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Jibrael

What The Old Testament Says About Israel

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:D and Peace,

 

Since we Muslims believe that parts of the Bible are in fact true, look at how eerily prophetic this is. This was taken from the book of Ezekiel:

 

"The Lord said to me, 'Mortal man, the israelites are of no use to me. They are like waste metal - copper, tin, iron, and lead - left over after silver has been refined in a furnace. So now, I, the Sovereign Lord, am telling them that they are just as useless as that. I will bring them all together in Jerusalem in the same way that the ore of silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin is put in a refining furnace. My anger and rage will melt them the way fire melts ore. Yes, I will gather them in Jerusalem, build a fire under them, and melt them with my anger. They will be melted in Jerusalem the way silver is melted in a furnace, and then they will know that they are feeling the anger of the Lord." (Ezekiel 22:17-22)

 

"The Lord spoke to me 'Mortal Man,' he said 'are you ready to judge the city that is full murderers? Make clear to her all the disgusting thing she has done. Tell the city what I, the Sovereign Lord, am saying: Because you have murdered so many of your own people and have defiled yourself by worshipping idols, your time is coming. You are guilty of those murders and are defiled by the idols you made, and so your day is coming, your time is up! That is why I have let the nations make fun of you and all the countries sneer at you. Countries nearby and countries far away sneer at you because of your lawlessness. All israel's leaders trust in their own strength and commit murder. No one in the city honors his parents. You cheat foreigners and take advantage of widows and orphans. You have no respect for the holy places, and you don't keep the Sabbath. Some of your people tell lies about others in order to have them put to death." (Ezekiel 22:1-9)

 

:D I'm not making this up! It's in the Bible, folks!

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Since we are talking about Ezechial , do not leave out he rest of the prophetic narrative , for only part of a story , ios no story at all .

 

Try reading Ezechial Chapters 37,38 , and 39.

Then you will havethe full context in which the verses you quote were said .

 

And since you claim , as a muslim you believe "parts " of the Bible , which parts will you "pick and choose " to believe ?

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Since we are talking about Ezechial , do not leave out he rest of the prophetic narrative , for only part of a story , ios no story at all .

 

Try reading Ezechial Chapters 37,38 , and 39.

Then you will havethe full context in which the verses you quote were said .

 

And since you claim , as a muslim you believe "parts " of the Bible , which parts will you "pick and choose " to believe ?

I'm not picking or choosing this one, but if you believe it, it must be in here for some reason. The Zionists keep saying that the Bible says the Jews have the right to return to Jerusalem. I've actually read the other parts of Ezekiel and it says the opposite; that the Lord is pleased with the israelites. So which one is it? It seems contradictory to me.

 

Just so you know, if a verse of the Bible is confirmed by the Qur'an or Sunnah (eg. The meek shall inherit the Earth) then it is true to us. If it is negated by the Qur'an or Sunnah (eg. Aaron was worshipping the calf :D) then it is false. If the Qur'an doesn't say anything about it (eg. Jesus [pbuh] kicks the hypocrites out of the temple) then it could be true or it could be false.

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Oh , I believe the narrative to be correct , but what you are leavin out is a common theme amongst ALL the writings of the prophet . They give TWO scenarios , the "former days " and the "latter days " , any minimal student of Old Testament Survey can tell you this .

The jews were indeed driven out of israel in former times , and a have been brought back in latter times , as the prophets speak of this .

 

So if you believe the former , do you believe the latter ?

They are inseperable .

 

But your definition of what is to be believed or not believed according to your religion , is certainly not what I would accept as a study practice with the Old Testament , which is not your book to begin with , and the fact that it predates your own book , brings that practice into further question .

 

For by that practice , you will naturally accept that which agrees, and reject that which doesnt.

 

As you have just displayed .

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This is from AMOS Chapter 9:

 

11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

 

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

 

13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

 

14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

 

15 And I will plant them upon THEIR land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of THEIR land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

 

 

Oh how silly of me? I forgot, Muslims probably don't accept this part of the bible as being correct (how convenient). Nevermind, I can give you many other such passages from Isaiah and other prophets writing similar things about israel'S GLORIOUS RESTORATION!!!

 

Well at least you Muslims accept "some" of the bible. I DON'T ACCEPT a single verse in the Quran!

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I DON'T ACCEPT a single verse in the Quran!

Nothing to be proud of ..Iam pretty sure u have no idea what u are rejecting

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LOL....Jibrael thinks he has found the words of a prophet to confirm his political view .

 

Showing in reality how little he knows of these things . Prophecy is not given for the sake of man's petty political agendas and petty biases .

They are for greater things , understood by very very few , for we all, as Paul said ..."see darkly through a glass " and understand not of things that are to come .

 

If anything is sure , it is that many misunderstand , and are ion dire error and so compound their error by fatefull actions .

 

In the end ALL will be instantly enlightened and rudely informed of their error . And many will be surprised .

 

Don't use the Jewish Bible in your diatribes against Jews Jibrael , intuitively , it's just not a wise thing to do .

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Well at least you Muslims accept "some" of the bible. I DON'T ACCEPT a single verse in the Quran!

 

Good for you! Then I suppose you can go ahead and reject the verses praising Bibi Maryam (Mary to you) and Harzrat Isa (RA) (Jesus Christ to you) and also a whole number of prophets that we share in common. So what were you expecting by posting this? A medal? Shocked indignation? All you're going to get from us is pity that one of the followers of Jesus (RA) has gone so far astray and the heartfelt hope that you may see the error of your ways in the future.

Please do take the time to analyse the reasons for your post, is this how Jesus Christ asked his followers to behave with others?

Peace unto you, even though you may wish the opposite unto us.

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Good for you! Then I suppose you can go ahead and reject the verses praising Bibi Maryam (Mary to you) and Harzrat Isa (RA) (Jesus Christ to you) and also a whole number of prophets that we share in common. So what were you expecting by posting this? A medal? Shocked indignation? All you're going to get from us is pity that one of the followers of Jesus (RA) has gone so far astray and the heartfelt hope that you may see the error of your ways in the future.

Please do take the time to analyse the reasons for your post, is this how Jesus Christ asked his followers to behave with others?

Peace unto you, even though you may wish the opposite unto us.

 

I DON'T CARE what the Koran says about "Isa" because they have defiled the image of the Lord Jesus, in the same way heretical christian sects have done. I DON'T accept that Jesus was NOT crucified on the cross as the Koran says. For me and ANY TRUE BELIEVER in the Lord Jesus, he suffered on the cross for all of us, therefore no Christian should accept the "devious" explanations used of Jesus in the Koran.

 

You Muslims live in worse blindness than the Jews who Totally reject Christ. At least they reject Jesus and end it there, without changing the TRUE WRITINGS of the Gospel as the Koran has done. Therefore, in my view Jews and Muslims are as bad as each other when it comes to receiving the word of Christ.

 

I can only leave you with a couple of most beautiful explanations from the Lord's Book in regards to receiving Jesus as taught in the Gospels NOT in the Koran:

 

"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God" (John 1:1) = The Word was made flesh, in the form of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

 

"And you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free" (John 8:32) = For You Muslims that means accepting Jesus as the Son of God and untill then you live in darkness and blindness like all the other non-believers!

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For You Muslims that means accepting Jesus as the Son of God and untill then you live in darkness and blindness like all the other non-believers!

 

LOL, well you go and have fun waiting for the rapture. Bye now and peace unto you.

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LOL...of the three great religions , each has it's own end time scenario .

 

That leads to the inevitable conclusion. that only ONE can be right , or quite possibly, that ALL THREE could be wrong .

 

One thing is for sure ....it's gonna be real interesting .

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:D/Peace To All

 

This is not a political topic.

 

This thread has been moved from "The Political Front," to "Refuting non-Muslims," on 9/3/06, by me...

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Well at least you Muslims accept "some" of the bible. I DON'T ACCEPT a single verse in the Quran!

 

So... You don't think:

 

There's only one God

 

Adam was the first human being

 

Eve was the first woman

 

Moses helped the israelites escape from Pharaoh

 

Moses parted the Red Sea

 

David slew Goliath

 

Jesus healed the lepers

 

Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus

 

Cain killed Abel

 

Noah built the Ark

 

Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed

 

 

Magister, you sound more like an atheist to me. By coming on this forum, you should be willing to talk to others, but if you're just going to condemn us and the Jews, well that's your idea. At least Atheists believe in the Big Bang and the Expanding Universe. That's two verses of the Qur'an that they believe in.

 

Personally, Judaism is closer to what the Bible teaches than present day Christianity. Pure monotheism. The Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses are probably the closest to Islam IMO. If in fact Jesus was God as you say, why does it clearly say this in Acts 2 verse 22: "Jesus of Nazarene was a man..." :D In fact Jesus (peace be upon him) calls himself the Son of Man 81 times in the Bible. He also said "I can of my own self, do nothing." But, you said he forgave your sins? He also said "Why dost thou callest me good? No one is good except for the one who is in Heaven." How can you be God if you're not even good? A clear distinction between Jesus (peace be upon him) and Allah ta'ala.

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:D and Peace,

 

Since we Muslims believe that parts of the Bible are in fact true, look at how eerily prophetic this is. This was taken from the book of Ezekiel:

:D / Peace to All

 

Brother Jibrael, I do not think it is wise to say the above statement. Yes, Muslims believe that once the older scriptures of Christianity and Judaism were true, but they are now corrupted. Which parts are true and which are not, cannot be interpreted by ordinary Muslims like us.

 

As of date, there are and have been many prominent Islamic scholars who have studied the other scriptures, but there has been no overall conscensus of which verses are true or not. So, we should still maintain our position towards the older scriptures; they should be respected by Muslims; they were once true but have been corrupted. I believe that if a Christian or Jew cites verses from their respective scriptures, we Muslims should still keep in mind that they may be corrupted, regardless if they support what the Quran says or not.

 

However brother, I agree with what I think your intention was in bringing this up. I think people should question whether the establishment of the present day state of israel is in accordance to what is written in the scriptures.

 

Isn't the prophecy of setting a convenant in the promised land a prophecy of the End Times? So, what gives the Jews the right to play the hand of God and establish the state now? Are we living in the End times?

 

Hopefully, someone who is learned in the above verses of the Old Testament can answer these questions, and what the verses were refering to...

 

:D / Peace

Edited by freedslave

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"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God" (John 1:1) = The Word was made flesh, in the form of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

 

"And you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free" (John 8:32) = For You Muslims that means accepting Jesus as the Son of God and untill then you live in darkness and blindness like all the other non-believers!

 

 

Indeed to Muslims too it is that Jesus is the word of God and the word was made flesh into man.

 

Many other prophets were referred to as the son of God before Jesus.

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This is also in the Bible.

 

1 Chronicles 21:1

Satan rose up against israel and incited David to take a census of israel.

 

Exodus 6:6

"Therefore, say to the israelites: 'I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment.

 

Exodus 7:5

And the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the israelites out of it."

 

Exodus 14:19

Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them,

 

Exodus 14:30

That day the LORD saved israel from the hands of the Egyptians, and israel saw the Egyptians lying dead on the shore.

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