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An Atheist Professor Of Philosophy Speaks ......

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:D

 

An atheist Professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, the Almighty. He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and.....

 

Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?

 

Student: Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So you believe in God?

 

Student: Absolutely, Sir.

 

Professor: Is God good?

 

Student: Sure.

 

Professor: Is God all-powerful?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?

 

(Student is silent)

 

Professor: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Professor: Is Satan good?

 

Student: No.

 

Professor: Where does Satan come from?

 

Student: From...God...

 

Professor: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Professor: So who created evil?

 

(Student does not answer)

 

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

 

Student: Yes, sir.

 

Professor: So, who created them?

 

(Student has no answer)

 

Professor: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

 

Student: No, sir.

 

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

 

Student: No, Sir.

 

Professor: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

 

Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

 

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Professor: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

 

Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

 

Professor: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

 

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student: And is there such a thing as cold?

 

Professor: Yes.

 

Student: No sir. There isn't.

 

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events)

 

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, Sir, just the absence of it.

 

(There us a pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre)

 

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

 

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

 

Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness, darker, wouldn't you?

 

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man?

 

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

 

Professor: Flawed? Can you explain how?

 

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.

 

Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

 

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

 

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

 

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going)

 

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going Endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

 

(The class is uproar)

 

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

 

(The class breaks out into laughter)

 

Student: Is there anyone here, who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it...No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, Sir.

 

With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

 

(The room is silent. The Professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable)

 

Professor: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

 

Student: That is it Sir... The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

 

:D

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PropellerAds

:D

 

 

:D nice one...

 

w/salaam

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The prof seems like a hard atheist, it's no surprise his proposition was broken down like that. I'm an athiest but even I would have debunked his process the moment he mentioned the word "good".

 

I believe the things I believe in based on probability, not blind faith. In the last example the student gave about the professors brain, I'd say that you can't rule out the possibility that the prof does not have a brain (the theory of everyone around you being robots covered in human covers etc). You simply wouldn't be able to know for sure that the prof was even human. Believing that the prof is human without any way to rationalize it is faith. However if you rationalize it and consider the possibilities, based on his behaviour, imperfection, doctor records, university credentials, family life, personal preferences etc. The probability that he is a human with a brain increases, as we start documenting these aspects of him. If we say he is a human with a brain, taking all these into consideration, it now becomes an educated guess as opposed to the blind stab in the dark that faith is. This here is also why science is simply "a best guess"

 

As a soft atheist I would never insist that god does not exist.

 

but what I do ask is, why do you believe in god?

 

If you have a way to prove gods existence, then lets hear it.

 

If you take it on faith, then you are diliberately ignoring the fact that you could be wrong similar to how you concluded the professor has a brain without documenting any of his behaviour, history etc (this would raise probability, not the best reason but a reason is better then no reason).

 

Taking gods existence as a fact based on faith is intentional ignorance and a sign of unwillingness to learn is it not?

Edited by 3dshocker

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the last part about brain ..that was Einstein.

Good story though. :D

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:D

 

Are you saying that you believe in God?

Well then that doesnt make you an atheist.

 

:D

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This whole episode was obviously written by someone who wants to make atheists look stupid and theists look smart. Atheists don't subscribe to duality. That is actually a theistic belief. So, I would agree that the professor has no brain. He's not real and merely the creation of some Muslim writer.

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:D

 

Are you saying that you believe in God?

Well then that doesnt make you an atheist.

 

:D

ooh geez...another one.....just cuz I'd argue against someone who says god doesn't exist doesn't mean I believe god exists. Google atheism and get answers from an atheist source if your confused about this.

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Yes, this story has been around for decades in different guises, this is simply a reworking of it. I remember getting a pamphlet on my car once with a cartoon depicting something similar. Here is some additional info on that and other similar stories involving a professor and a religious student showing the common theme:

 

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.snopes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/religion/einstein.asp"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.snopes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/religion/einstein.asp[/url]

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alternatively it should of been like this:

 

Student: can you see pain

 

Prof: No

 

Student: can you hear pain

 

Prof: No

 

Student: smell it

 

Prof: No

 

Student: touch it

 

Prof: No dammit,

 

(Student then slaps proffy in the face)

 

Student: but you know its there :D :D

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alternatively it should of been like this:

 

Student: can you see pain

 

Prof: No

 

Student: can you hear pain

 

Prof: No

 

Student: smell it

 

Prof: No

 

Student: touch it

 

Prof: No dammit,

 

(Student then slaps proffy in the face)

 

Student: but you know its there :D :D

yeah there are things that you can't know using all four of you senses..

All four of them....(pun intended) :D

Edited by llogical

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yeah there are things that you can't know using all four of you senses..

All four of them....(pun intended) :D

 

What pun?

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Atheism is just the absence of belief in God. Imagine an invisible Unicorn that lives in my back yard, it is undetectable by all known methods. Not believing in it's existence is the atheistic position, admitting the possibilty of it's existence is the agnostic one. (I won't finish the though because some may find it offensive).

.

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Athiest Limited comprehension of God almighty is what causes them to draw their conclusions , its a shame that they will not see the truth till their souls leaves their bodies .

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Athiest Limited comprehension of God almighty is what causes them to draw their conclusions , its a shame that they will not see the truth till their souls leaves their bodies .

 

So show me first that there is a god, and second that your god is the one i should pray to.

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So show me first that there is a god, and second that your god is the one i should pray to.

 

Its not for me to show my freind .

 

Its for you to seek and find and understand and submit .

 

:D

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What pun?

All 4 senses..c'mon we have five senses...i think :D

do u really have a unicorn ? :D

God or no god..I think that I'm too dumb to understand..Now the Good ole God

(if exists) ideally won't throw people in hellfire for being stupid.1087.gif

peace

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Am new to this forum. I have heard of people who don't believe in God but never ever had an encounter with any. Today is my first. It is shocking to read the post of people who ACTUALLY believe God doesn't exist. :D

I must say I really do feel sorry for them and hope and pray that they would see the light one day (before death overtakes them).

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Am new to this forum. I have heard of people who don't believe in God but never ever had an encounter with any. Today is my first. It is shocking to read the post of people who ACTUALLY believe God doesn't exist. :D

I must say I really do feel sorry for them and hope and pray that they would see the light one day (before death overtakes them).

:D AAmeen. :D

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Am new to this forum. I have heard of people who don't believe in God but never ever had an encounter with any. Today is my first. It is shocking to read the post of people who ACTUALLY believe God doesn't exist. :D

I must say I really do feel sorry for them and hope and pray that they would see the light one day (before death overtakes them).

 

GOD DAMN IT, I can't believe it ?????

 

 

You have never encountered an atheist ?? Truely ?? really ?? Nah your kindding ? :D

 

Do you only read and accept what you want to except or are told ?

 

This professor/student conversation is getting old :D

 

I mean cold and hot isn't it ?? :D

 

The Touch sense is feeling isn't it ? So of course you can feel pain !

I mean the brain doesn't exist ? You wouldn't have your five senses without it ! How Stupid !!!

 

I guess if the unicorn in the backyard was offeriing eternal life when I die I would believe it :D

 

You take this religious stuff too seriously ! B) :)

 

Real

 

remark seen as offensive removed by amani

Edited by amani

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GOD DAMN IT, I can't believe it ?????

 

 

You have never encountered an atheist ?? Truely ?? really ?? Nah your kindding ? :D

 

Do you only read and accept what you want to except or are told ?

 

On my own side of the world people believe in God and concept of an athetist or homosexual is completely foreign to us (its something you hear about but never see). Because you own society is full of it and someone else has never encountered it doesn't mean that person is living in a cage

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GOD DAMN IT, I can't believe it ?????

 

 

You have never encountered an atheist ?? Truely ?? really ?? Nah your kindding ? :D

 

Do you only read and accept what you want to except or are told ?

 

This professor/student conversation is getting old :D

 

I mean cold and hot isn't it ?? :D

 

The Touch sense is feeling isn't it ? So of course you can feel pain !

I mean the brain doesn't exist ? You wouldn't have your five senses without it ! How Stupid !!!

 

I guess if the unicorn in the backyard was offeriing eternal life when I die I would believe it :D

 

You take this religious stuff too seriously ! B) :D

 

Real

 

But I like the story bcaz it makes the professor look dumb :)

When I first heard it..I was like... all u need to do is to crack the skull open and wallah...here's the brain

(preferably the student's skull )

That's the beauty of a physical world..everything can be proven.

 

peace

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Guest amani

^^^^^ and all you need to do is look around you, at the trees, the ground ,yourself other people, plants, animals to know there is a Creator :D

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I'd like to add the public testimony of a science fiction author named John Wright.

 

He was a die-hard athiest and yet found God in spite of himself. He became a Christian, but it is my hope that the Muslims here will also be blessed by God's capacity to make himself known to the hardest heart. Here is his story in his own words:

 

Is a Near Death Experience a sufficient philosophical basis to justify a

conversion? The question contains a structural assumption about the nature

of the human thought process which my conversion experience brought into

question. If you do not believe in the supernatural, no supernatural

explanation of the conversion process sounds convincing. But, of course, the

question of whether or not the supernatural exists at all is the crux (if I

may muse that word) of the matter. If it exists, it can act even on those

who do not believe in it. If it exists, its actions would be supernatural,

that is, not something for which a complete account can be rendered in

natural terms.

 

My conversion was in two parts: a natural part and a supernatural part.

Here is the natural part: first, over a period of two years my hatred toward

Christianity eroded due to my philosophical inquiries.

Rest assured, I take the logical process of philosophy very seriously, and I

am impatient with anyone who is not a rigorous and trained thinker. Reason

is the tool men use to determine if their statements about reality are

valid: there is no other. Those who do not or cannot reason are little

better than slaves, because their lives are controlled by the ideas of other

men, ideas they have not examined.

 

To my surprise and alarm, I found that, step by step, logic drove me to

conclusions no modern philosophy shared, but only this ancient and (as I saw

it then) corrupt and superstitious foolery called the Church. Each time I

followed the argument fearlessly where it lead, it kept leading me, one

remorseless rational step at a time, to a position the Church had been

maintaining for more than a thousand years. That haunted me.

Second, I began to notice how shallow, either simply optimistic or simply

pessimistic, other philosophies and views of life were.

 

The public conduct of my fellow atheists was so lacking in sobriety and

gravity that I began to wonder why, if we atheists had a hammerlock on

truth, so much of what we said was pointless or naive. I remember listening

to a fellow atheist telling me how wonderful the world would be once

religion was swept into the dustbin of history, and I realized the chap knew

nothing about history. If atheism solved all human woe, then the Soviet

Union would have been an empire of joy and dancing bunnies, instead of the

land of corpses.

 

I would listen to my fellow atheists, and they would sound as innocent of

any notion of what real human life was like as the Man from Mars who has

never met human beings or even heard clear rumors of them. Then I would read

something written by Christian men of letters, Tolkien, Lewis, or G.K.

Chesterton, and see a solid understanding of the joys and woes of human

life. They were mature men.

 

I would look at the rigorous logic of St. Thomas Aquinas, the complexity and

thoroughness of his reasoning, and compare that to the scattered and

mentally incoherent sentimentality of some poseur like Nietzsche or Sartre.

I can tell the difference between a rigorous argument and shrill

psychological flatulence. I can see the difference between a dwarf and a

giant.

 

My wife is a Christian and is extraordinary patient, logical, and

philosophical. For years I would challenge and condemn her beliefs,

battering the structure of her conclusions with every argument, analogy, and

evidence I could bring to bear. I am a very argumentative man, and I am as

fell and subtle as a serpent in debate. All my arts failed against her. At

last I was forced to conclude that, like non-Euclidian geometry, her

world-view logically followed from its axioms (although the axioms were

radically mystical, and I rejected them with contempt). Her persistence

compared favorably to the behavior of my fellow atheists, most of whom

cannot utter any argument more mentally alert than a silly ad Hominem

attack. Once again, I saw that I was confronting a mature and serious

world-view, not merely a tissue of fables and superstitions.

 

Third, a friend of mine asked me what evidence, if any, would be sufficient

to convince me that the supernatural existed. This question stumped me. My

philosophy at the time excluded the contemplation of the supernatural

axiomatically: by definition (my definition) even the word "super-natural"

was a contradiction in terms. Logic then said that, if my conclusions were

definitional, they were circular. I was assuming the conclusion of the

subject matter in dispute.

 

Now, my philosophy at the time was as rigorous and exact as 35 years of

study could make it (I started philosophy when I was seven). This meant

there was no point for reasonable doubt in the foundational structure of my

axioms, definitions, and common notions. This meant that, logically, even if

God existed, and manifested Himself to me, my philosophy would force me to

reject the evidence of my senses, and dismiss any manifestations as a

coincidence, hallucination, or dream. Under this hypothetical, my philosophy

would force me to an exactly wrong conclusion due to structural errors of

assumption.

 

A philosopher (and I mean a serious and manly philosopher, not a sophomoric

boy) does not use philosophy to flinch away from truth or hide from it. A

philosophy composed of structural false-to-facts assumptions is

insupportable.

 

A philosopher goes where the truth leads, and has no patience with mere

emotion.

 

But it was impossible, logically impossible, that I should ever believe in

such nonsense as to believe in the supernatural. It would be a miracle to

get me to believe in miracles.

 

[continued]

Edited by me

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[continued]

 

So I prayed. "Dear God, I know (because I can prove it with the certainty

that a geometer can prove opposite angles are equal) that you do not exist.

Nonetheless, as a scholar, I am forced to entertain the hypothetical

possibility that I am mistaken. So just in case I am mistaken, please reveal

yourself to me in some fashion that will prove your case. If you do not

answer, I can safely assume that either you do not care whether I believe in

you, or that you have no power to produce evidence to persuade me. The

former argues you not beneficent, the latter not omnipotent: in either case

unworthy of worship. If you do not exist, this prayer is merely words in the

air, and I loose nothing but a bit of my dignity. Thanking you in advance

for your kind cooperation in this matter, John Wright."

 

I had a heart attack two days later. God obviously has a sense of humor as

well as a sense of timing.

 

Now for the supernatural part.

 

My wife called someone from her Church, which is a denomination that

practices healing through prayer. My wife read a passage from their

writings, and the pain vanished. If this was a coincidence, then, by God, I

could use more coincidences like that in my life.

 

Feeling fit, I nonetheless went to the hospital, so find out what had

happened to me. The diagnosis was grave, and a quintuple bypass heart

surgery was ordered. So I was in the hospital for a few days.

 

Those were the happiest days of my life. A sense of peace and confidence, a

peace that passes all understanding, like a field of energy entered my body.

I grew aware of a spiritual dimension of reality of which I had hitherto

been unaware. It was like a man born blind suddenly receiving sight.

 

The Truth to which my lifetime as a philosopher had been devoted turned out

to be a living thing. It turned and looked at me. Something from beyond the

reach of time and space, more fundamental than reality, reached across the

universe and broke into my soul and changed me. This was not a case of

defense and prosecution laying out evidence for my reason to pick through: I

was altered down to the root of my being.

 

It was like falling in love. If you have not been in love, I cannot explain

it. If you have, you will raise a glass with me in toast.

 

Naturally, I was overjoyed. First, I discovered that the death sentence

under which all life suffers no longer applied to me. The governor, so to

speak, had phoned. Second, imagine how puffed up with pride youd be to find

out you were the son of Caesar, and all the empire would be yours. How much

more, then, to find out you were the child of God?

 

I was also able to perform, for the first time in my life, the act which I

had studied philosophy all my life to perform, which is, to put aside all

fear of death. The Roman Stoics, whom I so admire, speak volumes about this

philosophical fortitude. But their lessons could not teach me this virtue.

The blessing of the Holy Spirit could and did impart it to me, as a gift. So

the thing I've been seeking my whole life was now mine.

 

Then, just to make sure I was flooded with evidence, I received three

visions like Scrooge being visited by three ghosts. I was not drugged or

semiconscious, I was perfectly alert and in my right wits.

 

It was not a dream. I have had dreams every night of my life. I know what a

dream is. It was not a hallucination. I know someone who suffers from

hallucinations, and I know the signs. Those signs were not present here.

Then, just to make even more sure that I was flooded with overwhelming

evidence, I had a religious experience. This is separate from the visions,

and took place several days after my release from the hospital, when my

health was moderately well. I was not taking any pain-killers, by the way,

because I found that prayer could banish pain in moments.

 

During this experience, I became aware of the origin of all thought, the

underlying oneness of the universe, the nature of time: the paradox of

determinism and free will was resolved for me. I saw and experienced part of

the workings of a mind infinitely superior to mine, a mind able to count

every atom in the universe, filled with paternal love and jovial good humor.

The cosmos created by the thought of this mind was as intricate as a

symphony, with themes and reflections repeating themselves forward and

backward through time: prophecy is the awareness that a current theme is the

foreshadowing of the same theme destined to emerge with greater clarity

later. A prophet is one who is in tune, so to speak, with the music of the

cosmos.

 

The illusionary nature of pain, and the logical impossibility of death, were

part of the things I was shown.

 

Now, as far as these experiences go, they are not unique. They are not even

unusual. More people have had religious experiences than have seen the far

side of the moon. Dogmas disagree, but mystics are strangely (I am tempted

to say mystically) in agreement.

 

The things I was shown have echoes both in pagan and Christian tradition,

both Eastern and Western (although, with apologies to my pagan friends, I

see that Christianity is the clearest expression of these themes, and also

has a logical and ethical character other religions expressions lack).

Further, the world view implied by taking this vision seriously (1) gives

supernatural sanction to conclusions only painfully reached by logic (2)

supports and justifies a mature rather than simplistic world-view (3) fits

in with the majority traditions not merely of the West, but also, in a

limited way, with the East.

 

As a side issue, the solution of various philosophical conundrums, like the

problem of the one and the many, mind-body duality, determinism and

indeterminism, and so on, is an added benefit. If you are familiar with such

things, I follow the panentheist idealism of Bishop Berkeley; and, no, Mr.

Johnson does not refute him merely by kicking a stone.

 

From that time to this, I have had prayers answered and seen miracles: each

individually could be explained away as a coincidence by a skeptic, but not

taken as a whole. From that time to this, I continue to be aware of the Holy

Spirit within me, like feeling a heartbeat. It is a primary impression

coming not through the medium of the senses: an intuitive axiom, like the

knowledge of one's own self-being.

 

This, then, is the final answer to your question: it would not be rational

for me to doubt something of which I am aware on a primary and fundamental

level.

 

Occam's razor cuts out hallucination or dream as a likely explanation for my

experiences. In order to fit these experiences into an atheist framework, I

would have to resort to endless ad hoc explanations: this lacks the elegance

of geometers and parsimony of philosophers.

 

I would also have to assume all the great thinkers of history were fools.

While I was perfectly content to support this belief back in my atheist

days, this is a flattering conceit difficult to maintain seriously.

 

On a pragmatic level, I am somewhat more useful to my fellow man than

before, and certainly more charitable. If it is a daydream, why wake me up?

My neighbors will not thank you if I stop believing in the mystical

brotherhood of man.

 

Besides, the atheist non-god is not going to send me to non-hell for my

lapse of non-faith if it should turn out that I am mistaken.

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