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Basayev Martyred

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Sure, the man caused the death of over 100 school children, but he was a Muslim fighting oppression so we should pray for him and make excuses, right?

 

Or maybe we should make excuses for his planning of taking over 100 schoolchildren hostage. He was really a nice guy and meant no harm. He couldn't have known that doing so would bring any harm to them. His followers were actually there to protect the children, right?

 

It seems the thought process of some people on this thread is that the ends justifies the means.

 

If you are Muslim that is.

HA? you just made a false accusation on me dint you!? i am a muslim.

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HA? you just made a false accusation on me dint you!? i am a muslim.

 

Did you see your name in this post?

 

Did you see anywhere in my post where I said all Muslims? Or even where I said a majority of Muslims?

 

Or maybe you were having difficulty understanding the last line of my post. If so, let me explain.

 

It seems that some people believe the ends justifies the means for people that are Muslim. Or, in other words, some people think it is acceptable to cause the death of children as long as it is a Muslim commiting the act or they claim they are doing it for Islam.

Edited by Livius

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:D

 

 

 

Just another simple comment regarding Basayev. Our Prophet (s.) was leading a often desperate struggle against the Pagans of Makkah. Did he take their children or women (don't forget the hospital thing at Budjonnovsk) hostage in order to blackmail their leadership?

 

The simple answer is NO.

 

 

Ma'a Salama

 

 

nasiruddin

Edited by nasiruddin

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:D

Just another simple comment regarding Basayev. Our Prophet (s.) was leading a often desperate struggle against the Pagans of Makkah. Did he take their children or women (don't forget the hospital thing at Budjonnovsk) hostage in order to blackmail their leadership.

 

The simple answer is NO.

Ma'a Salama

nasiruddin

I agree.

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Did you see your name in this post?

 

Did you see anywhere in my post where I said all Muslims? Or even where I said a majority of Muslims?

 

Or maybe you were having difficulty understanding the last line of my post. If so, let me explain.

 

It seems that some people believe the ends justifies the means for people that are Muslim. Or, in other words, some people think it is acceptable to cause the death of children as long as it is a Muslim commiting the act or they claim they are doing it for Islam.

 

It seems the thought process of some people on this thread is that the ends justifies the means.

 

If you are Muslim that is.

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they've been refuted in this thread as well as basayev's. stop spamming the place. i can't be bothered to answer your points again

 

 

Spamming ? Nobodys spamming , I'm disagreeing with the adulation Basayev seems to be getting .

You dont lik it ....fine , dont go makng up phrases and accusations ,who cares if you answer anything or not ?

maybe somehere need to just investigate a bit and see what the Russian people themselves think of what happened ....what the survivors say happened and how they feel .

All I hear is all this croc about the terrorists themselves and how they are misunderstood ....and how they didn't kill the kids , the Russians did .

 

And that's the problem ....people dont want to hear .....just make sad and sorry excuses , for an act of absolute abomination.

 

Where do you get "spamming"from ?

 

You dont know what you're talking about . Better open your eyes and see what the results of that act really are ....you have no idea .

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they've been refuted in this thread as well as basayev's. stop spamming the place. i can't be bothered to answer your points again

 

I agree bro :D Just ignore these people - theyre just looking for attention.

 

 

Did you see your name in this post?

 

Did you see anywhere in my post where I said all Muslims? Or even where I said a majority of Muslims?

 

Or maybe you were having difficulty understanding the last line of my post. If so, let me explain.

 

It seems that some people believe the ends justifies the means for people that are Muslim. Or, in other words, some people think it is acceptable to cause the death of children as long as it is a Muslim commiting the act or they claim they are doing it for Islam.

 

 

Why do you not read other peoples posts before replying.

 

You dont have to agree with Beslan to support Basayev.

 

Basayev himself said he would go on trial for Beslan so he admitted himself it was a big mistake.

 

He had a lot of responsibility on him and he had stopped the genocide of the Chechen people before - he still was very much a hero in the North Caucaus.

 

As i say its very easy for people like you and Nasarudin to sit in your homes condemning other people who are trying to stop the murder of their people , while you do nothing for them. Words are easy.

 

He crossed the line in Beslan and admitted his mistake - if Bush , Putin etc. could do the same we'd have a little more justice in the world.

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I agree bro :D Just ignore these people - theyre just looking for attention.

Why do you not read other peoples posts before replying.

 

You dont have to agree with Beslan to support Basayev.

 

Basayev himself said he would go on trial for Beslan so he admitted himself it was a big mistake.

 

He had a lot of responsibility on him and he had stopped the genocide of the Chechen people before - he still was very much a hero in the North Caucaus.

 

As i say its very easy for people like you and Nasarudin to sit in your homes condemning other people who are trying to stop the murder of their people , while you do nothing for them. Words are easy.

 

He crossed the line in Beslan and admitted his mistake - if Bush , Putin etc. could do the same we'd have a little more justice in the world.

 

Basayev said :

 

"Mr Basayev says he told Mr Maskhadov that he is “ready to stand before a sharia court, and answer to it in all its severity if it judges I should be punishedâ€. He says that such a trial is not possible until the Chechen war ends. He is willing to call a ceasefire and open negotiations with the Russians, but only after the complete withdrawal of Russian forces from Chechnya. "

 

He knew the Russians would not withdraw and the war would not end right away, so he could afford such a comment..

 

He also said :

 

"Mr Basayev states: “We are planning more Beslan-type operations in the future because we are forced to do so.â€

 

So he intended to do it again.

 

Regards

 

Bowman

 

source : (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1468129,00.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1468129,00.html[/url]

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"Mr Basayev states: “We are planning more Beslan-type operations in the future because we are forced to do so.â€

 

It was after him saying that he would take hostages again - which was more likely just an empty threat rather than a concrete statement that he would do something. He had enough of a political mind to know that what happened at Beslan had been politically damaging - that he was bought back into the Chechen political scene. Once he was a member he had to obey all commands from the military Shura and his Ameer. That was one of the reason for why President Sadullayev called him back in - to utilise his military skills and to make him use his skills in Russian military rather than the Russian people.

At the time of Beslan he was not part of the Chechen government and therefore no-one had any control over his actions. After he came back into the Chechen government all his actions speak for themselves , all his operations were against the Russian military and there were no attacks inside of Russia

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It was after him saying that he would take hostages again - which was more likely just an empty threat rather than a concrete statement that he would do something. He had enough of a political mind to know that what happened at Beslan had been politically damaging - that he was bought back into the Chechen political scene. Once he was a member he had to obey all commands from the military Shura and his Ameer. That was one of the reason for why President Sadullayev called him back in - to utilise his military skills and to make him use his skills in Russian military rather than the Russian people.

At the time of Beslan he was not part of the Chechen government and therefore no-one had any control over his actions. After he came back into the Chechen government all his actions speak for themselves , all his operations were against the Russian military and there were no attacks inside of Russia

 

Can we agree then that:

 

"Mr Basayev says he told Mr Maskhadov that he is “ready to stand before a sharia court, and answer to it in all its severity if it judges I should be punishedâ€. He says that such a trial is not possible until the Chechen war ends. He is willing to call a ceasefire and open negotiations with the Russians, but only after the complete withdrawal of Russian forces from Chechnya. "

 

might also be an empty statement then?

 

Regards

 

Bowman

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Can we agree then that:

 

"Mr Basayev says he told Mr Maskhadov that he is “ready to stand before a sharia court, and answer to it in all its severity if it judges I should be punishedâ€. He says that such a trial is not possible until the Chechen war ends. He is willing to call a ceasefire and open negotiations with the Russians, but only after the complete withdrawal of Russian forces from Chechnya. "

 

might also be an empty statement then?

 

Well maybe you would have been able to make that assumption had Shamil not re-entered the Chechen government.

Once he did , he like all other commanders are on the orders of the military shura and the Ameer and so he knew entering the government would make it a certainty that he would have to face trial.

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Well maybe you would have been able to make that assumption had Shamil not re-entered the Chechen government.

Once he did , he like all other commanders are on the orders of the military shura and the Ameer and so he knew entering the government would make it a certainty that he would have to face trial.

 

Well, we will never know now. Too bad the Russians did not capture him alive. I think a trial would have been good for the people of Beslan.

 

Regards

 

Bowman

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Well, we will never know now. Too bad the Russians did not capture him alive. I think a trial would have been good for the people of Beslan.

 

Also its too bad that the Chechen Mujahideen have not yet captured Vladmir Putin who is responsible for the death of over a hundred thousand civlians.

I think a trial would have been good for the people of Chechnya.

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:D dear muslims

 

Not saying Whether i am or am not a supporter of Basayev, since i have not really Educated myself on his views.

 

But i admire his Basic Principle, to fight against the Russian Brutality.

 

Funny thing is, Im sure the Russians were frowned upon till 2001/2002.

 

Have they already forgotten the killings?

 

i do agree with the post above

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Shamil Basayev is alegedlly dead.

 

:D

 

And say not of those who are slain in the path of Allah that they are dead; Nay, (they are) living, but ye perceive not. (2:154)

 

Reckon not those who are slain in the way of Allah, to be dead; Nay! alive they are with their Lord being sustained. (3:169)

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Guest amani

:D

 

 

And say not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah, "They are dead." Nay, they are living, but you perceive (it) not

2:154

 

think not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive, with their Lord, and they have provision.

3:169

 

may Allah :D forgive him and have mercy on him

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Basayev was not martyred , since he was no martyr .

He was an intentional murderer of children , by plan and design .

 

To call him a martyr indicates religious connotations . Martyrs die for their faith , and without taking innocent life in the process . Ghandi was a martyr , St.Paul was a martyr , Isha was a martyr .

 

Basayev was a murderer .

 

You call him what you want ....he was no martyr .

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Also its too bad that the Chechen Mujahideen have not yet captured Vladmir Putin who is responsible for the death of over a hundred thousand civlians.

I think a trial would have been good for the people of Chechnya.

I love how they never comment on such statements! they just go *poof*

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Has anyone here called Putin a hero or defended him as one?

 

No, but people are calling this child murderer (Basayev) a hero.

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you got to do what you got to do to survive

hero or no he was fighting for his ppl

and he is a hero to them

salaam

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arawelo16,

 

Do you think a good Muslim takes a school full of children hostage?

 

When a Muslim does take a school full of children hostage should other Muslims condemn him, or should they make excuses and call him a martyr?

 

Which course of action do you think is better for the Ummah? Condemning Muslims who plan such things or quietly condoning it? Is Islam the religion of peace or is Basayev a hero? You cannot have it both ways.

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When Khalid (ra) killed innocents , the Prophet (saw) said " i am free from what Khalid did".

 

He did not say "I am free of Khalid" so basically the Prophet (saw) distanced himself from his actions but not the person and did not remove him from his position.

 

So Muslims can support Shamil without supporting Beslan ESPECIALLY as since Beslan Shamil has said he is willing to pay for his actions and go on trial. So he admits his mistake.

 

As far as Basayev himself goes - sis arawelo16 is right - he is a hero in the North Caucaus as he has fought against Russian rule and led his people to victory before.

 

Even some Americans used to love him before 9-11.

 

I read an article about him from the American military where Shamil Basayev was compared to William Wallace and was presented as a hero for his military actions.

Edited by Barayev

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:D

 

One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Do you people remember the war of indipendence for the USA?

To the British the rebals were terrorists and to the Americans they were freedom fighters, even though the rebels murdered, pillaged and raped innocent people.

 

If you consider Shamil Basayev to be a terrorist, then you should also consider the founding fathers of America to be terrorists as well, becuse they had the similar goals and use similar tactics.

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arawelo16,

 

Do you think a good Muslim takes a school full of children hostage?

 

When a Muslim does take a school full of children hostage should other Muslims condemn him, or should they make excuses and call him a martyr?

 

Which course of action do you think is better for the Ummah? Condemning Muslims who plan such things or quietly condoning it? Is Islam the religion of peace or is Basayev a hero? You cannot have it both ways.

livius i do not support his actions nor do i condemn them

i could honestly careless if he was a muslim jew or hindu

like i said before you got to do what you got to do to survive

he cannot do what the russians are doing he does'nt have their technology so he's got to get his point across another way whatever works

and like omar786 said One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

he's a hero to the chechnian ppl

i did not say basayev was a hero and none of us here can be a 100% sure if he was a hero or a villain

"..... ."You can't ever reach a man if you don't speak his language. If a man speaks the language of brute force, you can't come to him with peace"Malcolm X/Feb 14,1965

livius what do you think would be the best course of action for the chechnian ppl? i'm asking u this honestly

salaam

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livius i do not support his actions nor do i condemn them....

 

 

We already know that . And you have said absolutely NOTHING in the way of a condemnation ....therefore in essence, you support it , for right after you made your "non-committal " remark , you went right into the excuse making routine .

 

What a lumpa coal !

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