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Real Truth Seeker

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The reason i'm here is not because I want to convert people to my religion or to my non-religion.

 

Muslims are people that believe in capital punishment and of course NO MUSIC (except music that has vocals and a drum while played not too fast !

They want to turn every country in the world into Islamic states !

This is the reason i'm here !

 

It is the opiate of the masses!

 

Just look at the contradictions in the text's !

 

Let's start with Muhammad's claim that:

 

[2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;

 

And now to question the claim:

 

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way.

 

Yet here is other statements about Muhammad's view on compulsion:

 

* "Allah's Apostle said, The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, book 83, number 17, narrated via Abdullah)

 

* Narrated 'Ikrima: 'Ali burnt some people and this news reached ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'" — Volume 4, Book 52, Chapter 149, Number 260. p. 160-161.

 

* 57. Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" — Volume 9, Book 84, Chapter 2, Number 57, page 45

 

 

* 271. Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle. — Volume 9, Book 89, Chapter 12, Number 271, p. 201.

 

There is no compulsion in religion, yet you are complused to stay in the religion otherwise you die. That's compulsion.

 

Big contradiction !!!

 

There are others too :D

 

Real

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PropellerAds

Well, you posted only two things that I see directly from the Koran, and are they really contradictory?? :D

 

1. There is no compulsion in religion.

2. This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;

 

 

Are these contradictory? :D

 

I came to Islam after looking at all religions, this took me several years. I used no compulsion. Yet I still see the Koran as infallible.

 

As for the capital punishment and no music..

 

1. I am against capital punishment because of speeches I heard by two people who were on death row for nearly 20 years before evidence surfaced that proved their innocence. This made me loose faith in our system. If we can't do it correctly, then we shouldn't do it at all.

 

2. Some people see music as a bad thing, but if you don't, thats pretty much up to you. I played bass guitar 7 years, guitar 4 years, string bass 4 years, and piano 2 years, and I do them for the love of the sound of music.

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Peace,

 

for starters 'Pete' has hit the nail in the head, if you cant implement capital punishment properly then it shoudnt be implemented at all... however im for it

 

secondly why would you leave the truth and follow falsehood for?

 

as 'Real' qutoed

 

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way.

 

thats simple enough, the right way is now DISTINCT from the wrong way...

 

should you allow a man to leave the right way and enter the wrong way?

 

also how many countrys have muslims turned unto Islamic States?

Edited by shaidmahmood

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no you are misinterpreting...

any "infallible principle " by definition dictates the parameters of strict penalty for whoever breaches it...

what all is at stake..?

the future of the entire race is...

and my dear cousin, every muslim lives his/her life seeking evidence against Islam...to feel free of the code...but every attempt at seeking proof against, results in affirmation/confirmation...that is why there are over 1.25 billion muslims and the number is growing...

so the infallible nature of the code....the EXXXTREME.significance of it to the entire human race...the damage that a zandeeq would do(and often out of some petti/personal grudge against some individual)...needs to be terminated like a malignanat body cell does...

ex...the black muslim presently being tried for his role in the 9/11 episode....why is the entire american nation sold on the idea 0f killing him?..for thier safety..to make a precedent...

so your argument is more a resentment .

read more...prejudice is the only barrier that keeps a man in utter ignorance.

thankyoyu for asking.

fare=well.

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We should have a topic posted saying, don't google in contradictions to the Quran, because there aren't ANY contradicitons in the Quran. Read the Quran, in full context, then ask ur questions.

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We should have a topic posted saying, don't google in contradictions to the Quran, because there aren't ANY contradicitons in the Quran. Read the Quran, in full context, then ask ur questions.

 

Well, I am just dumbfounded you don't understand the contradiction :D

 

 

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way.

 

Yet here is other statements about Muhammad's view on compulsion:

 

* "Allah's Apostle said, The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, book 83, number 17, narrated via Abdullah)

 

The compulsion is to stay in the religion ! Because you will die if you leave !

 

Also I am shocked about the (that's O.K.) attitude towards these acts. A so called prophet killing someone if he changes his religion ! So wrong, so wrong, so wrong !!!!

What more needs to be said "he eliminated people who disagreed with him, and to stop these people from talking against the religion he took their life ! He took their life, he took their bloody life, people! Wake up ! :D please :D ".

Islam is violent and intolerant. It's not all bad, obviously but there were dispicable acts commited by this muhumud that might be emulated by his followers !!

 

Spread the word !!!!!

 

Real

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Well, I am just dumbfounded you don't understand the contradiction :D

The compulsion is to stay in the religion ! Because you will die if you leave !

 

Also I am shocked about the (that's O.K.) attitude towards these acts. A so called prophet killing someone if he changes his religion ! So wrong, so wrong, so wrong !!!!

What more needs to be said "he eliminated people who disagreed with him, and to stop these people from talking against the religion he took their life ! He took their life, he took their bloody life, people! Wake up ! :D please :D ".

Islam is violent and intolerant. It's not all bad, obviously but there were dispicable acts commited by this muhumud that might be emulated by his followers !!

 

Spread the word !!!!!

 

Real

 

You haven't quoted any contradictions from the Quran.

You quoted from the Quran and then you took the rest from hadiths.

You can never be sure of how true what are stated in the books of hadiths are. Hadiths were written by men and most of them where written about a century after the prophet died.

 

The Quran abrogates anything stated in hadiths. It clearly states there is no compulsion in religion in the Quran. Show us where again in The Quran it states something contradictory

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A so called prophet killing someone if he changes his religion ! So wrong, so wrong, so wrong !!!!

What more needs to be said "he eliminated people who disagreed with him, and to stop these people from talking against the religion he took their life ! He took their life, he took their bloody life, people! Wake up ! :D please :D ".

Islam is violent and intolerant.

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Real

 

 

Could you refer to any specific emprical data to back up your opinions?

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Could you refer to any specific emprical data to back up your opinions?

 

He can't. just look at his diction and hysterical tone. It's obvious he's just ignorant.

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He does have a point though. The death penalty for apostacy in Islam is still uniformly agreed upon by almost all scholars. I searched for any existing Fatwas that state the opposite and found none. So yes there is a contradiction, not within the text itself, but between the text and what is practiced. Death for apostacy is the very definition of compulsion.

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Death for apostacy is the very definition of compulsion.

 

Absolutely. Personally I feel there should be no punishment for apostacy. After all, we have the courage of our convictions thatIslam is the ture religion and as such, why should we be afraid of the weak and misguided falling astray? They harm only themselves,not us and certainly not Islam.

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Absolutely. Personally I feel there should be no punishment for apostacy.

 

So...you're agreeing with Real Truth Seeker but you still think he's ignorant.

 

After all, we have the courage of our convictions thatIslam is the ture religion and as such, why should we be afraid of the weak and misguided falling astray? They harm only themselves,not us and certainly not Islam.

 

Yah, but thats the problem. It doesn't matter what you think personally. Or what I think. Its written in a text that is considered legitmate and is agreed upon by a group of people that have dedicated their life to studying Islam and are (on paper) alot more learned than you or I about the religion. It must all be very confusing to the non muslim who started this thread. Who do you believe? The 'moderate' muslims here who disagree with it or the learned scholar and the written word that agree? Hes boned either way really.

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