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Moishe3rd

How Do You Change The Terrorism Of The Islamic World?

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goog god, that paragraph was a grammatical nightmare! Slow down girl, I get the feeling you typed that waaaaay too fast.

 

Your dad is a fundamentalist muslim? Bad choice of words as it has bad meanings associated with it. Stick to pure muslim or something.

 

Anywho that's still a bad position to be in as it shuts you off from considering other possibilities on any subject ne? Is it not the epitomy of "close mindedness"?

Edited by 3dshocker

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Salaam,

 

I think maybe the particular association between Muslim and terrorist is the use of the suicide bomber which is relatively unique to Muslim terrorist. Whilst the Japanese kamikaze pilots may have started it and the tamils continued it, the use of suicide as a weapon of war against civilians is unfortunately the unique tool of Muslim terrorists. It is a particularly scary weapon as it turns people against each other in a whole new way. Whilst in the 1980s Londoners would be wary of an abandoned package or van in a public place, to look at a human being in the same way means a massive breakdown in trust which has unfortunately now been achieved by the 7/7 bombers.

 

Is it worth exploring why the suicide bomber who targets civilians is the type of terrorism most associated with Muslim terrorists?

To me part of the issue is religious teaching, it helps to have a paradise ideology if you are giving up your life and certainly some scholars (such as abu hamza amoungst others) are teaching their students that 'kill the infidel' is what the Quran teaches and that the 'infidels' are the 'evil' civilians and citizens of the west (immoral and corrupt beings, all of us). However, this cannot be all of the reason. Many religions have paradise for martyrs, many religions have verses which can be read as 'kill the unbeliever', so why is it Muslim terrorists who have read it as literal God-ordained injunction?

 

Oppression? well, it sounds plausible to an extent but plenty of cultures have suffered massive oppresion without retaliating in this way. The Jews throughout most of European history but especially the pogroms and under the Nazis; black Africans during colonial expansion; the chinese under the japanese invasion to name but a few.

 

Technology? This, to me, sounds like a stronger factor. The same way as industrialisation and modern science have re-written the way in which humans kill other humans in conventional war, so the same goes for non-conventional attacks. Put simply, the reason we haven't seen suicide bombers in other eras of history was it wasn't scientifically or technologically possible.

 

But we then come back to the question, throughout the twentieth century the technology has been available so why is it this particular group which has picked up on it?

 

Of course, whatever reason it is is going to have multiple causes and factors but the combination of paradise ideology, oppression and technology seems insufficient but I can't think of what is lacking. Any ideas?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

 

IMHO

(In my humble opinion):

I am willing to accept yusufar's admonition and not call these terrorists Muslims. However, as I previously stated, there are a large, vocal, and active population of perverse people who claim to be Muslims who believe that murder and destruction are sanctioned by the religion they claim to be a part of...

I suspect that if all people who considered themselves to be true Muslims of Peace, categorically condemned all violence and destruction by anyone claiming to be a Muslim for any reason whatsoever, that these perverse people would lose their followings and their actions would then appear odious and evil.

I suspect that the attraction of these perverse acts of violence is that even those who are opposed to violence and murder feel somewhat strenghtened and sastified that perverse people claiming to be Muslims have somehow made Islam and Muslim countries in general, important and they have been thrust prominently upon the world's stage.

I suspect that most Muslims do not realize that the religion of Christianity is a dead issue as far as political and secular power is concerned in today's world.

I suspect that Muslims view Christianity as having dominated the Western world for the last 1,500 years and "Christian" nations as having dominated the Muslim world for last 150 years.

This, factually speaking, is not actually true, as the "Western" world, neither Europe or North America, are predominately Christian nations in the political sense of the world.

But, with the resurgence in the independence of Muslim countries and the power that has come with oil wealth, I suspect that most it makes most Muslims feel better about themselves and their religion to view these murders by perverse people in the name of Islam as a conflict between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-harb - which consists, I suspect, in the Muslim mind, mainly as Christianity (although India and Hinduism have certainly become major players in the minds of perverse people who want to murder other people in the name of Islam).

Now add Judaism and israel to that mix and I believe that a situation which, if it weren't so tragic and awful, would be comical, occurs in the Muslim world.

Judaism is the smallest of religions (there are approximately 13 million Jews in the world, of which about 1 to 2 million are actually religious - that is, who actually believe in Judaism and the Torah). Statistically speaking, Jews don't even exist on this planet.

Yet, after being totally annihilated by the Nazis in World War II, a miniscule handful; a tattered remnant; managed to create the State of israel and have held off everything that the Arab and Muslim world has thrown at them.

I suspect that this defeat at the hands of a non-existent people has driven certain perverse people who claim to be Muslims, completely out of their minds. This humiliation has been so great that even those Muslims who are not perverse people and who believe in peace have listened to those insane people when they proclaim how evil israel is and how the "West" is controlled by "Zionist Christians" and when they say that the only way to regain the "honor" of the Arab culture that was believed, by these perverse people who call themselves Muslims, to have been sullied by this ridiculous defeat at the hands of a non-existent people, is to commit great acts of murder and destruction and to never stop until the world are all slaves, Muslims, or dead.

 

However, there is one piece of logic that seems to me to be inescapable.

I am quite postive that Islam contains one of the same tenets (many more, but just this one that I am concerned with at this time), as does the Christian bible or the Jewish Torah, although I profess my ignorance of exactly where this is written. But, I have read it before.

Namely - it is the idea that, when a person is defeated; or impoverished; or his family is killed; or humiliated; or other such tragedies, over and over again, then it is written that G-d is not pleased with the actions of this person (or, in the larger sense, these peoples).

I am amazingly curious, as I know this to be true of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, as to why Muslims do not seem to acknowledge that perhaps the suffering or setbacks that have happened, in general, over the last few hundred years, are not perhaps an indication that certain Muslims, or even simply perverse people who call themselves Muslims, are on the wrong track?

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However, there is one piece of logic that seems to me to be inescapable.

I am quite postive that Islam contains one of the same tenets (many more, but just this one that I am concerned with at this time), as does the Christian bible or the Jewish Torah, although I profess my ignorance of exactly where this is written. But, I have read it before.

Namely - it is the idea that, when a person is defeated; or impoverished; or his family is killed; or humiliated; or other such tragedies, over and over again, then it is written that G-d is not pleased with the actions of this person (or, in the larger sense, these peoples).

I am amazingly curious, as I know this to be true of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, as to why Muslims do not seem to acknowledge that perhaps the suffering or setbacks that have happened, in general, over the last few hundred years, are not perhaps an indication that certain Muslims, or even simply perverse people who call themselves Muslims, are on the wrong track?

 

God says that anything good comes from Him, and anything bad comes from the action of yourself.

 

This is paragraph is very interesting and I believe also true to some extent. I believe it was yusufar that said it's the lack of applied faith? I do think that some Muslims are on the wrong track. Some people are going this way and that way and taking small parts from the Quran without reading the whole verse, and taking advantage of it. So it can be that all the suffering and setbacks are happening because of that, OR it could also be that Muslims as a whole are being tested right now.

 

In Islam, the Mehdi is prophesized to come to bring unity peace and justice not only to Muslims but to everyone. And at the time when the Mehdi comes, it is described that he will bring the entire Muslims of the world back on the true track of Islam because a lot of Muslims have gone completely off.

 

So it definately could be what you say because it is already going that way, but God knows best.

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God says that anything good comes from Him, and anything bad comes from the action of yourself.

 

We were created by god--->therefore we are good--->we do bad things--->God created good things that do bad things :D

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I am not sure if this is the right place in this Forum for this question, but I am sincere. Please direct me to the correct forum here, if this is not where I should be posting this.

Thank you....

 

There is a large faction of Muslims, tens of millions or more, of many stripes and beliefs who accept and promote the idea that the murder of innocents is perfectly allowable under the umbrella of Islamic Jihad. These Islamic Jihaddists are joined by Arabs who are nominally Muslim who also engage in this form of terrorism to promote their own nationalistic; pan-Arab; tribal; and despotic ends.

 

The majority of these murders are committed against their fellow Muslims and/or Arabs.

The daily attacks in Iraq; the assassinations and bombings in Pakistan; the battles in Afghanistan; the near civil war amongst the Arabs called Palestinians; are all examples of Muslims, claiming to be fighting for Islam, murdering their fellow Muslims.

Nonetheless, in addition to murdering their own fellow Muslims, Muslims continue to murder non-Muslims, from Nigeria to New York; from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia; and from Russia to israel,

The avowed goal of these Islamic Jihad death cultists is to make “their†faction of Islam the dominant religion on earth, conquering all others and establishing their Islamic hegemony over the world.

There is an overall Islamic obsession with murder and destruction in achieving these goals of world hegemony. The reason for these murders and destruction vary amongst the different Islamic factions:

They result from a belief that “their†land is being violated – such as their incessant attacks against israel.

They result from a belief that “their†culture is being violated – such as their attacks against the United States; India; Spain; Russia; and other non-Muslim countries.

And, they result simply from the idea that their religious beliefs are being violated – such as their Cartoon Jihad; the incessant internecine warfare between Shia, Sunni, and other Muslim factions; or their attacks against Arab or nominally Islamic countries throughout the Middle East, North Africa and Asia.

 

This kind of warfare, destruction and murder in the name of Islam has been ongoing since the inception of Islam. Due to the unlimited funding of the oil rich Muslim nations of the Middle East and through the advent of modern technology and communications, this Islamic Jihad desire for world dominance has grown and prospered over the last fifty years until we have the logical next step in this saga where a Muslim theocracy, Iran, proclaims that it will use its resources and technology to acquire nuclear weapons in order to wage nuclear war against the infidels.

 

This lust for blood and death appears to be an ongoing process that is never going to stop, unless the Islamists themselves begin preaching and teaching that death and destruction is not the way to world hegemony and that this deadly Jihad against the world is not the way to their Islamic heaven.

My question is then – how?

How does the world get Islam, a religion of over a billion adherents, with ten of millions or more who believe in their bloody Islamic Jihad, to stop murdering mass numbers of innocent people and to cease their goal of world conquest rooted in this orgy of death and destruction?

 

 

The Muslims are defending their nations against the Christians who are invading and plundering the Muslim nations. The Christians are persecuting, torturing, raping and massacring innocent Muslim babies, children, women, eldery people, unarmed men etc in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechya etc. Is it wrong for the Muslims to defend their motherland against the Christians? Was it wrong for George Washington and the Americans to fight the British who were occupying USA? Was it wrong for the French people to fight against the German forces that invaded and plundered French etc?

 

The American Forces have murdered hundreds of thousands of Muslim babies, children, women, eldery people, unarmed men etc in Iraq and Afghanistan! Is it wrong for Muslims to defend their nation and the defenceless Muslim babies, children, women, eldery people, unarmed men etc in Iraq and Afghanistan!

 

The Russian forces have massacred 200 000 Muslim babies, children, women, eldery people, unarmed men etc in Chechya. Is it wrong for Muslims to defend their nation and the defenceless Muslim babies, children, women, eldery people, unarmed men etc in Iraq and Afghanistan!

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Salaam,

 

And it appears that you have massively misunderstood or not read what moishe3rd said about the absence of 'Christian Nations'. I agree with him, there is no such thing. The clash of conflicts is not between the Christians and the Muslims, there is no intention to 'wipe out' Muslims. The conflict is between those who feel that basic human rights triumph over any religious calling and that religion should be a rpivate thing for people and there should be freedom of conscience, and those who believe the opposite to be true.

 

Trying to paint the conflict as a religious one is simply a way of making the actions of suicde bombers appear more acceptable. It is not a religous struggle. The 9/11, Madrid and 7/7 bombers acted because they hated the west, not because they hated Christians.

 

As for defendgint he motherland, oh please! Afghanistan was a hell-hole where ethnic clensing, war and systematic rape was commited by the dominant, ruling force. Saddam had gassed over 5000 kurds and life was dominated by fear. The west would love to have left these coutrnies a while ago, unfortunately the desire of the west is to see these coutnries peaceful, unified and prosperous whereas the terrorist insurgants who are tearing them apart want the opposite and the west won't leave until there is a reasonable level of peace. If there hadn't been an insurgency there wouldn't be foreign soldiers in Iraq now. So are 'Muslims' defending the 'motherland' when Sunnis shoot Shias and Shias shoot Sunnis? No. The purpose of the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't a land grab, it was to remove two truly vicious regimes.

 

Is the conflict between Christians and Muslims? No. The defining religious ideology of the West today is liberal-secularism. It is that which underpins the governmentality of the country, not a single dominant religous group.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

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Salaam,

 

And it appears that you have massively misunderstood or not read what moishe3rd said about the absence of 'Christian Nations'. I agree with him, there is no such thing. The clash of conflicts is not between the Christians and the Muslims, there is no intention to 'wipe out' Muslims. The conflict is between those who feel that basic human rights triumph over any religious calling and that religion should be a rpivate thing for people and there should be freedom of conscience, and those who believe the opposite to be true.

 

Trying to paint the conflict as a religious one is simply a way of making the actions of suicde bombers appear more acceptable. It is not a religous struggle. The 9/11, Madrid and 7/7 bombers acted because they hated the west, not because they hated Christians.

 

As for defendgint he motherland, oh please! Afghanistan was a hell-hole where ethnic clensing, war and systematic rape was commited by the dominant, ruling force. Saddam had gassed over 5000 kurds and life was dominated by fear. The west would love to have left these coutrnies a while ago, unfortunately the desire of the west is to see these coutnries peaceful, unified and prosperous whereas the terrorist insurgants who are tearing them apart want the opposite and the west won't leave until there is a reasonable level of peace. If there hadn't been an insurgency there wouldn't be foreign soldiers in Iraq now. So are 'Muslims' defending the 'motherland' when Sunnis shoot Shias and Shias shoot Sunnis? No. The purpose of the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't a land grab, it was to remove two truly vicious regimes.

 

Is the conflict between Christians and Muslims? No. The defining religious ideology of the West today is liberal-secularism. It is that which underpins the governmentality of the country, not a single dominant religous group.

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

 

Who are invading and plundering Muslim nations such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechya etc? The Christians who are Americans, British, Russians etc are invading and plundering Muslim nations. And the Christians are persecuting, torturing, raping and massacring innocent Muslim babies, children, women, elderly people and unarmed men. The Christian forces are bombarding and bombing civilian targets in Muslim nations and the Christians are abusing Quran and Masjids and they even murdered Muslims in cold blood in Masjids in Muslim nations. This enmity prove that Christians are anti-Islam.

 

Darla....Do you like if foreign nations invade your nation under the pretext of liberating your nation? Will you conspire with the foreigners? Bush has invaded Iraq using his own lies such as the non-existent WMDs!

 

During Saddam's era Iraq was better than the American occupation of Iraq. The Americans have turned Iraq into a chaotic nation! The American troops are the Naziis indeed for murdering innocent Iraqi people in cold blood. For example: In Haditha Iraq the American marines had massacred 24 Iraqi babies, children, women and elderly people. So disgutsing and brutal!

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A Masjid is a place of worship for followers of the Islamic faith. Masǧid or Masjid (pl. masajid) (Arabic: ãÓÌ×pronounced: // or //) is one of two Arabic terms for a Masjid.

 

masjid = mosque

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Salaam,

 

And I'm afriad you have now misunderstood the first point of my post. Please tell me why you wish to define it as Christians commiting these acts rather than 'the West'. Secularist and liberal would both be accurate terms, the use of the word Christian in this context would need justification I'm afraid.

 

Would I like someone to come in and free me from tyranny? Yes please! it is only a nationalist who would say otherwise!

 

Your courtesey in explaining the word masjid is appreciated as I may have been unfamiliar with it, thank you.

 

I would like evidence from news sources such as BBC, CNN or Al-jazeera (ie: mainstream) that 'Western' Forces are raping people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Until then I'm afraid I must conclude that you are being overly generous with fiction.

 

In Haditha some American soldiers have been accused of a mssacre but it has been condemned in the strongest terms by the American government. Labelling all American soldiers 'nazis' on the basis of the misbehaviour of a few makes as much sense os me saying all Muslims are terrorists because a few have blown themselves up.

 

The majority of people killed in Iraq are not killed by US or GB forces. They are killed in sectarian attacks. For example, the recent story of the bus which was stopped, the only people left alive (and this bus was filled with children o the way to exams) were 4 sunni men, all the others had been slaughtered by militants.

 

If we wanted to 'genocide' Muslims so badly I'm sure we would start in our own countries (because it would be easier). The fact Muslim immigrants are still invited to settle here, still free to practice religion and customs would suggest your assertion of genocide might need a re-think. The holocaust was genocide, Bosnia was genocide, Rwanda was genocide, Darfur is genocide.

 

If I may, the level of hypoerbole used detracts from your arguement. I would advice you in the future to make sure you have evidence and double check exactly what you are saying.

 

How would you change the terrorism of the Arab world? Do you feel an internal solution is necessay or do you think it is outside factors which must take the hole of the blame?

 

Peace and Love,

 

DARLA

Edited by darla_1753

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I quote :"Would I like someone to come in and free me from tyranny? Yes please! it is only a nationalist who would say otherwise!"

 

Do you like if Hitler and his Nazi forces invade your nation while claiming that they are liberating your nation? The US government an the US forces had invaded Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua etc while claiming that they were libertaing the nations and end up killing millions of innocent foreigners!

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I quote :"Would I like someone to come in and free me from tyranny? Yes please! it is only a nationalist who would say otherwise!"

 

Do you like if Hitler and his Nazi forces invade your nation while claiming that they are liberating your nation? The US government an the US forces had invaded Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua etc while claiming that they were libertaing the nations and end up killing millions of innocent foreigners!

 

Correction: The US government an the US forces had invaded Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua etc while claiming that they were liberating the nations and end up killing millions of innocent foreigners!

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Bush claims that he invades Iraq for the WMDs!

His lies are exposed by his own cronies: Colin Powell, February 2001: "[saddam] has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq."

Condoleeza Rice, July 2001: "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

 

Therefore the American invasion of Iraq is illegal ! The US forces are just like the Nazi SS !

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Iraq WMD Lies:

The Words of Mass Deception

The Lie of the Century

 

How the Iraq war was sold to the US public: "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."

George W Bush, 5/24/05

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Asked why a nuclear power such as North Korea was being treated differently from Iraq, where hardly any weapons of mass destruction had been found, [Paul Wolfowitz] said: "Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil." [Guardian 4/6/2003]

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ONE OF THE TOP FIVE LIES

ABOUT THE AFGHANISTAN WAR:"The U.S. is trying to liberate the people of Afghanistan from Taliban tyranny."

 

Reality: The U.S., Russia, and Iran have been aiding a rough coalition of armed groups called the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance's fighters are drawn mainly from ethnic minority groups in Afghanistan who have been persecuted by the Taliban. But their record is also a bloody one. Groups like the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), which have been fighting against fundamentalism and for democracy in Afghanistan for years, have publicly stated that the fundamentalist gangsters of the Northern Alliance are not an acceptable alternative to the fundamentalist gangsters of the Taliban. No wonder: Human Rights Watch implicates the Northern Alliance in "indiscriminate aerial bombardment and shelling, direct attacks on civilians, summary executions, rape, persecution on the basis of religion or ethnicity, the recruitment and use of children as soldiers, and the use of antipersonnel landmines." By now everyone knows that Osama bin Laden was among the mujihadin recruited by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Meet the next generation.

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An account of mistreatment of girls and boys in Iraqi prisons:

 

“Undressing, blows and cold waterâ€

 

Internal UNICEF report: USA intern children for an indefinite time without legal process

 

 

 

MAINZ. According to inquiries undertaken by the ARD political magazine REPORT MAINZ, indications increase that, within Iraqi prisons, US soldiers even mistreated children and youngsters. Two different sources independently recorded the inhuman treatment of imprisoned minors within the premises of the scandalous prison Abu Ghreib, according to REPORT MAINZ.

 

Samuel Provance, sergeant of the military secret service, and who was stationed at Abu Ghreib, in an exclusive interview with REPORT MAINZ reported that US interrogation specialists importuned a girl inside her cell. Military police did not intervene until the 15 to 16 year odl girl was half naked.

 

According to Provance, a 16 year old boy was showered with water and then driven through the cold (night). Afterwards they “smeared†the boy “with mud†and presented him to his father who was prisoned as well. “After he saw his son in such condition his heart brokeâ€, says Provance. “He cried and promised to tell everything he knewâ€.

 

A reporter with the Arab TV station Al-Jazeera, Suhaib Badr-Addin Al-Baz, himself prisoned for 74 days at Abu Ghreib, told REPORT MAINZ, how a 12 year old girl was knocked around by US soldiers. The Journalist was the first to inform about a prison camp for children. “When they brought me from the cell into the camp, there was an independent camp for children, young, below puberty. For sure there were hundreds of children in that camp.â€

 

The United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) acknowleged the imprisonment of Iraqi children through foreign military personnell. REPORT MAINZ has available an internal report of the Children’s Fund, from which it becomes apparent that the occupation forces hold Iraqi children as prisoners of war in internment custody. Verbatim it says in the yet undisclosed report, dated June 2004: “Children, which were arrested for reasons of alleged activities against the occupation forces in Basra and Kerbala, were routinely handed over to an internment custody in Um Quasr, according to reports. The categorisation of such children as “internmentsâ€is alarming, as it means indetermined custody without contact to the family, the prospect of a process or trial.â€

 

Additionally the UNICEF document mentiones a new established prison camp for children in Baghdad. In July 2003 UNICEF applied for a visit of this installation. However, UNICEF was barred from entering. Says the report: “Insufficient security within the premises of this prison camp†has banned independent observers “since December 2003â€.

 

Also the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) confirms the internment of children and youngsters through the coalition forces; among others in the infamous torture prison of Abu Ghreib. Florian Westphal, speaker of the ICRC in Geneva, tild REPORT MAINZ: “Between January and May this year we registered 107 children, and this in the wake of 19 visits on six different prison premises. Here it needs to be emphasised that these are prison compounds who really are controlled by the coalition forces.†The number of prisoned children may well be higher than this.

 

According to the internal UNICEF report the Children’s Fund “via a variety of channels†tries to find out more in regard to the internment conditions of childrens, and “to ensure that their rights do not get infringedâ€.

 

The British Ministry of Defence informed REPORT MAINZ not to keep any imprisoned children in Iraq at this time. The US Ministry of Defence until now did not show any reaction towards a submitted request.

 

The Human Rights Organisation Amnesty International in REPORT MAINZ demands clarification about internments of children. Barbara Lochbihler, general secretary of the German section, declared: “The US government has to reply to this report. It has to provide precise information: How old are the children, what are the reasons for internment, what were the circumstances of them being taken prisoners, and whether children were subjected to torture and mistreatment.â€

 

Barbara Lochbihler further: “The report is dated June 2004 and what is infuriating is that those US persons in charge and the governments seem not to have taken it up in earnest to throw light on such incidents. (...) And here we even do not know the names of the children, how many children we talk about. Independent inspections are unwanted. This is scandalous.â€

 

Also the internal UNICEF document displays severe criticism towards the practice of internment by the occupation forces. Verbatim it says: “The perceived unjustified internment of male Iraqis, including minors, on suspicion of activities against the occupation forces, has become a major reason for the growing frustration among male youngsters and a potential for radicalisation among this part of the population.â€

 

CONCLUSION: THE US GOVERNMENT IS THE BIGGEST TERRORIST!

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:D/Peace To All

 

Look for the root causes of terrorism. Something must have triggered this wave.

 

Stop: injustice, double standards, oppression, tyranny, imperialism, invasions, occupations, interventions, supporting dictators, muzzling free speech, lack of true democracy, torture, inhumane treatment of people, the theft of the Third World, poverty, equal opportunity, etc., and terrorism will cease to exist.

 

It's a 2-way street...Actions beget reactions...

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Secularist and liberal would both be accurate terms, the use of the word Christian in this context would need justification I'm afraid.

Oh ..please ...the christian neo cons and the liberalists are in it together..though their goals are different ,here they agree for different selfish reasons

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Very well put, Darla.

I wish someone like yusafar would come back and explain, argue or defend...

That would be useful...

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Darla said: I would like evidence from news sources such as BBC, CNN or Al-jazeera (ie: mainstream) that 'Western' Forces are raping people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Until then I'm afraid I must conclude that you are being overly generous with fiction.

 

 

Some proofs that show how brutal the US troops are:

 

1)February 2, 2006 - (Alternet) - In a startling revelation, the former commander of Abu Ghraib prison testified that Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, former senior U.S.military commander in Iraq, gave orders to cover up the cause of death for some female American soldiers serving in Iraq. Last week, Col. Janis Karpinski told a panel of judges at the Commission of Inquiry for Crimes against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration in New York that several women had died of dehydration because they refused to drink liquids late in the day.

They were afraid of being assaulted or even raped by male soldiers if they had to use the women's latrine after dark.

 

The latrine for female soldiers at Camp Victory wasn't located near their barracks, so they had to go outside if they needed to use the bathroom. "There were no lights near any of their facilities, so women were doubly easy targets in the dark of the night," Karpinski told retired U.S. Army Col. David Hackworth in a September 2004 interview.

 

It was there that male soldiers assaulted and raped women soldiers. So the women took matters into their own hands. They didn't drink in the late afternoon so they wouldn't have to urinate at night. They didn't get raped. But some died of dehydration in the desert heat, Karpinski said.

(Source: PeaceWomen

Women's International League for Peace and Freedom)

 

The following are excerpts from an investigation by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba (which was ordered by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of Joint Task Force-7. (Complete text of the Taguba report is posted at the MSNBC site.)

In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses

 

a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

 

b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

 

c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

 

d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

 

e. Threatening male detainees with rape;

 

f. Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

 

g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

 

h. Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

 

(T)he intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:

 

a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

 

b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

 

c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

 

d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

 

e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;

 

f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

 

g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

 

h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

 

i. Writing “I am a Rapest†(sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

 

j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

 

k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

 

l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

 

m. Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

 

These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements.

 

The various detention facilities operated by the 800th MP Brigade have routinely held persons brought to them by Other Government Agencies (OGAs) without accounting for them, knowing their identities, or even the reason for their detention. The Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib called these detainees “ghost detainees.â€

 

On at least one occasion, the 320th MP Battalion at Abu Ghraib held a handful of “ghost detainees†(6-8) for OGAs that they moved around within the facility to hide them from a visiting International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) survey team. This maneuver was deceptive, contrary to Army Doctrine, and in violation of international law.

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Stop: injustice, double standards, oppression, tyranny, imperialism, invasions, occupations, interventions, supporting dictators, muzzling free speech, lack of true democracy, torture, inhumane treatment of people, the theft of the Third World, poverty, equal opportunity, etc., and terrorism will cease to exist.

 

Perfect description of your average muslim country. :D

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Best way to stop terrorism in the Islamic world is to distribute some Bob Marley records. Don't Worry, Be Happy :D

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:D/Peace To All

 

Look for the root causes of terrorism. Something must have triggered this wave.

 

Stop: injustice, double standards, oppression, tyranny, imperialism, invasions, occupations, interventions, supporting dictators, muzzling free speech, lack of true democracy, torture, inhumane treatment of people, the theft of the Third World, poverty, equal opportunity, etc., and terrorism will cease to exist.

 

It's a 2-way street...Actions beget reactions...

I would humbly suggest that the root causes of this current wave of terrorism are to be found in the previous wave of terrorism, to be found in the wave before that and before that and before that....

In my original response to yusafar, I noted that modern day Saudi Arabia and therefore much of the terrorism of the modern day world that is perpetrated by perverts who call themselves Muslims, originated two hundred years ago in the rocks of the Najd under the tutelage of a self styled prophet named Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab and a Najd chieftain named Muhammad bin Saud.

This new cult created by perverts who call themselves Muslims has been responsible for the slaughter and death of hundreds of thousands of Muslims who did not, or do not, believe in this particular perverse belief by those who call themselves Muslims and has managed to destroy and invade and finally conquer, the Muslim holy city of Mecca.

This would seem to be a useful place to look for a "root cause" of terrorism...

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Very well put, Darla.

I wish someone like yusafar would come back and explain, argue or defend...

That would be useful...

 

Your wish is my command (sometimes! :D ). But it would also be useful in the first place to know what is it that needs to be explained, argued or defended...

 

yusufar

Edited by yusufar

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