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Why Do You Think Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross?

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Peace from our Lord,

There are so many contradictions of the New Testament regarding the so-called crucifixion (or cru-fiction) of Jesus so the contradictions have invalidated the so-called crucifixion of Jesus. For example the writers of the Acts claimed that Jesus was hanged on a tree but the writers of the Gospels claimed that Jesus was crucfied on the cross.

When I look into the original Greek, the word used in Acts 5:39; 10:30 is wood. The cross was wooden there is no contradiction. Which translation say "tree"?

 

Can you win a case by giving contradictory statements in the court?

If two witnesses say verbatim the same, a cautious judge will become suspicious. You listened to people who blew insignificant differences into "contradictions", it would be rather easy to find such "contradictions" anywhere, including the Qor'an.

 

The Christians claim that Jesus was resurrected but the Bible itself say that there is to be no resurrection of the dead

Really?

Job 7:9

Thats not about resurrection in general, the verse states that a dead person will not return to the house he lived. Spoken by a man who had to suffer according to God's will, without knowing why.

 

Eccl 9:5

This is not about resurrection, but about the present state of the dead.

 

Is 26:14

I'm not sure, but I think this is not meant literally, but figuratively.

 

The Gospel of Barnaba says that it was Judas who was crucified to death for betraying Jesus. How did it happen? God made Judas to look like Jesus!

Why do You mention a fabrication from about 700 A.H.? Better look into the *

*anti-Islamic link deleted by yusufar (14.8.2006)

Edited by yusufar

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Peace from our Lord,

God Almighty does not have to repeat every information many times. Jesus was taken completely without any injury with body and soul. No one was able to harm him, neither the Jews nor the Romans. This is a pure fact and the inevidable truth.

Inevitable? You lost me, I did not any argument, and definitively no "inevitable" argument.

 

The bible shows us the event of the crucifiction but they do not show that it was Jesus himself who was Jesus.

You can read it in the bible so mmany times that it was Jesus, what You say is like stating the Qor'an never says Muhammad was a messenger from God. Sorry, I can't take that serios.

 

All four accounts of his crucifiction are different.

Different, but not contradictory.

 

If you ever read the Apocalypse of Peter then you would know that even early Christians believed that he was not crucified.

The apocalipse of Peter is from the 2nd century, I wonder what you mean by "early christians". There is no text from the 1st century, neither from the NT, nor from non-biblical christians text, not even written by a pagan who mentioned Christians in some way, that say anything different than: Jesus died on the cross.

You throw away the earliest sources available, You doi not respect the books revealed to our messengers, but speak of a second century text that is no holy book. and than You expect to find there anything about early Christians? :D

 

You wish he died but we Muslims love and believe that he is alive and that Allah never allowed anyone to harm him at all.

you believe it so striong that you prefer to turn to secondary evidence instead of facing the truth.

 

If the Qur'an and Hadeeth were full of evidence you would not believe.

If they were full of evidence that they confirm what the Bible says, I would certainly believe them. but you try to convince me the Qor'an contains the error that Jesus did not die on the cross - why should I believe this?

 

Galatians 1:8.But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

æáßä Çä ÈÔÑäÇßã äÃä Çæ ãáÇß ãä ÇáÓãÇà ÈÛíÑ ãÇ ÈÔÑäÇßã Ãáíßä ÇäÇËíãÇ. .8

 

You don't accept the Qur'an as the Divine Revelation. This is your problem

You don't accept the Bible as reliable, uncorrupted revelation. this is Your problem. If you solve this problem then the other questions would not be asked anymore.

 

You do not have any other guidance except Al-Qur'an and the Sunnah of the prophet Muhammad, salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam.

The Spirit of God tells me otherwise.

 

Additionally, you believe and say that Jesus is the Slave and Servant of God, that Paradise is True and the Hellfire is true.

Yes.

 

Decide to live by Al-Qur'an and the Sunnah and abandon to follow the Bible which is full of misguiding information which was alterated by those who worshipped Mary and Jesus,

No, it was not alterated. What you say is wishful thinking.

 

Roman Latin Catholics Church and the Greek Catholic Church. The Bible is full of confusion and misinformation, and information that defamed the honour of the prophets. Those who altered the bible where those who neglected the prophets and they hated them

First You mention people that venerated the prophets up to the point of shirq, and then you call them people who hated the prophets. This clearly shows you don't know what You are speaking about. This kind of ignorance about Christians should not come with the attitude "we know it all better".

 

In the bible, the prophet Sulayman, alayhi salam, became an idol-worshipper and ran after women and they let him astray. Qur'an prove us that King Solomon never worshipped idols and he never committed a sin.

Thats teaching shirq: No man is withoiut sin, only God.

 

Gnosticism had a great influence on perserving and editing the bible and there falsehood is included in the bible, believe it or not.

Thats no matter of belief, it is of konwledge. Gnostics had their own books, what yoiu say is almost as if I would claim Musailima had a great influence on the preservation of the Qor'an.

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QUOTE(belle74311 [at] May 8 2006, 08:12 PM)

 

You know...there is NO PROOF even in the BIBLE that Jesus (pbuh) died! ALL of Jesus (pbuh's) diciples FLED and there was NO EYE WITNESS to the crucifixtion of Jesus (pbuh) by the diciples OR anyone else who wrote the bible. It was only from hear-say.

 

 

Looking by said: "John 19:33. but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

34. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

35. And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.

36. For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN."

[underlining added] You see, there have been people who saw it."

 

 

My response:

 

 

All the disciples of Jesus forsook him, and fled before 'crucifixion of Jesus' so they did not witness the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' >>> "But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled."(Matthew 26:56)!

 

Therefore the absence of all the disciples of Jesus had invalidated the so-called crucifixion of Jesus!

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QUOTE(Abdul2006 [at] Jun 10 2006, 03:44 AM)

 

There are so many contradictions of the New Testament regarding the so-called crucifixion (or cru-fiction) of Jesus so the contradictions have invalidated the so-called crucifixion of Jesus. For example the writers of the Acts claimed that Jesus was hanged on a tree but the writers of the Gospels claimed that Jesus was crucfied on the cross.

 

Looking by said: "When I look into the original Greek, the word used in Acts 5:39; 10:30 is wood. The cross was wooden there is no contradiction. Which translation say "tree"?"

 

 

My response:

 

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE . Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a TREE.

 

(b)Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of israel descend now from the CROSS, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

 

©Matthew 27:41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

Matthew27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of israel, let him now come down from the CROSS, and we will believe him.

 

 

The contradictions above have invalidated the so-called crucifixion of Jesus!

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Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:

 

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.†They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

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QUOTE

The Christians claim that Jesus was resurrected but the Bible itself say that there is to be no resurrection of the dead

 

Looking by said: Really?

 

QUOTE

Job 7:9

 

Looking by said: Thats not about resurrection in general, the verse states that a dead person will not return to the house he lived. Spoken by a man who had to suffer according to God's will, without knowing why.

 

 

My response:

 

Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.

 

Job 7:9 has clearly said that "he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more." which means that there will be no resurrection!

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Peace Krieger,

You need to study the Bible more.

 

"For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God, Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another."

 

Job 19:25-27

 

Job probably contains the earliest reference to the physical resurrection in the OT.

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Peace from our Lord,

Looking by said: "John 19:33. but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

34. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

35. And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.

36. For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN."

[underlining added] You see, there have been people who saw it."

This was evidence I gave.

 

My response:

All the disciples of Jesus forsook him, and fled before 'crucifixion of Jesus' so they did not witness the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' >>> "But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled."(Matthew 26:56)!

You repeat what you said before, you ignore this evidence. From Matthew 26:69-75 You can see that at least one disciple that fled later came to to the scene to see what happened, even before the crucifiction started. Which means your interpretation is wrong, due to overgeneralization.

 

And since you said nothing on the evidence I gave, I have to conclude that you close your eyes to the truth. You can correct this impression by answering to my arguments, instead of repeating what you said before.

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Peace from our Lord,

Looking by said: "When I look into the original Greek, the word used in Acts 5:39; 10:30 is wood. The cross was wooden there is no contradiction. Which translation say "tree"?"

My response:

 

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE . Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a TREE.

You didn't answer my question!

 

Acts 5:30. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.

Acts 10:39. "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

That was from the "New American Standard Bible". I repeat my question: Which translation says "tree"?

I explained what is written in the original Greek: wood.

 

The contradictions above have invalidated the so-called crucifixion of Jesus!

If I pick a suitable translation of the Qor'an, I will surely be able to find greater incongruencies than that. How on earth you got the idea a specific translation is the measure whether there are contradictions? I told you it was matter of translation, but you are too narrow-minded to understand what I said?

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Peace all,

 

Until one has fully comprehended the scriptures, please please please stop cherry-picking verses and omitting/ignoring the others that fully explain the story. This web site warns against Christians coming to the site and presenting a twisted view of Islam. This is a reasonable request. I don't have full knowledge of Islam, and so you will never see me comment on what Islam says.

 

I think it is equally reasonable that Muslims here not present a twisted view of Christianity. Truth has a value all its own. We cannot understand each other if we don't acknowledge that there are good reasons for why we each believe what we believe. There is a lot we disagree over, but it doesn't help when the facts about what the Bible says or what Christians believe is buried in misinformation and half-truths. If we are going to stumble together, let us at least stumble over the truth!

 

All the disciples of Jesus forsook him, and fled before 'crucifixion of Jesus' so they did not witness the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' >>> "But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled."(Matthew 26:56)!

 

Therefore the absence of all the disciples of Jesus had invalidated the so-called crucifixion of Jesus!

 

This statement defies logic. Jesus' experience on the cross is completely unrelated to who sees it. It's like saying a tree doesn't fall in the woods because no one was around to see it.

 

Second, it is simply untrue. Deedat used this line of reasoning on Josh McDowell, who then promptly blew it to bits.

 

Yes, the disciples fled at Jesus' arrest. Several of the people who followed Jesus then returned to follow the trial and death.

 

If you read Matthew 26:69 you find Peter in the courtyard of Caiaphas, who witnesses the trial.

 

Matthew 27:55 mentions that many of the women who had followed Jesus witnessed the crucifixion. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.

 

Mark 14:50-54 agrees with the account of Matthew:

Then everyone deserted him and fled. A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.

They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, elders and teachers of the law came together. Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest.

 

Mark 15:40-41 also asserts that there were women who witnessed Jesus' death on the cross. These were people who had known Jesus for his whole ministry.

Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there.

 

Luke 22:54 states:

Then seizing him, they led him away and took him into the house of the high priest. Peter followed at a distance.

 

Luke 23:46-49 says of the crucifixion:

Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, "Surely this was a righteous man." When all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place, they beat their breasts and went away. But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

 

The gospel of John gives us the closest look at the arrest, trial and death of Jesus.

 

John 18:15-16:

Simon Peter and another disciple were following Jesus. Because this disciple was known to the high priest, he went with Jesus into the high priest's courtyard, but Peter had to wait outside at the door.

 

John 19:25-30 gives us more witnesses:

Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home. Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

Perhaps all of the disciples were not present, but there were many followers of Jesus who were there, including his own mother. Not only did the believers say Jesus was dead, but his enemies also stated he was dead. In addition to these parties, The Romans, who couldn't have cared less about Jesus also agreed he was dead.

 

To quote McDowell, "Pilate was a little amazed, and I would have been too, that Christ had already been dead, or that they had come and asked for the body. So, he called a centurion in. And he said, "I want you to go and confirm to me that Jesus is dead." Now men and women, this centurion was not a fool. He was not about ready to leave his wife a widow.

 

The centurion would always check with four different executioners. That was Roman law. There had to be four executioners. They did that so in case one man was a little lax, the other one would catch him in it, And you would never have all four lax in signing the death warrant. Discipline was severe with the Romans."

 

I would recommend to anyone interested to read a transcript of the debate between Ahmed Deedat and Josh McDowell about whether or not Jesus was crucified.

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Peace from our Lord,

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.†They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

Please, can someone who knows Arabic tell krieger the difference between the translation he uses and what is written in the Arabic original? I know that " (and they killed that man)" is not written there, I'm rather sure that there is no mention of "was put on another man", but I don't know Arabic to pin it down as could do it with his errors on the Bible. And I am tired to be bothered with arguments that are ridiculous.

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Grace and Peace from our Lord,

I would recommend to anyone interested to read a transcript of the debate between Ahmed Deedat and Josh McDowell about whether or not Jesus was crucified.

Where do I find such a transcript? If You can't post it openly here, please send the url by PM.

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Grace and Peace from our Lord,

 

Where do I find such a transcript? If You can't post it openly here, please send the url by PM.

PM sent.

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PM sent.

 

Grace and Peace me,

 

I would like to read this as well please.

 

Thank you me.

 

Peace and God Bless.

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Looking by said: "When I look into the original Greek, the word used in Acts 5:39; 10:30 is wood. The cross was wooden there is no contradiction. Which translation say "tree"?"

 

 

Krieger said:

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE . Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a TREE.

 

Looking by said: You didn't answer my question!

Acts 5:30. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.

Acts 10:39. "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

That was from the "New American Standard Bible". I repeat my question: Which translation says "tree"?

I explained what is written in the original Greek: wood.

 

 

My response:

 

I refute your statements by showing the verses that say that Jesus was hanged on a tree while some Gospels claim that he was crucifed on the CROSS !!!!

 

King James Version (KJV) Acts 5 :30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE.

 

New American Bible Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

 

Acts 5:30 (New International Version) The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.

 

It seems to me that you are lying by twisting the verses of the New Testament!

 

The differences, misintepretations and mistranslations, errors and the contradictions between the Greek versions and the English versions of the New Testaments have proven that the New Testament is corrupt and unreliable! After all Jesus did not preach in Greek!

 

Therefore the so-called crucifixion of Jesus did not exist at all due to the contradictions of the New Testament! After all the earliest Gospel was written more than 70 years after Jesus was gone so he was not there to correct errors and contradictions of the NT!!

Edited by Krieger

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QUOTE(Krieger [at] Jun 21 2006, 05:33 PM)

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.†They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

 

Looking by said: Please, can someone who knows Arabic tell krieger the difference between the translation he uses and what is written in the Arabic original? I know that " (and they killed that man)" is not written there, I'm rather sure that there is no mention of "was put on another man", but I don't know Arabic to pin it down as could do it with his errors on the Bible. And I am tired to be bothered with arguments that are ridiculous.

 

 

My response:

 

They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.†They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

Do you see the relationship between the word 'They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus' and 'the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)' ???

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Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

Nope, You seem not to understand figurative language.

You got the wrong translation, the translation I usually cite here says:

Revelation 13:8. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain

.8

From a strictly linguistic viewpoint, both translations are possible. Please chose the sensible one.

Revelation 5:12. saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."

.12

The same words that are used to praise God in Revelation 4:11.

You gave no details how am I supposed to answer that?

Which verse? I guess V.8.

I don't see anything like that in the YLT as provided on the net at the (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_unbound.biola.edu/"]unbound Bible site[/url]. Who told You that nonsense?

The Gospels books were originally greek, the Pauline letters were originally Greek, indeed almost all scholars agree that every book of the NT was originally in Greek. The only book I heard a different opinion (by one scholar, not by the majority) is revelation.

Peace from our Lord,

 

I dont understand figurative language you say? Do YOU understand? Why havent you shown the "true" meaning of the "lamb with two horns"??

 

I got the wrong translation? Dont know, I was using YLT again.

 

Just because same words are used doesnt mean the Lamb is God, because the book of Revelation itself distinguishes between the Lamb and God in Revelation 7.

We use words like "Rahmaan" for people and for Allah, doesnt mean they are the same...

 

Let me explain YLT for you. In YLT the COMMENTARIES and INTERPRETATIONS are put inside brackets or between lines, like so -- and ()

The part about Jesus being crucified is inside brackets too, which shows they were words of a scribe and not a part of the Bible. The original scribe probably didnt mean it to be part of the text, but for some reason it later became part of the text...

 

Sorry, by "purified" I meant pure (Mutahhar).

 

Peace unto those who follow the Guidance

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Twice in the IF I was told Jesus dis not die on the cross. When I asked for evidence, a verse from the Qor'an was cited that stated, if You look close on it, that when Jesus died, it were not the Jews that killed Him. This is in accordings with the teaching of the Bible, so this verse is no evidence against Jesus dying on the cross.

 

After pointing it out, it seems no one could bring another verse from the Qor'an on that topic, there was just silence, if my memory doesn't betray me. So it seems there is no statement in the Qor'an that speaks against the death and resurrection of Jesus.

 

So, why do Muslim believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross? Is there a hadith about it, or is it pure invention by some Islamic scholars?

hang on , if the son can be killed, i.e., if the father was helpless enough to not helping his own son...then one day the father too will be killed...

yes you are correct by objecting that muslims dont think jesus was the son of god, but the fallacious claim to jesus being crucified is made by those that say he was the son of god....

about a direct/indirect assertion of jesus not being killed,...there are a million other things about everyday life that are not directly or indirectly asserted in the quran...the quran is a basic/fundamental code, explained by the same man who narrated it to humanity...so the reason you are confused is that you intend to interpret the quran with your own experience of life which can NEVER perceive the Vocabulary that the ARAbs of 1400 years ago had...so you have no choice but to refer to the one who recited the quran to maNkind;,muhammad alaih assalaam.

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Someone said that the Muslim belief is that someone else was crucified in his place.

That is plain speculations, and therefore I feel that I have the right to refute this belief.

The Qur'an says that they didn't kill him nor crucified him.

If you look at either the English or Arabic word it means to be killed on the cross.

So if you were put on it and didn't die, you didn't get crucified.

To my intrepretation they indeed put him on the cross, but he survived, and therefore the Bible says that he was resurrected. But nowhere in the Bible does Jesus(AS) says that he was resurrected. Christians believes that Jesus(AS) died on the cross in a few hours, but what they usually fail to realise is that usually it takes approxiematly up to 3 to 4 days for someone to die on the cross. Some people have even called me a Kafir for these statements, but that is because they are ignorant of accepting other intrepretations of the Qur'an than their own. While they usually don't have any knowledge on the Torah and the Injeel, I infact have studied them very well.

I can read just about every Jesus(AS) word in the Bible, and several non-cannonical Gospels and accept them, because they doesn't contradict the Holy Qur'an when you examine the books. Some verses might seem strange, but if you look into the original language, you will see the different meanings of the words, and that they can be translated in other ways aswell. A translation is always a intrepretation since you use the words that fits your belief the best.

 

Allah knows best.

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The correct translation of the Qur'anic verse on the crucifixion should be .. THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR DID THEY CRUCIFIE HIM, BUT IT WAS MADE TO APPEAR SO(unto them).

 

Wich means that he wasnt murdered, they did not kill him on a cross, but it was made to appear so. Some translations even says that they did not put him on the cross, then again according to the learned I have talked to they say that it means to be killed on a cross, and not merely put on it. Even if these people might not agree with my intrepretation they agree that it is infact valid and doesnt contradict the Quran.

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Assalamu Alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

Someone said that the Muslim belief is that someone else was crucified in his place.

That is plain speculations, and therefore I feel that I have the right to refute this belief.

The Qur'an says that they didn't kill him nor crucified him.

If you look at either the English or Arabic word it means to be killed on the cross.

So if you were put on it and didn't die, you didn't get crucified.

 

Brother, the verse clearly states that he was NEITHER killed, NOR crucified. This means he was Not put on the Cross, and that he was also Not killed in Any other way.

There were some who believed Jesus was killed in a different way (some said he was hanged) but this verse clearly states that he was NOT KILLED and also he was Not Crucified.

 

However, I agree that the story about "someone else" being crucified instead who looked like Jesus is not certain. Infact, the story doesnt come from the Quran or Hadith, but from the "Gospel of Barnabas".

 

wassalam

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Greetings of peace

 

Isa, or Jesus, (pbuh) was one of the 5 major Apostles of God (Great and Holy is He) and was therefore spared by the loving mercy of his Lord and Cherisher. The Qur'an teaches us that all 5 Prophets (Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad) were sought to be slain by the enemies of God. By Divine Grace, their lives were saved.

 

There have been a number of Prophets who were indeed killed by their unbelieving foes, including Yahya (John the Baptist). They shall be the leaders of the martyrs on the Day of Recompense. Jesus the Christ (pbuh) beseeched his Lord to protect him from those who misconstrued their Messiah; his prayers were answered:

 

During the days of Jesus' life on Earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (Hebrews 5:7)

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I don't worship any creation. I worship the creator.

 

So u said u worsip the creator alone right?

 

Thats what the Islam Teaches... Also the Islamic Creed says Laa ilaaha Illal laah There is no god but, Allah..... And Allah is the Creator of Everything

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:D / Peace

 

 

 

Was Jesus - 'Isaa (a.s.)

raised

"Dead" or "Alive" ?

 

Recently I have received serious queries concerning 'Isaa (a.s.)'s final days. Here are the verses of the Qur'an on this important subject.

TWO IDENTICAL BLESSINGS FOR

TWO PROPHETS IN SURA MARYAM (19):

 

Verse Number 15 of Sura 19:

 

Translation by Yusuf Ali:

So Peace on him the day he was born the day that he dies and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)!

 

Translation by M. Asad:

Hence, [God's} peace was upon him on the day when he was born, and on the day of his death, and will be [upon him] on the day when he shall be raised to life [again]

 

Transliteration:

Was salaamun 'alayhi yawma wulida wa yawma yamuutu wa yawma yub-'asu hayyaa!

 

Verse Number 33 of Sura 19:

 

Translation by Yusuf Ali:

"So Peace is on me the day I was born the day that I die and the Day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

 

Translation by M. Asad:

"Hence, peace was upon me on the day when I was born, and [will be upon me] on the day of my death, and on the day when I shall be raised to life;! [again]"

 

Transliteration:

Was salaamun 'alayya yawma wulittu wa yawma yamuutu wa yawma yub-'asu hayyaa!

 

Important Notes:

 

1. The verse number 15 was Revealed in connection with

Prophet Yahya (a.s.) who is also known as John.

 

2. The verse number 33 was Revealed in connection with

Prophet 'Isaa (a.s.) who is also known as Jesus.

 

3. Please note the ORDER OF THE SEQUENCES OF THE EVENTS that

are mentioned in BOTH OF THESE VERSES. They are identical:

 

a) The Days of the BIRTHS of these two Prophets.

B) The Days of the DEATHS of these two Prophets.

c) The Days of the RAISING TO LIFE AGAIN of these two Prophets.

 

 

If one was to believe that Prophet 'Isaa (a.s.) i.e. Jesus Christ has been

RAISED UP ALIVE with his Physical BODY and he has yet to DIE the Physical DEATH at some future date, then that person has changed the ORDER OF THE REVEALED SEQUENCES OF EVENTS in verse 33 as well as the person has changed the intended meaning of this Revelation.

 

The following Verse 10: 15 clearly tells us that even the Prophet (s.a.s.) could not CHANGE THE TEXT that was once Revealed by Allah (swt).

 

Translation by Yusuf Ali:

But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us say: "Bring us a Reading other than this or change this." Say: "It is not for me of my own accord to change it: I follow naught but what is revealed unto me: if I were to disobey my Lord I should myself fear the Penalty of a Great Day (to come)."

 

VERSES WHEREIN THE WORD "rafa'a " IS MENTIONED:

 

Two translations of VERSE No. 4: 158

 

Transliteration:

Bar rafa'a -hu'allaahu 'ilayh; wa- kaan'allaahu 'Aziizan Hakiimaa;

 

a) Translation by Yusuf Ali:

Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power Wise. 4: 158

 

Commentary number 664 by Yusuf Ali to the above verse, as it appears in the original NON REVISED 1977 edition:

There is difference of opinion as to the exact interpretation of this verse. The words are: The Jews did not kill Jesus, but God raised him up (rafa'u) to Himself. One school holds that Jesus did not die the usual human death, but still lives in the body in heaven; another holds that he did die (v. 120) but not when he was supposed to have to be crucified, and that his being "raised up" unto God means that instead of being disgraced as a malefactor, as the Jews intended, he was on the contrary honoured by God as His Apostle; see also next verse. The same word rafa'a is used in association with honour in connection with Mustafa in xciv. 4.

 

Here is the transliteration and the translated text of verse 94: 4:

Wa rafa' naa laka dhikrak?

And raised high the esteem (in which) thou (art held)?

 

B) Translation by M. Asad:

Nay, God exalted him unto Himself - and God is indeed almighty, wise. 4: 158

 

Commentary Number 172 by M. Asad to the above verse reads:

Cf. 3:55, where God says to Jesus, "Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee to Me." The verb rafa'ahu (lit., "he raised him" or "elevated him") has always, whenever the act of raf' ("elevating") of human being is attributed to God, the meaning of "honouring" or "exalting". Nowhere in the Qur’an is there any warrant for the popular belief that God has "taken up" Jesus bodily, in his lifetime, into heaven. The expression "God exalted him unto Himself" in the above verse denotes the elevation of Jesus to the realm of God's special grace - a blessing in which all prophets partake, as it is evident from 19:57, where the verb rafa'nahu ("We exalted him") is used with regard to the Prophet Idris, (See also Muhammad Abduh in Manar III, 316 f., and VI, 20f.) The "nay" (bal) at the beginning of the sentence is meant to stress the contrast between belief of the Jesus that they had put Jesus to a shameful death on the cross and the fact of God's having "exalted him unto Himself."

 

Here is the text of verse 19: 57 for comparison:

And We raised him to a lofty station.

 

VERSE 3: 55: (wherein the word "rafa'a" is mentioned)

 

a) Translation by Yusuf Ali:

Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith to the Day of Resurrection....

 

B) Translation by M. Asad:

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection.....

 

Transliteration:

'Idh qaala 'allaahu yaa 'Isaa 'innii muta-waffika wa raafi 'uka 'ilayya wa mutahhi -ruka minalladhiina kafaruu wa jaa-'ilulladhii-nattaba 'uuka faw-qalladhiina kafaruu 'ilaa Yawmil Qiyaamah...

 

 

VERSE No. 2: 253 (wherein the word "rafa'a" is mentioned)

 

a) Translation by Yusuf Ali:

Those apostles We endowed with gifts some above others: to one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honor)...

 

B) Translation by M. Asad:

Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others, among them were such as were spoken to by God [Himself], and some He has raised yet higher...

 

Transliteration:

Tilka ar- rusulu faz.zalnaa ba'zahum 'alaa ba'z. Min -hum man kallama 'allaahu wa- rafa'a ba' zahum darajaat...

 

Verses 2: 63, 2: 93 and 4: 154

 

In these verses the word Rafa'naa is used in connection with the Mountain of Sinai (Tur-u-Sinin or Jabal Musa) in Arabia.

 

Did Allah (SWT) literally "LIFT" or raise the Mountain of Sinai high above the heads of Jews as a witness of their Pledge (Covenant) or "RAISED IN HONOUR" the Status of this lofty Mountain? The israelites were enjoying a special Status of being called the "Chosen People" (chosen to receive and spread the Message of Allah to mankind), during and prior to the days of Musa (a.s.). When Allah gave the 'Ten Commandments' and the 'Law' to His Messenger and took the solemn Covenant from the israelites that were encamped at the foot of this prominent mountain which is located in the Arabian desert, He raised the Status of Mountain (at-tur) higher than that of the defiant Jews and said: "Hold firmly to what We have given you (at at-tur) and bring to remembrance what is therein so that you might fear Allah"2: 63

 

 

VERSE No. 43: 61: (two distinctly separate renderings - the major cause of confusion)

 

a) Translation by Yusuf Ali:

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

 

Commentary number 4662 by Yusuf Ali to the above verse reads:

This is understood to refer to the second coming of Jesus in the Last Days before the Resurrection, when he will destroy the false doctrines that pass under his name, and prepare the way for the universal acceptance of Islam, the Gospel of Unity and Peace, the Straight Way of the Qur'an.

 

Please Note: The name of JESUS is mentioned by the translator within the brackets ( ). The name of Jesus does not appear in the original Arabic Text. The term DAJJAL is also not to be found in the Glorious Qur'an nor the supposed Battle between him and Jesus. Translator Abdullah Yusuf Ali was a Musta'aliyan Shiah.

 

B) Translation by M. Asad:

AND, BEHOLD, this [divine writ] is indeed a means to know [that] the Last Hour [is bound to come]; (41) hence, have no doubt whatever about it, but follow Me: this [alone] is a straight way.

 

Commentary Number 41 by M. Asad to the above verse reads:

Whereas most of the commentators regard the pronoun hu in innahu as relating to Jesus and, consequently, interpret the above phrase as "he is indeed a means to know [i.e., an indication of the coming of] the Last Hour", some authorities - e.g., Qatadah, Al-Hasan Al-Basri and Said ibn Jubayr (all of them quoted by Tabari, Badhawi and Ibn Kathir) - relate the pronoun to the Quran, and understand the phrase in the sense adopted in my rendering. The specific mention of the Last Hour in the above context is meant to stress man's ultimate responsibility before the Creator and, therefore, the fact that worship is due to Him alone: and so this parenthetic passage follows logically upon the mention of the false deification of Jesus.

 

Transliteration:

wa- innahu la- 'ilmul lis-Saa 'ti falaa tamtarunna bihaa wattabi 'uun haadhaa Siraatum Mustaqiim

 

Note: A careful study of the above quoted verses as well as the next verse indicates that Jesus Christ was not raised ALIVE with his Physical Body.

Allah (SWT) Exalted Jesus Christ and thus cleared him of the falsehoods.

 

Was Jesus Nailed to the Cross, but he did not Die on the Cross?

 

Please read carefully the Two translations and the Two commentaries to Verse number 4: 157:

 

a) Translation by Yusuf Ali:

That they said (in boast) "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah"; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not. 663

 

Commentary Number 663 by Yusuf Ali reads:

The end of the life of Jesus on earth is as much involved in mystery as his birth, and indeed the greater part of his private life, except the three main years of his ministry. It is not profitable to discuss the many doubts and conjectures among the early Christian sects and among Muslim theologians. The Orthodox Christian Churches make it a cardinal point of their doctrine that his life was taken on the Cross, that he died and was buried, that on the third day he rose in the body with his wounds intact, and walked about and conversed, and ate with his disciples, and was afterwards taken up bodily to heaven. This is necessary for the theological doctrine of blood sacrifice and vicarious atonement for sins, which is rejected by Islam. But some of the early Christian sects did not believe that Christ was killed on the Cross. The Basilidans believed that some one else was substituted for him. The Docetae held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but only an apparent or phantom body, and that his Crucifixion was only apparent, not real. The Marcionite Gospel (about A.D. 138) denied that Jesus was born, and merely said that he appeared in human form. The Gospel of St. Barnabas supported the theory of substitution on the Cross. The Quranic teaching is that Christ was not crucified nor killed by the Jews, notwithstanding certain apparent circumstances which produced that illusion in the minds of some of his enemies: that disputations, doubts, and conjectures on such matters are vain; and that he was taken up to Allah (see next verse and note).

 

NOTE: Earlier we have examined the verse 4: 158 and its note.

 

B) Translation by M. Asad of verse 4:157:

and in their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!" However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so; 171 and, verily, those who hold conflicting views thereon are indeed confused, having no [real] knowledge thereof, and following mere conjecture. For of a certainty, they did not slay him.

 

Commentary number 171 by M. Asad reads:

Thus, the Qur'an categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him [according to some accounts that person was Judas], who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these Legends finds the slightest support in the Qur'an or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connections by the classical commentators must be summarily rejected. They represent no more than confused attempts at "harmonizing" the Quranic statement that Jesus was not crucified with the graphic description, in the Gospels, of his crucifixion. The story of crucifixion as such has been succinctly explained in the Quranic phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, which I render as "but it only appeared to them as if it had been so" - implying that in the course of time, long after the time of Jesus, a legend had somehow grown up [possibly under the then-powerful influence of Mithraistic beliefs] to the effect that he had died on the cross in order to atone for the "original sin" with which mankind is allegedly burdened; and this legend became so firmly established among the latter-day followers of Jesus that even his enemies, the Jews, began to believe it - albeit in a derogatory sense [for crucifixion was, in those times, a heinous form of death penalty reserved for the lowest criminals]. This to my mind, is the only satisfactory explanation of the phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, the more so as the expression shubbiha li, "[a thing] became a fancied image to me", i.e., "in my mind" - in other words, "[it] seemed to me" [see Qamus, art. khayala, as well as Lane II, 833, and IV, 1500].

 

Transliteration of verse 4: 157:

Wa- qawlihim 'innaa qatalna al- Masiiha 'Iisaa ibn Maryama Rasuul 'allaah; wa- maa qataluuhu wa- maa salabuuhu wa- laakin shubbiha lahum; wa- 'innal-ladhiina ikhtalafuu fiihi la- fii shakkim minh: maa lahum bihii min 'il-min 'illat-tibaa 'azzann; wa- maa qataluuhu yaqiinaa;

TO CRUCIFY:

If one was to open an English Dictionary one would find that the verb

"crucify" means; "Put to death by fastening (or nailing) to a cross."

 

According to the "Swoon Theory" advocated by Sheikh Ahmed Deedat and discussed at length under the article The Qur'an does not say; *JESUS WAS SUBSTITUTED* on the CROSS on this web site, Jesus was nailed on the Cross but due to the short period of him being on the Cross for the reasons explained below, he simply fainted, went into a comma and did not die on the Cross .

 

Jesus was tried by the Roman Governor Pilate on the day of Preparation for the Passover at about noon (see John 19: 14). Thereafter Jesus was taken to the Place of the Skull (Golgotha), carrying his own Cross. Here he was nailed in the late afternoon. The Jews did not want the body of Jesus to be left on the Cross after the Sunset because of the Jewish Sabbath -- a day of great solemnity (see John 19: 31). The fainted Jesus was thus lowered only after a few hours of his nailing. Furthermore the Roman soldiers did not break the legs of Jesus (John 19: 32). Jesus was laid down on a big stone in a new rock tomb which was in the nearby garden. A large stone was placed to cover the big entrance of that rock tomb. A disciple of Jesus named Nicodemus wrapped the nailed and fainted body of Jesus, according to the burial customs of the Jews with linen cloths containing a mixture of myrrh, aloes and spices, weighing nearly hundred pounds (see John 19: 39). Jesus awoke and walked his way out of the tomb and sat in the garden expecting his disciples to show. When Mary Magdalene came to the garden in the early morning she saw the stone had been removed from the tomb (see John 20:1). Awakened Jesus spoke to Mary.

 

Jesus had fainted on the Cross but did not die. Hence, it is incorrect to say that Jesus was Crucified. Jesus was not "CRUCIFIED" but it only appeared to the people watching the Ceremony of the Crucifixion that he had been. The last line of the above verse, "For of a certainty, they did not slay him." supports this theory. When Jesus met his disciples in private, he showed them is nail marks to prove that he was yet in his original physical body in which he was nailed to the Cross. He was the same person with the same body. Since his enemies - the Jews, were not convinced that Jesus could have died on the Cross within such a short time, he withdrew from his disciples and lived the rest of his life in secret and died the natural death. The disciples, spread the word that they saw Jesus being "carried up into heaven" (Luke 24: 51) by angles.

 

Allah alone has the knowledge of the unseen and unknown...

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.mostmerciful(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/raised-dead-or-alive.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.mostmerciful(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/raised-dead-or-alive.htm[/url]

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Dear Looking By,

 

to get to the root of this. You beleive it makes more sense to go with the consistent consensus of all Christians that Jesus was crucified. Why do all Christians beleive this? Because all of the eye-witness accounts in the Bible report this consistantly.

 

And Muslims AGREE that the eye-witnesses who wrote the crucifixtion accounts in the Bible sincerely think that they saw that. In other words, no one is disputing that they thought they saw Jesus being crucified. Allah tells us that they think they saw that. He made it appear this way to them and closed their hearts because they were in rebellion against Him and the message that He sent the prophet Jesus with.

 

So in this argument no one can win. You beleive what you beleive because of the Bible says so, and we beleive what we beleive because the Qur'an says so. So we are at an impass.

 

Now, I am the daughter of protestant non-denominational Christians. My father was a pastor for 5 years and a missionary for 10. If any one has been thorougly emersed in Christianity, its doctrines, its history, the Bible and its commentaries it's me. And yet, here I am today a Muslim.

 

Why? Because of logic. I beleived Islam with every drop of logic I possesed for weeks before I could allow it to enter into my heart as well. It was like being in shock-- it made sense-- and it answered all my stifled questions that I'd had in Christianity (the ones where the pastor/youth leader/parent always ends up giving you the "you have to just have faith" or "we wont know until we get to heaven" answers). But at first it was so hard to accept that my parents were wrong. Everything I had ever been taught was wrong. It made perfect sense that it was wrong in my head, but in my heart I had trouble letting go. When I did though, I had an amazing peace and suddenly living a godly lifestyle was no longer the struggle it had always been.

 

I think you are ignoring the logical answers members of this thread have given you, and twisting them. You are looking for holes in Islam, trying to rip them out of the Cloth yourself. But it won't work.

 

Open your heart and take your head out of the sand (and I absolutely dont mean that in a rude way) and maybe then you'll really get some answers, insha'Allah.

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