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Moishe3rd

How Do You Change The Terrorism Of The Islamic World?

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I am not sure if this is the right place in this Forum for this question, but I am sincere. Please direct me to the correct forum here, if this is not where I should be posting this.

Thank you....

 

There is a large faction of Muslims, tens of millions or more, of many stripes and beliefs who accept and promote the idea that the murder of innocents is perfectly allowable under the umbrella of Islamic Jihad. These Islamic Jihaddists are joined by Arabs who are nominally Muslim who also engage in this form of terrorism to promote their own nationalistic; pan-Arab; tribal; and despotic ends.

 

The majority of these murders are committed against their fellow Muslims and/or Arabs.

The daily attacks in Iraq; the assassinations and bombings in Pakistan; the battles in Afghanistan; the near civil war amongst the Arabs called Palestinians; are all examples of Muslims, claiming to be fighting for Islam, murdering their fellow Muslims.

Nonetheless, in addition to murdering their own fellow Muslims, Muslims continue to murder non-Muslims, from Nigeria to New York; from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia; and from Russia to israel,

The avowed goal of these Islamic Jihad death cultists is to make “their†faction of Islam the dominant religion on earth, conquering all others and establishing their Islamic hegemony over the world.

There is an overall Islamic obsession with murder and destruction in achieving these goals of world hegemony. The reason for these murders and destruction vary amongst the different Islamic factions:

They result from a belief that “their†land is being violated – such as their incessant attacks against israel.

They result from a belief that “their†culture is being violated – such as their attacks against the United States; India; Spain; Russia; and other non-Muslim countries.

And, they result simply from the idea that their religious beliefs are being violated – such as their Cartoon Jihad; the incessant internecine warfare between Shia, Sunni, and other Muslim factions; or their attacks against Arab or nominally Islamic countries throughout the Middle East, North Africa and Asia.

 

This kind of warfare, destruction and murder in the name of Islam has been ongoing since the inception of Islam. Due to the unlimited funding of the oil rich Muslim nations of the Middle East and through the advent of modern technology and communications, this Islamic Jihad desire for world dominance has grown and prospered over the last fifty years until we have the logical next step in this saga where a Muslim theocracy, Iran, proclaims that it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels.

 

This lust for blood and death appears to be an ongoing process that is never going to stop, unless the Islamists themselves begin preaching and teaching that death and destruction is not the way to world hegemony and that this deadly Jihad against the world is not the way to their Islamic heaven.

My question is then – how?

How does the world get Islam, a religion of over a billion adherents, with ten of millions or more who believe in their bloody Islamic Jihad, to stop murdering mass numbers of innocent people and to cease their goal of world conquest rooted in this orgy of death and destruction?

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I am not sure if this is the right place in this Forum for this question, but I am sincere. Please direct me to the correct forum here, if this is not where I should be posting this.

Thank you....

 

Greetings Moishe3rd,

 

Good to be sincere. So please do take the answers below sincerely as well.

 

There is a large faction of Muslims, tens of millions or more, of many stripes and beliefs who accept and promote the idea that the murder of innocents is perfectly allowable under the umbrella of Islamic Jihad. These Islamic Jihaddists are joined by Arabs who are nominally Muslim who also engage in this form of terrorism to promote their own nationalistic; pan-Arab; tribal; and despotic ends.

 

There is no such thing in Islam. Islam is against all forms of violence against innocent people, including non-combatants in war, including that done under the guise of "Islamic Jihad". Islam is against terrorism in any form and for any purpose. Strictly speaking, Islam also does not promote nationalistic, racialistic, tribal or despotic ends. Now, what some or even many "Muslims" do is something else and even unIslamic.

 

The majority of these murders are committed against their fellow Muslims and/or Arabs. The daily attacks in Iraq; the assassinations and bombings in Pakistan; the battles in Afghanistan; the near civil war amongst the Arabs called Palestinians; are all examples of Muslims, claiming to be fighting for Islam, murdering their fellow Muslims.

 

While this is to some extent true, US and other foreign intervention and occupation has also complicated the issue in all the places you mention, plus the decidely aggressive and state-sponsored terrorism of the israelis against the Palestinians. These factors must not be discounted.

 

Nonetheless, in addition to murdering their own fellow Muslims, Muslims continue to murder non-Muslims, from Nigeria to New York; from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia; and from Russia to israel

 

Oppression by dominant non-Muslim powers, including the US, israel and Russia who also commit murder against Muslims, is also a major factor in the rise of such unIslamic acts.

 

The avowed goal of these Islamic Jihad death cultists is to make “their” faction of Islam the dominant religion on earth, conquering all others and establishing their Islamic hegemony over the world.

 

This is not part of the real Islamic Agenda, which is more concerned about personal salvation. As far as Islam is concerned, the basic tenet is and has always been that there is no complusion in religion so there is no necessity for Islam to dominate anyone or to establish "Islamic" hegemony over the world.

 

There is an overall Islamic obsession with murder and destruction in achieving these goals of world hegemony.

 

There is NO such "Islamic" obsession. Application of the label "Islamic" to something which is essentially unIslamic is something which Western propaganda has largely been responsible for and which many people have fallen into the trap of, no thanks to the acts of some of these unnecessarily fanatic "Muslims" themselves. Islam gets the bad name because of this, when Islam actually condemns murder, destruction and even any ill-conceived quest for world hegemony.

 

The reason for these murders and destruction vary amongst the different Islamic factions:

 

They result from a belief that “their” land is being violated – such as their incessant attacks against israel.

 

They result from a belief that “their” culture is being violated – such as their attacks against the United States; India; Spain; Russia; and other non-Muslim countries.

 

And, they result simply from the idea that their religious beliefs are being violated – such as their Cartoon Jihad; the incessant internecine warfare between Shia, Sunni, and other Muslim factions; or their attacks against Arab or nominally Islamic countries throughout the Middle East, North Africa and Asia.

 

This kind of warfare, destruction and murder in the name of Islam has been ongoing since the inception of Islam.

 

Even if they call themselves "Islamic" they are far from it, if not totally out of it. As for "their" land being violated, that is true. The Jews may have had a "right" to the land at one time (having exterminated the Canaanites to establish that right), but that does not justify them taking it away from the Palestinians by force some 2000 years later after they had relinquished possession of it.

 

If every race or nation were to exert rights which were violated even a few hundred years ago by committing even greater violation of other innocent people's rights, there would be a never-ending cycle of violence and violation.

 

Violation begets further violation. Any attempt by anyone outside of Islam to insult or attempt to exert hegemony over Islamic or Muslim land, culture and religious beliefs will obviously be met with resistance, not all of which will be reasonable or proportionate.

 

It would be better if non-Muslims do not provoke Muslims and vice versa by engaging in such insults or attempts. There is a huge difference between reasoned and intelligent discourse and plain insulting, unreasonable and stupid provocations.

 

The very same warfare, destruction and murder in the name of Islam which you say has been ongoing since the inception of Islam, has been ongoing since the beginning of the world in the name of all kinds of beliefs, race, religion, power, systems, nations, communism, socialism, capitalism, democracy and what else have you and that includes Jews, israel, Christianity, US, Russia, etc. as well. Why single out Islam or what you think is "Islam"?

 

The Jews themselves have been responsible for much mayhem in the whole of the Middle East for centuries prior to being evicted by the Romans in 70 CE and today israel as an occupying power has caused far much more death, destruction, devastation and displacement to Palestinian lives, homes and livelihoods than that caused by Palestinians to israelis.

 

Due to the unlimited funding of the oil rich Muslim nations of the Middle East and through the advent of modern technology and communications, this Islamic Jihad desire for world dominance has grown and prospered over the last fifty years until we have the logical next step in this saga where a Muslim theocracy, Iran, proclaims that it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels.

 

This is nothing but Western and israeli propaganda. World domination has never been part of the Islamic agenda. Iran has NEVER proclaimed that "it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels". Where did you get this rubbish from?

 

The unlimited funding of the oil-rich Arab nations have benefitted the West more than Islam or Muslim nations.

 

The threats to use nuclear weapons have always come from the US and israel. Why shouldn't Islamic countries acquire such a deterrent as well, purely for self-defence?

 

This lust for blood and death appears to be an ongoing process that is never going to stop, unless the Islamists themselves begin preaching and teaching that death and destruction is not the way to world hegemony and that this deadly Jihad against the world is not the way to their Islamic heaven.

 

As long as there is foreign non-Muslim intervention in Islamic lands with its own capricious lust for blood and death, there will always be equally or more violent reactions, much of which will be against innocent people.

 

My question is then – how?

How does the world get Islam, a religion of over a billion adherents, with ten of millions or more who believe in their bloody Islamic Jihad, to stop murdering mass numbers of innocent people and to cease their goal of world conquest rooted in this orgy of death and destruction?

 

The answer is very simple. Stop provoking and insulting Islam and Muslims and cease interfering in Islamic or Muslim lands. Let Muslims take care of their own problems and the murderers in their own midst. Stop all foreign and foreign-directed or supported orgies of death and destruction in Muslim lands and of Muslims. Islam's 1 billion plus Muslims can police themselves. The real question is can non-Muslims restrain themselves?

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

Edited by yusufar

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(QUOTE)There is no such thing in Islam. Islam is against all forms of violence against innocent people, including non-combatants in war, including that done under the guise of "Islamic Jihad". Islam is against terrorism in any form and for any purpose. Strictly speaking, Islam also does not promote nationalistic, racialistic, tribal or despotic ends. Now, what some or even many "Muslims" do is something else and even unIslamic. (QUOTE)

 

Assalamu Alaikum,

 

brother are you condemning all forms of jihad?............... because the prophet SAW went on jihad.

 

ws

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(QUOTE)There is no such thing in Islam. Islam is against all forms of violence against innocent people, including non-combatants in war, including that done under the guise of "Islamic Jihad". Islam is against terrorism in any form and for any purpose. Strictly speaking, Islam also does not promote nationalistic, racialistic, tribal or despotic ends. Now, what some or even many "Muslims" do is something else and even unIslamic. (QUOTE)

 

Assalamu Alaikum,

 

brother are you condemning all forms of jihad?............... because the prophet SAW went on jihad.

 

ws

 

Wa alikumsalaam,

 

Far from it. Jihad is compulsory upon all Muslims when the conditions for it are met.

 

Wassalaam,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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Greetings Moishe3rd,

 

Good to be sincere. So please do take the answers below sincerely as well.

There is no such thing in Islam. Islam is against all forms of violence against innocent people, including non-combatants in war, including that done under the guise of "Islamic Jihad". Islam is against terrorism in any form and for any purpose. Strictly speaking, Islam also does not promote nationalistic, racialistic, tribal or despotic ends. Now, what some or even many "Muslims" do is something else and even unIslamic.

Are you writing that the people who proclaim Jihad against non-Muslims or other Muslims that they consider kufar, are themselves kufar, disbelievers, and are not really Muslim? That they are “unIslamic?â€

Are you writing that the Muslim religious leaders in Cairo; Riyadh; Tehran; London and Islamabad who praise the shahids, suicide bombers who deliberately target innocent people all over the world, including Indonesia; Pakistan; Afghanistan; Iraq and Spain; are all “unIslamic?â€

These religious leaders are teaching at the most prestigious Muslim universities. These religious leaders are the leaders of major Masjids in these countries. These religious leaders claim to speak for their populations and I have not heard of the majority of their populations repudiating their claims.

Can you please explain to me why these “Muslims†are “unIslamic?†And, if this is so, why don’t the hundreds of millions of Muslims who listen to these leaders condemn them for being “unIslamic?â€

While this is to some extent true, US and other foreign intervention and occupation has also complicated the issue in all the places you mention, plus the decidely aggressive and state-sponsored terrorism of the israelis against the Palestinians. These factors must not be discounted.

Interaction; invasion; intervention; and occupation has complicated life all over the planet earth for thousands of years. The Fatimid attacks against the Abbasid Caliphate complicated issues. The Mongol invasions of Dar Islam complicated issues. The Ottoman invasions of Eastern Europe complicated issues. This is an ongoing process. If foreign intervention and occupation is the main cause of the complications in the places I have mentioned, then why do other places, such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt have the exact same problems, only on a lesser scale due to their more tightly controlled restrictions on freedom?

Are you claiming that the different murders and assassinations of different Palestinian factions by other Palestinians is the fault of the israelis? Why?

Oppression by dominant non-Muslim powers, including the US, israel and Russia who also commit murder against Muslims, is also a major factor in the rise of such unIslamic acts.

I understand that you believe oppression is “a major factor,†as you have stated. But this seems to be a specious argument. There are more locations throughout the world where Muslims are the oppressors and where none of the powers you mention have any influence at all, such as Nigeria and Sudan, than there are locations that are somehow “oppressed†by the US, israel or Russia. If you want to claim that it is foreign oppression that causes these “unIslamic†acts, then how do you explain Sudan? Or Pakistan? Or the attacks outside of Dar Islam?

This is not part of the real Islamic Agenda, which is more concerned about personal salvation. As far as Islam is concerned, the basic tenet is and has always been that there is no complusion in religion so there is no necessity for Islam to dominate anyone or to establish "Islamic" hegemony over the world.

I appreciate that response, and I suspect you believe it. However, it does beg the question of how so many – tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of those who claim to be Muslim also claim that hegemony over the world is their goal.

There is NO such "Islamic" obsession. Application of the label "Islamic" to something which is essentially unIslamic is something which Western propaganda has largely been responsible for and which many people have fallen into the trap of, no thanks to the acts of some of these unnecessarily fanatic "Muslims" themselves. Islam gets the bad name because of this, when Islam actually condemns murder, destruction and even any ill-conceived quest for world hegemony.

This is good. I wish that your religious leaders would take the lead in doing so. I apologize, but your claim that this is so does not seem to be the claim of your religious leaders. I do not understand why you believe this, but they do not.

Your responses throughout your explanations seem to be at odds with what Muslim religious leaders; political leaders; journalists; and ordinary Muslims proclaim that they believe.

Even if they call themselves "Islamic" they are far from it, if not totally out of it. As for "their" land being violated, that is true. The Jews may have had a "right" to the land at one time (having exterminated the Canaanites to establish that right), but that does not justify them taking it away from the Palestinians by force some 2000 years later after they had relinquished possession of it

 

If every race or nation were to exert rights which were violated even a few hundred years ago by committing even greater violation of other innocent people's rights, there would be a never-ending cycle of violence and violation.

 

Violation begets further violation. Any attempt by anyone outside of Islam to insult or attempt to exert hegemony over Islamic or Muslim land, culture and religious beliefs will obviously be met with resistance, not all of which will be reasonable or proportionate.

 

It would be better if non-Muslims do not provoke Muslims and vice versa by engaging in such insults or attempts. There is a huge difference between reasoned and intelligent discourse and plain insulting, unreasonable and stupid provocations.

 

The very same warfare, destruction and murder in the name of Islam which you say has been ongoing since the inception of Islam, has been ongoing since the beginning of the world in the name of all kinds of beliefs, race, religion, power, systems, nations, communism, socialism, capitalism, democracy and what else have you and that includes Jews, israel, Christianity, US, Russia, etc. as well. Why single out Islam or what you think is "Islam"?

 

The Jews themselves have been responsible for much mayhem in the whole of the Middle East for centuries prior to being evicted by the Romans in 70 CE and today israel as an occupying power has caused far much more death, destruction, devastation and displacement to Palestinian lives, homes and livelihoods than that caused by Palestinians to israelis.

I do appreciate your responses, but you must realize that you are contradicting yourself every other paragraph.

On one hand, you claim that this kind of violence is “unIslamic.†And you claim that “Muslims†do not commit this kind of violence, but all of these other isms and nations do commit this kind of violence.

On the other hand, you claim that when Islam is “provoked†or “insulted†that it is to be expected that resistance to these provocations will not be “reasonable or proportionate.â€

That is disturbing. Not to mention entirely illogical.

This claim, which underlies most of what you are writing here, that it is natural and normal for those who are insulted to respond with overwhelming hatred and viciousness towards those who have wronged them, is very troubling.

Is that response also not “unIslamic?†I do not see where the deliberate murder of innocents, whether they be Muslims or Jews or Europeans or Americans, could ever be considered an “obvious†response to any provocation, no matter how unjustified.

This is nothing but Western and israeli propaganda. World domination has never been part of the Islamic agenda. Iran has NEVER proclaimed that "it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels". Where did you get this rubbish from?

 

The unlimited funding of the oil-rich Arab nations have benefitted the West more than Islam or Muslim nations.

 

The threats to use nuclear weapons have always come from the US and israel. Why shouldn't Islamic countries acquire such a deterrent as well, purely for self-defence?

Because there is no history of Muslim countries having ever been known for their intentions to use anything “purely for self-defense.†Most of the Muslim countries in the Middle East; North Africa; and Indonesia, have tried, either successfully or unsuccessfully, to invade neighboring countries (mostly other Islamic countries) and have certainly put down their own dissident populations with massive, overwhelming, brutal force. When they have had weapons, such as Saddam’s gas, they have used it. When they have not had these kinds of weapons, they have simply used overwhelming force in butchering whole populations such as Syria did in Hama in 1982 or even the Turkish massacre of the Armenians from 1915 to 1917.

Currently, the only threat that these countries face where they might need some sort of massive self-defense (now that the Soviet Union now longer exists) is from other Muslim countries.

As long as there is foreign non-Muslim intervention in Islamic lands with its own capricious lust for blood and death, there will always be equally or more violent reactions, much of which will be against innocent people.

Could you give me a current example of foreign intervention that has a “capricious lust for blood and death†in Islamic lands? And, again, why are violent reactions against innocent people justified? I was under the impression that you were claiming such reactions were “unIslamicâ€

The answer is very simple. Stop provoking and insulting Islam and Muslims and cease interfering in Islamic or Muslim lands. Let Muslims take care of their own problems and the murderers in their own midst. Stop all foreign and foreign-directed or supported orgies of death and destruction in Muslim lands and of Muslims. Islam's 1 billion plus Muslims can police themselves. The real question is can non-Muslims restrain themselves?

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"http://islamicunityfoundaion"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

 

I am sincerely interested in the question of how Islam can reform itself and stop murdering people.

As a Muslim, your responses are troubling. Your contention is that “Muslims†do not murder people and that whatever responses (which, if they are not murderous, what responses are you writing about?) do happen, it is not the fault of the Muslims, or the Muslim countries, it is the fault of foreign powers.

 

Islam has not “policed itself†for at least the last century.

“Western†nations in the world were indeed trying to police themselves during the Twentieth century, hence World War II and the Cold War, to mention two such “police†actions - both “Western†wars against the aggression and murder by a large, powerful Western nations.

Islamic countries during that time were largely engaged in their own civil wars and inter-Islamic aggressions against each other, which continue to this day.

There are countless examples of this kind of Islamic behavior which combines wars of conquest; civil war; and the slaughter of innocents over the last century.

However, an useful example would be one of the countries that encompasses the heart of Islam, Mecca, and has a long history, relatively free of “foreign†dominance, Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia today consists of 30,000 Saudis from the royal House of Saud, who rule over the 25 million people living in Saudi Arabia.

The existence of Saudi Arabia as a country; the ownership of the oil; the organization of its government is totally and strictly designed to benefit the House of Saud - the 30,000 Saudis.

Saudi Arabia is an absolute (somewhat benevolent towards its populace) monarchy.

The House of Saud made a political and tribal alliance with the Wahhabist cult of Islam approximately 200 years ago.

In that period of time the Saudi/Wahhabi alliance attacked the Ottoman Empire; attacked Egypt; slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Shia Muslims in northern Saudi Arabia/ southern Iraq; obliterated Shia holy sites (such as the tomb of Adam and Eve); sacked and destroyed Mecca twice and then finally, in this last century, conquered Mecca and Medina by defeating the Hashemites who were considered the legitimate heirs of Mohammed.

Today's Saudi Arabia is a welfare state where no Saudi citizen has to work.

This has led to an extremely large indolent class which resents the wealth of al-Saud, but has no skills or ambitions to achieve their own fortunes.

And Saudi Arabia continues to export, using its oil wealth, their virulent form of Wahabbism to every country in the world and they continue to export terrorists who claim to be true Muslims on the true Jihad which demands the murder and death of anyone whom their leaders tell them to murder – mostly innocent Muslims.

 

This scenario above is recaptured in different ways in nearly every Muslim country on earth.

 

You seem to disbelieve this or discount the fact that it is true or that it is a problem.

 

I wish to solve the problem.

 

Your suggestion that insult and provocation and interference in lands claimed by Muslims justify their response of murder is not useful.

There is no evidence to suggest that Muslims will ever “police themselves.â€

Why do you believe this?

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Are you writing that the people who proclaim Jihad against non-Muslims or other Muslims that they consider kufar, are themselves kufar, disbelievers, and are not really Muslim? That they are “unIslamic?”

 

:D You are very provocative and not as innocent as you would have us believe. I would NEVER call another Muslim "kufar" or "kafir" no matter how unIslamic they are or seem to be. They could be, yet there is also always a possibility that they may repent and be forgiven by God and their evil deeds changed to good deeds.

 

The Qur'an "Al Furqan" (25:70):

 

"...Except he who repents, believes, and does righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil deeds of such persons into good deeds, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Most Merciful..."

 

There are certain conditions for jihad which must be met before it can be proclaimed. Any Muslim who proclaims jihad without the majority of the Muslims behind him is in grave danger of not meeting those conditions. The majority of Muslims are not about to commit collective suicide because of a few misguided fanatics.

 

Are you writing that the Muslim religious leaders in Cairo; Riyadh; Tehran; London and Islamabad who praise the shahids, suicide bombers who deliberately target innocent people all over the world, including Indonesia; Pakistan; Afghanistan; Iraq and Spain; are all unIslamic?”

 

"Shahids" and suicide bombers are two different things. Suicide bombers who deliberately target innocent people cannot call themselves "shahids", much as they or any other "religious leader" would like to. True Islamic religious leaders would never find in Islam any justification for suicide, even in what they wrongly believe to be the cause of Islam or God.

 

There is entirely no justification in Islam for suicide, even in war.

 

These religious leaders are teaching at the most prestigious Muslim universities. These religious leaders are the leaders of major Masjids in these countries. These religious leaders claim to speak for their populations and I have not heard of the majority of their populations repudiating their claims.

 

This is what you allege. Do you have any proof of it? Bring your proof if you are truthful. If not, please do not exaggerate. Even if you do, which I doubt, the majority of their populations may not know any better and may be misled by them. It can also happen that personal prejudices and emotions get the better of religious convictions and teachings no matter how learned a person is.

 

Can you please explain to me why these “Muslims” are “unIslamic?” And, if this is so, why don’t the hundreds of millions of Muslims who listen to these leaders condemn them for being “unIslamic?”

 

:D So now we have progressed from tens of millions to hundreds of millions. Are you sure you are not exaggerating? Muslims become unIslamic when they do not follow the teachings of Islam.

 

Not all Muslims keep quiet. The Western media would rather sensationalize the issue, very much like you are doing. Do you expect the Western media which has other agendas, to highlight the fact that the vast majority of Muslims condemn such acts?

 

There is also much exaggeration in the Western media. One fire or bomb in the Middle East and it seems like the whole place is in flames and suicide bombers are running rampage on every square inch of ground.

 

Interaction; invasion; intervention; and occupation has complicated life all over the planet earth for thousands of years. The Fatimid attacks against the Abbasid Caliphate complicated issues. The Mongol invasions of Dar Islam complicated issues. The Ottoman invasions of Eastern Europe complicated issues. This is an ongoing process. If foreign intervention and occupation is the main cause of the complications in the places I have mentioned, then why do other places, such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt have the exact same problems, only on a lesser scale due to their more tightly controlled restrictions on freedom?

 

Because both the Saudi Arabian and Egyptian governments are perceived by some if not most of their own people to be heavily influenced and even controlled by or dependent upon foreign powers, particularly the US, and in all probability they are.

 

Are you claiming that the different murders and assassinations of different Palestinian factions by other Palestinians is the fault of the israelis? Why?

 

There is plenty of evidence for it, and it is a favourite tactic of the israelis, the Americans and British to cause maximum disruption to and among their perceived enemies, so that they will fight with each other. Sometimes "friends" are sacrificed as well, the dominant philosophy being that "all is fair in war".

 

I understand that you believe oppression is “a major factor,” as you have stated. But this seems to be a specious argument. There are more locations throughout the world where Muslims are the oppressors and where none of the powers you mention have any influence at all, such as Nigeria and Sudan, than there are locations that are somehow “oppressed” by the US, israel or Russia. If you want to claim that it is foreign oppression that causes these “unIslamic” acts, then how do you explain Sudan? Or Pakistan? Or the attacks outside of Dar Islam?

 

Not as specious as your exaggerations I'm afraid. I don't discount areas where Muslims themselves are the oppressors. Not all Muslim countries have good leaders, and there will always be in any country people who do not behave acording to the norms of their religion, morality or guiding philosophies. Sometimes such people control governments (democratically or otherwise) and thereby cause oppression to others.

 

Each case must be studied on its own. All I'm saying is that in many Muslim countries, oppression is a major factor. There may be other factors as well, such as the sheer perverted nature of their mentality. Sociopaths know no religion, much as they may like it to appear to be, and even if they attempt to justify or legitimize their actions through religion or other things. Perverse individuals do exist in all societies and countries. Islam has its fair share of such people and so does the West.

 

I appreciate that response, and I suspect you believe it. However, it does beg the question of how so many – tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of those who claim to be Muslim also claim that hegemony over the world is their goal.

 

Of course I believe it, and so do the majority of Muslims. There is nothing in Islam to justify it. The Prophet (pbbuh) was sent as a mercy to mankind, not a scourge. Islam is a blessing to mankind, not a curse.

 

This is good. I wish that your religious leaders would take the lead in doing so. I apologize, but your claim that this is so does not seem to be the claim of your religious leaders. I do not understand why you believe this, but they do not. Your responses throughout your explanations seem to be at odds with what Muslim religious leaders; political leaders; journalists; and ordinary Muslims proclaim that they believe.

 

I do not think I am in the minority. There is probably a very large silent majority amongst Muslims. Again I think you may be exaggerating when you say that this is "what Muslim religious leaders; political leaders; journalists; and ordinary Muslims proclaim that they believe".

 

Even if the majority were to believe it, that would not make it right or Islamic.

 

I do appreciate your responses, but you must realize that you are contradicting yourself every other paragraph.

 

Any contradiction is entirely in your own mind and perception. :D

 

On one hand, you claim that this kind of violence is “unIslamic.” And you claim that “Muslims” do not commit this kind of violence, but all of these other isms and nations do commit this kind of violence.

On the other hand, you claim that when Islam is “provoked” or “insulted” that it is to be expected that resistance to these provocations will not be “reasonable or proportionate.”

That is disturbing. Not to mention entirely illogical.

This claim, which underlies most of what you are writing here, that it is natural and normal for those who are insulted to respond with overwhelming hatred and viciousness towards those who have wronged them, is very troubling.

 

Yes, it is unIslamic. Yes, true Muslims do not commit this kind of violence. True Muslims do not hate nor are they vicious. Yet it is a general human failing and is not confined to Muslims. Why should you be disturbed only about Muslims misbehaving in this manner? What about non-Muslims, who may be behaving just as badly, if not worse?

 

I don't see anything illogical about anything I have said. It happens, even if there is no excuse at all for it. It is certainly not natural nor normal and I did not even say or imply that it was. :D It is the very thing that Islam is against. Islam teaches peace, not hatred or viciousness, extreme or otherwise. Islam teaches tolerance and patience.

 

Is that response also not “unIslamic?” I do not see where the deliberate murder of innocents, whether they be Muslims or Jews or Europeans or Americans, could ever be considered an “obvious” response to any provocation, no matter how unjustified.

 

Certainly. Any act of provocation, especially if unjustified, will obviously be met with resistance, as I said, not all of which will be reasonable or proportionate. This is NOT the same as saying that murder is an "obvious" response to such provocation.

 

Because there is no history of Muslim countries having ever been known for their intentions to use anything “purely for self-defense.” Most of the Muslim countries in the Middle East; North Africa; and Indonesia, have tried, either successfully or unsuccessfully, to invade neighboring countries (mostly other Islamic countries) and have certainly put down their own dissident populations with massive, overwhelming, brutal force.

 

I suppose that the Europeans, Russians, israelis and Americans have never used such brutal force in their entire history? Muslims learned brutality from the West, not Islam and not that justifies anything.

 

When they have had weapons, such as Saddam’s gas, they have used it. When they have not had these kinds of weapons, they have simply used overwhelming force in butchering whole populations such as Syria did in Hama in 1982 or even the Turkish massacre of the Armenians from 1915 to 1917.

 

Don't give us this one-sided rubbish. Greater atrocities have been committed by non-Muslim countries as well. So what suddenly makes Muslims a greater threat or concern? Muslims and Muslim countries just do not possess the same kind of destructive power as the West.

 

Currently, the only threat that these countries face where they might need some sort of massive self-defense (now that the Soviet Union now longer exists) is from other Muslim countries.

 

As far as I am concerned, the greatest threat to world peace and stability comes from the US, israel, Russia and Europe, in that order.

 

Could you give me a current example of foreign intervention that has a “capricious lust for blood and death” in Islamic lands?

 

The US and UK in Afghanistan and Iraq in particular.

 

And, again, why are violent reactions against innocent people justified? I was under the impression that you were claiming such reactions were “unIslamic”

 

Certainly not justified by Islam nor me. Did I at all say it was justified? Your first "impression" is correct, your second not.

 

You have not answered my question where you got the rubbish that Iran has proclaimed that "it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels" from.

 

I am sincerely interested in the question of how Islam can reform itself and stop murdering people.

 

I really don't know how sincere you are, or perhaps you have trouble understanding what I have been saying. There is nothing for Islam to reform itself for. I thought that would have been clear by now. Islam does not condone murder. How many times do you want me to repeat this? Is English your mother tongue?

 

It is the West which justifies wholesale murder (which they call "collateral damage") under the guise of war.

 

As a Muslim, your responses are troubling. Your contention is that “Muslims” do not murder people and that whatever responses (which, if they are not murderous, what responses are you writing about?) do happen, it is not the fault of the Muslims, or the Muslim countries, it is the fault of foreign powers.

 

It is obvious that you will read only what you want to. So much for your sincerity.

 

Islam has not “policed itself” for at least the last century.

“Western” nations in the world were indeed trying to police themselves during the Twentieth century, hence World War II and the Cold War...

Islamic countries during that time were largely engaged in their own civil wars and inter-Islamic aggressions against each other, which continue to this day.

 

Perhaps you should study history with a more open mind. "Inter-Islamic aggressions" is a contradiction in terms. Perhaps you mean "Inter-Muslim"?

 

Islam has no need to police itself. Muslim countries do. They could not have done much self-policing when for the most part of the last century they were either colonies or heavily-influenced/controlled zones of Western powers and many still are.

 

There are countless examples of this kind of Islamic behavior which combines wars of conquest; civil war; and the slaughter of innocents over the last century.

 

By all means, give us ALL the examples. Why only Saudi Arabia? At the same time give us all the non-Muslim wars of conquest, civil war and slaughter of innocents over the last century as well. We think you should wish to solve this problem too - it is a far bigger problem.

 

This scenario above is recaptured in different ways in nearly every Muslim country on earth.

 

Another gross exaggeration. Provide examples please. What about all the non-Muslim countries on earth?

 

You seem to disbelieve this or discount the fact that it is true or that it is a problem.

 

Fact? One man's fact is another man's fiction. You seem to see only what you want to see.

 

I wish to solve the problem.

 

You can start by doing more research and study first instead of jumping to half-baked conclusions.

 

Your suggestion that insult and provocation and interference in lands claimed by Muslims justify their response of murder is not useful.

 

Where did I even suggest or say anything that could lead you to this conclusion?

 

There is no evidence to suggest that Muslims will ever “police themselves.” Why do you believe this?

 

The West will only find out if it leaves Muslims alone. All the evidence points towards Western interference as the main cause for Muslim unrest. If neither you nor the West accepts this, don't talk about solving the "problem".

 

The problem lies with the West, which insists on misunderstanding Islam, refuses to really study it yet persists in interfering in Muslim lands, countries and politics.

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

Edited by yusufar

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If the majority of muslims think and speak the way yusufar do, then there will never be peace.

 

I can only hope this is not the case.

 

I mean even the west gets the blame for muslims killing muslims!!!

 

If the west had even a fraction of the influence on muslim countrys that yusufar claims, then there wouldnt be any terrorist attacks, as they would be stamped out.

 

I can understand muslims wanting to believe that Islam is peacefull and tolerant but by judging the actions of muslims how is the rest of the world supposed to believe this?

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If the majority of muslims think and speak the way yusufar do, then there will never be peace.

 

I can only hope this is not the case.

 

I mean even the west gets the blame for muslims killing muslims!!!

 

If the west had even a fraction of the influence on muslim countrys that yusufar claims, then there wouldnt be any terrorist attacks, as they would be stamped out.

 

I can understand muslims wanting to believe that Islam is peacefull and tolerant but by judging the actions of muslims how is the rest of the world supposed to believe this?

 

Greetings Anon,

 

And what exactly. pray tell, do you find so objectionable about the way I think or speak? :D

 

I'm all for peace. Islam is all for peace.

 

Unfortunately, I'm all too aware of the insidious and hypocritical ways of the West and the corruption, perversion and oppression that they bring to Muslim and other lands in the East. Not all, mind you, but especially those in power. Perhaps you may not realize it.

 

You should really take a hard look at all the things that Western governments do around the world and see things from those who are at the receiving end of it.

 

It is precisely because of the undue influence of the West that terrorist attacks occur. Now let me make it very clear that when I say this by no means do I wish to justify any such attacks.

 

Judging from the actions of the West as well, how can Muslims also believe that the West wants peace?

 

Other than for 9/11, the origin of which I would venture to say is still a matter of dispute, and other sporadic attacks, the West has still not been on the real receiving end of the scale of mayhem, death and destruction which it has wrought on the rest of the world, including the Muslim world.

 

Now when I say this I do not mean that what the West inflicts on other innocent people should also be inflicted on the West's innocent people as well. But it is high time that the West and its innocent citizens woke up to the havoc and devastation that their governments are wreaking, especially in the Middle East.

 

Even if you don't see it, do you think that Muslims take the same perverse pleasure that the West seems to do, in promoting terrorism? Perhaps a very small minority of misguided Muslims do and even then on a very small scale, but only the West has the armies and military might to do it on a large scale.

 

Do you get my drift?

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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Salaam,

 

"West has still not been on the real receiving end of the scale of mayhem, death and destruction "

 

yes, being the most violent continent in the world for 900 years followed by two industrial era wars means we no longer find invading each other as appealing. But of course the 100 years war, the wars of religion, the thrity years wars, the napoleonic wars, the first world war, the second world war... none of those count as 'mayhem, death and destruction"

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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"And what exactly. pray tell, do you find so objectionable about the way I think or speak?"

 

well this for a start -

 

"Unfortunately, I'm all too aware of the insidious and hypocritical ways of the West and the corruption, perversion and oppression that they bring to Muslim and other lands in the East. Not all, mind you, but especially those in power. Perhaps you may not realize it"

 

 

"I'm all for peace. Islam is all for peace."

 

Hmm yes but apparently only if ur a muslim tho.

Edited by Anon

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Salaam,

 

"West has still not been on the real receiving end of the scale of mayhem, death and destruction "

 

yes, being the most violent continent in the world for 900 years followed by two industrial era wars means we no longer find invading each other as appealing. But of course the 100 years war, the wars of religion, the thrity years wars, the napoleonic wars, the first world war, the second world war... none of those count as 'mayhem, death and destruction"

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

 

Peace,

 

Do I detect a note of sarcasm there? :D I thought I was speaking in the context of "mayhem, death and destruction" inflicted from outside sources, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

 

Not many Muslims were involved in all those wars, except Turkey in the 1st WW, and even then it wasn't involved in an invasion of Europe. So of course, most of this was self-inflicted or intra-Europe/West "mayhem, death and destruction".

 

If Europe can get over such large-scale devastation, I just wonder why so much fuss is being made today over a few terrorist attacks, when Europe/the West is itself causing disruption to and massive destruction in Muslim lands.

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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"And what exactly. pray tell, do you find so objectionable about the way I think or speak?"

 

well this for a start -

 

"Unfortunately, I'm all too aware of the insidious and hypocritical ways of the West and the corruption, perversion and oppression that they bring to Muslim and other lands in the East. Not all, mind you, but especially those in power. Perhaps you may not realize it"

"I'm all for peace. Islam is all for peace."

 

Hmm yes but apparently only if ur a muslim tho.

 

No point to just repeat what I say. :D What I'd really like to know is what exactly you find objectionable about what I say and the way I think and speak, i.e. what and why.

 

Otherwise I may have to conclude that you have no reasonable grounds to find the way I think or speak objectionable. :D

 

My apologies if sometimes I may sound a bit abrasive or intolerant. I'm really not and have no intention to be, since I'm just a country yokel, but I will plead guilty to being rather impatient sometimes, which I'm still trying to improve. :D

 

What use is peace to Muslims if non-Muslims cannot enjoy it too? We're not selfish you know. Not to mention that such a situation will also eventually adversely affect Muslims as well. :D

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

Edited by yusufar

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Your obvious distain for the west is clear.

 

Your blinkered and biased views are clear.

 

U claim that the west is insidious and hypocritical, yet after 9/11 muslims claim this is not Islamic, then come madrid muslims claim this is not Islamic, finally london muslims claim this is not Islamic.

 

It appears ur insidious and hypocritical claim should be directed at muslims instead.

 

 

"West has still not been on the real receiving end of the scale of mayhem, death and destruction "

 

Just wot statement are u making here?, is it a threat?

 

 

"I would NEVER call another Muslim "kufar" or "kafir" no matter how unIslamic they are or seem to be"

 

So ur justifying terrorism? or are muslims blowing up bus's or trains wrong, misguided or not real muslims, make up ur mind.

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:D

Hope that this thread does not become yet another criticism filled targeting of one's opinions (talking about both muslim and non muslim ppl here :D ) I'd prefer that you ppl respond to the topic title. :D

 

For my opinion, having terrorism and Islamic world in the same sentence is really sad indeed. We, Muslims, obviously don't agree about that. And non muslims probably do. (the case of Islam vs the rest of the wotrld has also been well "documented" in other threads, mind you :D )

 

The previous posts have mentioned jihad. Jihad has been considered a dangerous word by non muslims. i'm not a scholar to judge which leader has got it wrong or right. The only thing i can contribute to is that jihad is not about attacking innocent people, suicide or the like. it's about fighting oppression. it's about restoring peace. Even combating your unlawful desires/thoughts can be considered to be jihad of your heart. to the non-muslims: try checking it out-google about it or wiki it...

 

now, about the part on how to remove terrorism from the (islamic) world...

note that these are only my opinions :)

  • Dialogue - does it work? On a national scale, i doubt it. the terrorist is hell-bent on promoting terror. try talking to them, and you may get bombed (no sarcasm or funny pun intended here, mind)
  • Remove the root cause - how? IN fact, what IS the root cause of terrorism? Why does a terrorist crash a plane into a tower? To protect his people?
  • Popularity of the terrorist - i heard that some people cheered when the twin towers went down... Why would that be? Perhaps its because the West SEEMS to symbolize what is evil and what is not acceptable... Funny, how rumours can change opinions. I was once told to stop drinking a certain soft drink koz it contained pork in it...
  • The hand of friendship - what would have the reception been if the US had engaged into humanitarian aid in poor muslim countries rather than spending billions of dollars and thousands of casualties in the Iraq war? I'm dead sure that a positive image of americans in muslim world would have aided their quest for world peace much much better...

Edited by khalylmk

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Salaam,

 

It is nice to see some analysis taking place. Do you mind if I put some objections against some of your points?

 

1.

Dialogue - does it work? On a national scale, i doubt it. the terrorist is hell-bent on promoting terror. try talking to them, and you may get bombed (no sarcasm or funny pun intended here, mind)
difficult one really. In the case of the IRA and ETA then dialogue really does work, but both of those had aims which could be regarded as reasonable to a large extent. What does al-Qaeda want? it says it wants an end to American intereference in the ME. However, a three year old could work out that blowing up the twin towers would have the opposite effect. So what does it really want? Well, for lack of anything better the organization reminds me more of a sadist than anything else. They kill people at random solely to try and cause pain to someone else. It is only possible to negociate with someone sane, al-Qaeda is more of a psychopathic organisation than anything else. The nature of the organisation is also difficult to deal with. The IRA and ETA regarded themselves as armies. They had a relatively central leadership making negociations possible. If they promised to do something it could be assumed that the person at the meeting spoke for the organisation. The situation with al-Qaeda is more similar to dealing with multiple terrorist organisations. Like in israel-Palestine, even if Hamas and Fatah prmise a ceasefire and hold to it, it still doesn't mean other organisations aren't going to send in suicide bombers. I think with al-Qaeda negocaition is impossble as they have no clear (reasonable) aims and no 'cnetral nervous system'.

 

2.

Remove the root cause - how? IN fact, what IS the root cause of terrorism? Why does a terrorist crash a plane into a tower? To protect his people?

if anyone knew the answer they'd be very rich indeed :D

I don't think the answer can be 'oppression' though. There have been thousands of societies and cultures oppressed through the ages without suicide hijackers (or equivilent)being the result. With Ghandi and Martin Luther King oppression was overcome by purely peaceful means. There has to therefore be some level of culture involved whereby the victims of suicide attacks or other terorist attacks are dehumanised to such a degree that killing themis no different to stepping on an ant.

 

3.

Popularity of the terrorist - i heard that some people cheered when the twin towers went down... Why would that be? Perhaps its because the West SEEMS to symbolize what is evil and what is not acceptable... Funny, how rumours can change opinions. I was once told to stop drinking a certain soft drink koz it contained pork in it...

 

The distinction you made between perception and reality is well made (the 'seems' bit). I think the habit of balming the west for everyting is the product of a victim status which has taken hold of the middle east and large numbers of Muslims. There are a great number of internal problems in the middle east in terms of human rights, economies etc and there has been great abuse of Islam to justify many unacceptable acts. However, because there are clerics and preachers out there who are saying 'violence, it really is obligatory in Islam' there is an unwilllingness to deal with problems. A good example is taliban Afghanistant where it was claimed Islamic law was being applied and in reality it was the just most horrific abuse of women and anyone not of the right ethncity etc. It is easier to blame problems on an outside force than actually have to deal with them directly, we can see that in our own daily lives and history shows us the way the Nazis built up a sense of German victimhood which they blamed the Jews for. In the same way, a sense of victimhood has built up int eh middle-east and it is always 'the west' or the USA who are to blame for these problems, not internal shortcomings.

 

4.

The hand of friendship - what would have the reception been if the US had engaged into humanitarian aid in poor muslim countries rather than spending billions of dollars and thousands of casualties in the Iraq war? I'm dead sure that a positive image of americans in muslim world would have aided their quest for world peace much much better...

 

See the problem is that the US is still one of the worlds biggest donors for humanitarian aid projects. Of all the organisations which give money to the Palestinien Authority, the US is the country which donates the most. When the Tsunami hit south-east Asia, the US donated vast sums. In 2006 it gave over $16 billion in aid making it the largest donor. Now, you may say 'oh, but it has a bigger economy', yes, that's true, but it's still donating billions more per year in aid than it spent on the war and is the 26th in terms of aid as a percentage of GDP. (FYI, Saudi is at the top followed by Norway). When there is natural disaster the US will send food and equipment. To say it has failed in providing any aid and that this is why people dislike the US sounds sensible in theory but the figures show a different story.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Your obvious distain for the west is clear.

 

Only when justified.

 

Your blinkered and biased views are clear.

 

So are yours.

 

U claim that the west is insidious and hypocritical, yet after 9/11 muslims claim this is not Islamic, then come madrid muslims claim this is not Islamic, finally london muslims claim this is not Islamic.

 

It is not.

 

It appears ur insidious and hypocritical claim should be directed at muslims instead.

 

Why is it Westerners refuse to see that their own interference in other people's countries will come back to haunt them?

 

"West has still not been on the real receiving end of the scale of mayhem, death and destruction "

 

Just wot statement are u making here?, is it a threat?

 

This is a typical knee-jerk reaction. What threat? It is just a statement. Muslims and Muslim countries are in no position to threaten the West. It is the West which has the overwhelming fire-power to cause devastation in other people's countries (and which they have actually done and continue to do).

 

I may be biased, but I get the feeling that the West will always try to put itself first, and they don't care about what they have to do in other people's countries or the damage that they cause.

 

I am aware that not all in the West feel this way, but until their governments come about to a more equitable way of dealing with the rest of the world, the sense of injustice about how the non-Western world is being treated by the West will continue to everyone's detriment - especially the more disadvantaged, the poor and the oppressed.

 

"I would NEVER call another Muslim "kufar" or "kafir" no matter how unIslamic they are or seem to be"

 

So ur justifying terrorism? or are muslims blowing up bus's or trains wrong, misguided or not real muslims, make up ur mind.

 

As I have said, you will see what you like. If most of the West are as blinkered as you, it is no wonder that problems like this exist.

 

There is no effort on your part to even try and understand Islam and Muslim views.

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamicunityfoundation(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

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"There is no effort on your part to even try and understand Islam and Muslim views."

 

And wot are u doing to try and understand the non-muslims views?, ill bet u dont even care about non-muslim views so why should I care about yours?

 

"Why is it Westerners refuse to see that their own interference in other people's countries will come back to haunt them?"

 

Well if other countrys werent active in supporting terrorism or werent run by corrupt dictators westerners would have no need to interfere.

 

"Your blinkered and biased views are clear."

 

"So are yours."

 

Im way more open minded than u, i dont blame muslims for everything while u blame the west for all ur ills.

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Salaam,

 

"I get the feeling that the West will always try to put itself first"

 

Ok, role of the state 101.

 

What is the first duty of a state? to protect its citizens. The first foundation for a system of taxation is to pay for an army because it is only possible to defend a country by organisaed group.

 

Should the person who pays for something be the first to gain the utility from that payment? yes, of course, we accept this all over the world in every culture.

 

So, if a person has 'paid' for 'a country' through taxation who is it that country should act for in the first degree, the poeple who have contributed to it expecting protection or outsiders who have not contributed in teh same way? Obviously, the country has a duty towards its citizens first.

 

What happens when countries place other things higher than the protection and wellbeing of their citizens? Either the citizens overthrow the state; or, the state continues and disregards in total the will of the citizenry and so disregards their humanity.

 

Do I think its a criticism that in the West we say the state should put the needs and wants of its own citizens first? No, I think its great and if the rest of the world followed example there would be more democracy and more human rights, less poverty, less war and more stabilty. Putting your citizens first is to see them as other human beings rather than tools, animals or machine gun fodder.

 

 

You say that an equitable relationship must be the start and then prosperity and friendship will follow. I'm afraid you're wrong in your analysis. The relationship between 'the West' and places such as China, Taiwan, Japan, S. Korea, Vietnam etc was never equitable until they became prosperous. They did this by ensuring stabilty, working hard and looking within themselves to fix problems rather than blaming someone else. Problems can only be fixed once people are willing to accept they are to blame and not someone else. They can only be fixed once people stop treating themselves like victims. If Japan, after the utter devestation caused by the war had wailed, worn sack cloth and put ashes in their hair and blamed the US for everything would it be so successful today? Of course not! Did placing the blame 100% on Germany for the first world war heal the continant?No, it only began to get better when people accepted responsibility for their own decisions and actions.

 

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Thank you again for responding.

I hope you will forgive me for not answering you again point by point. The parts that I will leave out are the parts where I feel that I understand your answer and that further questions or commentary are not specifically necessary. If you feel that I have not addressed something deliberately, please let me know… (I suspect that you will.)

 

This is what you allege. Do you have any proof of it? Bring your proof if you are truthful. If not, please do not exaggerate. Even if you do, which I doubt, the majority of their populations may not know any better and may be misled by them. It can also happen that personal prejudices and emotions get the better of religious convictions and teachings no matter how learned a person is.

 

Are you honestly telling me that you have not heard or read what leaders in the Islamic world say, almost on a daily basis?

It appears to me that not only are you a devout Muslim, but that you are concerned enough about your religion that you communicate with the world on a website devoted to this purpose.

And, you are telling me that you are unaware of what various religious leaders proclaim?

I will take you at your word and believe that you are not being merely sarcastic or disingenuous.

I include the following only because you specifically asked me for proof - I could also quote a number of other leaders, religious or not, and spokespeople for Islam and various Muslim countries that speak out against violence or that simply question the validity of proposing violence in the name of Jihad or Islam. Obviously, those voices do not promote violence and mayhem.

I am concerned with the voices that do promote violence and mayhem and the Muslims who listen to these voices:

 

---Dr. Salah Sultan is president of the American Center for Islamic Research (ACIR), a non-profit organization registered in Ohio and located in Columbus. On his website, he asserts that the main purpose of the ACIR is to "serve Allah (God) in the best way possible through the principles laid out in the Quran and Sunnah," to address misconceptions and extremism, to build bridges with non-Muslims, and to provide fatwas.

On May 17, 2006, Dr. Sultan appeared on the Saudi Prince Walid bin Talal-owned Al-Risala TV channel.(16) In his appearance on Al-Risala TV, Dr. Sultan praised Yemenite sheikh Dr. Al-Zindani, who has been categorized by the U.S. government as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist" because of his loyalty to Osama bin Laden and his support of Al-Qaeda.

During this interview he said: “I share the view of many Americans, French, and Europeans, who say that 9/11 could not have been carried out entirely from outside [the U.S.] - by Muslims or others. The confessions by some people could have been edited. But even if they were not edited, I believe that these people were used in a marginal role. The entire thing was of a large scale and was planned within the U.S., in order to enable the U.S. to control and terrorize the entire world, and to get American society to agree to the war declared on terrorism - the definition of which has not yet been determined.â€

 

---In a May 12th Friday sermon at Tehran University, Guardian Council Secretary Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati described Ahmadinejad's rambling, semi-coherent letter of May 7th, sent to President Bush, as "divinely inspired," claiming that "the letter is a continuation of the path of Imam Khomeini." The difference between them, he said, "is that Khomeini's letter was issued from a position of leadership (Khomeini being the Supreme Leader of Iran), whereas Ahmadinejad's letter was issued from the position of president... The letter is wondrous and rare... The letter is [divinely] inspired. God desires to increase the power of our country, and thus casts His inspiration...

Ahmadinejad is a courageous and religious man, whose words are worthy of being heeded. He represents the honor of Islam and of the state... Whether or not the Americans will respond, they will be harmed. If they respond, what can they possibly say? If they do not respond, this will betray their weakness and shame... Where else could such a letter be written, within Iran or outside it, it is a letter that amazes everyone in its form? Ahmadinejad is to be esteemed... This letter should be read to all children, it should be read out loud in schools and universities, it should be repeated in the media, and it should be included in the future in school textbooks."

 

---Ayatollah Ahmad Husseini Al-Baghdadi of Iraq said in an interview on Al Jazeera TV: "Jihad in Islam, from the perspective of Islamic jurisprudence, is of two types: jihad initiated by the Muslims, which means raiding the world in order to spread the word that 'there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah' throughout the world. But this raid will not materialize in our era - the era of barbaric American capitalistic globalism - unless the Infallible, peace be upon him, is present.

But there are jurisprudents, both Sunnis and Twelver Shi'ites, who have said that the presence of the Infallible is not a prerequisite. If the objective and subjective circumstances materialize, and there are soldiers, weapons, and money - even if this means using biological, chemical, and bacterial weapons - we will conquer the world, so that 'There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah' will be triumphant over the domes of Moscow, Washington, and Paris.

….we stand firm, and we unite, and if we begin to believe in the diverse Arab Islamic Islam, we will annihilate America."

 

---Egyptian Cleric and Former Islamic Lecturer in the U.S. Hazem Sallah Abu Isma'il said on on April 14, 2006 said on his weekly show on Al-Resala TV, The Raids, in which he discusses the battles of the Prophet Muhammad: "Jews produce more than 82% of the video clips in the world," and he added that "82% of all attempts to corrupt humanity originate from the Jews."

 

--- On April 19, 2006, Saudi Islamist cleric Sheikh Dr. Nasser Al-'Omar appeared on Al-Jazeera delivering a lecture on jihad. In it, he said, "The Islamic nation now faces a great phase of jihad," and added "There are places where jihad is proper - Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, Chechnya, Kashmir, and the Philippines." He also told his audience that the U.S. was "disappearing" - echoing his statement on Al-Majd TV on June 13, 2004 that "America is collapsing," and that Muslims "must be patient."

 

--- On February 16, 2006, Iranian Internet daily Rooz reported:

"The spiritual leaders of the ultra-conservatives have accepted the use of nuclear weapons as lawful in the eyes of shari'a. Mohsen Gharavian, a disciple of the Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi (who is Iranian President Ahmadinejad's spiritual mentor), has spoken for the first time of using nuclear weapons as a counter-measure. He stated that 'in terms of shari'a, it all depends on the goal.'

 

"The religious leadership of the Islamic Republic, which has until now regarded the use of nuclear weapons as opposed to shari'a, and has repeated this point again and again, has so far kept silent about this…

Mohsen Gharavian… a lecturer at the religious schools of Qom, and a disciple of Mesbah Yazdi…. said for the first time that the use of nuclear weapons may not constitute a problem according to shari'a. He further said that 'when the entire world is armed with nuclear weapons, it is permissible to use these weapons as a counter. According to shari'a, too, only the goal is important...'

He said that he sees no problem with the military use of nuclear weapons: 'One must say that when the entire world is armed with nuclear weapons, it is only natural that, as a counter-measure, it is necessary to be able to use these weapons. However, what is important is what goal they may be used for."

 

-------At the Grand Masjid in Mecca on February 1, 2004, Sheikh Al-Sudayyis, the Saudi government appointed imam of the Grand Masjid in Mecca, called on Muslims everywhere to unite to defeat the world's occupiers and oppressors: "History has never known a cause in which our religious principles, historical rights, and past glories are so clearly challenged.... The conflict between us and the Jews is one of creed, identity, and existence." He told those listening to "read history," in order "to know that yesterday's Jews were bad predecessors and today's Jews are worse successors. They are killers of prophets and the scum of the earth. Allah hurled his curses and indignation on them and made them monkeys and pigs and worshippers of tyrants. These are the Jews, a continuous lineage of meanness, cunning, obstinacy, tyranny, evil, and corruption...."

Al-Sudayyis said: “O Muslims, the Islamic nation today is at the peak of conflict with the enemies of yesterday, today, and tomorrow, with the grandsons of Bani-Quraydah, Al-Nadhir, and Qaynuqa [Jewish tribes in the early days of Islam]. May Allah's curses follow them until the Day of Judgment.

The nation must know that these are people with a disgraceful history and.... They want to establish the Greater israel with Jerusalem as its capital. They also aspire to demolish the Al-Aqsa Masjid and build their alleged temple in its place. They want to liquidate the State of Islam and the Koran, and build the State of the Torah and Talmud on its debris. They will get what they deserve from Allah.... Our Al-Aqsa is crying out saying all Masjids have been liberated, while I — a great holy Masjid — am still being desecrated. Is the aspiration of over 1 billion Muslims to preserve their holy places [to be] considered savagery and terrorism? What a great lie, O Allah, O steadfast brothers in struggler and steadfast Palestine, the land of honor, loftiness, sacrifice, jihad, and bravery. The captivity of our Al-Aqsa in the hands of the tyrants makes us sleepless. May Allah please us with its liberation. Victory is coming soon, Allah willing.

....Here are the flags of victory looming on the horizon. We can smell it. It is crowned by a brave jihad, an intifada, which is still the winning card and the lit candle in the hands of the devout sons of this nation.... O nation of jihad and sacrifice, it is the duty of Muslims to support their brothers in creed in Palestine and elsewhere and to back them with material and moral support. Jihad with money sometimes supersedes jihad with soul, as mentioned in many Koranic verses and the prophet's traditions.â€

 

-------On November 2nd, 2003, The Grand Shaykh of Al-Azhar University, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi announced that suicide-bombers who are defending their land are seen as martyrs in Islamic shari'ah law. “Anybody blowing himself up in the face of an the occupiers of his land is a martyr,†said Shaykh Tantawi in response to a question about the Islamic shari'ah stance over the Palestinians who blow up their bodies against the israelis.

 

 

 

 

]:D So now we have progressed from tens of millions to hundreds of millions. Are you sure you are not exaggerating? Muslims become unIslamic when they do not follow the teachings of Islam.

 

Not all Muslims keep quiet. The Western media would rather sensationalize the issue, very much like you are doing. Do you expect the Western media which has other agendas, to highlight the fact that the vast majority of Muslims condemn such acts?

 

There is also much exaggeration in the Western media. One fire or bomb in the Middle East and it seems like the whole place is in flames and suicide bombers are running rampage on every square inch of ground. [/color]

 

Could you please give me examples of “Western media†that do not “highlight the fact that the vast majority of Muslims condemn such acts?â€

Could you please give me examples of “Western media†that exaggerate so that “One fire or bomb in the Middle East and it seems like the whole place is in flames and suicide bombers are running rampage on every square inch of ground.â€

This has not been my experience.

My experience has been the opposite of what you are stating.

My experience has been that the vast majority of “Western media†excuses all acts of violence as somehow understandable or justified (for the same reasons you seem to believe that it is “natural†to expect this kind of “resistance).

My experience is that the “Western media†gives daily examples of Muslims who explain, as you are doing, that this kind of violence is “unIslamic.â€

 

Because both the Saudi Arabian and Egyptian governments are perceived by some if not most of their own people to be heavily influenced and even controlled by or dependent upon foreign powers, particularly the US, and in all probability they are.[/quote]

 

If the entire Muslim world is heavily influenced or controlled by foreign powers, then why are they killing themselves and others?

Are you writing that these “controlled†countries, such as Saudi Arabia, are helpless to stop the hatred that is taught in Saudi funded madrasses all over the world?

I do not understand.

 

There is plenty of evidence for it, and it is a favourite tactic of the israelis, the Americans and British to cause maximum disruption to and among their perceived enemies, so that they will fight with each other. Sometimes "friends" are sacrificed as well, the dominant philosophy being that "all is fair in war".[/quote]

So, the current assassinations of Fatach by Hamas and the civil war is the fault of the israelis?

Quite frankly, I do not believe that you are serious and that you actually believe this.

I believe you are trying to avoid pinning blame upon other Arabs or Muslims.

I believe, as I suspect you do also, that people are responsible for their own actions.

Otherwise, if it is all “inshallah,†then it would appear that G-d has willed something other than perfect peace and harmony upon His people.

 

 

Not as specious as your exaggerations I'm afraid. I don't discount areas where Muslims themselves are the oppressors. Not all Muslim countries have good leaders, and there will always be in any country people who do not behave acording to the norms of their religion, morality or guiding philosophies. Sometimes such people control governments (democratically or otherwise) and thereby cause oppression to others.

 

Each case must be studied on its own. All I'm saying is that in many Muslim countries, oppression is a major factor. There may be other factors as well, such as the sheer perverted nature of their mentality. Sociopaths know no religion, much as they may like it to appear to be, and even if they attempt to justify or legitimize their actions through religion or other things. Perverse individuals do exist in all societies and countries. Islam has its fair share of such people and so does the West.[/quote]

 

Thank you.

You are absolutely correct.

In this case then, might I rephrase the question – how can you, or anyone, keep Muslims from following these perverse individuals and thereby giving the impression that what these perverse individuals are saying is what Islam preaches?

It would seem to me that this kind of response would need to come from Muslims and not from those outside of Islam.

All groups need to condemn those who pervert the principles or teachings of their group. Particularly, religious groups, which claim to have a higher purpose and teaching.

To take but one example, it seems perverse to either praise or excuse Usama bin Laden and even more perverse to claim that he had nothing to do with 9-11! Yet, seemingly rational, devout Muslims are doing this all the time.

This is the problem that I am addressing. This is to what I seek a solution.

 

I do not think I am in the minority. There is probably a very large silent majority amongst Muslims. Again I think you may be exaggerating when you say that this is "what Muslim religious leaders; political leaders; journalists; and ordinary Muslims proclaim that they believe".

 

Even if the majority were to believe it, that would not make it right or Islamic.[/quote]

Good. But that is not the perception. The perception is that the majority of Muslims believe in this kind of religious violence.

I only mentioned a few “religious†leaders above. There are far more political leaders, spokespeople and journalists who proclaim that the kind of violence that we are discussing is right and justified.

 

Yes, it is unIslamic. Yes, true Muslims do not commit this kind of violence. True Muslims do not hate nor are they vicious. Yet it is a general human failing and is not confined to Muslims. Why should you be disturbed only about Muslims misbehaving in this manner? What about non-Muslims, who may be behaving just as badly, if not worse?[/quote]

Because I am not threatened by non-Muslims. Non-Muslims are not currently attacking the United States; israel; Great Britain; France; Germany; Spain; Russia; China; India; the Philippines; Indonesia; etcetera.

 

I suppose that the Europeans, Russians, israelis and Americans have never used such brutal force in their entire history? Muslims learned brutality from the West, not Islam and not that justifies anything.[/quote]

Yes, Europeans, Russians, israelis and Americans have all used brutal force in their history. No, Muslims did not learn “brutality†from the West. I would humbly suggest you read a simple narrative history of the spread of Islam; the first Caliphates; and the subsequent civil wars that have occurred within Islam throughout history.

 

Don't give us this one-sided rubbish. Greater atrocities have been committed by non-Muslim countries as well. So what suddenly makes Muslims a greater threat or concern? Muslims and Muslim countries just do not possess the same kind of destructive power as the West.[/quote]

Again, my concern is based on the very real attacks, which perverse people have claimed are in the name of Islam. Non-Muslim countries have indeed committed “great atrocities.†And, these same countries have generally had to deal with the results of their atrocities. Some countries, such as China, have not really dealt with the atrocities that they have committed. However, these countries, such as China, are not currently murdering people in the name of their cause.

I want the very real perverse people who are committing atrocities yesterday and today, in the name of Islam, to stop. The purpose of my inquiry is to ask real Muslims, who are theoretically not perverse people, how to get these perverse people stop committing atrocities in the name of Islam.

 

As far as I am concerned, the greatest threat to world peace and stability comes from the US, israel, Russia and Europe, in that order.[/quote]

Could you provide me with examples of why you think this way? I find this entirely illogical and without reason at all. Please help me understand.

 

The US and UK in Afghanistan and Iraq in particular.

Based on your statement, you are incorrect. This foreign intervention is neither “capricious,†nor have the US and the UK been particularly eager to shed blood or kill people.

You may not like this intervention, but it is not “a capricious lust for blood and death.â€

 

You have not answered my question where you got the rubbish that Iran has proclaimed that "it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels" from.

Please see Guardian Council Secretary Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati’s statement above.

Iranian leaders hit out at US and israel

by

Friday 14 April 2006 7:41 PM GMT

Iranian leaders have accused the US of trying to place the Middle East under israeli control and predicted the "elimination" of the Jewish state.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the country's supreme leader, also used a pro-Palestinian conference in Tehran to rally support from Islamic nations for the cash-strapped, Hamas-led Palestinian government.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, dismissed remarks by Condoleezza Rice, the American secretary of state, who said the United Nations must consider strong action to press Iran to comply with demands over its nuclear plans.

"What she said is not important. She is free to speak out," Ahmadinejad said on the sidelines of a conference in Tehran, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported on Friday.

Ahmadinejad drew condemnation from the US and other world powers by announcing on Tuesday that Iran had enriched uranium to a level used in power stations, defying UN demands for it to halt enrichment.

israeli threat

 

The president also told a gathering of Iranian officials, visiting Palestinian leaders and foreign supporters that "the Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent threat".

"Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated," added Ahmadinejad, who drew international condemnation last year when he said israel should be "wiped off the map".

 

But unfazed by his critics in Europe and Washington - who are also piling the pressure on Iran over its disputed nuclear drive - he went on to repeat his controversial stance on the Holocaust.

"If there is serious doubt over the Holocaust, there is no doubt over the catastrophe and holocaust being faced by the Palestinians," said the president, who had previously dismissed as a "myth" the killing of an estimated six million Jews by the Nazis and their allies during the second world war.

"I tell the governments who support Zionism to ... let the migrants (Jews) return to their countries of origin. If you think you owe them something, give them some of your land," he said.

The Iranian government does not recognise israel.

US plots

 

In his speech on Friday, Ayatollah Khamenei accused the United States of conspiring to place the entire Middle East under israeli control.

 

"The plots by the American government against Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon aimed at governing the Middle East with the control of the Zionist regime will not succeed," he said.

"If, by accident, the American government saw reason, it would respect the wish of the Iraqi people to form its government, respect the Palestinian government, free the prisoners of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, cease the conspiracy and not create tension in the Persian Gulf region," he said.

He also called on Muslim countries to help the Hamas-led Palestinian government following a decision by the US and EU to suspend aid.

"The Islamic world cannot remain indifferent and silent to tyranny," he asserted.

"Your martyrs are our martyrs. Your pain is our pain," he said of the Palestinians, adding that "Islamic nations have the duty to help you in every possible way".

EU foreign ministers on Monday formally backed plans for a temporary aid suspension to the Palestinian government, having called on Hamas to renounce violence, recognise israel and abide by previous Palestinian Authority commitments.

Speaking to reporters in Tehran, Khalid Meshaal, the Syria-based Hamas leader, said: "It is immoral and inhumane to collectively punish a nation which practises democracy.

"But the Palestinian nation will not give in."

He added that he was talking with Iran as well as Arab countries in a bid to fill Palestinian Authority coffers.

"We are waiting for the Iranian government's support and answer to our request, but we haven't received anything yet."

(www.)"http://english.aljazeera/NR/exeres/855E4262-5725-48F2-8006-E64EDA536CDD.htm"]english.aljazeera/NR/exeres/855...64EDA536CDD.htm[/url]

 

Islam has no need to police itself. Muslim countries do. They could not have done much self-policing when for the most part of the last century they were either colonies or heavily-influenced/controlled zones of Western powers and many still are.[/quote]

Are you saying that Muslim countries are unable to police themselves (remove the perverse people who murder claiming it is in the name of Islam?) due to foreign control?

 

By all means, give us ALL the examples. Why only Saudi Arabia? At the same time give us all the non-Muslim wars of conquest, civil war and slaughter of innocents over the last century as well. We think you should wish to solve this problem too - it is a far bigger problem.[/quote]

I am beginning to suspect that you are not seriously interested in actual facts – as the history of Saudi Arabia is the only data here that you simply cut and ignored.

I would be happy to provide you with the history of any other Muslim country, if you are interested in discussing it.

It is 100% accurate that the two ideologies that were most responsible for the mass slaughter of innocents in the Twentieth Century and, indeed, perhaps in all of human history, were Soviet Stalinism and fascist Nazism.

Both of these ideologies were ultimately defeated by the West, in particular by the United States of America.

However, the perverse people that are currently murdering others in the name of Islam have adopted these ideologies in their perverse quest for supremacy.

Non-Muslim wars of conquest are not currently threatening the peace and stability of the world.

Wars of conquest, civil war and slaughter of innocents by perverse people in Muslim countries are currently threatening the peace and stability of the world.

Therefore, I beg to differ that non-Muslim actions are currently a “far bigger problem.â€

 

Another gross exaggeration. Provide examples please. What about all the non-Muslim countries on earth?

Again, I am not ignoring your request. It is simply that, based on the above, I do not believe you are seriously interested in discussing the various dangers and histories of the various Muslim countries.

If you are indeed serious, I apologize. For the sake of brevity, which Muslim country would you specifically like to discuss?

 

The West will only find out if it leaves Muslims alone. All the evidence points towards Western interference as the main cause for Muslim unrest. If neither you nor the West accepts this, don't talk about solving the "problem".

 

The problem lies with the West, which insists on misunderstanding Islam, refuses to really study it yet persists in interfering in Muslim lands, countries and politics.

 

Regards,

 

yusufar

(www.)"http://islamicunityfoundaon"]The Islamic Unity Foundation[/url]

 

Could you be a bit more specific? Could you please explain how “Western interference†was responsible for Al Qaeda’s murderous attacks? Or Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait? Or the Iraqi-Iranian war? Or the murderous wars going on in Sudan or Algeria? Or the various murderous bombings in Spain; Indonesia; and London? Or the constant murders and bombings that have occurred in Pakistan over the last 20 years or more? Or the murders by Muslims in India? Or the attacks by Muslims in Thailand? Or the Muslim Brotherhood’s constant murders in Egypt? Or the assassinations and bombings in Turkey? Or the Syrian occupation of Lebanon? Or any of the other terrorist actions committed for the last 30 or 40 years by perverse people claiming to be Muslims?

 

I will accept your premise that you and all other Muslims consider that all of the murders and attacks that I have stated are carried out by perverse people that are not really Muslim.

That still leaves the problem of how to convince you, and other true Muslims, that these people are evil, self-defeating, perverts who worship death and that they need to be stopped.

That seems to be the crux of the matter.

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U claim that the west is insidious and hypocritical, yet after 9/11 muslims claim this is not Islamic, then come madrid muslims claim this is not Islamic, finally london muslims claim this is not Islamic.

 

It appears ur insidious and hypocritical claim should be directed at muslims instead.

"West has still not been on the real receiving end of the scale of mayhem, death and destruction "

 

Just wot statement are u making here?, is it a threat?

"I would NEVER call another Muslim "kufar" or "kafir" no matter how unIslamic they are or seem to be"

 

So ur justifying terrorism? or are muslims blowing up bus's or trains wrong, misguided or not real muslims, make up ur mind.

 

Terrorism is wrong full stop.

 

now about 9/11 and the other attacks, BIG DEAL! that was ages ago, its not as if the west hasnt done the same many times over but under a different banner or under the guise of fighting terrorism, if i list all the attrocities the west are responsible for my computer would crash...! how may people have western terrorist armies killed? is it countable?

 

Some dude blows themselves up take a few innocent people with them and the west expects us muslims to be appologetic to them, i would appologise but i havent done anything wrong...!

 

But the guy is right, the west hasnt been on the proper recieving end, inshallah i hope it dont (and i wish west would stop terrorising other countries, that is very important for world peace)

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Big deal is it, rather dismisive of u considering u blamed the west for all sorts in the same post.

 

"But the guy is right, the west hasnt been on the proper recieving end, inshallah i hope it dont "

 

I hope u realise that if the west is ever on the proper recieving end (despite wot u hope, some of ur brothers and sisters seem hell bent on achieving this) it will be the end of Islam.

 

Simply saying such and such isnt Islamic dosent mean squat anymore, Just in the last few days 6 muslims were caught planning to blow up a night club in london.

 

 

On the tape Jawad Akbar: "What about easy stuff where you don't need no experience and nothing and you could get a job, yeah, like for example the biggest nightclub in central London where no-one can even turn round and say "oh they were innocent" those slags dancing around?

 

See how these muslims consider people going to a night club as not being innocent, calling them slags.

 

Yet its the west freeing ppl from oppresion in iraq and afganistan that are the terrorists.

 

And plz dont bring up crusades or global expansions over the last few hundred years coz BIG DEAL that was ages ago.

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There are about 2 BILLION Muslims in this world.

 

There are good fruit and bad fruit in every bunch. And if 1% are causing terroristic acts that go against Islam, and that's all people see and hear on the media, I can't blame you for having such bad ideas about Islam and Muslims in general.

 

9/11 was a big deal. My mom was in there and I almost lost my mind when I saw those horrible footage on the news. A lot of people tend to forget that those were people, our brothers and sisters of humanity, regardless of religion.

 

Even one person being mudered should be a big deal whether it was today or thousands of years ago. Unfortunately people chose to hate instead of understanding each other and point fingers instead of looking at themselves.

 

It should matter when Muslims tell you that these terroristic acts are not from Islam because we are reaching out to you to explain our religion and bridge the gap of misunderstanding.

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1% of 2 billion (a generous estimate i might add) is still a lot of ppl.

 

"It should matter when Muslims tell you that these terroristic acts are not from Islam because we are reaching out to you to explain our religion and bridge the gap of misunderstanding."

 

Why should it matter to me?

 

While ur reaching out and explaining ur religon ur fellow religonists are blowing themselves and others up, try explaining it to them.

 

Muslims, just like the rest if us are ultimately judged by there actions, u keep saying its not Islamic and muslims keep blowing themselves up, guess which message hits home the most.

 

Bridging the gap?

 

How do u do that when all we hear from muslims is how everything is the wests fault.

 

Im not meaning to have a go at u personally or anything :D

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agreed sis belle...people simply are brainwashed by the biased media,read too much anti-islamic literature...have'nt researched Islam and if they have then they have'nt read the right stuff...then they think they can judge Islam.then they think they can make dopey comments.iv read through this thread,and the anti Islam posts,contain a lot of writing;but its all cotton wool,if you get my drift.and moshe,your very adamant about all this "muslim killing"jargon,and yet your extremely light on the palestine/israel topic.you posted something about some israeli bigshot puttin down zionists.big deal.if thats so then how come its still carrying on,id like to know?so a few guys blow themselves up....have you ever thought why?its not coz Islam say so,its becouse they have no hope,and they should have faith in the almighty but not everone is the same.killing parents in front of there children,killing babies,raping wives,mothers and GIRLS...leaving hundreds homeless...get to know about these things,before you start on at Islam.dont just diss a religion in every way possible coz you dont like it or understand it.you wont get anywhere like that.Islam means PEACE,it is PEACE whatever you say,and keep on saying what y'all want to coz its not going to make a difference to us muslims is it?????? PEACE

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