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Pete

My Biggest Struggle Of Faith

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Do not lock or close this topic to try and stiffle the confrontation. It will only make my faith waver even more, and at this point I can not afford that. I myself am not a homosexual, but I the following things have really tested my faith in the last months.

 

 

Of all the religions/religous people I have spoken too, there is not a single group more intolerant to homosexuals than the members of this forum. It seems as though most Muslims turn a blind eye to the scientific evidence that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that homosexuality is genetic, and by no means similar to other form of sexual perversion.

 

SOME THINGS TO CONSIDER:

 

Point one: Canadian psychologist Anthony Bogart studied the structure of more than 900 gay and straight men and found a remarkable correlation between the number of males in a family and their sexual orientation. The more boys there are in a biological family, the more likely it is that the youngest will be gay. The chances of a boy being gay, the study found, increased by a third for each older brother he had. Researches say the explanation could lie in changes taking place in the mother's womb with each subsequent male birth. An evolutionary mechanism may be at work that encourages an equal mix of male and female children. According to this theory, when a woman gives birth, she produces antibodies that fight off future male embryos. If a male child is conceived anyways, those antibodies may alter hormonal patterns, resulting in homosexuality. "Right now, it's the only plausible mechanism we can think of," neuroscientist Marc Breedlove tell the Los Angeles Times. Even though that conclusion is speculative, researchers say the study adds to the growing evidence that homosexuality is biologically based, and not primarily a product of a child's emotional environment or a lifestyle "choice."

 

Point Two: Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture.

 

 

Point two: Fruit flies are among the most sexually proficient creatures on earth. Their ability to produce a new generation in two weeks has made them the darlings of genetics researchers for nearly a century. Put a male fruit fly into a bottle with a female, and he doesn't waste any time before getting down to business. So it's a bit bewildering to watch the behavior of certain fruit flies at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. There, in the laboratories of biologists Ward Odenwald and Shang-Ding Zhang, strange things are happening inside the gallon-size culture jars. In some experiments, the female flies are cowering in groups at the top and bottom of the jars. The males, meanwhile, are having a party--no, an orgy -- among themselves. With a frenzy usually reserved for chasing females, the males link up end-to-end in big circles or in long, winding rows that look like winged conga lines. As the buzz of the characteristic fruit fly "love song" fills the air, the males repeatedly lurch forward and rub genitals with the next ones in line. What's going on? Without a wink or a chuckle, Odenwald claims that these male fruit flies are gay -- and that he and Zhang made them that way. The scientists say they transplanted a single gene into the flies that caused them to display homosexual behavior. And that's very interesting, they assert, because a related gene exists in human beings, although there is no evidence yet that the human gene has an effect on sexual preference. A report of Odenwald and Zhang's findings, to be published this week in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, adds to the mounting evidence that homosexuality has genetic origins, and is sure to produce new fireworks in the contentious debate over what it means to be gay. The two scientists are not foolhardy enough to claim that a single gene can make a person homosexual. But they think their studies may yield important new insights into how genetic makeup, through a complex series of biochemical reactions, influences sexual orientation. Such work stirs mixed emotions in the gay community. To some extent, gays and lesbians welcome the research because it supports what most of them have long felt: that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, like skin color

 

But it is shocking to me that NO ONE adresses these, I mean REALLY adresses these. They say that they are "lies" and leave it at that. It makes me sick. According to the ILGA there are at least seven countries today which still retain capital punishment for homosexuality: Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. The situation with regard to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is unclear. There are international Muslim gay rights groups, but they are widely detested within Muslim countries, and opposed and campaigned against by Muslim groups in Western countries.

 

Point four: The Muslim logic on this issue is inconsistent and illogical. Muslims say states that all homosexuality is a moral evil, a corruption. Yet Islam also holds that the animals of the world have submitted themselves completely to Allah. Yet, in nearly all animal species we witness homosexual behavior. This must mean that it is permissible by Allah to be gay, and that animals who have submitted completely to Allah can therefore also be gay. Islamic tradition is wrong to condemn homosexuality as an evil, and in denying that homosexuality is natural they are ignoring the facts of the world, it is an ignorant religious belief equal to that of the Christians during the Dark Ages: Where truth is suppressed because it threatens tradition and the corrupt powers of organized religious leaders.

 

If those who submit to Allah are sincere, they must recognize Allah's will: And such a will creates homosexuality, including homosexual people and homosexual animals, and it is not therefore the Muslims' prerogative to question this or condemn it.

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PropellerAds

:D

What animals do or donot do are not and shouldnot be a concern for human beings ....animals exhibit behaviour like killing their mates after intercourse ...which doesnt mean humans should emulate them and stoop to their level when we have been blessed with intelligence.Animals have no intelligence ,they have no real purpose in life

 

Iam not biologist,my field has not even remote connection to life sciences ...but the research above is very speculative...how can u put ur faith blindly when u cant check urself what the reality of these researches are ...do u think these people are very sincere in thei research and have no agenda ?

 

In any case what do u have to say abt the facts about the people of prophet lot ...they were the first to indulge in it and they were destroyed for it ..do u believe a people would be destroyed for something that was they were created upon.

 

Muslims say states that all homosexuality is a moral evil, a corruption.

The all implication is understood to be for human beings ...we dont really care what animals do since they are not the best examples to be emulated

 

This must mean that it is permissible by Allah to be gay, and that animals who have submitted completely to Allah can therefore also be gay. Islamic tradition is wrong to condemn homosexuality as an evil, and in denying that homosexuality is natural they are ignoring the facts of the world, it is an ignorant religious belief equal to that of the Christians during the Dark Ages: Where truth is suppressed because it threatens tradition and the corrupt powers of organized religious leaders.

Subahanallah..comparing Islam to christianity ?

Its as much permissible to be a homosexual as much it is permissible to be a criminal .....may be we are ignorant ...but this life is not all there is to humans ,u and i are going to die no doubt ..we will be judged according to our deeds and beliefs then we will see who are truly ignorant and who are the ones mocked

 

Here's an article from Dr.Bilal Philips

Islam's Position on Homosexuality PDF Print E-mail

Written by Dr. Bilal Philips

Homosexuality and lesbianism have been dubbed “alternative life-stylesâ€, “personal preferenceâ€, “a natural variationâ€, etc. in the West today. Where homosexuality was considered an illness by the Association of Psychiatrists, it is now removed from the list and replaced by homophobia (the dislike of homosexuals and homosexuality).

 

 

 

Consequently, Islam and Muslims are considered intolerant and biased due to their continued opposition. Arguments in favor of tolerance to homosexuals are based on the assumption that homosexual behavior is biologically based and not merely learned from society.

 

1.

 

Early opposition to homosexuality was based on the argument that such behavior was unnatural. Sodomy cannot produce children which is one of the main natural consequences of sexual relations. “Mother Nature†did not make us that way, it was argued. To counter such arguments homosexual researchers scoured the earth until they found supposed homosexual behavior among the animal kingdom. They found that the males of some species of exotic fishes off the coast of Japan imitated the behavior of females of the species in order to prevent other males from impregnating their mates, and some rare butterflies from islands of the coast of Africa also had males exhibiting female behavior during mating season, etc. However, if the animal kingdom is to be used to justify human behavior, there also exists a spider in South America, whose female is much larger than the male. When mating is complete, the female eats her mate.

2.

 

During the 80’s it was claimed that a gland in the base of the brain which is small in women and large in men was found to be small among homosexuals. However, this evidence, while seeming incontrovertible to the layman, was immediately refuted by scientists. The data was taken from cross-sections of the brains of dead adult humans whose sexual preference was identified prior to death. Consequently, the reduced size among homosexuals could have been a result of the practice and not its cause. That is, they could have been born with normal sized glands which then became small due to their deviant lifestyle.

3.

 

Recently genetics has become the most commonly used foundation for the pro-gay argument. In 1993 Dr. Dean Hamer, a researcher at the National Cancer Institute, claimed to have discovered “the first concrete evidence that ‘gay genes’ really do exist.†Homosexual orientation was supposedly transmitted to males on the X chromosome from the mother. Hamer’s findings, published in the prestigious journal Science, transformed his colorless career as a government scientist into a dynamic media personality and penned his memoirs. He gave expert testimony to the Colorado Supreme Court that formed the basis of the victorious decision striking down anti-gay Proposition 2. However, a replication of his study at the University of Western Ontario failed to find any linkage whatsoever between the X chromosome and sexual orientation. It was also found that Hamer’s study lacked a control group; a fundamental principle of scientific research. Furthermore, in June 1994, the Chicago Tribune reported that a junior researcher in Hamer’s laboratory who assisted in the gene mapping in the homosexuality study, alleged that he selectively reported his data. She was then summarily dismissed from her post-doctoral fellowship in Hamer’s lab. But a National Institutes of Health investigation substantiated her claims and gave her another position in a different lab. Though Dr. Hamer was coy about his own sexuality in his memoirs, he later admitted in his lectures that he was gay.

4.

 

It should be noted that Islam, in its final form, did not introduce anti-gay legislature to the world. The texts of the Torah are replete with clear condemnation of such practices.

5.

 

The consequence of AIDS is enough to prove that homosexuality is evil and dangerous to society. The early spread of AIDS was concentrated among the homosexual community. It later spread to the heterosexual community through blood transfusions and intravenous drug usage and so-called bisexuals. And continues on a rampage among promiscuous heterosexuals.

6.

 

Islam considers homosexuality to be the result of a choice. It is inconceivable that God made people homosexuals then declared it a crime and prescribed punishments for it in both this life and the next. To accept such a proposition is to accept that God is unjust. Inclinations can exist within humans for a variety of natural and unnatural acts, from fornication to rape and from necrophilia to bestiality. These inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions, media influence, or even from human whisperings or direct contact. Human beings are not like robots who only do what they are programmed to do. Humans choose and God holds them responsible for their choices. Were homosexuality a product of genetic destiny, it would be unfair for God to criminalize it and punish those who practice it. Currently, some scientists are even claiming that murder is of genetic origin. To accept that would mean to excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

7.

 

Islam instructs parents to separate their children in their beds by the age of ten in order to avoid sexual experiences which may result from childhood experimentation. Such experiences may be reinforced by contacts in schools and through abuse from adults. Also the distinctions between male and female are strongly made in Islamic teachings. The Prophet cursed men who imitated women and women who imitated men. The Western fashion industry is controlled by homosexuals who attempt to blur the distinction between males and females in order to make their behavior more acceptable. Consequently, men’s fashion has become more feminine in style and color and women are now wearing three-piece suits, ties and hats and traditionally men’s shoes. These distinctions may be relative and vary from society to society. For example, in Scotland men traditionally wear little knee-length dresses called “kiltsâ€. In Scotland it would not be considered imitation of females, but in a society where only women wear such dress it would be considered imitation.

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Hello,

 

I hope you are doing okey.

 

Pete, allow me to surprise you:

 

In 2002, the Nuffield Council on Bioethics produced a report into the possible link between genes and behaviour, which included sexual orientation.

 

It concluded: "There are numerous problems with genetic and other biological research into sexual orientation which mean that any reported findings must be viewed with caution."

 

It said many of the genetic studies were too small to draw definite conclusions from.

 

Alan Wardle from the gay rights charity Stonewall said: "This is an interesting debate and there may well be a genetic element, but it's not conclusive.

 

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm[/url]

 

i think that it should be the end of conversation.

 

Point four: The Muslim logic on this issue is inconsistent and illogical. Muslims say states that all homosexuality is a moral evil, a corruption. Yet Islam also holds that the animals of the world have submitted themselves completely to Allah. Yet, in nearly all animal species we witness homosexual behavior. This must mean that it is permissible by Allah to be gay, and that animals who have submitted completely to Allah can therefore also be gay. Islamic tradition is wrong to condemn homosexuality as an evil, and in denying that homosexuality is natural they are ignoring the facts of the world, it is an ignorant religious belief equal to that of the Christians during the Dark Ages: Where truth is suppressed because it threatens tradition and the corrupt powers of organized religious leaders.

 

If those who submit to Allah are sincere, they must recognize Allah's will: And such a will creates homosexuality, including homosexual people and homosexual animals, and it is not therefore the Muslims' prerogative to question this or condemn it.

 

Before you make bold claims like that please make sure that you have enough evidence to back it. Lets look at your claim.

 

You said

 

Allah (S.T) says that all animals submitted themselves completely to Him

Therefore,

They should not commit homosexual behavior.

 

In order to make that conclusion we have to know that homosexual behavior is prohibited by Allah in animals. However, no such thing exist. So your statement is inconsistent and illogical… Also, Allah his sent his laws for humans not for animals. Maybe, that’s why animals don’t have the power to speak and carry out complex rules that humans can follow…

 

regards.

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Salaams

they were the first to indulge in it and they were destroyed for it

Lut is bound to get pulled into every homosexual discussion..but here is my problem with Lut. These people weren't perfect Angels who practiced homosexuality, They were Gamblers, Robbers and at the pinnacle of corruption, how do we know if homosexuality was the sole cause of their destruction?

How does it make sense that a Merciful God would let people who do the #1 crime,Shirk live ......yet destroy the homos?

I can't disagree with the fact that genetic/nueral science is not yet able to prove that homosexuality is purely genetic.. Still, Research/all the facts/finding point to a strong genetic correlation. Theology assumes that Homosexuality is definitely not Genetic...despite the fact that the concept of gene mutation is a proven factor....Hermaphros' are a prime example of this imperfect world with more then two genders.. Despite the contraversy, the prescribed consequences for homosexuality are extreme.

And I'm not trying to contradict Islamic teaching..but only to try to understand the logic behind them..So I am well aware of factors such as...my own limited mind, Satan's tricks, blindness veils, God's test etc.....So if there is any logic that can be transmitted to me outside these restriction..I will appreciate it.

Peace

Edited by llogical

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Lut is bound to get pulled into every homosexual discussion..but here is my problem with Lut. These people weren't perfect Angels who practiced homosexuality, They were Gamblers, Robbers and at the pinnacle of corruption, how do we know if homosexuality was the sole cause of their destruction?

How does it make sense that a Merciful God would let people who do the #1 crime,Shirk live ......yet destroy the homos?

No ppl after the prophet Muhammed saws will be destroyed as a whole for their crime even if its shirk( iam pretty sure about this but i will confirm this from someone knowledgable!).Nobody said homosexuality was the sole cause..its one of the major causes .Allah is not only the Most merciful to those who turn to him in repentance ,hes also the most severe in punishment to those who are rebellious

 

Research/all the facts/finding point to a strong genetic correlation.

Iam almost sure u are just parroting the words of some scientist...research these days espeically in controversial fields as this are very biased for various reasons and i wouldnt trust them one bit .just read the first two replies in this thread

 

the prescribed consequences for homosexuality are extreme.

Thats just ur opinion...Islam is moderate no matter what u chose to believe ..Islam may seem extreme in the times where people are lax about almost everything..

 

but only to try to understand the logic behind them.

 

If lewdness exists among people and then appears as a common and open practice, plagues and new diseases which did not exist before will spread among them. [ibn Maajah, Al-Hakim]

Edited by al-malabari

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Nobody said homosexuality was the sole cause..its one of the major causes.

If it's not the sole cause then why portray it as that?

To say that Lut was destroyed becaz of homosexuality then would be half truth...half assumption. :D

Allah is not only the Most merciful to those who turn to him in repentance ,hes also the most severe in punishment to those who are rebellious

Interesting bcaz I personally thought that Allah likes rebellious people..thanks for sharing valuable knowledge. :D

I am almost sure u are just parroting the words of some scientist...research these days espeically in controversial fields as this are very biased for various reasons and i wouldnt trust them one bit.

Parroting?..like who? :D can you name him/her?.. :D because otherwsie it would just be an imprudent assumption.

Also, I think I understand what you mean by not trusting research these days...I mean it's not like back in the days when they had state of the art equipment and technigues to gather/analyze data. etc.

BEsides, Like you said, ALL these studies MUST be biased bcaz every one is out to justify homosexuality.Unless ofcourse they support homosexuality as being a mental disease, because those guys are correct and not biased :D

If lewdness exists among people and then appears as a common and open practice, plagues and new diseases which did not exist before will spread among them. [ibn Maajah, Al-Hakim]

I guess that explains the cause of all illness..Lewdness. :D..virus/bacterias must be hoaxes created by Satan and trnasgressers...Except for when good people get sick..bcaz that's just a test.

See we are making a progress...while staying glued to the subject.

Thanks to you :D

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If it's not the sole cause then why portray it as that?

To say that Lut was destroyed becaz of homosexuality then would be half truth...half assumption.

Because they were the first to indulge in that ...and that is one of the main reasons for their destruction and its a major sin.

 

And they indeed sought to shame his guest (by asking to commit sodomy with them). So We blinded their eyes, "Then taste you My Torment and My Warnings."And there came upon them by morning an abiding punishment.[54:37-38]

 

 

Parroting?..like who? blink.gif can you name him/her?.. unsure.gif because otherwsie it would just be an imprudent assumption. ...

.I mean it's not like back in the days when they had state of the art equipment and technigues to gather/analyze data. etc.

Iam pretty sure that u are not a biologist from our conversations so far ...so u are just blind following what someone said somewhere ...because u have not verified the research nor could you even if u wanted to .

 

State of the art equipment ..doesnt mean truth or objectivity in research ...it could mean the vice versa since the research is harder to replicate with out those specialised equioement .Did u hear about the recent hoax of a south korean stem stell search ..google for "south korean hoax stem cell "..this is not the first one ..there have been many many

From my first post

Recently genetics has become the most commonly used foundation for the pro-gay argument. In 1993 Dr. Dean Hamer, a researcher at the National Cancer Institute, claimed to have discovered "the first concrete evidence that 'gay genes' really do exist." Homosexual orientation was supposedly transmitted to males on the X chromosome from the mother. Hamer's findings, published in the prestigious journal Science, transformed his colorless career as a government scientist into a dynamic media personality and penned his memoirs. He gave expert testimony to the Colorado Supreme Court that formed the basis of the victorious decision striking down anti-gay Proposition 2. However, a replication of his study at the University of Western Ontario failed to find any linkage whatsoever between the X chromosome and sexual orientation. It was also found that Hamer's study lacked a control group; a fundamental principle of scientific research. Furthermore, in June 1994, the Chicago Tribune reported that a junior researcher in Hamer's laboratory who assisted in the gene mapping in the homosexuality study, alleged that he selectively reported his data. She was then summarily dismissed from her post-doctoral fellowship in Hamer's lab. But a National Institutes of Health investigation substantiated her claims and gave her another position in a different lab. Though Dr. Hamer was coy about his own sexuality in his memoirs, he later admitted in his lectures that he was gay.

 

 

BEsides, Like you said, ALL these studies MUST be biased bcaz every one is out to justify homosexuality.Unless ofcourse they support homosexuality as being a mental disease, because those guys are correct and not biased

You can think what u like.My position on homosexuality is not based on scientific research .Why do u trust the current scientific methodology to be perfect and with out faults ,this is the root of the problem.You have taken science as something to which u are submitted to almost blindly as if scientists are always right in what they say .

 

Yes I do strongly believe that many researches haven a sinister agenda behind their reseach and for many of them it is to attack Islam and its position on homosexuality because Muslims remain the only religion majority of whose adherents have not accepted homosexuality as an "alternate life style" and what not ....

 

I guess that explains the cause of all illness..Lewdness. thumbsup.gif..virus/bacterias must be hoaxes created by Satan and trnasgressers...Except for when good people get sick..bcaz that's just a test.

See we are making a progress...while staying glued to the subject.

Thanks to you

It specifially mentioned "new diseases"not common illness ...please read and reflect before u reply

Lewdness here means homosexuality,bestiality and other forms of sexual perversions

Tell me what except lewdness spreads AIDS,herpes and the like .

Virus/bacteria are just the means of the disease spreading ,they are not the root cause ....yes there is nothing in life that is absolutely bad for a muslim ...

 

, "The case of a believer is amazing! Every affair of his is good for him, and this is not for anyone except a believer: if he experiences something pleasant, he is grateful to Allah and that is good for him; and if he comes across some adversity, he is patiently persevering (i.e. has sabr) and that too is good for him!" [Muslim]

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:D

 

Even if you dont believe in Allah and believe in Evolution and Natural Selection, even these things go AGAINST homosexuality.

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:D

 

Even if you dont believe in Allah and believe in Evolution and Natural Selection, even these things go AGAINST homosexuality.

 

 

assalamu'alaikum

 

haha.... well sed akhi!!

 

:D

 

wasalamualaikum

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I guess that explains the cause of all illness..Lewdness. :D..virus/bacterias must be hoaxes created by Satan and trnasgressers...Except for when good people get sick..bcaz that's just a test.

See we are making a progress...while staying glued to the subject.

Thanks to you :D

 

:D

 

You can get AIDS and HERPIES from straight sex, as well. You can also get diseases from drinking water, food, talking to someone who is sick, touching something someone sneezed on, etc. My friends Uncle died from AIDs because of a blood-transfusion. It had nothing to do with sex of any kind. You can assume that perhaps its a punishment, but they why do some countries execute homosexuals? If homosexuality IS a sin, than I would still see killing people who disagree with you.

 

And they indeed sought to shame his guest (by asking to commit sodomy with them). So We blinded their eyes, "Then taste you My Torment and My Warnings."And there came upon them by morning an abiding punishment.[54:37-38]

 

From what I have read about the story of Lut, I tend to agree with illogical. Could this "shame" of sodomy be rape? After all, homosexual rape happens in prisons, and its sole purpose is to shame the person.

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And they indeed sought to shame his guest (by asking to commit sodomy with them). So We blinded their eyes, "Then taste you My Torment and My Warnings."And there came upon them by morning an abiding punishment.[/b][54:37-38]

Again...it's Interesting how one key verse sums up everything about Lut.

Convincing? Maybe not....Creative? No denying :D

Bcaz the words interjected in parenthesis are not mentioned in three reputable translations below

 

YUSUFALI: And they even sought to snatch away his guests from him, but We blinded their eyes. (They heard:) "Now taste ye My Wrath and My Warning."

PICKTHAL: They even asked of him his guests for an ill purpose. Then We blinded their eyes (and said): Taste now My punishment after My warnings!

SHAKIR: And certainly they endeavored to turn him from his guests, but We blinded their eyes; so taste My chastisement and My warning.

 

Then again, these guys have nothing on you...You are the ultimate Scholar :D

I am pretty sure that u are not a biologist from our conversations so far ...so u are just blind following what someone said somewhere ...because u have not verified the research nor could you even if u wanted to.

Sorry, I forgot you are the only "Biologist here" :D..I know.. I'm just a lament..and appearantly incompetent..right?........and here i thought you had no sense of humor

(btw..research biologists study wild life..Darwinstein :D)

About following blindly... Can you prove (using empirical evidence) that homosexuality is NOT genetics? Becaz if not then whip out them black shades/ the white stick and join the crew :D

Here is why...

Homosexuality is either genetic or not genetic....two possibilities only for sake of certainty.

I NEVER said that it's definitely genetic...rather I said that currently Evidence is Lacking/incomplete to say that for sure.

Still, the collective/incomplete evidence suggests that there is a STRONG GENETIC COMPONENT. Because a Gay male's anatomy doesn't respond to female(s') stimuli...So if a gay man is not able to do what a straight man can do.... Hope u get the big picture..

How I know?...

1.Speaking to homos

2.Essays in parapsychology/anthropology/evolution science...etc

3.Objective Analysis of facts ( or best attempt atleast :D)

Now If you say that IT IS DEFINITELY NOT GENETIC..then let's see the proof/conclusive evidence??? :D

State of the art equipment ..doesnt mean truth or objectivity in research ...it could mean the vice versa since the research is harder to replicate with out those specialised equioement.

Wow :D bcaz of this comment, your stock just took a nose dive. :D

Yes I do strongly believe that many researches haven a sinister agenda behind their reseach and for many of them it is to attack Islam

These guys must be cyical and paranoid...They must be stopped at once(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nearlygood(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]wallbash.gif[/url]

Edited by llogical

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:D

 

Even if you dont believe in Allah and believe in Evolution and Natural Selection, even these things go AGAINST homosexuality.

(www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.nearlygood(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]lolabove.gif[/url]....Good one (sorry If you were being serious though :D )

Peace

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AssallamuAllaikum,

 

My Brother, the question of homosexuality is not one of our tolerance or intolerance, in my opinion. Allah (swt) has ordained that homosexuality is a sin, no question to answer there. If we start to ask what we think should be tolerated or what should be classed as sinful we may as well ignore everything that Allah (swt) has presribed and join the vast sways of the world in the pursute of everything that is meaningless and temporary.

 

I fear that secularism and liberalism, is creeping into Islam in much the same way that it has crept into mainstream religion, aside from Islam, thus far.

 

Are we really at a stage where we question what Allah (swt) has said is fact, do we know better?

 

Regardless of the homosexual urge or need, Allah (swt) is our guide, we are all tested in many ways, in my opinion homosexuality is one of those ways.

 

Brother if we question one rule we will always question the next rule. I hope you see the problem with that.

 

With respect to all. Other religions have questioned the need to "update" the context of Gods (swt) word, to more suit the "modern lifestyle" and allowed practices that God (swt) has EXPRESSLY forbidden to be openly practised, by the people that preach "Gods" word.

 

To me part of the beauty of Islam is the clarity and simplicity of its message.

 

Wassallam.

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It would be better if u lessened ur sarcasm

Then again, these guys have nothing on you...You are the ultimate Scholar

We have talked about this before...I quote from a translation which is the summary of three classical interpretation of The Qura'n ....so yes the translation i quote is in general much more accurate than Shakir,Pickthall or Yusuf Ali

 

In any case there are other verses which deal with the subject

 

And when Our Messengers came to Lout (Lot), he was grieved on their account and felt himself straitened for them (lest the town people should approach them to commit sodomy with them). He said: "This is a distressful day."

And his people came rushing towards him, and since aforetime they used to commit crimes (sodomy, etc.), he said: "O my people! Here are my daughters (i.e. the daughters of my nation), they are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully). So fear Allah and degrade me not as regards my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?"

 

That clarifies beyond a shadow of a doubt the truth of the matter for those whose hearts and minds are not completely prejudicd.

 

then let's see the proof/conclusive evidence???

I already replied to this in the previous post .....The root of the problem again is u consider modern day scientists , science and its methodology to be the ultimate criterion on judging the truth while I don't . U have taken science to be a "taghoot"

Your only other premise is talking to homos who told u its natural ..which is what u expect them to say.

 

bcaz of this comment, your stock just took a nose dive.

I dont really understand what u mean ....are u denying that scientist donot commit frauds or hoaxes . did u bother to google "south korean stem cell hoax"

 

These guys must be cyical and paranoid...They must be stopped at once

There are many institutes and personalities which are dedicated to the "cause" like Daniel Pipes,RAND corporation, the institute(whose name i forget) which employees the lying apostate Ayan Hirsi Ali and many more .They fear Islam .

Edited by al-malabari

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lying apostate Ayan Hirsi Ali

 

How do you know if she was ever a muslim to begin with? she was just born in somalia, and forced by her parents to act like a muslim. There is no proof that Allah had actually put faith in her hearth. Being born to muslim parents doesnt necessarily make u a muslim.

 

Anyways, back on topic, homosexuality is prohibited in Islam and there is much proof of it.

 

Peace

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can i just say that scientists have researched and found some people who are born "crazy" and commit crime..

 

homosexuality cannot currently be claimed as being "a choice". if it was a choice then it would mean that we could have sex with whoever we want and still get turned on, when a straight man sees a woman, he gets turned on (if she is attractive) but if a gay man sees an attractive woman he doesnt get turned on but he will if he sees an attractive man.. so how can it be a choice, its ingrained in our genes and thats how we react. now it could be the result of the upbringing OR past/childhood events etc but its like "xyz changed me" and thats why i am doing this

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