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Is Bible The Word Of God

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Peace all,

To Christians with love

 

Answer this please,

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

Q. Seven hundred or seven thousand?

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Peace all,

To Christians with love

 

Answer this please,

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

Q. Seven hundred or seven thousand?

:D

This thread was moved here by me...

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Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahee wa Barakatu

 

The bible contains truth but it is intermingled with alterations here and there. Such different information sometimes also appear in the Hadeeth. However, the bible is not the word of God. However, one can find the truth in the bible if one is open minded and knows how to read it. It is a matter of wanting to know the truth.

 

Salam

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Peace all,

To Christians with love

 

Answer this please,

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

Q. Seven hundred or seven thousand?

 

Grace and Peace s.a.m.y,

 

The correct answer is 'seven thousand'. This is a particular scribal error in the Masoretic Text which was also used as the 'source text' for the Protestant KJV, ASV, NASB translations of the Old Testament as well as the recent NAB translation by the USCCB.

 

You will not find this scribal error in the LXX, Latin Vulgate nor the Protesant NIV. Also note that the Byzantine Text don't have this scribal error either again only the Masoretic Text.

 

Peace and God Bless.

Edited by Ignatius

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The bible is the words of the men who wrote it. Simple as that, and just to be fair, the Quran is no different.

 

P.S. Books don't write themselves.

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The bible is the words of the men who wrote it. Simple as that, and just to be fair, the Quran is no different.
Yes and No.

 

Yes that men wrote both books however Quran was never changed, edited, parts taken out, parts added in from the original revelations like the current Gospel is.

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Yes and No.

 

Yes that men wrote both books however Quran was never changed, edited, parts taken out, parts added in from the original revelations like the current Gospel is.

 

Grace and peace Hasib,

 

Was it not the duty of Zayd to "search out the various chapters and verse of the Qur'an and gather it together" during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr? Was it not during the Caliphate of Uthman that serveral Muslim communities were using different versions of the Qur'an? Was it not later that Zayd was given the responsibility to oversee the official revised version of the Qur'an? Is it not this version that has remained uniform and intact to this day, not any alleged original version that came directly from Muhammad ibn Abdullah?

 

I believe that you are taking some liberties with your own tradition here my friend which are not completely accurate.

 

Peace and God Bless.

Edited by Ignatius

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Peace,

Is it not this version that has remained uniform and intact to this day, not any alleged original version that came directly from Muhammad ibn Abdullah?

 

Quran has never been changed or manipulated.

 

See this,

One of the most common myths about the Qur’an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur’an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur’an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur’an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur’an authenticated.

 

1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur’an

 

 

Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (R.A. – Radhi Allahu Taala Anhu) – May Allah be pleased with him who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).

 

2. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired

 

 

The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.

 

Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.

 

It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.

 

3. Qur’an copied on one common material

 

 

The complete Qur’an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (r.a.), the first caliph of Islam ordered that the Qur’an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.

 

4. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur’an from the original manuscript

 

 

Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).

 

Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.

 

There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.

 

5. Diacritical marks were added for non-Arabs

 

 

The original manuscript of the Qur’an does not have the signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. These vowels are known as tashkil, zabar, zair, paish in Urdu and as fatah, damma and qasra in Arabic. The Arabs did not require the vowel signs and diacritical marks for correct pronunciation of the Qur’an since it was their mother tongue. For Muslims of non-Arab origin, however, it was difficult to recite the Qur’an correctly without the vowels. These marks were introduced into the Quranic script during the time of the fifth ‘Umayyad’ Caliph, Malik-ar-Marwan (66-86 Hijri/685-705 C.E.) and during the governorship of Al-Hajaj in Iraq.

 

Some people argue that the present copy of the Qur’an that we have along with the vowels and the diacritical marks is not the same original Qur’an that was present at the Prophet’s time. But they fail to realize that the word ‘Qur’an’ means a recitation. Therefore, the preservation of the recitation of the Qur’an is important, irrespective of whether the script is different or whether it contains vowels. If the pronunciation and the Arabic is the same, naturally, the meaning remains the same too.

 

6. Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an

 

 

Allah has promised in the Qur’an :

 

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption). [Al-Qur’an 15:9]

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I can suggest watching the debate between shaykh Ahmed Deedat and Jimmy Swaggart "Is Bible God's word":

 

Part 1 : (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-1846663296400590683&q=ahmed+deedat"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-1...&q=ahmed+deedat[/url]

 

Part 2 : (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-7336994649815000850&q=ahmed+deedat"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-7...&q=ahmed+deedat[/url]

 

Part 3 : (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-5950776057430340867&q=ahmed+deedat"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-5...&q=ahmed+deedat[/url]

 

Part 4 : (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-2243329407506487623&q=ahmed+deedat"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_video.google(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/videoplay?docid=-2...&q=ahmed+deedat[/url]

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:D Also, if you think about how Islam spread over the ages to different countries, the same Qur'an is in it's original form. It's not, like, if you take a hafiz from South Africa, The Phillipines, Syria, Russia, United States, there will be mistakes here and there. It's all uniform throughout the globe.

 

Furthermore, for the scientific or mathematic individuals, the Qur'an contains amazing mathematical consistencies by word repetitions. Here is an example of the following:

 

Day (Yawm) is repeated 365 Times

Month (Shahr) is repeated 12 Times

 

This Life (Dunya) 115 Times

Afterlife (Akhira) 115 Times

 

Charity (Zakah) 32 Times

Blessing (Barakah) 32 Times

 

Faith (Iman) 25 Times

Infedilety (Kufr) 25 Times

 

Paradise (Jannah) 77 Times

Hell (Jahannam) 77 Times

 

Say (Qul) 332 Times

They Said (Qaaluu) 332 Times

 

Man (Rajul) 23 Times

Woman (Imra'ah) 23 Times

[The human DNA contains 46 chromosomes, 23 from the father, and 23 from the mother at conception]

 

Angels (Malaa'ikah) 88 Times

Devils (Shaytaan) 88 Times

 

Cultivation (Harth) 14 Times

Agriculture (Zira'ah) 14 Times

 

Sea (Bahr) 32 Times

Land (Barr) 13 Times

32:13 is the exact ratio of water to land on Earth

 

Such concordances could not be possible by a human being!

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The 'book of God' sure seems to have many mistakes. If only Christians would face up to the 48 000 proven mistakes there are in there. Here is merely a portion of those:

 

God or the Devil?

"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number israel and Judah." [2 Samuel 24:1]

"And SATAN stood up against israel, and provoked David to number israel." [1 Chronicles 21:1]

 

What did the Lord decree, 3 years famine or 7 years famine?

"So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee?" [2 Samuel 24:13]

"So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee Either THREE YEARS' FAMINE; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee" [1 Chronicles 21:11,12]

 

How old was Jehoiachin? 8 or 18?

"Jehoiachin was EIGHT YEARS old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD." [2 Chronicles 36:9]

"Jehoiachin was EIGHTEEN YEARS old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem." [2 Kings 24:8]

 

700 or 7 000? Horsemen or footmen?

"And the Syrians fled before israel; and David slew the men of SEVEN HUNDRED CHARIOTS of the Syrians, and FORTY THOUSAND HORSEMEN, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there." [2 Samuel 10:18]

"But the Syrians fled before israel; and David slew of the Syrians SEVEN THOUSAND MEN which fought in chariots, and FORTY THOUSAND FOOTMEN, and killed Shophach the captain of the host." [1 Chronicles 19:18]

 

The difference 2 000 and 3 000 is only 50% exaggeration!

"And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained TWO THOUSAND baths." [1 Kings 7:26]

"And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held THREE THOUSAND baths." [2 Chronicles 4:5]

 

The difference between 4 thousand and 40 thousand is only 36 000!

"And Solomon had FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem." [2 Chronicles 9:25]

"And Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen." [1 Kings 4:26]

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Peace from our Lord,

Yes that men wrote both books however Quran was never changed, edited, parts taken out, parts added in from the original revelations like the current Gospel is.

Nothing of this happened in the New Testament. Where did you get this wrong information from?

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Grace and Peace be with you indeed,

 

It does appear that you draw your biblical criticism chiefly from KJV scribal errors which make your arguement appears naive in believing that the KJV translation and it's Masoretic source text is our only source of Holy Scripture.

 

Why is this?

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Peace from our Lord,

The 'book of God' sure seems to have many mistakes. If only Christians would face up to the 48 000 proven mistakes there are in there. Here is merely a portion of those:

A rather untypical portion. The typical "error" is of the kind whether the text reads "they took the body of John and buried him" or "they took the body of John and buried it". Sometimes the "errors" can't even be translated.

 

But looking into the examples of You: there are some problems with numbers in the OT. None of it has to do with a matter of faith. So the only example worth to speak about is:

 

God or the Devil?

"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number israel and Judah." [2 Samuel 24:1]

"And SATAN stood up against israel, and provoked David to number israel." [1 Chronicles 21:1]

 

The correct answer, of course, is: both. There are instances where it is made clear that sometimes God uses Satan, and surely Satan could never have been able to tempt David without God permitting this. So these two verses do not contradict, but show two different aspects of this event.

 

If you doubt this explanation, here is an example where it is said that God used even evil spirits:

 

2.Chronicles 18:19. "The LORD said, `Who will entice Ahab king of israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that.

20. "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, `I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, `How?'

21. "He said, `I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, `You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.'

ÃÞÇá ÇáÑÈ ãä íÛæí ÇÎÂÈ ãáß ÇÓÑÇÆíá ÃíÕÚà æíÓÞØ Ãí ÑÇãæÊ ÌáÚÇÃ. ÃÞÇá Ã¥ÃÇ åßÃÇ æÞÇá ÃÇß åßÃÇ. .19

Ëã ÎÑÌ ÇáÑæà ææÞà ÇãÇã ÇáÑÈ æÞÇá ÇäÇ ÇÛæíå. ÃÞÇá áå ÇáÑÈ 鋂ÃÇ. .20

ÃÞÇá ÇÎÑÌ æÇßæä áÑæà ßÃÈ Ãí ÇÃæÇå ÌãíÚ ÇäÈíÇÆå. ÃÞÇá Çäß ÊÛæíå æÊÞÊÃÑ. ÃÇÎÑÌ æÇÃÚá åßÃÇ. .21

The prophets mentioned here were the prophed engaged by king Ahab, the revelation they were deceived by an evil spirit came through the prophet Micaiah.

 

In the verses following this quotation you can compare the behavior of a true prophet to that of an deceived prophet...

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I don't think that even Christians believe that the Bible is the actual word of God but instead writings of men who were inspired by God.

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:D

 

Peace from our Lord,

 

A rather untypical portion. The typical "error" is of the kind whether the text reads "they took the body of John and buried him" or "they took the body of John and buried it". Sometimes the "errors" can't even be translated.

 

An error is an error is an error

We all know god does not make mistakes, mistakes are the property of beings which are not of devine origin. And since you even admit there are errors ( all be it small errors) in the bible, then that means that the bible is not of devine origin, or it has been altered my people who were fallible. Muslims belive in the latter.

 

 

But looking into the examples of You: there are some problems with numbers in the OT. None of it has to do with a matter of faith. So the only example worth to speak about is:

 

I belive it has everything to do with faith.

I personally would not want to worship a god who cannot even get his story right.

If you belive that the numbers were a scribal error, then think about this:

The numbers what we know of today 0,1,2,....8,9 were only invented about a thousand years ago.

When we want to say eighteen we simply put "18" or if we want to say eight we can put "8", and it is easy to see how someone can make a scribal error from 18 to 8, or 8 to 18.

This numeral system was non existent during the time of the Old and New Testament. So if some one, during the time of the Old and Testament, wanted to say eighteen, they would have to spell it out "eighteen" (during the time of the New Testament they could have used roman numerals) and if they wanted to say eight they would have to spell out "eight." now my question is how do you make a scribal mistake soo big that you changed a 8 letter word into a 5 letter word?

Either the scribes were not very good (in which case I would have much doubt about the old and new Testament) or some one purposely changed the word or god.

(also 18 is just an example I am using, what I described applies to all numbers)

 

 

The correct answer, of course, is: both. There are instances where it is made clear that sometimes God uses Satan, and surely Satan could never have been able to tempt David without God permitting this. So these two verses do not contradict, but show two different aspects of this event.

 

If you doubt this explanation, here is an example where it is said that God used even evil spirits:

 

2.Chronicles 18:19. "The LORD said, `Who will entice Ahab king of israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that.

20. "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, `I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, `How?'

21. "He said, `I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, `You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.'

ÃÞÇá ÇáÑÈ ãä íÛæí ÇÎÂÈ ãáß ÇÓÑÇÆíá ÃíÕÚà æíÓÞØ Ãí ÑÇãæÊ ÌáÚÇÃ. ÃÞÇá Ã¥ÃÇ åßÃÇ æÞÇá ÃÇß åßÃÇ. .19

Ëã ÎÑÌ ÇáÑæà ææÞà ÇãÇã ÇáÑÈ æÞÇá ÇäÇ ÇÛæíå. ÃÞÇá áå ÇáÑÈ 鋂ÃÇ. .20

ÃÞÇá ÇÎÑÌ æÇßæä áÑæà ßÃÈ Ãí ÇÃæÇå ÌãíÚ ÇäÈíÇÆå. ÃÞÇá Çäß ÊÛæíå æÊÞÊÃÑ. ÃÇÎÑÌ æÇÃÚá åßÃÇ. .21

The prophets mentioned here were the prophed engaged by king Ahab, the revelation they were deceived by an evil spirit came through the prophet Micaiah.

 

In the verses following this quotation you can compare the behavior of a true prophet to that of an deceived prophet...

 

 

If you belive that God used the Devil to do his bidding then can't we atribute all evil things to God?

So Hitler can say that it was God, through the devil, who enticed me to kill all those people.

or I can say that it was God, through the devil, who enticed me to commit all the sins that I have.

And by using that argument god cannot punish me, or Hitler for the things we have done because he was the one who caused it.

And the verse you mention has nothing to do with this.

In the verse God was talking about a specific incident, which happened at one point in time.

No where does it mention that God allows this sort of thing to happen all the time, or even some of the time.

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Doesn't the Koran say the Bible is the word of God?

 

[5.68] Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up <u>the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord</u>; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people

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Doesn't the Koran say the Bible is the word of God?

 

[5.68] Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up <u>the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord</u>; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people

 

 

Please read tafsir (commentary).

 

Extracted from: [Pooya/Ali Commentary 5:68]

(Unless the Jews and the Christians sincerely follow the Tawrat and the Injil and the Quran, their faith is of no use. If they honestly refer to their scriptures they have to accept the Holy Prophet as the promised prophet mentioned in their books (see commentary of al Baqarah: 40), even after the omissions and additions they have made in the original revealed books of Allah.

 

The Christians of the first three centuries were Unitarians, but as explained in the commentary of Ali Imran: 2 and 3, the Christian church imposed upon them the idea of trinity.

 

Ma unzila ilaykum refers to the Quran, and ma unzila ilayka refers to that which was revealed to the Holy Prophet in the preceding verse regarding the wilayah of Ali ibn abu Talib.

 

Please refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 62. )

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Can u believe that a God can say this in a book "sent by him" to show faith to his creations.

 

"Alchohol is for people who are DYING for those who are in MISERY.Let them drink and FORGET their poverty and unhappiness (from the the "Good news bible in Today's English")PROVERBS

 

and

 

"Drink no longer water,but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" I TIMOTHY 5:23

 

Still more... about

 

"The shall not enter the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation...." DEUTERONOMY 23:2

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Dont they humans who modified it had no fear to write all these :D

Isaiah 36:12 (King James Version)

But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

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Malachi 2:3

 

"Because of you I will rebuke your descendants; I will smear on your faces the dung from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with itâ€

 

Ezekiel 4:12-15 (Today's New International Version)

 

12 Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel." 13 The LORD said, "In this way the people of israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them."

14 Then I said, "Not so, Sovereign LORD! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth."

15 "Very well," he said, "I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement."

 

Judges 16:1 (Today's New International Version)

Samson and Delilah

1 One day Samson went to Gaza, where he saw a prostitute. He went in to spend the night with her.

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Peace,

And what about this,

 

I Samuel 10:18

And the Syrians fled before israel, and David slew the men of seven hundred

chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach, the

captain of their host, who died there.

I Chronicles 19:18

But the Syrians fled before israel, and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand

men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach,

the captain of their host.

Q. Seven hundred chariots or seven thousand men? Forty thousand horsemen or footmen? Shobach or Shophach?

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Peace,

And what about this,

 

The truth always wins... right tranqil

 

A disaster for them B)

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ok .... now some christian let me know about the prophet told in this verse.. whos the prophet mentioned here .. " I will raise up for them a prophet 'like you' (moses)"

 

complete verse Deutoronomy 18:18

I will raise up for them a prophet like you (moses) from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

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