understanding and try to explain in a positive manner then getting on the offensive.

 

___I feel very strongly that the debatable issuses should be only dealt by knowledgable brothers and sisters, so that the post does not turn into a TIT FOR TAT INSULTING SESSION the kind of arguement that goes on for pages and pages without benefit for anyone.

 

___I personally think that as long as a person is not abusive, Muslim or NonMuslim, and as long as they are learning, for whatever reason it may be, they should be welcome to the forum. This Forum should be a place for teaching and learning. We put in the efforts inshaAllah, and leave the rest to Allah. Allah Guides those He wills.

 

As Muslims it is our duty to make dua for the Humanity, and Humanity does not mean just Muslims, It is Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Etheists Etc...........We should be thankful to Allah that He blessed us with Imaan, and make dua that Allah guides everybody else too.

 

 

InshaAllah if I think of something else I will post later. Wassalamu alaikum, umAhmad.

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Show me the muslim who is beyond doubts

again, this is not about Muslims, its about Islam, the religion, not the followers. Islam the religion is perfect and free from doubts and falsehood. Muslims of today, on the other hand, represent only themselves. There are good and bad Muslims everywhere, and we're open for criticizm 24/7. Allah :D told us in the Quran that He can replace us with other nations of Muslims. But that has nothing to do with this poll.

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Wa alaikum assalam, sis umAhmad,

 

"... our Muslim Brothers and Sisters sometimes reply in such a way that it is embarassing ..."

 

Believe it or not, this happens with non-muslims too! As far as I know, this particular behavior is seen at every family reunion throughout the world with the possible exception of the Epimenides* reunion held in Crete sometime during the 6th century.

 

As ever, Jesse

 

 

*See (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_mathworld.wolfram(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/EpimenidesParadox.html"]Epimenides paradox[/url]. :D

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___Some people come and you can see by reading one or two of their posts that they are not here to learn anything or to give constructive critisism, but there just to post something hateful, we saw few cases like this in the past 2 months or so, these kind of posters should be banned as soon as possible.

 

___Some people come with the intention of finding out what Islam is and we can see that they are there to learn, whether they will accept Islam is between them and Allah. Alhamdulillah these are the people who ask questions and are not disrespectful. They could be going on for more than a 1000 posts, and are neutral. There is no purpose served by banning them.

 

___some people are there to criticize one and all things connected to Islam, you can see that all they want to do is try their best to find faults in everything , sometimes it feel like they are getting paid to add negative comments. They should be warned a couple of times and then banned for a few days , and after 3 times being banned and still not changing their attitude, should be banned permenantly.

 

___It is good for us Muslims in the forum to have people who are non Muslims who are trying to find out about Islam, because of their questions and curiosity, I dont know about others, but it has worked for me in a way that I have started reading more about MY Religion Islam, and have increased my knowledge of Islam, and now have an even deepen understanding, and Alhamdulillah My belief is more firm now that Islam Is It.

 

___I have noticed that sometimes a Non Muslim may ask a question in a critical way without meaning any disrespect and our Muslim Brothers and Sisters sometimes reply in such a way that it is embarassing, this is the time when we have to be cool headed and acquire the quality of RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam of Patience and understanding and try to explain in a positive manner then getting on the offensive.

 

___I feel very strongly that the debatable issuses should be only dealt by knowledgable brothers and sisters, so that the post does not turn into a TIT FOR TAT INSULTING SESSION the kind of arguement that goes on for pages and pages without benefit for anyone.

 

___I personally think that as long as a person is not abusive, Muslim or NonMuslim, and as long as they are learning, for whatever reason it may be, they should be welcome to the forum. This Forum should be a place for teaching and learning. We put in the efforts inshaAllah, and leave the rest to Allah. Allah Guides those He wills.

 

As Muslims it is our duty to make dua for the Humanity, and Humanity does not mean just Muslims, It is Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Etheists Etc...........We should be thankful to Allah that He blessed us with Imaan, and make dua that Allah guides everybody else too.

 

Salaam,

 

excellent post, I agree entirely

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Peace,

 

I also agree with umAhmad. Excellent post.

 

It is usually fairly obvious who those are that are here to cause trouble and those that are interested in sincere dialogue. I believe it would be unfair to lump them all together.

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Asalam alikum,

 

lol, well what I know is he is more than 50 I think, may be i am wrong and most important thing is, he is owner of this forum.

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AOA,

 

well I am 37 yo, but honestly, what a strange question. 100 posts and then no longer able to criticise Islam? Why round numbers? why not 93 posts or 48 posts or some random number? And wouldn't this require a lot of work by the mods?

 

I mean they would have to monitor each non Muslim and his/her post count and then judge each post for being anti Islam or not.

 

the logistical difficulties would be enormous.

 

to me this poll is about as useful as

 

** what is your favorite flavor of ice cream ** ?

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:D

 

First of all welcome to the forum Internet name, as i see you have only just arrived i will take it into account. This forum is veiwed by many people muslims and non muslims and we do have quite a few non muslims coming here only to mock Islam and have no intention of ever trying to understand what Islam really is, however we do have alot of non muslims that come here to find out the truth and some of them even become muslim after being here alhamdulilah. The thing is we should draw a line either they should respect our belifes or leave, no one is saying they have to become a muslim but should show respect to Allah SWT and our beloved prophet SAW.

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