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Sur Baher: Jewish woman who converted to Islam assassinated

Posted on Saturday, January 14 [at] Egypt Standard Time

 

Source: www.ynet.co.il

 

September 28, 2005

 

By: Efrat Weiss

 

A murder in the village: Earlier this evening in the village of Sur Baher the body of a woman was found. There were signs of struggle. The woman—a Jew who converted to Islam—was stabbed to death.

 

Jerusalem police were informed that a woman’s body had been found in the village. Police forces were called to the scene of the crime, and the investigation began. The preliminary examination found that the victim was a 22-year-old Jewish woman who had converted to Islam and was living in the village.

 

The woman was stabbed to death with a knife and was found by the neighbors, who called her boyfriend; he was not in the village at the time. The couple had three children together. Their ten-month-old infant was with his mother at the time of the incident, but he was not harmed.

 

The police have taken the boyfriend and four others into custody for questioning. The body was taken in for an autopsy at the forensics center in Abu Kabir.

 

Reader responses to the article

 

Whoever said that stupidity doesn’t kill? Maybe this is a warning to all those Jewish women going out with Arabs who don’t realize the danger involved—The critic.

 

This is what happens to everyone who abandons their religion—Shai, Arad.

 

Couldn’t she find any other way than to convert to Islam? And join that abominable people who only praise blood and violence?—Yuval, Jerusalem.

 

That traitor does not deserve sympathy. She deserved it—Yossi M.

 

For a woman to convert to Islam is the strangest thing on earth. Any woman who is not born a Muslim should thank God day and night, because Muslim women were only created to give birth and bear humiliation at best, and, at worst, to die in defense of family honor—Anonymous.

 

She deserved it! Why are we hiding behind sweetened words? If only everyone who was like Tali Fahima would die with or without their murderous lovers. They don’t deserve any sympathy—A secularist.

 

She deserves what happened to her, the traitor!—Or.

 

They kill women, shoot children, and blow up planes. What a horrible religion is that thing they call Islam. It has given the modern world nothing but cries of “Allahu Akbar!†the murder of women for the sake of family honor (they alone think themselves honorable), the circumcision of women so they cannot reach puberty, useless, never-ending, terrorist attacks, the murder of millions, the murder of innocent women and children, and dictatorships in their countries. They cry for everyone to show compassion, but destroy statues in Afghanistan that predate Islam by thousands of years without even batting an eye. They are also responsible for all the national problems in the world (even southern Thailand is now demanding independence). Everyone goes about without any security. They are primitive, have no self-confidence and need to live in dignity. The whole world is moving forward, and the Muslims are moving backwards. They just want more land, and when they have it they just move around on donkeys gathering junk. If they didn’t have oil no one would even get within a meter of them. What can they give the world? Hummus?—Anonymous.

 

 

Those who convert to Islam are traitors. We should not confuse the enemy with the victim—Anonymous.

 

Whoever said that stupidity doesn’t kill? Maybe this is a warning to all those Jewish women going out with Arabs who don’t realize the danger involved—The critic.

 

 

Enraged and impotent Jewish males murder in jealous rage

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PropellerAds

The mind of the jewish - supportive of zionism is indeed disturbing and sick to the core.

 

May Allah accept our sister amongst the shuhadah in jannah al firdose , Ameen

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"Enraged and impotent Jewish males murder in jealous rage "

 

"The mind of the jewish - supportive of zionism is indeed disturbing and sick to the core."

 

Change jewish to muslim and zionist to terrorists, ppl that think that way are called Islamaphobes, so wat are u?

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The mind of the jewish - supportive of zionism is indeed disturbing and sick to the core.

 

May Allah accept our sister amongst the shuhadah in jannah al firdose , Ameen

 

Assalam Alaikum

 

May Allah Accept her as Shaheed..

 

Jazaak Allah Khair for sharing..

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May Allah forgive her sins and admit her to paradise..

 

 

But we must forget there are also cases where muslims who convert to another religion ar ebeing killed so lets not be hypocritical here.

 

Peace!

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In Indonesia, there is one or two celebrities who convert to Christianity and they are not killed.

 

People here do not even care with their choice (maybe in their heart they do regret it, but not a single action taken against her).

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:D

 

:D :) May Allah :D grant her a place in jannah tul Firdaus :D

 

:D

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In Indonesia, there is one or two celebrities who convert to Christianity and they are not killed.

 

People here do not even care with their choice (maybe in their heart they do regret it, but not a single action taken against her).

 

We all Know that is the exception rather than the rule especially in "Islamic" countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and others. If you change from Islam to another religion there, you have a pretty good chance to be killed.

 

Now on the topic at hand, I again express my condoleances that this innocent woman was killed just for changing her religion.

In This Day and age, it's ridiculous someone should be killed for changing his religion.

 

Peace

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We all Know that is the exception rather than the rule especially in "Islamic" countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and others. If you change from Islam to another religion there, you have a pretty good chance to be killed.

 

Peace

 

Assalamu'alaykum. I beg to disagree that this is the rule in Iran, Saudi Arabia or anywhere in the Muslim world for that matter. Over the last decades there has only been a few cases that someone was executed for changing his religion.

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Yes, thank god.

 

But the problem is most scholars agree with killing of apostates which is a serious issue.

 

I hope these killings stop. Peace

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Yes, thank god.

 

But the problem is most scholars agree with killing of apostates which is a serious issue.

 

I hope these killings stop. Peace

 

 

it really hurt. Allah bless her and let our enemy disgraced in this world and the hereafter inshAllah

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The punishment for apostacy is death in Islam. The punishment is orchastrated through shariah courts with all due process, and is not carried out through vigalante justice.

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The punishment for apostacy is death in Islam. The punishment is orchastrated through shariah courts with all due process, and is not carried out through vigalante justice.

 

 

No, I completly disagree. It's totally barbaric and Hotly debated, there are scholars who agree and those who disagree.

My opinion on the apostasy issue is perfectly described in the second to last post in this thread:

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30003&pid=311875&st=20entry311875"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...20entry311875[/url]

 

It's totally hypocritical to criticise other religions which might kill apostates, while at the same time support killing people who change their religion from YOURS to another one.

 

 

Peace out!

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No, I completly disagree. It's totally barbaric and Hotly debated, there are scholars who agree and those who disagree.

My opinion on the apostasy issue is perfectly described in the second to last post in this thread:

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=30003&pid=311875&st=20entry311875"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.gawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...20entry311875[/url]

 

It's totally hypocritical to criticise other religions which might kill apostates, while at the same time support killing people who change their religion from YOURS to another one.

Peace out!

 

:D

 

Abdul Majid is correct Anthony, remember, Islam doesn't change to conform with the times.

 

Some might say that killing apostates is only if the join in an army and fight the Muslims:

 

Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What

is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and

then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down

unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle.†(Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Chapter 12, Number 271, p. 201)

 

The apostate is clearly just sitting down with the companion, and not fighting at all, so that so called "theory" goes out the window.

 

:D

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if you would have read the second to last post in the link I showed, you would be more clear as to why I totally disagree with the apostasy laws as interpreted by some scholars

 

If you dont, that's your choice and I respect it

 

Peace

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:D

if you would have read the second to last post in the link I showed, you would be more clear as to why I totally disagree with the apostasy laws as interpreted by some scholars

 

If you dont, that's your choice and I respect it

By you saying you reject this, you are rejecting Authentic Hadith and Shari'a laws, and to reject authentic Hadith and to reject Shari'a laws, is pure Kufr dear Brother. So please be careful what you want to reject. Islam is not based on our own interpretations or based on our own emotions. :D.

 

---------------------

 

Visit my new Islamic Site:

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamic-faith(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Introduction.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.islamic-faith(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Introduction.html[/url]

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Thats not what I am saying. I AM saying however that I disagree with the general scholar consensus , as this article explains it well.

 

 

The following article may also cast some further light on the issue of apostacy:

 

Apostasy & Islam: Through the eyes of A Former Apostate by T.O. Shanavas, the author of the book, CREATION AND/OR EVOLUTION An Islamic Perspective (ISBN 1-4134-6581-1)

 

A Few years ago, during question-answer session in the Islamic Center of Greater Center, a member inquired about the punishment for apostasy in Islam. It is an unfortunate common belief among many Muslims that Shariah prescribes death for the apostate!!!

 

I was once an apostate and openly declared I did not believe in Islam and rejected even the existence of God. Thank God! I was then living in a country, India, where people did not execute apostates. I thank God for giving me a chance to repent and return to the fold of Islam. I, being an apostate once, became free from the cultural and ethnic Islam to study true Islam with an open mind. "Islamic scholars" and imams do not anymore control my mind and beliefs unless their decrees (fatawa) are (1) in conformity with the Qur'an, (2) the hadiths that they quote do not contradict the Qur'an.

 

Many Muslims today practice an ironic form of idolatry (in Islamic terminology, shirk, the one sin Allah does not forgive). We, Muslims, criticize other religions for not being truly monotheistic, yet so many of us are guilty of another, more subtle form of shirk: we worship our scholars instead of Allah! We commit the sin for which other people are condemned by God in the Qur'an:

 

"They have taken as lords besides Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only one God. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner unto Him!†[9:31]

 

Now, most classical commentators of the Qur'an agree that the grave transgression alluded to here is not the literal worship of the learned people. According to Tirmidhi, the Holy Prophet was asked to explain this verse by Adi ibn Hatim, a convert (or apostate) from Christianity, and he confirmed that the sin was the people, "considering lawful what their priest declared lawful, even though it was forbidden by Allah." (Al-Jami, 44:9;IJ).

 

I believe that many Muslims are reluctant to speak up because many "Islamic" cultures today encourage docility and teach to unquestioningly accept the decisions of "qualified" scholars. This is a new phenomenon; in the time of Muhammad (s), ideas were only supported after they had been proven to be in harmony with the Qur'an. Scholars could not just pull rank, as they were expected to be able to argue their cases. In fact, in a famous incident of Islamic history, a humble woman of Medina publicly corrected the Caliph. One day, Hazrat Umar (RA) was announcing a change in the rule mahr, when the woman in the crowd suddenly stopped him in his track by loudly quoting a verse of the Qur'an which contradicted his proposal. He had to relent, saying, "The women of Medina know the Qur'an better than Umar." So, it is time for Muslims to question the imams and scholars if they deviate from the Qur'an and hadiths that do not contradict the Qur'an. We must not only be satisfied by the answer of the scholars, but we must verify the source of their references. Remember, if Hazrath Umar (RA) can make a mistake, ordinary scholars and ordinary people like us also can make greater mistakes.

 

The Qur'an and the sayings of the Prophet (s) require Muslims to think critically. Pagans are repeatedly berated for not questioning, for not using reason, even being compared to dumb animals on several occasions!

 

"When it is said unto them: 'Follow that which Allah has revealed:' they say: 'Nay! We shall follow the ways of our fathers.' What! Even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?....Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense.†[2:170-171]

 

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the

Book.....†[3:7]

 

"Will they not then ponder on the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found herein much incongruity.†[4:83]

 

So, the principle established here is that (1) Muslims are required to think critically and not blindly accept the authority of their scholars, and (2) that the clear message of the Qur'an is to be preferred to any isolated law interpretation which contradicts the Qur'an's clear spirit.

 

The Qur'an teaches that human beings are individually responsible. So, I believe that Allah would not forgive my sins on the Day of Judgment even if my sins were the result of following the advice of a certain Imam. I would not be able to hide behind any Imam or behind his fatwa even if coming from the most respected and revered Imam of any time.

 

Therefore, views expressed here are my opinions based on the references given. I do not claim to be a scholar, but there are sometimes cases where the violation of the Qur'an is so self-evident that all Muslims can see them.

 

I believe that inhuman law of apostasy has nothing to do with Islam of the Prophet (s) and it is an interpolation into Islam by fanatics among us and the selfish rulers. There are many reasons for me to believe that execution for apostasy is a manufactured law rather than divine law.

 

Holy Prophet (s) spent his entire life fighting in defense of fundamental human rights that everybody should be free to choose his religion; no one must be physically forced to change religion. Prophet (s) struggled with the Meccan establishment to have the freedom to invite non-believers to Islam. This was consistent with the practices of all other Prophets.

 

The Qur'an states:

 

"...There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is here forth distinct from error...â€[2:256]

 

In the light of the above verse, a person has to be insane to belief that Islam prescribes execution for apostasy.

 

The Qur'an further states:

 

" Say (Muhammad) it is the truth from the Lord of all. Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, LET him disbelieve.†[18:29]

 

In no uncertain terms, Allah commands Prophet to allow people to believe and disbelieve. If the Shariah recommends to kill an apostate, this law cannot be Islamic because it contradicts the above two verses.

 

The Qur'an further states:

 

"And so, O Prophet, exhort them, thy task is ONLY to exhort; thou canst NOT compel them to believe.†[88:21-22]

 

"Thy duty is to make the message reach them; it is OUR PART to call them to account." [13:40]

 

"Call thou (all mankind) unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in MOST KINDLY MANNER...†[16:125]

 

While the Qur'an commands the Prophet (s) not to compel people to believe in Islam and invite people with the most kind manner and words, fanatics among us threaten people with death mercilessly to keep them in the Muslim Ummah as hypocrites as if the dishonest hypocrites are better than honest apostates. It is a most heinous crime against Islam and Prophet (s) to manufacture inhuman law of execution of apostate. If the Qur'anic verses tell the Prophet not to compel people to believe in Islam (88:22) and the responsibility to call disbelievers to account rests with God only (1:40), the law of execution of apostates is of human origin.

 

Initial reluctance of the people of Arabia to accept Islam disturbed Prophet (s). Then the following verse was revealed:

 

"And had your Lord willed, whoever in the earth would have believed all together, will you then coerce people to become believers?†[10:99]

 

According to the above verse, even God will not coerce people to become Muslims or remain as Muslim once a person accepts Islam. So, Muslims must condemn the law of apostasy and save innocent Muslims becoming intolerant and violent by the henious indoctrination by fanatics among us because Allah says:

 

"Who can be more wicked than the one who invent a lie against God,...†[6:93]

 

So, religious belief is a personal matter. It is God alone -- not the state or religious authorities -- who know what is in the heart of the people. If the highest human authority, Prophet (s), cannot call anyone to account for belief or disbelief, no sane person can believe that religious scholars and the state have the authority to execute people for their personal belief.

 

The Qur'an states:

 

"A section of the People of the Book say: 'Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, Bur reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back." [3:72]

 

A section of People of the Book used a tactic to create doubt among the Muslims in the hope that some of them might thereby be beguiled into repudiating Islam. How could it be possible for non-Muslims to have enacted this plan to entice Muslims to believe one day and reject next, if death was the penalty for apostasy? This tactic of a group of People of the Book mentioned in the Qur’an exposes apostasy law of the Muslim fanatics as un-Islamic. In spite of the deceptive behavior, the above verse cautions Muslims that “perchance they may themselves turn back†truly to Islam. The Qur’an does not rule to kill the apostates.

 

Abdullah b.Ubayy b.Salul was the leader of the munafiqun (hypocrites). But Prophet (s) took no action against him. Prophet (s) prayed for him and stayed at the grave until he was buried. Those fanatics among us must explain the reason for Prophet (s) not executing the known hypocrites like Abdullah b.Ubayy. Ubbay lived until death plotting to destroy Islam and Prophet (s) knew it. He was not executed for apostasy. This suggests that apostasy law is not a divine law but interpolation by fanatics among us.

 

Another verse states:

 

"Those who believe, then reject Faith, then believe (again) and again reject Faith, go on increasing in Unbelief -- God will not forgive them nor guide them on the Way.†[4:137]

 

An apostate cannot enjoy the repeated luxury of believing and disbelieving if punishment is death. A dead man has no further chance of again believing and disbelieving. Furthermore, if taken at face value, this verse indicates that God will only withdraw His guidance after repeated rejections. It does not tell Prophet (s) to kill these apostates. So, what right do these religious authorities and imams have to deprive a person of access to the divine guidance after the first?

 

The Qur'an states:

 

"How shall God guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the apostle was true and that clear signs had come unto them? But God guides not a people unjust. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of the God, of His Angels, and of all mankind; -- In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be their lot; -- except for those that repent (even) after that, make amends; For verily God is oft-forgiving, most merciful.†[3:86-89]

 

It is obvious from these verses that no punishment is to be inflicted by one man or another for apostasy. By no stretch of the imagination can the phrase, "curse of Allah," be interpreted to be a license to murder anyone who he considers to be an apostate. If any such commandment was prescribed it would have been clearly defined as all other punishments are in the Holy Qur'an.

 

The fact is that the Qur'an even mentions that apostates can be forgiven if they amend and repent. How could they repent if apostates are killed? By forced repentance? Then, does not Qur'an state that there is no compulsion in religion? The one verse that states that there is no compulsion in religion should be enough for a fair minded person to realize that Islam does not teach death to apostates.

 

Finally, can any one hadith suggesting to kill the apostate invalidate all the Qur'anic verses quoted earlier? We, Muslims, blame the West for anti-Muslim reporting. What do you expect from the West if we provide the sticks to beat us up? Will Muslims object the persecution of the new Muslim convert for his/her apostasy by his/her erstwhile co-religionists? If we believe that it is injustice to kill a new Muslim by non-Muslims for his/her apostasy from his/her former faith, you must give the same just treatment to Muslims who become Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc. Let Allah call to account those people who left Islam.

 

I, like many Muslims, am still bitter over smear jobs done on my religion by Western media over the Gulf war, and the Rushdie affair. So, the last thing that I want is to see Islam slandered all over again because of the barbaric and un-Islamic apostasy law. Ask yourselves: what kind of religion kills people for simple choice of faith, a change of heart? Not a religion of love and peace, not a religion worthy of respect! Perpetuation of the law to kill apostates can only increase or create doubts in the heart of the Muslims and potential Muslims, as people everywhere are already bombarded by negative images of Islam.

 

My message to those Muslims who, like me, yearn to project true compassionate face of Islam is that Dawa will never be successful in the West as long as crazy nonsense of law of apostasy is unchallenged by Muslims. If Muhammed Ali, Cat Stevens, and Murad Hoffman were harassed by a reactionary Christian group, the Muslims will be up in arms! We must be consistent in our attitude and compassionate to those

Muslims who want to leave Muslim community.

 

"Believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil....†[9:71]

 

Therefore, let us protect the rights of all people to have freedom to believe and disbelieve. In closing, Islam is only vulnerable when Muslims abandon its clear teaching of reason, religious freedom, tolerance, and peace.

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To force someone to remain in a faith they do not believe seems rather absurd as it negates the whole basis of sincere belief and seems closer to officially endorsing hypocrisy.

 

There is a famous remark attributed to the 19th century Egyptian Muslim activist and scholar Muhammad Abduh who visited various European countries and said 'I have been to many Muslim countries and found many Muslims there, but little Islam. I have also been to some European countries and found few Muslims there, but a lot of Islam'.
Edited by anthony19832005

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:D

 

Anthony, why did the Prophet :D then organize a mission to liquidate a man named Aswad who calimed to be a Prophet and then named himself "Rahman (undoubtably Apostasy)? (:D)"

 

Why Anthony, did Abu Bakr, the Prophets closest Companion, undoubtably more knowledgable then this man, who wrote the article (which I read), send Armies against the tribes that denied Zakat (which is Apostasy) because the Prophet :) was dead, and the ones that claimed to be prophets (which is apostasy)?

 

Anthony, we know where the Companions stood on this, where the scholars stand on this, so why are you against it?

 

:D

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Peace

 

Because in this day and age, Islam is not just a few thousand souls, and leaving the muslims now does not mean treason (like it did back in the day).

 

Whatever the prophet did was good and Allah knows best, but now the ummah is 1 billion+ strong why do we need to murder people who decide to convert to something else?

 

And here's another reason why I dont support this (besides the motives shown in that great article and by scholars such as Tariq ramadan).

 

I dont support this mostly because a lot of people are Born into a muslim family, and made to blindly follow the faith, and when some of them are old enough they realize they never really believed in Islam and it was just something they did because their parents forced them to, in this case it would be UNTHINKABLE to kill them when they never even had Islam in their heart. Do you understand?

 

peace

Edited by anthony19832005

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and ANOTHER reason I dont support this is because if I would have been born into a society which DID NOT ALLOW ME TO FREELY CHOOSE which religion (if any) I wish to follow, I would have never found Islam.

 

The prophet's sunnah regarding apostasy I believe (as do many others) was in response to the large number of "fake" muslims who joined then left the religion of Allah in order to create confusion in the hearts of true muslims AND because back then leaving the Ummah was just like state treason.

 

Clearly, using your god given brains you can realize that is not the case in modern times. Peace!

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Anthony, you seem to be on the end of a losing battle?

 

The Quran, Hadith, Sharia must all be followed absolutely in Islam ne?

 

I believe you are not suited for religion in general *just my thoughts*

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I dont think I am suited to organized religion, but I believe I am perfectly suited for personal religion.

 

Religion to me is something inside, not something that can be forced on people.

 

Anyways, I don't think I am on a loosing battle. I have presented clear arguments as to where I stand, and my morality and god given intellect will not allow me to change this view about this particular issue.

 

It is my belief, and that of scholars such as Tariq Ramadan, that Modern Islam needs to apply the concept of itjihad, and redefine shariah to create Islamic solutions to 21st century problems, we can't keep blindly following scholar interpretations of solutions to problems in 7th century tribal pre-islamic Arabia. The world has changed, and we need to change too. Literalists and extremists forget how dynamic Islam is and how revolutionary and how adaptable to every circumstance this great religion is, and instead literalists prefer a inflexible, fossilized, unchangeable form of Islam, undoubtebly supported by the wahabbis in Saudi Arabia.

 

Peace

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So you are saying the Quran, Hadith, Shariah etc must be modified? As if it was never perfect in the first place?

Edited by 3dshocker

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No, as I've said before, its muslims who are the problem. Literalistic interpretations of Islam have rendered it inflexible and seemingly archaic.

 

Islam needs to be re-examined and new solutions have to be conceived to deal with modern issues. (look into "itjihad")

 

Let me explain to you: A lot of the hadiths were specific fixes for specific problems in a specific day and age. What scholars need to do, through a process called itjihad, is re-evalue the old scholar's rulings which have become the shariah, and leave aside old interpretations of the Qur'an and Sunnah which had their uses in their day and age but now they're outdated.

 

This is the problem, even with a lot of muslims today, they have forgot the process of itjihad and the fact that Islam is built to adapt to specific circumstances and provide new answers to modern problems.

Edited by anthony19832005

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