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Moishe3rd

How Do You Change The Terrorism Of The Islamic World?

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Yes 1% of 2 billion is still a lot of people, but my point it, there's still that 99% that are being unheard...that's that's a lot bigger than the 1%

 

Well..i guess I should say it should matter to you if you're concerened with what's going on in the world today and are trying to understand the major topics that surround you.

 

If Muslims had it our way, for every suicide bomber that comes up on the news, we would also report 99 Muslim condeming that act or performing the duties of our religion to show what our religion is. But unfortunately that's not the way it goes.

 

For some people...there's no talking to them as far as stopping them from commiting these horrible and terroristic acts.

 

I'm sure you have people you consider close to you and you love. What if one day people forced their way into your home, raped your mother, killed your sister, tortured your father, and left you alive to remember all these things? I don't know about you, but I think I would be borderline insane. Just so filled with anger and revenge. And that's what's going on with the people in Palestine and Iraq right now.

 

I remember this picture...this man was sitting in his livingroom crying and there were 3 bodies on the floor...his mother and 2 brothers shot execution style. He wasn't even allowed to bury them and he had to look at his family dead on the floor for a few days. Or this pregnant woman in palestine (i don't remember if she was Muslim or Christian) first being raped by the Isreali soldiers and then they cut her stomach open and ripped out the baby...and her husband is forced to watch this being done to his wife. I mean these are just two stories, but there's tons. And when you go through something like that...I'm not saying it's right to blow yourself up, but i don't think that they're in a state where you can talk to them...although Muslims do try to.

 

About Muslims blaming the west, yes I've heard that many times as well. But at the same time Muslims are constantly blamed for terrorism. So it's just going back and forth and nothing really gets resolved because it's a blame game. But the thing is there's always 2 sides to the story. And it's really important to look at both sides.

 

What "the west" fails to do (i'm not saying everyone from the west because i know that's not true...i've met more people that believe Islam is peaceful than people who don't.) is to put themselves in the position of the people in the Middle East like Palestine and Iraq...and not just Muslims because there people of all faiths that live in those countries.

 

And what the people in the Middle East including Muslims fail to do is to put themselves in the position of the people in the west watching the news and hearing all these horrible things about Islam.

 

Of course, I don't have control of anyone except myself, and like you said "Muslims, just like the rest if us are ultimately judged by there actions" so all I can do is try to be an example to the people I meet.

 

So I hope that you not only judge Muslims and Islam by what you hear reported on the media, but also from what you read here and other Muslims who are trying to convey the message of peace, tolerance and understanding.

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PropellerAds

Well i for 1 dont judge all muslims.

 

But i do think that more muslims than u credit are , shall we say sympathetic or outright supporters of this jihad against the non-muslim west.

 

And for the vast majority of muslims there only source of knowledge is Islam, so we have to question wot it is they are learning.

 

If Islam is as peacefull as u claim then where do these ppl get these ideas, even scholars and imans can be heard praising attacks on the west. So there are 2 versions of Islam (ignoring the different sects for the sake of disscusion) out there.

 

The talibans actions (tho plenty muslims wont even accept this) and support of terrorism wouldnt fit in with ur idea of Islam, im assuming, i may be wrong.

 

No muslim did anything about them so the west had to, yet we are accused of crusades and warmongering etc. Wheres this 99% of muslims that arent being heard?, well now they are being heard and they have sided with this 1%, blaming the west.

 

Is the west just supposed to ignore this minority that wanna kill infidels, let them blow up buses and trains etc.

 

What exactly is this 99% doing to stop terrorism. Saying such and such isnt Islamic aint stopping anything.

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Well I can tell you in Egypt for example...seriously cracked down on the terrorist there. This was even before 9/11.

 

There were major movements to control the minority that want to cause terror because of their warped ideaologies. But people don't notice this effort simply because it was controlled before it got out of hand. To you, and others, it may seem like nothing is being done. But it is. But people can not control EVERYONE. It's impossible. You can only do so much. It's like telling the States to control the murders and rapes that go on. It may be possible for a percentage, but not 100%.

 

And Islam IS peaceful. And the proof is that if it wasn't peaceful, then wherever there are Muslims, there would be violence. And obviously this is not true.

 

All these suicide bombing and such are concentrated 99% in the Middle East region. Not spread out throughout the world evenly.

 

The west is not supposed to ignore this minority that want to kill infidels...but should think. Islam has existed for over 1400 years now, why all of a sudden in the past 5 years has this problem arose? Not to mention under the rule of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was the only time Jew and Christians were finally able to live in peace together. It doesn't make sense to blame Islam. There's something else that's extremely wrong.

 

If you took all the imams and the Islamic scholars of the world, they would severly out number the imams and scholars that have this extreme view. Again, unfortunately, the only ones that make it to the media are the ones that have the extreme view.

 

You say that no muslims did anything about them so the west had to. Well if you look at those countries now, they're in utter state of chaos. People can't even walk outside on the street without fear of being killed. The terrorists were controlled before, but without goverment and rule, they're free and confident to come out. And by attacking Iraq, the US has created more anger towards the west not only by Muslims, but lost the respect of a lot of of the countries. The fact is, after US attacking Afghanistan and Iraq the conditions are a lot worse than before.

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Peace.

 

Well, there is simple explaination to this (though some people will not agree with me) which is:

 

I will list which I think as a problem to the Muslim as whole.

 

1. Lack of FAITH.

They believe in One God and His prophet but they do no not do what they believe. They do not apply their faith in their daily lives.

 

2. Lack of TOLERANCE.

This is very significant among Muslim worldwide. They do not accept technological advancement or any sort of advancement (excluding moral decay, moral decay is a backward step, not advancement) as a tool to spread Islam. They talk about those religion is bad, evil and whatever but never researched about the religion. I don't even think they know what Islam really was.

 

3. Poverty, Lack of Education (especially about Islam teachings) and many more.

How do they know this bloody jihad is wrong when no one is telling them what is right or wrong? They read Qur'an and Hadith and only take what they want to take (and misinterpret them). Poverty: They desperate and opted for go to heaven mission (Jihad) because they lack of money to continue to survive in this world (although this world is the bridge to heaven, no shortcut)

 

There's a lot more reason why many Jihadist are desperately trying to kill people. Just hope this help you understand problems facing by muslim.

 

Peace again.

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What exactly is this 99% doing to stop terrorism. Saying such and such isnt Islamic aint stopping anything.

 

I'm a take a stab and say nothing really effective. Muslims can't fight against muslims under any cirtcumstances I believe?

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I agree with you Adul Rahman. I hate to sit here in my comfortable and safe home and talk about those people getting bombed on a daily basis. I thank God that I have the safety around me.

 

On 9/11 everyone in America was in a state of shock, including me. It was such a horrible event. And imagine in places like Iraq and Palestine...it's 9/11 x everyday. So what kind of state are those people in?

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I am interested in dialogue.

It is useful for me to read responses and ask questions.

Many of the responses seem to want to take me to task or take israel to task for bad behavior exhibited by perverse people who claim to be Muslim.

If you sincerely wish me to respond as to what I believe or think about israel, I will, but it is a childish argument to interject non-sequiters such "Oh yeah? What about your stupid dog?" into conversation that has nothing to do with dogs.

Such as:

sistaPeace:

moshe,your very adamant about all this "muslim killing"jargon,and yet your extremely light on the palestine/israel topic.you posted something about some israeli bigshot puttin down zionists.big deal.if thats so then how come its still carrying on,id like to know?

The words are there. But they don't mean anything.

It's a defensive mechanism to avoid grappling with the idea that there are millions of very perverse people who call themselves Muslims who murder people in rather spectacular ways, claiming that it is in the interest of their G-d.

This is a problem.

I think it would be useful for true Muslims to grapple with this idea without blaming it on israel or the United States or some other power.

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im afraid i dont know what your talking about,no offense intended.whilst i was writing that post,DOG never entered my mind and never will.i dont call human biengs DOGS or think of them as DOGS.we are PEOPLE not DOGS.thats clear i guess.what YOU are getting worked up about is a minority.it makes me angry how people can you just look at one side of a situation,and dont even TRY to understand.having said that,im not telling you to understand.funny how people ddont care about innocent muslims getting murdered every day,and when its a non-muslim,theres a big hoo-haa.WE have a right to get mad now n then.so go on olease,what ARE your views on israel/palestine situation then?say EVERYTHING you think about it,i really would like to know.WASSALAM

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I believe the man's point was that two wrongs do not make a right. The point of this topic was to discuss the muslim side. Pointing out that israel kills innocent ppl doesn't go very far as serving as an excuse to the behaviour of muslims who kill innocent ppl. As a third party I'm in opposition to both.

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im afraid i dont know what your talking about,no offense intended.whilst i was writing that post,DOG never entered my mind and never will.i dont call human biengs DOGS or think of them as DOGS.we are PEOPLE not DOGS.thats clear i guess.what YOU are getting worked up about is a minority.it makes me angry how people can you just look at one side of a situation,and dont even TRY to understand.having said that,im not telling you to understand.funny how people ddont care about innocent muslims getting murdered every day,and when its a non-muslim,theres a big hoo-haa.WE have a right to get mad now n then.so go on olease,what ARE your views on israel/palestine situation then?say EVERYTHING you think about it,i really would like to know.WASSALAM

I apologize, but I find it difficult to respond to someone who is not able to understand dialogue in context or even simple similes.

I will try and explain my difficulty:

When I responded to the statements taking me to task for not discussing israel, I was using an example of saying something that was totally irrelevant to the discussion and my inability to respond to something irrelevant - interjecting "dogs" into a conversation that has nothing to do with dogs was a metaphor.

3dshocker was correct when he wrote:

I believe the man's point was that two wrongs do not make a right. The point of this topic was to discuss the muslim side. Pointing out that israel kills innocent ppl doesn't go very far as serving as an excuse to the behaviour of muslims who kill innocent ppl. As a third party I'm in opposition to both.

 

I specifically referenced your quote because it made no sense to me. I do not wish to be offensive but, based on your reply, you apparently do not understand why it made no sense.

I will explain further:

sistaPeace wrote:

moshe,your very adamant about all this "muslim killing"jargon
,

No, I am not so "adamant." I am extremely troubled by (using a different definition than when I began), perverse people who call themselves Muslims murdering other people on a daily basis, mostly other Muslims.

and yet your extremely light on the palestine/israel topic.

Because it is not particularly relevant to the topic, unless you are trying to tell me that Muslims are justified in committing suicide in order to murder israelis. As near as I can tell, yusufar has informed me that Muslims do not commit suicide, nor do they murder other people. Therefore, the israeli / Arab conflict doesn't seem to be relevant to the discussion.

you posted something about some israeli bigshot puttin down zionists.big deal.if thats so then how come its still carrying on,id like to know?

This particular phrase is incomprehensible to me. I do not understand what you are writing about.

 

My point being is that if what I am writing is incomprehensible to you, I don't see the point of writing more incomprehensible stuff because you don't like israel....

Dialogue is good. Discussion is good. Understanding is to be desired. Zinging way off into some left field argument that makes no sense is not to be desired.

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As for the changing terrorism in Islamic world part, i'd just say unrestricted education is the best solution. The more educated a society is, the better morals and principles they form. It would also help the local economy.

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Salaam,

 

I'd agree about education. If people are educated they can read things for themselves, holy books and newspapers, instead of merely relying on being told by other people. Educating everyone, male and female, is one of the most important things a state can do. However, we must remember that someone such as bin Laden was highly educated but I cannot, in any way, feel this diminishes from the importance of education on a population as a whole.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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True, education can lead to dangerous things like the H-bomb but it's a necessary tool for survival. Also, I meant to place a bit of emphasis on the "unrestricted" part. Students should not be limited by what the state wants them to know. In other words, in the middle east people should be allowed to learn about non Islamic things. Learning only what the state wants you to know and think can be dangerous as it builds a divide between people of different cultures. It is the cause of quite a bit of problems that the middle eastern areas have with the rest of the world. Similar to how japan will have problems due to the way they run their history classes.

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I'm not sure if you guys have been to the Middle East?

 

But if you haven't it's probably a lot different than what you are thinking. There are Masjids next to Churches, libraries inside different embassies. My uncle, who is a Muslim, made it a point to bring his kids inside a Church to let them see what it is like.

 

There's internet, satellite, tourists, people of all different faiths. I mean they are not exactly closed up. In the poorer areas, they are not as educated not because it is being prevented, but because it is seen as unnecessary because the primary importance to them is how to get food in their mouths.

 

In Manhattan, they made a program for 3rd graders that they HAVE to be taught about HIV otherwise they can not go onto the 4th grade. A lot of the mothers had problems with this because they believe their kids are too young to learn about HIV. I mean they're only in the 3rd grade! The mothers said why not put the money into a music program or something?

 

Or Christopher Columbus "discovering" America is the American version of how they would like the story to go. This is what the Country would like for you to believe. And people still to this day believe that Christopher Columbus was the first discoverer of America...although there's plenty of evidence that he wasn't.

 

Or if you take a map of the world that's printed today and turn it upside down, that's how the first maps actually were printed. However Europeans realizing the significance of Europe being beneath Africa, and how small it made the continent look, they flipped the map to how it is today so that they would be on top of Africa.

 

Students should not be limited by what the state wants them to know...I agree with you, but this is a problem all over the world...not just the Middle East.

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ppl still believe columbus discovered america? :D

 

In canada we do a pretty good job of this unrestricted education thingy :D

 

It's mostly from the govt having crappy levels of power but hey, it's still good :D

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Salaam,

 

So education (to teach people how to read etc) and then free access to information we seem to agree on.

 

What else? The London 7/7 bombers were educated, lived in a free society, had access to free information etc and still did a terrorist act. Oppression is hardly the key in their case (although they did come from Leeds so they might have felt anything was better...JOKING!).

 

Why is it at the point in time that Islam and terrorism have become synonmous? Why are today's terrorist Muslims whereas in the past they were Irish or Basque?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Good question Darla...it is something to think about. I mean when I watch the news these days...they just say stuff like in Iraq, a suicide car bomber this and that....

 

They don't even say Muslim suicide bomber, but most people are now trained to think that every suicide bomber is a Muslim. It's very interesting and a powerful tool..this media.

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So far as "terrorism goes" i'd say every govt has horrible secrets, the bodies of authority labeled terrorists are the ones that do the worst jobs of covering it up.

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Salaam,

 

I think maybe the particular association between Muslim and terrorist is the use of the suicide bomber which is relatively unique to Muslim terrorist. Whilst the Japanese kamikaze pilots may have started it and the tamils continued it, the use of suicide as a weapon of war against civilians is unfortunately the unique tool of Muslim terrorists. It is a particularly scary weapon as it turns people against each other in a whole new way. Whilst in the 1980s Londoners would be wary of an abandoned package or van in a public place, to look at a human being in the same way means a massive breakdown in trust which has unfortunately now been achieved by the 7/7 bombers.

 

Is it worth exploring why the suicide bomber who targets civilians is the type of terrorism most associated with Muslim terrorists?

To me part of the issue is religious teaching, it helps to have a paradise ideology if you are giving up your life and certainly some scholars (such as abu hamza amoungst others) are teaching their students that 'kill the infidel' is what the Quran teaches and that the 'infidels' are the 'evil' civilians and citizens of the west (immoral and corrupt beings, all of us). However, this cannot be all of the reason. Many religions have paradise for martyrs, many religions have verses which can be read as 'kill the unbeliever', so why is it Muslim terrorists who have read it as literal God-ordained injunction?

 

Oppression? well, it sounds plausible to an extent but plenty of cultures have suffered massive oppresion without retaliating in this way. The Jews throughout most of European history but especially the pogroms and under the Nazis; black Africans during colonial expansion; the chinese under the japanese invasion to name but a few.

 

Technology? This, to me, sounds like a stronger factor. The same way as industrialisation and modern science have re-written the way in which humans kill other humans in conventional war, so the same goes for non-conventional attacks. Put simply, the reason we haven't seen suicide bombers in other eras of history was it wasn't scientifically or technologically possible.

 

But we then come back to the question, throughout the twentieth century the technology has been available so why is it this particular group which has picked up on it?

 

Of course, whatever reason it is is going to have multiple causes and factors but the combination of paradise ideology, oppression and technology seems insufficient but I can't think of what is lacking. Any ideas?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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okay thanx for the insult moishe3rd but actually i understand perfectly well what you are talking about,im actually considered a very intelligent person(not showin off just tryin to make you understand!)but i admit i do tend to fly off the handle too quick and slip off the subject.alright i get what you are saying and i just want to say,yusufar is right,Islam completely forbids suicide,killing innocents,actually when the the mercy to the worlds,muhammad peace be upon him,used to go to war hed order that nothing should be burnt,women and children and old men were not to be harmed in any way,unarmed people could not be attacked.theres the evidence that Islam despises killing,murder,and hostility.il get to the point,now,youl get some sicko's or twisted people with warped ideas,who use religion for there own needs,and twist the teachings of the prophet n Islam to support there actions.and some muslims may support them,but WHY they support them,they may have another reason.i repeat,these killeers whatever they'r in the minority,youl probs find a small band of them in every country(muslim groups,christian groups,jewish groups),and my point is;THE MINORITY OF US MUSLIMS ARE PEACE-LOVING).im sure y'all have heard the word FUNDAMENTALIST???well,check it up in the dictionary and itl tell you it simply means someone who strictly follows his religion.well,a true fundamentalist will always put down murder etc cuz Islam condemns such acts.my daa im proud to say is a vry strict well known fundamentalist muslim,and HE HATES KILLING OF ANY KIND.i hope i made more sense here.peace be on u all.

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