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peaceful_sis

Young Successful Muslim Men

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Dear brothers and sisters,

 

I was recently having a discussion with some of my female friends - and asking ourselves why, when most muslim men become successful they go with non-muslim women. Is this because men can marry women who are christian, jewish ..etc?

This is merely an observation, so pls do not judge us if we are incorrect and facts suggest otherwise.

 

I have also noted this in my university where the muslim guys in their 20's socialise with non-muslim friends and thus like themselves get girlfriends. I am studying medicine and my friends and I have come to the conclusion that finding a young muslim doctor who lives in these times and is like-minded will be near impossible (unless they are of pakistan, indian...etc origin - in which case they too will be wanting to get an arranged marriage or perhaps marry a girl of the same origin).

 

Please do not assume that I am narrow-minded or pessimistic. Its just that me and my friends (some of whom are reverts and would love to know revert doctors out there if there are any) are finding it hard to come across men of such qualities.

 

 

Are we correct to have such thinking? please share your thoughts.

 

Salaama Alaykum

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PropellerAds

in this day and age they cannot go off and marry non muslims especiallly when there are good muslim women around

christians and jews were different in the prophets time

salaam

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why, when most muslim men become successful they go with non-muslim women.
What do you mean successful? In terms of (in your case) studying medicine and then becoming a doctor and having a good job?

 

Well tell you what this is my observation about muslim girls from my own experiences at both universities i've attended and at work now: Muslim girls are too shy to come and talk to men. Its probably the haram/halal non mahrem bit in there but i'm not blaming them or anything just saying that muslim girls dont usually socialize with muslim guys. And when muslim guys try to get their attention, they play hard to get as if (stuck up or whatever reason)..

 

The second point, most non muslim women are not shy to talk to men. They are open and friendly and not necessarily inviting for intimacy but just talkative and "normal". Lets just say for an example while going through engineering school (for myself) you study with guys and girls (non muslims) and you get to know them over the course of 4-5 years and you know them outside of the books and you realize they are not that different from you and I save for the Islam bit.. one thing could lead to another and next thing you know marriage is in works! something like that..

 

Is this because muslim men can marry women who are christian, jewish ..etc?
No thats not the reason.

 

I have also noted this in my university where the muslim guys in their 20's socialise with non-muslim friends and thus like themselves get girlfriends.
Let me just say what do you expect the guys to do when the muslim girls dont wish to socialize?? I understand the deeni bit here however.. thats a big reason and secondly (i'm not saying everyone does this but) some young muslim guys just want to party it up, have a good time in school, do whatever because they know once they get out of school their parents will get them married off to a muslim girl and they have to live proper muslim lives.. a bit twisted i know but :D !

 

I am studying medicine and my friends and I have come to the conclusion that finding a young muslim doctor who lives in these times and is like-minded will be near impossible (unless they are of pakistan, indian...etc origin - in which case they too will be wanting to get an arranged marriage or perhaps marry a girl of the same origin).
You need to work on your skills here hahaha..

 

:D

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in this day and age they cannot go off and marry non muslims especiallly when there are good muslim women around

christians and jews were different in the prophets time

salaam

 

:D

 

There is no difference between the Jews and Christians then and now. Those who have stopped believing and following are in name only, but those who practice, arethe same.

 

But, I agree that a Muslim man should prefer a Muslimah, as the first criteria for marriage is the religious inclinations of the girl.

 

Wassalam

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Dear br. hasib

 

First of all judging from your comments and the excuses you make you come across as those men I talk about.

 

 

What do you mean successful? In terms of (in your case) studying medicine and then becoming a doctor and having a good job?

 

Success can be interpreted in so many ways - success in deen, in life, job ...etc. However, in the context I've used it in I am referring to those who hold a professional job (not necessarily medicine but law, accountancy, engineer...etc). Surely even those simple minded amongst us can get the drift.

 

 

and having a good job?

 

Surely having a good job is one of the requirements in marriage as the man should be able to provide for his wife.

 

 

Well tell you what this is my observation about muslim girls from my own experiences at both universities i've attended and at work now: Muslim girls are too shy to come and talk to men. Its probably the haram/halal non mahrem bit in there but i'm not blaming them or anything just saying that muslim girls dont usually socialize with muslim guys. And when muslim guys try to get their attention, they play hard to get as if (stuck up or whatever reason)..

 

So brother, if you are not blaming us are you blaming the deeen and what Allah has ordered us to do?

Perhaps you are also confusing our shyness for 'stuck up' behaviour and comparing us to the kufar women who readily invite you for prohibited acts. I too have grown up here brother and have mixed in with the opposite sex more than I should have Islamically speaking, and to say we are less talkative then the kufars is nonsense. I have found in fact from personal experience that since putting on my hijab brother and all men hesitate to speak to me for the fear that I wouldnt eventually give them what they want. This, my sisters is what Allah is protecting us from.

 

 

The second point, most non muslim women are not shy to talk to men. They are open and friendly and not necessarily inviting for intimacy but just talkative and "normal". Lets just say for an example while going through engineering school (for myself) you study with guys and girls (non muslims) and you get to know them over the course of 4-5 years and you know them outside of the books and you realize they are not that different from you and I save for the Islam bit.. one thing could lead to another and next thing you know marriage is in works! something like that..

 

As for not socialising and mixing, isn't that what Allah has prohibited for the exact reasons you've mentioned above that it'll lead to flirting followed by haram acts which are seen as normal in this society.

 

 

(i'm not saying everyone does this but) some young muslim guys just want to party it up, have a good time in school, do whatever because they know once they get out of school their parents will get them married off to a muslim girl and they have to live proper muslim lives.. a bit twisted i know but :D !

 

If that is the case, then in fact alhamdullilah that Allah turned these men away from us for they would find it difficult to care for a muslim women and maintain an Islamic household. Surely Islam is not only reserved for when your parents marry you off in an arranged marriage but should be practised at all times.

 

 

You need to work on your skills here hahaha..

 

:D

 

 

As for working on my skills, at first I thought of not responding to this particular remark but because of you ignorant comments throughout your post I felt obliged to let you know that we as muslim sisters have plenty up our sleeves and unfortunately for brothers like youserlves that is something you'll never get to expereince as its reserved only for our pious husbands.

 

 

Salaam Alaykum

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Peace.

 

Sis, you will not like my response but here it is and Im sticking to my opinion and I regard it as correct. remember...the truth hurts.

 

 

I have many arab(muslim) friends especially when I lived in Canada. The sad fact of life(in my experience) is that 100% of them prefer to have non-muslim girlfriends and have sex with them and "party up" so to speak and live their life....but when they marry they want to marry a virgin muslim girl . The truth hurts, it's a sad sad fact but it's true, I know some people are going to probably give me hateful replies but this is a horrendous double standard in regards to males and females.

 

From my experience most young muslim men like to have pre-marital sex and then only marry a virgin girl because they don't want to marry a "western whore". its pathetic.

 

Peace

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br anthony,

 

I agree with you as this being the sad fact of life - but unlike br. Hasib you are not making excuses for these men and then pretending they are good muslims. In fact br. Hasib should be ashamed of himself for putting the blame on the muslim sisters who are striving to practice Islam in its true nature.

 

I appreciate your comments br. anthony and completely agree with what you've said. I would like to know why you think that is and where do these men who wish to find ' virgin muslim women' go to?

 

And also are there any muslim men who do not fit this category and who have grown up with these difficulties in this western society - and if so how did they cope? ? B)

 

Salaam

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I'd thought I'd post this again as I had a problem with the quotes before.

 

 

 

Dear br. hasib

 

First of all judging from your comments and the excuses you make you come across as those men I talk about.

 

Success can be interpreted in so many ways - success in deen, in life, job ...etc. However, in the context I've used it in I am referring to those who hold a professional job (not necessarily medicine but law, accountancy, engineer...etc). Surely even those simple minded amongst us can get the drift.

 

Surely having a good job is one of the requirements in marriage as the man should be able to provide for his wife.

 

 

So brother, if you are not blaming us are you blaming the deeen and what Allah has ordered us to do?

Perhaps you are also confusing our shyness for 'stuck up' behaviour and comparing us to the kufar women who readily invite you for prohibited acts. I too have grown up here brother and have mixed in with the opposite sex more than I should have Islamically speaking, and to say we are less talkative then the kufars is nonsense. I have found in fact from personal experience that since putting on my hijab the brothers and in fact all men hesitate to speak to me for the fear that I wouldnt eventually give them what they want. This, my sisters is what Allah is protecting us from.

 

 

As for not socialising and mixing, isn't that what Allah has prohibited for the exact reasons you've mentioned above that it'll lead to flirting followed by haram acts which are seen as normal in this society.

 

If that is the case, then in fact alhamdullilah that Allah turned these men away from us for they would find it difficult to care for a muslim women and maintain an Islamic household. Surely Islam is not only reserved for when your parents marry you off in an arranged marriage but should be practised at all times.

 

 

As for working on my skills, at first I thought of not responding to this particular remark but because of you ignorant comments throughout your post I felt obliged to let you know that we as muslim sisters have plenty up our sleeves and unfortunately for brothers like youserlves that is something you'll never get to expereince as its reserved only for our pious husbands.

 

 

Salaam Alaykum

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peace.

 

 

Making excuses is a very popular trend for most muslims these days. Instead of confronting the issues full on, most people prefer to downplay the problems and "sweep them under the rug"

 

This male superiority double standard has to STOP!.

 

However don;t get me wrong, Im not a hypocrite...im not perfect either, I do bad things....but we as muslims should aknowledge and accept the fact that we commit bad deeds, and we should not make excuses for ourselves.

 

This is a blatand double-standard and it is not proper for a muslim to deny that this is the men's fault. It's not the women's fault for being pious muslimahs.

 

Peace

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I appreciate your comments br. anthony and completely agree with what you've said. I would like to know why you think that is and where do these men who wish to find ' virgin muslim women' go to?

 

Why do I think this is happening? Because we as muslim men are not "lowering our gaze". We are a bit hypocritical because we expect muslim women to wear Hijab and be chaste and pious and obedient, but we do not fulfill our half of the agreement. This must be both ways, men cannot just expect muslim women to be chaste while we go around and indulge in zina and chasing after the riches of this world, chasing women who will give us prohibited pleasures that satisfy our lowest nafs.

 

where do these men who wish to find ' virgin muslim women' go to?

 

In my experience to arab friends, they say that when they marry they want a good muslim girl from the middle east because they thought that women there are mostly virgins before they get married and would be good for wives (although most of the muslim arab men I knew were definately NOT virgins)

 

Ok I would just like to state the fact that I might just win the prize for the least pious muslim man around....so please don't think Im criticising just others. This is a problem I suffer from aswell.....it's a matter of faith....or lack thereof.

 

 

Peace

Edited by anthony19832005

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I have many arab(muslim) friends especially when I lived in Canada. The sad fact of life(in my experience) is that 100% of them prefer to have non-muslim girlfriends and have sex with them and "party up" so to speak and live their life....but when they marry they want to marry a virgin muslim girl . The truth hurts, it's a sad sad fact but it's true, I know some people are going to probably give me hateful replies but this is a horrendous double standard in regards to males and females.

 

From my experience most young muslim men like to have pre-marital sex and then only marry a virgin girl because they don't want to marry a "western whore". its pathetic.

 

Salaam,

 

id love to disagree but sadly your right! most of my muslim mates will not think twice before having sex with anyone yet they expect a girl to marry who is a virgin and also many of them want one from pakistan...

 

me personally used to be made to look like a fool in school because i admited i was a virgin... i even reminded the guys that we are muslims not only by name but nature too but this fell on deaf ears...

 

i tried to get married in pakistan but couldnt find anyone of my prefency, well thats a lie becausde there was one but she was too keen to come to britain... decent so i thought id try the uk as most girls know the score about what is where and how to do things, i wasnt too fused about whether she was a virgin or not as long as she dont mess me about... and mashallh so far no complaints

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Salamu Alaykum

 

I think this is a very interesting discussion and one I have noticed as well, especially amongst men who have professional jobs. So what are muslim women like us to do to find a professional muslim man in our work environment, school or wherever.

 

Why is that they go to after work drinks, have girlfriends and so on?

 

Although we have chosen to be good muslims I agree with peace-sis, wearing the hijab makes it incredibly hard for us to mix in with the non-kufars as easily as the men do. But of course that is the intention isn't.

 

I know it sounds childish but isn't just frustrating that they can get away with it and we cant. :D :D

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Why is that they go to after work drinks, have girlfriends and so on?

 

I believe there was a hadith which said something like " The biggest test of my Ummah will be how they handle wealth" . I believe that the more successful and rich one is in life, the less he relies on God, and instead FOrgets that God is the reason for his wealth and it's just a test so God can see who can still remain pious and god-fearing even when he is rich.

 

 

So what are muslim women like us to do to find a professional muslim man in our work environment, school or wherever.

 

Well im not Dr. Phil (lol) but I'll give you my opinion. Poor people seem to me to be more religious and overall better muslims/people. They are not attracted by the trappings of the life of this world such as pre-marital sex and expensive cars and being greedy etc. So....you might want to try finding a "poorer" man lol.

 

peace

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Is this where I should probably ask you if you are single brother anthony? lol :D

 

I agree with you brother we should lower our expectations I guess.

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pls dont misunderstand me - I am not suggesting you are poor. I trying to complement you on your manner and thoughtfulness.

 

Salamu alaykum :D

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I try to be as honest as I can....thats about the only good thing I can complement "myself" on lol....but I said it before...you would have a tough time to find a less pious muslim man than I am. I am very corrupted by the depravity and the "fake trappings of this world" so I am not one to judge people.

 

 

I am merely saying that We should be honest with ourselves and admit to our mistakes and address them without shame or hypocrisy.

 

Peace

Edited by anthony19832005

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:D

 

Interesting topic I must say. Now I wish to add my two cents to it...

 

First off sister peaceful_sis I understand the point about having a husband who can support for you...but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have to be in a certain profession. Men who own their own business are also able to provide for their wives but on the flipside it depends on what you consider spending on your wife. What I mean by that is some sisters are happy with the basics and a little more while others wish to live a little more luxuriously.

 

Why do the reverts have to be looking for revert doctors? Why can't they be revert brothers?

 

When people are in med or pharmacy or dental school in their 20's and living in countries filled with fitnah and their parents won't let them get married. It's gotta be rough. I'm not making excuses for the people who commit zina because they have to answer for themselves but I think their parents should be more understanding and the kids themselves should be more responsible to find a way to get married and maybe do a joint system of working and studying. It might take a little longer to finish up but way better than falling into haraam.

 

One thing I don't get...you said people of Indo/Pak origin will want to get an arranged marriage or marry someone of their own origin. While their parents do add a lot of baggage to their marriage situation I wouldn't say that is the case.

 

Don't take this the wrong way but my observation is that when many men become doctors they think that they are invincible and on top of the world and maybe that has something to do with their train of thought in looking for non-muslim women.

 

I know the scholars don't recommend marrying a non-muslim though and for obvious reasons.

 

Sister just keep up your duty towards Allah :D and be among the patient ones and :D you will find the right person.

 

To give you an example, my friend is a revert and is doing his residency and he got engaged a couple of weeks ago to a sister in law school.

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peace

 

my friend is a revert and is doing his residency and he got engaged a couple of weeks ago to a sister in law school.

 

COngrats to them both......but I dont mean to be rude.....but what does "engaged" mean? I think this is NOT allowed by Islam.......they are alone together and probably have sex in this "engagement" period before they get married right? if so then its definately haraam.

 

But I wish them Happiness and a great marriage!!

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peace

COngrats to them both......but I dont mean to be rude.....but what does "engaged" mean? I think this is NOT allowed by Islam.......they are alone together and probably have sex in this "engagement" period before they get married right? if so then its definately haraam.

 

But I wish them Happiness and a great marriage!!

 

Just a friendly reminder but making wrong assumptions and wrong accusations is haraam.

 

Engaged as in they have committed to one another and will be getting married soon :D . How do you know they are alone together? It would be kind of hard when they live about 7 hours apart and plus they are both practicing.

 

Once again be careful what you say about someone without fully knowing the whole situation because that can create rumors and slander and it will be on you then as the originator.

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peace.

 

 

I should have made myself more clear hehe, but I stated at the end that "if so then its definately haraam"

 

So I was not saying for sure that it's happening but I was saying that IF that was happening it would be haraam.

 

 

Peace

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:D

 

There is no difference between the Jews and Christians then and now. Those who have stopped believing and following are in name only, but those who practice, arethe same.

 

But, I agree that a Muslim man should prefer a Muslimah, as the first criteria for marriage is the religious inclinations of the girl.

 

Wassalam

are u kidding me bro of course there is , the ones back in the day never use to worship idols and pictures

it even says in the quran we are not allowed to marry idol worshippers.

salaam

Edited by arawelo16

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:D / Peace to all,

 

This thread was moved here by me...

 

Sis Zabrina

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:D / Peace to all,

 

Very interesting discussion so far...

 

Why do the reverts have to be looking for revert doctors? Why can't they be revert brothers?

 

Sometimes, it is good if a person can find someone of similar field because that person will have a better understanding of the demands that comes with the job. I have many cousins who are medical doctors and seen their way of life. Its really tough work. Being on-call, working at odd hours, not being able to be at home at normal time, not being able to take leave during family affairs etc can put a toll on the marriage.

 

I am not saying that people from other professions are not going to be able to understand these demands, but, i am saying if the spouse is in the same field, he/she would be able to understand the demand of the job better.

 

This hadeeth may be a good answer...

 

 

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #605, Narrated Ali ibn Abu Talib Transmitted by Tirmidhi.

 

Allah's Apostle said: Ali, there are three matters which should not be deferred: the Prayer when its time is due, the funeral as soon it is ready, and the case of a woman without a husband, when there is a suitable (spouse) for her in her class.

 

 

I was recently having a discussion with some of my female friends - and asking ourselves why, when most muslim men become successful they go with non-muslim women. Is this because men can marry women who are christian, jewish ..etc?

 

 

Peaceful_sis, i dont have an answer to your question, however, maybe this is a matter of personal preference. I dont know. What is clear is that the guidance to look for a spouse that we Muslims should follow, but sometimes ignored has already been given by our beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW.

 

 

Hadith - Muslim, #3465

 

'Abdullah b. 'Amr reported Allah's Messenger as saying: The whole world is a provision, and the best object of benefit of the world is the pious woman.

 

 

Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him quotes the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, as saying, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman; (otherwise) you will be a loser." (Reported by Al-Bukhari)

 

 

Hadith - Bukhari 7.28, Narrated Sahl

 

A man passed by Allah's Apostle and Allah's Apostle asked (his companions) "What do you say about this (man)?" They replied, "If he asks for a lady's hand, he ought to be given her in marriage; and if he intercedes (for someone) his intercessor should be accepted; and if he speaks, he should be listened to." Allah's Apostle kept silent, and then a man from among the poor Muslims passed by, an Allah's Apostle asked (them) "What do you say about this man?" They replied, "If he asks for a lady's hand in marriage he does not deserve to be married, and he intercedes (for someone), his intercession should not be accepted; And if he speaks, he should not be listened to." Allah's Apostle (saaws) said, "This poor man is better than so many of the first as filling the earth."

 

 

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #3090, Narrated Abu Hurairah, r.a.

 

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, 'When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks your daughter in marriage, accede to his request. If you do not do so, there will be temptation on Earth and extensive corruption.' [Tirmidhi, Nasa'i and Ibn Majah transmitted it.]

 

 

Allaahu 'alaam

 

Sis Zabrina

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the ones back in the day never use to worship idols and pictures

 

You are quite mistaken. There is a long history in Christianity of pictures and statues and the like being prayed to.

 

I found a useful link (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.diocese-oregon(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/iconography/history.htm"]here[/url] that gives some examples.

 

In a roughly 120 year period from about 726 C.E. to 843 C.E. there erupted a violent revolt in Byzantium, against the use of icons, which were considered "blasphemous" and "idolatrous".

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What do you mean successful? In terms of (in your case) studying medicine and then becoming a doctor and having a good job?

 

Well tell you what this is my observation about muslim girls from my own experiences at both universities i've attended and at work now: Muslim girls are too shy to come and talk to men. Its probably the haram/halal non mahrem bit in there but i'm not blaming them or anything just saying that muslim girls dont usually socialize with muslim guys. And when muslim guys try to get their attention, they play hard to get as if (stuck up or whatever reason)..

 

The second point, most non muslim women are not shy to talk to men. They are open and friendly and not necessarily inviting for intimacy but just talkative and "normal". Lets just say for an example while going through engineering school (for myself) you study with guys and girls (non muslims) and you get to know them over the course of 4-5 years and you know them outside of the books and you realize they are not that different from you and I save for the Islam bit.. one thing could lead to another and next thing you know marriage is in works! something like that..

 

No thats not the reason.

 

Let me just say what do you expect the guys to do when the muslim girls dont wish to socialize?? I understand the deeni bit here however.. thats a big reason and secondly (i'm not saying everyone does this but) some young muslim guys just want to party it up, have a good time in school, do whatever because they know once they get out of school their parents will get them married off to a muslim girl and they have to live proper muslim lives.. a bit twisted i know but :D !

 

You need to work on your skills here hahaha..

 

:D

 

 

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

 

Hasib brother i have 3 questions for you but be honest and respond as you really feel inside

 

quote "Muslim girls are too shy to come and talk to men. Its probably the haram/halal non mahrem bit in there but i'm not blaming them or anything just saying that muslim girls dont usually socialize with muslim guys."

 

Let us take an example you are married and your wife is a Student

 

1.Do you mind if your wife goes openly and talk to men and get socialize with muslim brothers?

 

If yes why? jealousy or?

 

2.If you say you are jealous then what is the differenece between married sister and single one?

 

3.Does that mean that if she is single she can go and talk to men?

 

If you say Yes, then i consider o being single she can, because during the conversation she can find her part

 

So the intention becomes for marriage

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