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How Do You Have Certainty Islam Is The Only Truth

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[at]llogical---i completely agree with you when you say:"People believe strongly on what they have been taught from childhood.

We are all raised in an environment where certain principles are drilled into our heads until our minds are molded into judging things in a certain way." Just as i understand anthony when he says:"I believe it in my heart. There is no other explanation"

 

It all depends on the point of view you have for everything and the way you've been raised up.

Just as i said in one of the threads here(sorry for being repetitive)."i'm not grown with the "breath" of Quran.." Which means...we as a family(me and my parents) believe there's God and we are thankful to him for the helps he gives us...but that's all! I haven't been taught to devote myself to religion or Quran(specifically). Or...If my parents hadn't mention God when i was a child...maybe i would wouldn't have had any idea about him....

 

So it all depends...it's just something felt in your heart...and in your mind!!

:sl:

Edited by Elidicious

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PropellerAds

Peace

 

The answer to the original post is really quite simple. You can't, plain and simple. The moment you have absolute certainty, (REAL certainty. not this; "I believe in Allah and so I believe Islam is the Way of life, that is my only reason")is the moment you no longer have faith, you have knowledge. Faith and knowledge are two very different things. Religion is based on following something you have no way of verifying, the whole basis of what faith is about. If you 100% KNEW that God existed you would be playing by a whole seperate set of rules.

 

Very good explanation brother, you make a very important distinction.

 

 

Faith and Knowledge are 2 completely different things. We cannot proove for sure that any God exists. But we BELIEVE (seemingly against reason or logic) in the existance of Allah(swt) because we have this faith in our hearts and we follow what we believe to be His Signs, such as the Noble Qur'an.

 

That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

Salaams

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How Do You Have Certainty Islam Is The Only Truth

 

Well it s simple ask god !?

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So the only way to be sure that Allah exists is to believe in him?

no thats not the only way.look around you.what do you see?the sky,the earth,do you see any fault in them?

just think and yourself.how you are being able to think.who gave you the brains?and that heart that beats continuously without your will.did it just happen to be there?or did u create yourself out of nothing?if so, how did you do it?

then what about the sky,earth and all the other animals?who created them?

lets make this easier, if you see a watch,will you say that it just happened to be there?and it 'cannot have a designer'?

no right?if there can be a designer for a simple watch then why cant there be a designer for all these creations?

CERTAINLY THERE IS CREATOR.AND HE IS Allah ALMIGHTY,ARRAHMAAN ARRAHIM.

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Religion is based on following something you have no way of verifying, the whole basis of what faith is about.

For me, believing in the existence of God is just like believing in the existence of the wind and electron. I can only see the effects of electrons moving, the orbits and etc but cannot see the electron itself, same case with the wind. Yes, it takes faith too.

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

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[at]anthony--"Faith and Knowledge are 2 completely different things. We cannot proove for sure that any God exists. But we BELIEVE . "---agree...

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[at]anthony--"Faith and Knowledge are 2 completely different things. We cannot proove for sure that any God exists. But we BELIEVE . "---agree...

 

Faith and knowledge are not 2 completely different things but they should complete each others , as for not being able to proof the existence of god well certainly the problem seems that you do not understand what is proof .

 

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look around you.what do you see?the sky,the earth,do you see any fault in them?

Actually, I do. The sky sometimes gives rise to hurricanes and tornadoes, which cause needless destruction.

 

The earth sometimes shakes, destroying lives and property, or spawning tsunamis which wipe out whole villages, full of innocent babies.

 

lf you see a watch,will you say that it just happened to be there?and it 'cannot have a designer'?

no right?if there can be a designer for a simple watch then why cant there be a designer for all these creations?

Perhaps, but if I, a mere human, can imagine a number of ways to improve the design, then the design is hardly perfect. Why would I conclude that the designer is perfect, if the design is not?

 

CERTAINLY THERE IS CREATOR.AND HE IS Allah ALMIGHTY,ARRAHMAAN ARRAHIM.

Even if it is true that there is a creator, it's still questionable whether the creator is Allah or Yahweh or even Zeus. There are a lot of competing claims, and most people choose the same truth their parents believe. Did Allah send an angel to dictate the Quran to Muhammed, or did he just convince himself that it came from an angel?

 

If I'm not mistaken, the Quran says that angels are all male, not female, and may have 2 wings, or 4 wings, or 6 wings.

 

If I saw angels frequently, either in person or on television, and saw that they appeared masculine and did indeed have 2, 4, or 6 wings, that would be evidence that the Quran is correct on the question of angels, and perhaps Islam is the Only Truth. Even if I had only occasionally seen an angel, I'd be more inclined to take it seriously. The problem is, I've NEVER seen an angel, and I've never met anyone who has.

 

It seems like the people who wrote the Bible and the Quran were accustomed to seeing angels all the time, but that just hasn't been my experience. I read of the "clear signs" in the Quran which are supposed to be convincers -- day follows night, rain falls from the sky, boats float on the water -- and somehow I'm still not convinced. On Venus, sulfuric acid falls from the sky, nourishing nothing. It makes sense to me that the laws of physics have given rise to numerous planets in our solar system, and that random chance has left 7 of them incapable of supporting life, while the earth is more fortunate. If I were designing a watch, I wouldn't encumber it with lots of wheels and dials that did nothing, while buried in the middle was one hard-to-see face which would tell the time.

 

I can accept that people believe things without evidence, on faith alone, but I'm just not that type of person.

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"It seems like the people who wrote the Bible and the Quran were accustomed to seeing angels all the time"--:sl:

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Perhaps, but if I, a mere human, can imagine a number of ways to improve the design, then the design is hardly perfect. Why would I conclude that the designer is perfect, if the design is not?
A person can imagine a lot of things and I m sure that if god exists he could imagine a lot more things then you but how many of those things that you can imagine can you realize ? so it s not sufficient to imagine things to improve the design to prove that the design is not perfect but you have be able to realize your imagination till then you are not making a good point .
If I'm not mistaken, the Quran says that angels are all male, not female, and may have 2 wings, or 4 wings, or 6 wings.

 

If I saw angels frequently, either in person or on television, and saw that they appeared masculine and did indeed have 2, 4, or 6 wings, that would be evidence that the Quran is correct on the question of angels, and perhaps Islam is the Only Truth. Even if I had only occasionally seen an angel, I'd be more inclined to take it seriously.

No the quran did not say whether angels are male or female and actually discussing this is considered a waste of time .

The problem is, I've NEVER seen an angel, and I've never met anyone who has.
Actually there is a verse in the Quran which said that if you were to see angels on earth you would see them people like you who eats and drinks , also there are many stories in the Quran about prophets meeting angels in the form of humans and there is a hadith Nawawi in which the angel Gabriel came to the prophet when he was with his companions and ask him about Islam and at the end the prophet said this is Gabriel who came to teach you your religion.

 

It seems like the people who wrote the Bible and the Quran were accustomed to seeing angels all the time, but that just hasn't been my experience. I read of the "clear signs" in the Quran which are supposed to be convincers -- day follows night, rain falls from the sky, boats float on the water -- and somehow I'm still not convinced.

Back to square one what is proof ?

On Venus, sulfuric acid falls from the sky, nourishing nothing. It makes sense to me that the laws of physics have given rise to numerous planets in our solar system, and that random chance has left 7 of them incapable of supporting life, while the earth is more fortunate. If I were designing a watch, I wouldn't encumber it with lots of wheels and dials that did nothing, while buried in the middle was one hard-to-see face which would tell the time.

So you are saying that the only purpose of planets is to support human life ? so the moon has no purpose nor effect what so ever ? what about gravitation ?

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Hi friends for reply to How Do You Have Certainty Islam Is The Only Truth

 

Please refer to this post

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=38222&view=findpost&p=402502"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=402502[/url]

 

and

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=24275&view=findpost&p=402377"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&sh...st&p=402377[/url]

 

Thanks :sl:

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A person can imagine a lot of things and I m sure that if god exists he could imagine a lot more things then you but how many of those things that you can imagine can you realize ? so it s not sufficient to imagine things to improve the design to prove that the design is not perfect but you have be able to realize your imagination till then you are not making a good point .

While is is possible that the Creator imagined a better design, but was unable to realize it, that Creator would not have been Allah. Allah, as described in the Quran, is fully capable of realizing any design He can conceive. Therefore, if the design is not perfect, that is either evidence that Allah is not the Designer, or that Allah did not intend to create a perfect design.

 

I think the usual argument is, "The design IS perfect, it is your understanding of the design which is flawed."

 

No the quran did not say whether angels are male or female and actually discussing this is considered a waste of time .

Then I was mistaken. It clearly says they have 4, 6, or 8 wings, and I've never seen evidence of such a creature.

 

So you are saying that the only purpose of planets is to support human life ?

I don't believe planets have a purpose. Individual people may have a purpose, if they choose to.

Edited by spamsickle

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Actually, I do. The sky sometimes gives rise to hurricanes and tornadoes, which cause needless destruction.

 

The earth sometimes shakes, destroying lives and property, or spawning tsunamis which wipe out whole villages, full of innocent babies.

have ever heard of anything called a test?you must been to some sort of a school and you also must have done some tests.why were they given to you?to test you isnt it.whether you are doing fine or not whether you pass or not.and to certify you if you pass.

well God also puts us through tests when we live in this world.and it can come as a tornado or maybe a hurricane or maybe some other way which we call a natural disaster-they are not faults in nature.if you look at the sky,do you see any incompletion in it?look at it with an open mind.

if we pass these tests well we will be rewarded.maybe jannathulfirdhaus-heaven.

that is our certificate.

or even you will agree that many evil people exist on earth.thieves,murderers,rapist

and many more.and many times many escape the law.these disasters can even be a punishment for them.

let me conclude-such disasters are tests for some people and are punishments for some.

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God also puts us through tests when we live in this world.and it can come as a tornado or maybe a hurricane or maybe some other way which we call a natural disaster-they are not faults in nature.

Still, I wonder what is really learned in testing an infant by sweeping it out to sea as it sleeps in its crib. It dies in terror and confusion, and never even hears about Allah or the Quran.

 

many evil people exist on earth.thieves,murderers,rapist

and many more.and many times many escape the law.these disasters can even be a punishment for them.

Yes, that would be some comfort. I, too, am bothered by evil doers who escape justice, and it would be nice to think that there is a divine justice which punishes the evil men do even when they evade the laws of men. Of course, I would prefer that they were punished individually, without at the same time punishing so many innocent people.

 

If lightning struck the houses of thieves, and burned them to the ground, that would be justice.

 

If the hearts of murderers stopped beating, and they fell lifeless, that would be justice.

 

If rapists were afflicted with painful boils, and were rendered impotent, that would be justice.

 

When the innocent receive the same fate as the guilty, it's difficult for me to characterize it as "justice".

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Therefore, if the design is not perfect, that is either evidence that Allah is not the Designer, or that Allah did not intend to create a perfect design.

We call the perfect place that you are referring to (which is without storm or hurricane etc) as heaven.

 

Still, I wonder what is really learned in testing an infant by sweeping it out to sea as it sleeps in its crib. It dies in terror and confusion, and never even hears about Allah or the Quran.
This baby could be committing sins in the future that would lead him to hell forever.

 

The following verse is just an example:

 

Then they proceeded: until, when they met a young man, he slew him. Moses said: "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard of) thing hast thou done! Qur'an 18:74

And as for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should make disobedience and ingratitude to come upon them: 18:80

 

When the innocent receive the same fate as the guilty, it's difficult for me to characterize it as "justice".

For Muslims, it is not the matter how you die, rather how prepared you are to die when you don't expect it.

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

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when the innocent receive the same fate as the guilty, it's difficult for me to characterize it as "justice".

when an infant dies he or she goes to heaven because she or he is innocent.it is far better than growing up and possibly commit sins and end up in hell.

and by the way i have already told you that for some people such incidents are mere tests.so only the evil cannot get struck by lightning,or get a heart attack and die.anyway the way anybody dies doesnt matter at all.what matters is how you have lived your life and where you end up hear after.

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haw wa:"when an infant dies he or she goes to heaven because she or he is innocent."--this is not an excuse. Maybe heaven/hell is not all what an infant wants. All she/he wants is LIFE.

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Yasnov

While is is possible that the Creator imagined a better design, but was unable to realize it, that Creator would not have been Allah. Allah, as described in the Quran, is fully capable of realizing any design He can conceive. Therefore, if the design is not perfect, that is either evidence that Allah is not the Designer, or that Allah did not intend to create a perfect design.

I think the usual argument is, "The design IS perfect, it is your understanding of the design which is flawed."

First of all we have to understand what does perfect means? I looked into the dictionary and came with those definitions:

a- Excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement.

b- exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose , a perfect actor to play Macbeth , a perfect universe for humans to live in it and to be tested

c- Entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings.

Before answering you let s just go back to

The design IS perfect, it is your understanding of the design which is flawed.

This statement can be true or untrue to be able to seek it s truth value we have proceed like this :

This statement can be false in 2 case :

1-the design is imperfect , we can prove it s imperfection and that our understanding is not flawed.

2- The design is perfect and we can understand it s perfection .

It can be true only in one case :

3-the design is perfect and our understanding of the design is flawed.

 

Let s proceed :

If we use the definition “a- Excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement†to define the word perfect , we have first to be able to prove that this kind of perfection is possible , and this is beyond our scope here but to be brief it s not since knowledge is infinite a quick proof will be : knowledge is finite so the truth values of all propositions is known , so what is the truth value of this one : I know that I don t know everything , if it is true then knowledge is infinite if it is false then also knowledge is infinite because I don t know that I don t know everything hence I don t know if this statement is true or false thus the truth value of this proposition is unknown so knowledge is not finite.

Let s proceed to proposition “b- exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose , a perfect actor to play Macbeth , a perfect universe for humans to live in it and to be tested†well as haw-wa said it seems that it fits what is described in the Quran about this life being a test for humans so that god can distinguish good from evil , that he created life and death to see who does better …. So if you want the point of view of the Quran and the kind of perfection intended by god in creating this universe search no more this is your answer and also this answer your previous question

Perhaps, but if I, a mere human, can imagine a number of ways to improve the design, then the design is hardly perfect. Why would I conclude that the designer is perfect, if the design is not?
Finally we move to “c- entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings .â€now you can argue that this is untrue because of all the evils that exist in this world but then again if you believe that b is true then c should be true , if not that then I think it will be good at this time to mention Gödel incompleteness theorem which has been taken to imply that you'll never entirely understand yourself, since your mind, like any other closed system, can only be sure of what it knows about itself by relying on what it knows about itself. By the way there is a hadith from muhamad in which he said the same things :
ÇÃÑÇß ÇáÚÌÒ Úä ÇÃÑÇß ÇáÅÃÑÇß åæ ÇÃÑÇß

 

So this could help you to see that your understanding is flawed , if you believe this is untrue then you know what you have to do prove that the human understanding is unflawed and prove that the design is not perfect and disprove b.

I don't believe planets have a purpose. Individual people may have a purpose, if they choose to.
As you said you don t believe , and with all due respect your belief have nothing to do here , it s a fact that planet have a purpose in this universe this is a scientific fact , you can choose to deny that , it is your right but this does not change anything .
Then I was mistaken. It clearly says they have 4, 6, or 8 wings, and I've never seen evidence of such a creature.

Well I admire you they are really few people who admit their mistakes and this makes you a good fellow atheist , now back to reply on what you said not seeing does not mean not existing , they can exist and they cannot exist ,now to answer this there is one simple way either god exist and the Quran is the word of god hence this makes their existence true or god does exist and the Quran is not his work so this make their existence false , or god does not exist so the quran is the work of muhamad and this also make their existence obsolete .

 

Elidicious :

 

and how do you want what he wants ? and correct me if i m wrong isn t he getting eternal life where he is going ?

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:sl:

 

haw wa:"when an infant dies he or she goes to heaven because she or he is innocent."--this is not an excuse. Maybe heaven/hell is not all what an infant wants. All she/he wants is LIFE.

 

That is not an excuse but the justice and mercy of Allah :sl:, an infant does not have the capability to do either good or bad so it is sent straight to heaven (which by the way is ETERNAL LIFE of happiness).

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when an infant dies he or she goes to heaven because she or he is innocent.it is far better than growing up and possibly commit sins and end up in hell.

You know, I actually find this oddly comforting. It means that most Muslims don't have a literal, "strictly follow every word" view of the Quran. If they did, there would be a lot more infanticide, since the most loving thing you could do for your children would be to send them straight to heaven, before they have a chance to be tempted by the transient pleasures of this world.

 

Since the vast majority of Muslim parents don't fast-track their children to heaven, I conclude that their belief is tempered by a healthy measure of common sense. I'm encouraged by that.

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If they did, there would be a lot more infanticide, since the most loving thing you could do for your children would be to send them straight to heaven, before they have a chance to be tempted by the transient pleasures of this world.

Mutual relationship ... Why would you fast-track your children to heaven, if in the end you will end up in hell and will never be able to see them in heaven? What's the benefit? Just teach yourself and your children the true religion and both of you can go to heaven. It's win-win situation, isn't it?

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

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haw wa:"when an infant dies he or she goes to heaven because she or he is innocent."--this is not an excuse. Maybe heaven/hell is not all what an infant wants. All she/he wants is LIFE.

subhanallah,are you a muslim?

life in heaven is a thousand times better,much much better than life in this world.

once you get to enter junnah,you would never wont get out of there.but here there are many people who kill themselves because they feel that they dont have the capacity to face the problems here.at some point everyone feels desperate.there is no one who does not face problems.if you face them with courage with the Grace of God you might find a solution.

whereas in heaven there is no facing of trouble.so if an infant dies and goes to heaven,he or she would never want a life,he or she has already got he or she wants

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You know, I actually find this oddly comforting. It means that most Muslims don't have a literal, "strictly follow every word" view of the Quran. If they did, there would be a lot more infanticide, since the most loving thing you could do for your children would be to send them straight to heaven, before they have a chance to be tempted by the transient pleasures of this world.

Since the vast majority of Muslim parents don't fast-track their children to heaven, I conclude that their belief is tempered by a healthy measure of common sense. I'm encouraged by that.

you know i find this quite amusing.

ofcourse we want our children to go to heaven-it doesnt mean we have to 'send' them to heaven-do you mean by killing them???and end our selves in hell :sl:

first we are supposed to save our selves from hell fire and then others.

my dear we are not the ones who 'send' people-anybody to hell or heaven.God is the judge-not us.we are just supposed to give out the message to people like you and face you with patience.

i hope you understood what i said

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Mutual relationship ... Why would you fast-track your children to heaven, if in the end you will end up in hell and will never be able to see them in heaven? What's the benefit? Just teach yourself and your children the true religion and both of you can go to heaven. It's win-win situation, isn't it?

The problem is, there is no certainty in life. You may be the most pious and devoted parent, not only teaching the Quran but really living it, and your children may still be rebellious and headstrong. Or they may simply be weak and easily tempted. If life is a test, not everyone is going to pass.

 

Once a true believer has fast-tracked his children to heaven, he can fast-track himself as well, by dying in a jihad. I'm not talking about suicide bombing here, killing innocents and committing suicide. I'm talking about a righteous battle against the enemies of Islam. Wouldn't the true believer, relying on the strict truth of every word in the Quran, know for a fact that dying in this manner would guarantee him an express ticket to paradise?

 

I'm not seriously suggesting that people should do this, only that a strict reading of the Quran would seem to justify it. My hope is that Muslims, like Christians and Jews before them, are moving away from such a fundamentalist view of their central text. Christians, for the most part, don't believe they must conform to every word written in the Bible. For most, simply believing in God and Jesus, and attempting to live their lives in accordance with the rule "Love your neighbor as yourself" is sufficient. They don't believe it's necessary to murder their rebellious children, even though the Old Testament commands them to do so.

 

Similarly, the Quran says that if a Muslim accidentally kills a believer, part of his punishment is that he must free one of his slaves who is a believer. If you're going to drive a car, there's always a small chance that you'll kill someone accidentally, so a strict reading of the Quran would seem to me to mandate that you should own Muslim slaves as part of your insurance policy. Most modern societies frown on slavery. Should Muslims ignore the laws of man, or assume that at least part of Allah's word may have been relevant in Medina in 600 A.D., but is no longer applicable today?

 

My sincere hope is that it's the latter, that Muslims, as Jews and Christians before them, will consider it sufficient to humbly serve Allah by living a good life. My hope is that "a good life" will not necessarily include fighting the unbelievers until they humbly submit, but rather that we can live and let live, mutually respecting each other's beliefs (or lack of them).

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