Jump to content
Islamic Forum
Haafid

How Do You Have Certainty Islam Is The Only Truth

Recommended Posts

[at]haw wa--"are you a muslim"--I don't know for sure..

 

"life in heaven is a thousand times better,much much better than life in this world."---Not for those who don't believe in it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds
Still, I wonder what is really learned in testing an infant by sweeping it out to sea as it sleeps in its crib. It dies in terror and confusion, and never even hears about Allah or the Quran.

 

Had I been born that baby, I would have been blessed a billion times over.

 

Babies automatically go to Heaven on death, no questions asked. You seem to believe that because they lose this simple existance, they are being punished, when they are allowed to skip all of the hardship, straight to the good parts.

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Had I been born that baby, I would have been blessed a billion times over.

 

Babies automatically go to Heaven on death, no questions asked. You seem to believe that because they lose this simple existance, they are being punished, when they are allowed to skip all of the hardship, straight to the good parts.

 

Salam.

 

So true, i always thought of killing myself when i was young when going through something i disliked but life goes on.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hahaha :sl:

 

why are you fighting for those infants who have passed away ? do you think you can bring them back by discussing like this ? It is God who decided to take up back after birth and put them in heaven so who are you all to decide that they wanted life or not? friends fear God and dont discuss about matters which you know not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Babies automatically go to Heaven on death, no questions asked. You seem to believe that because they lose this simple existance, they are being punished, when they are allowed to skip all of the hardship, straight to the good parts.

My honest belief is that this simple existence is all there is, and that babies who die in natural disasters are neither being punished nor rewarded, they're just dying tragically without ever really knowing what it means to live.

 

My question for you would be, if a "test" is not necessary to enter paradise, then what is the point of all this pain and suffering? That baby in the crib might have grown up to be the next Hitler or the next Gandhi, but either way it's irrelevant, because he's instantly whisked off to Heaven. You may argue that Allah knows ahead of time which he would become, since Allah knows all. If that is the case, He knows ahead of time for every person who's ever lived, or ever will live. If no test is necessary, what is the point of this imperfect world at all? Allah could just create Heaven with all the good souls, and Hell with all the evil, and be done with it.

 

Since I don't believe Allah, heaven, or hell really exist, for me natural disasters are simply a fact of life. When they harm good people, it isn't a test, and when they harm evil people, it isn't a punishment. This world may be imperfect, but it's all we have. Life is a precious opportunity to be aware and to make a difference, not an 80-year prelude to unspeakable torture or boring gratification. We can use our brief time in the sun to improve life for ourselves and those who will live after us, or we can squander the time we have as though it doesn't matter. I believe it does matter, not because it's an opportunity to earn a better lot after I die, but because this life is all there is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If life is a test, not everyone is going to pass.

True, but not everyone is going to fail

 

Once a true believer has fast-tracked his children to heaven, he can fast-track himself as well, by dying in a jihad. I'm not talking about suicide bombing here, killing innocents and committing suicide. I'm talking about a righteous battle against the enemies of Islam. Wouldn't the true believer, relying on the strict truth of every word in the Quran, know for a fact that dying in this manner would guarantee him an express ticket to paradise?
Firstly, pious, good and devoted Muslim would never kill a baby, if he kills, then he is not pious and he disobeys Allah SWT's command; secondly, Allah knows whatever is in your mind or intentions, and the last one, you cannot play a game with Allah SWT, you don't know your future. What if you die before you have your chance to repent and go to war for a jihad? Your plans wouldn't always work, let alone your wrong methods. The emphasis is not on dying in the war itself (being able to go to heaven), but rather what's on your heart. Do you do it because you really obey Allah SWT's words or because you are simply wanting to go to heaven or to be remembered as a hero and etc.

 

For most, simply believing in God and Jesus, and attempting to live their lives in accordance with the rule "Love your neighbor as yourself" is sufficient. They don't believe it's necessary to murder their rebellious children, even though the Old Testament commands them to do so.

They simply believe in just God and Jesus because they know following OT in this modern time would be absurd. Those books are no longer relevant as they said. As for Muslims, we don't think there is such an absurd verse in Qur'an as to kill rebellious children.

 

Similarly, the Quran says that if a Muslim accidentally kills a believer, part of his punishment is that he must free one of his slaves who is a believer.
If he kills accidentally, then it is not his faults. If he kill purposely, then he would get death sentence in return which means he paid for it.

 

If you're going to drive a car, there's always a small chance that you'll kill someone accidentally

You don't get punished for hitting someone accidentally, it's beyond your control and it's not your attention to kill him.

 

but rather that we can live and let live, mutually respecting each other's beliefs (or lack of them).

That's one of Islamic principles.

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

double post

Edited by Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My honest belief is that this simple existence is all there is, and that babies who die in natural disasters are neither being punished nor rewarded

Well, it's up to you what you want to believe. Just because you see it that way, it doesn't mean it must happen that way.

 

My question for you would be, if a "test" is not necessary to enter paradise, then what is the point of all this pain and suffering?
There is no test for babies.

 

That baby in the crib might have grown up to be the next Hitler or the next Gandhi, but either way it's irrelevant,

No, his fate is not to be the next Hitler or the next Gandhi.

 

We can use our brief time in the sun to improve life for ourselves and those who will live after us, or we can squander the time we have as though it doesn't matter.

Yes, we can improve our life for ourselves without having to become disbelievers or atheists. To be fair, disbelieves or atheists have also had their share of corrupting this world.

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My honest belief is that this simple existence is all there is, and that babies who die in natural disasters are neither being punished nor rewarded, they're just dying tragically without ever really knowing what it means to live.

 

What I said was in response to your comment about God making babies suffer and die horrible deaths. Nothing could be better than being innocent enough not to have to account for your deeds.

 

My question for you would be, if a "test" is not necessary to enter paradise, then what is the point of all this pain and suffering? That baby in the crib might have grown up to be the next Hitler or the next Gandhi, but either way it's irrelevant, because he's instantly whisked off to Heaven.
Think of it this way. People of all ages die. Babies, toddlers, teenagers, middle aged people, old people. Now why would any age group suddenly have immortality until they are in the next stage of their lives?

 

Babies, or even children who die before reaching maturity, are part of life as God had intended it. Some people are born rich, others are born geniuses, others with athletic abilities. These children are born with a shorter life span than the average person, because this is proof of how unpredictable death is. It is a reminder to us that our life could be shorter than we think.

 

I find it interesting that you aren't at least (even begrudgingly) acknowledging God's mercy when he doesn't burden young souls with accountability for their lives. But I'm not surprised, because people usually like to point out what they dislike.

 

Even atheists know how innocent babies and children are. That they have no idea between right and wrong, and are in a huge learning stage of their lives. God knows best (as always), and does not question them for what they don't understand.

 

Allah could just create Heaven with all the good souls, and Hell with all the evil, and be done with it.

 

Allah could have done that, but why He chose not to is proof of his mercy. He gave us a chance to exist, to think for our selves, and to choose between right and wrong.

 

....but because this life is all there is.

 

Then I hope that you will reflect on those words, and consider the possibility that you could be wrong, however small you might think it is.

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
following OT in this modern time would be absurd. Those books are no longer relevant as they said. As for Muslims, we don't think there is such an absurd verse in Qur'an

The Quran condones slavery, which is condemned by most modern societies. 23:5-6 says men should abstain from sex except with their wives and their slaves.

 

As an unbeliever, I would say that the verses which speak of, and condone, slavery are irrelevant in this modern time, and should safely be ignored.

 

My fear is that a fundamentalist will say that such verses are not only still relevant, but that in order to serve Allah, we must create governments which similarly condone slavery. This is only one example, but it illustrates why my quarrel is with fundamentalism rather than with moderate, modern Islam. The Quran was written 1400 years ago, and it is a product of its time. Most of it is still relevant today, but I would argue that some of it is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
we can improve our life for ourselves without having to become disbelievers or atheists.

I absolutely agree. When I explain why I think the way I do, my goal is simply to help others understand, not to lead anyone away from Allah. I believe there are good and bad people among all groups. I'm not trying to be funny when I say it's better to be a good Muslim than a bad atheist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I find it interesting that you aren't at least (even begrudgingly) acknowledging God's mercy when he doesn't burden young souls with accountability for their lives.

As an unbeliever, it's really a hypothetical question for me. If God is truly responsible for snuffing out the lives of little babies, then certainly it's a good thing that they go straight to heaven.

 

It just seems to me that God could be a bit more merciful by not burdening ANYONE with accountability, and skipping life altogether.

 

Allah could have done that, but why He chose not to is proof of his mercy. He gave us a chance to exist, to think for our selves, and to choose between right and wrong.

For those who are destined for Heaven, life is just an unnecessary opportunity to experience pain, suffering, hunger, and loss en route to eternal happiness. The merciful thing to do would be to spare them the experience.

 

For those like me who are destined for hell, I guess delaying the inevitable is merciful. Of course, from my perspective, the real merciful thing to do would be to just let me die at the end of my life instead of torturing me for the rest of eternity, but I'll take what I can get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Quran condones slavery, which is condemned by most modern societies. 23:5-6 says men should abstain from sex except with their wives and their slaves.

Back then, people had servants who they traded food, clothing and shelter for their services. That is how they paid other people. And Islam want to change this gradually so it would not disrupt socio-economic existence which may cause disorder in the society because at that time slavery is just normal and common and so widespread. Slavery is part of every society. A society without slaves is not a society in that age since the economy of many regions during that period depended on a system where slavery played an integral part. Therefore, it would have been impractical to eradicate slavery with a command to stop it altogether. Slavery was so deep-rooted in the social structure of the time that it had far-reaching social and economic implications. And Islam acknowledges this fact. So, its abolition required a period of time far longer than the life of the Prophet. This was the reason why there was no categorical ban of slavery during his time.

 

In the matter of slavery, Islam gave a sound basis for the freeing of slaves through voluntary enfranchisement by charting a course to a permanent resolution of the complicated problem. It also presented strict conditions that made it extremely difficult for people to enslave others. Under the Islamic system, we see slaves exalted to the position of military commanders and leaders. When the Prophet sent out an army that consisted of the closest of the Companions — the Muhajirun (Immigrants) and the Ansar (Helpers), the acknowledged leaders of the Muslims — he entrusted Zaid, a former slave, with the generalship of the army. After the death of Zaid, the Prophet appointed Zaid's son Osama as the commander of the army consisting of such illustrious men as Abu Bakr and `Umar, his two principal Companions.

 

Only in Islamic history do we find slaves being elevated to the highest positions of power, such as commanders-in-chief and kings, and indeed whole dynasties like the Mamluks of Egypt and the Slave Dynasty of India. Thus, slaves were given not only a status equal and similar to others, but were at the same time raised to the exalted positions of leading the armies of free men. In this regard the Prophet commanded the believers: "You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he was a black Ethiopian slave whose head looks like a raisin" (Al-Bukhari).

 

It is noteworthy that the slavery once practiced in the Muslim world cannot be compared to the form it had assumed in the Roman Empire, for instance. Islamic legislation subjected slave-owners to a set of precise obligations, first among which was the slave's right to life, which in other cultures was of no significance. So under Islam, the murder of a slave was punished like that of a free man. Islam that first declared the equality of all human beings, including slaves: equality in origin, in values, and in destiny. Thus it was in the Islamic Ummah that for the first time ever, slaves became brothers and sisters of their masters.

 

The Prophet said, "Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case, I advise you to help them" (Al-Bukhari). Slavery was never praised or encouraged in Islam. One of the Companions, `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, berated Muslims in a famous khutbah (sermon), asking them "When did you enslave people while Allah the Almighty created them free?". This means that the Muslims from the very beginning advocated the freedom of all human beings and were against the oppression and enslavement of free people.

 

As an unbeliever, I would say that the verses which speak of, and condone, slavery are irrelevant in this modern time, and should safely be ignored.

When we say that Islam is a religion for all mankind and for all times, we do not at all mean that it has once and for all laid down all the rules for all times and climes in full detail. What is meant is that Islam has laid down enough general principles and guidelines that would help solve the problems that may arise from time to time.

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Edited by Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sahih Bukhari

 

[3:46:693] Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave." Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to `Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom `Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars.

 

Sahih Bukhari

 

[3:46:693] Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave." Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to `Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom `Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars.

 

 

[3:46:721] Narrated Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid: I saw Abu Dhar Al-Ghifari wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a cloak. We asked him about that (i.e. how both were wearing similar cloaks). He replied, "Once I abused a man and he complained of me to the Prophet. The Prophet asked me, `Did you abuse him by slighting his mother?' He added, `Your slaves are your brethren upon whom Allah has given you authority. So, if one has one's brethren under one's control, one should feed them with the like of what one eats and clothe them with the like of what one wears. You should not overburden them with what they cannot bear, and if you do so, help them (in their hard job)."

 

[3:46:704] Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever frees his portion of a common slave should free the slave completely by paying the rest of his price from his money if he has enough money; otherwise the price of the slave is to be estimated and the slave is to be helped to work without hardship till he pays the rest of his price."

 

[38:9:15] Narrated Aisha Ummul Mu'minin: The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, was asked what was the most excellent kind of slave to free. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, answered, "The most expensive and the most valuable to his master."

 

Prophet Muhammad SAW: "Your slaves are brothers of yours. God has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him, he should feed him with what he eats, and dress him with what he dresses himself, and do not burden them beyond their capacities, and if you burden them, (beyond their capacities), then help them."

 

Book 015, Number 4096:

 

Abu Huraira reported God's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097

 

Book 015, Number 4095:

 

Abu Huraira reported God's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is essential to feed the slave, clothe him (properly) and not burden him with work which is beyond his power.

 

Book 015, Number 4094:

 

Ma'rur b. Suwaid reported: I saw Abu Dharr wearing clothes, and his slave wearing similar ones. I asked him about it, and he narrated that he had abused a person during the lifetime of God's Messenger (may peace be upoe. him) and he reproached him for his mother. That person came to God's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and made mention of that to him. Thereupon God's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: You are a person who has (remnants of) Ignorance in him. Your slaves are brothers of yours. God has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him, he should feed him with what he eats, and dress him with what he dresses himself, and do not burden them beyond their capacities, and if you burden them, (beyond their capacities), then help them.

 

Marry: Slaves and Maid Servants; Emancipation, Qur'an 24:27-34 Surah An-Nur:

Tell the believing men... And tell the believing women... And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid servants. If they be poor; Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware. And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing of emancipation, write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, Lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful...

 

Free Slaves, Qur'an 2:177 Surah Al-Baqarah:

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.

 

Free a Slave, Qur'an 58:3-4 Surah Al-Mujadilah (She That Disputeth): Those who put away their wives by saying they are as their mothers and afterward would go back on that which they have said; the penalty in that case is the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. Unto this ye are exhorted; and Allah is informed of what ye do. And he who findeth not the wherewithal, let him fast for two successive months before they touch one another; and for him who is unable to do so the penance is the feeding of sixty needy ones. This, that ye may put trust in Allah and His messenger. Such are the limits imposed by Allah; and for disbelievers is a painful doom.

 

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When we say that Islam is a religion for all mankind and for all times, we do not at all mean that it has once and for all laid down all the rules for all times and climes in full detail. What is meant is that Islam has laid down enough general principles and guidelines that would help solve the problems that may arise from time to time.

And I would agree with this. Men must use common sense, and apply general principles in light of modern realities. The Quran (or the Hadith; I'm not sure) may say that we should eat with our right hand instead of our left hand, but it doesn't say whether we should drive on the right side or the left side of the road. And if someone has lost the use of his right hand, he shouldn't have to starve no matter what the holy books contain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For those like me who are destined for hell

How do you know that you are destined for hell?

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As an unbeliever, it's really a hypothetical question for me. If God is truly responsible for snuffing out the lives of little babies, then certainly it's a good thing that they go straight to heaven.

 

Your choice of wording says a lot more than you think.

 

You use the word "snuff" in relation to what God does to children and yet, you still don't give him credit for being the one to allow them to go straight Heaven. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

 

You make it sound like "God snuffs out their lives so they deserve to go to Heaven, regardless of what God thinks". Is that what you're implying?

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And if someone has lost the use of his right hand, he shouldn't have to starve no matter what the holy books contain.

Just for your information, haram food can become halal under certain condition. If a man is found with nothing to eat but a meat of pig then he can eat from it. But people shouldn't do it and say "oh I was in need".

 

Al-Baqarah 173. He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

Quran 5:3

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

Quran 6:145

145. Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."

 

quran 16:115

He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit] - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

Islam is very easy and practical.

 

Wassalam,

Yasnov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You use the word "snuff" in relation to what God does to children and yet, you still don't give him credit for being the one to allow them to go straight Heaven. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

If God snuffs out the lives of innocent little babies, it is truly most generous of Him, at the very instant of snuffage, to escort them straight to the Heaven which He in His bountiful goodness has so graciously provided. Better?

 

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If God snuffs...

 

Is there any reason for using the word "snuff", which has a negative connotation to it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you know that you are destined for hell?

This is an Islamic forum, and my understanding is that Islam says all unbelievers are destined for hell.

 

Since I'm an unbeliever, Islam is pretty clear on what my destiny will be. I happen to think Islam is wrong about my destiny, but you know how much that will protect me on the Day the Believers will laugh at the Unbelievers (83:34).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there any reason for using the word "snuff", which has a negative connotation to it?

Is there a word for "murder" which doesn't have a negative connotation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just for your information, haram food can become halal under certain condition. If a man is found with nothing to eat but a meat of pig then he can eat from it. But people shouldn't do it and say "oh I was in need".

That seems reasonable. It's good to hear that the spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law. That's the basic distinction I make between a moderate position and a fundamentalist position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there a word for "murder" which doesn't have a negative connotation?

 

To be honest, this is the reason I was asking all of these questions. I had a feeling that you would end up using the word "murder" somewhere down the line.

 

You consider God taking lives to be murder. So in actuality, death is murder by God. Meaning, people should have the right to immortality on Earth without interference from God, the creator. Kind of like an all-night kids' party without a curfew.

 

And why exactly do you consider it murder and not, say, a passing into the next stage of existance?

 

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You consider God taking lives to be murder. So in actuality, death is murder by God.

If I did believe in God, believed that God was responsible for creating natural disasters, and believed that God knew ahead of time that there were people in the path of (for instance) His tsunami, then I would consider death by tsunami to be murder by God. It would be no different than if I deliberately ran over someone with a car I was driving.

 

On the other hand, if I drove my car without running over anyone, and they died of old age, then I wouldn't be guilty of murder. If God allowed someone to die of old age, I wouldn't consider that murder either.

 

Untimely death by disease would be something of a grey area, but I myself wouldn't call it murder.

 

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

 

And why exactly do you consider it murder and not, say, a passing into the next stage of existance?

For the same reason that you would consider it murder rather than "facilitating passage into the next stage of existence" if I deliberately ran over someone with my car. I believe that the next stage of existence is oblivion, and when we kill someone, we are depriving them of everything. The laws regarding murder (and capital punishment) in most countries are written as though this is in fact the case.

 

If death is just the realization of our eternal reward, then it makes no difference to the person who dies whether they are killed by my automobile or God's tsunami. Death is an illusion, and life isn't nearly as precious as is commonly thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×